This page is for Wheel of Time loony theories that, as of the end of the series, have not been confirmed or disproven. Beware of spoilers!
- Read the scene again. Aviendha's persona thinks that the OTHER three lines of the dragon have died off. Aviendha has a grand total of four kids by Rand. Three of them have descendants die childless somewhere along the line, and the fourth survives a REALLY long time. In typical Aiel fashion, she ignores any of the wetlander kids that may exist. Even the girl who was Aviendha's granddaughter met Elayne's granddaughter and they really didn't like each other. Min never enters into it.
- Okay, thanks.
If we take as a given that this is not a "possible" (but uncertain) future like the ones Wise Ones usually see, but not an unalterable future like the ones glimpsed in Foretellings, Min's viewings, and other forms of prophecy either, what else could it be? Simple: it's not the future, it's the past. It's what happened to the Aiel in the beginning of the Fourth Age the last time the Wheel turned, but not necessarily what must happen to them this time (because each turning of the Wheel is slightly different, with the differences working themselves out over thousands of years and multiple Ages).
Last time, the Aiel were conquered and driven to extinction by the Seanchan, but all that is required to happen by the Pattern is that they cease to exist as a people sometime in the Fourth Age so that they can re-emerge in the next Age of Legends. Maybe this time, they'll be peacefully absorbed by the Westlands and lose their cultural identity through thousands of years of intermarriage, or they'll take up the Way of the Leaf again and become indistinguishable from the Travelling People, or some... third... thing.
- Except that the visions explicitly follow her genetic line - the same Ages are similar, but not so much that they would both have an Aviendha who had four children by the Dragon Reborn.
- Well, while such a thing could still happen in A Memory of Light, it hasn't so far. Still, Lan did at least verbally reclaim his crown. There is also the viewing Min had of him with the seven towers and a sword in a cradle. Word of God says viewings are all of the future, not the past. Problem is, the viewing could have two interpretations: the seven towers could mean Malkier is re-established, or just what has happened already, Lan gathering the Malkieri and riding to Tarwin's Gap while calling himself king again. And the sword in the cradle could represent his child being given his sword because he's the next ruler...or because the responsibility of fighting in honor of fallen Malkier against the Shadow will be passed to him, as it was to Lan.
Basically, there's saidar (for women), saidin (for men), and the True Power (gender-neutral and Made of Evil, wielded at the Dark One's discretion). However, Rand is bizarre even for the greatest of ta'veren after descending from the Dragonmount, not just defying probability, but bringing life wherever he sets foot - creating a grove of Great Trees on the Fields of Merrilor while strolling off is just one example. It also often involves singing, and curiously, that's an ability that the Aiel of the Age of Legends had that seemed to be independent of the ability to channel: Rand doesn't recognise it as such when he experiences his ancestor's life through the ter'angreal. It seems almost exactly like the Ogier ability of Tree-Singing, which also has nothing to do with channelling, and they sang with Tree-Singers. Likewise, it also seems related to the Nym, the Swamp-Thing/Ent like beings, the last of whom appears as the Green Man. All of them can manipulate and create life. This comes at a striking contrast to the True Power, which is destructive, utterly corrosive and actively damages the Pattern, and Saidar and Saidin, which are implicitly part of the Pattern, weaving in and out and turning the Wheel of Time. So: what is it?
Answer: it's a subtle power granted by the Creator, that requires a certain mindset to tap into - the pacifistic and dutiful Age of Legends Aiel can manage it, the generally pacifistic Ogier can wield it (there's no telling if the Seanchan Ogier can, but given that they seem more detached from their roots, probably not), the life-preserving and dutiful Green Man can wield it (yes, he kills Balthamel, but given that Balthamel is mostly rotting flesh and he created life in him, I think that gets through a loophole), and Rand can wield it after descending from the Dragonmount and accepted Lews Therin as part of himself, mastering it entirely after he leaves his tainted body behind and has done his duty. It is the white light in his head, protecting his mind from the thorns of the taint (or at least leaving him Crazy Sane), and it isn't just light, but Light, the Light of Creation. It's basically a reward from the Creator for a job well done and a life well lived.
- AMOL Spoiler: Not explicitly refuted, but Artur Hawkwing does say the legends are wrong in one regard, so they're definitely not entirely bound by belief.
- Means: she could use the True Power, hence why neither Rand nor Aviendha could sense her.
- Motive: to become Nae'blis (and cast Moridin down) by getting rid of a traitor.
- Opportunity: Not confirmed, but the theory that she was one of the two "servants" cowering in the corridor, and that she was supposed to have been in Caemlyn helping Rahvin, which is why he was surprised at Rand getting into the palace, seems very convincing now.
- Be a person Asmodean recognized, who he didn't expect to see, and of whom he was terrified: First one is obvious since she's a Forsaken, and under the Two Servants Theory would have dropped her disguise while in the pantry as she did with Sammael while meeting the Shaido. Second one: as far as he knew, she was in Arad Doman and never left there. As for the third, read and find out...
- Be able to dispose of the body: See point 1. As to why she would, be patient...
- Must know Asmodean's fate: Her thoughts and comments during her talk with Sammael in Lord of Chaos, where she insisted he was dead, give this away.
Which just leaves unexplained why this was kept secret so long, and how it was "intuitively obvious" Graendal was the killer. The explanation for this, for why Asmodean was terrified when he saw her, and why she destroyed the body rather than leaving it to warn the other Forsaken about what happens to traitors, is all explained by another, more personal, enterprising motive she had for killing him besides becoming Nae'blis. Please direct your attention to the following points, from The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven:
- When Rand dreams of swimming in a waterhole with Min and Elayne, Lanfear shows up to get jealous, then Asmodean. She chastises him for almost giving their game plan away and then notes "he would still be hiding in his hole" if she had not hauled him out.
- When Rand is talking to Asmodean about the Forsaken and where they are located, he notes that he has spent some time in Arad Doman, and also that he knew Graendal had been there. The implication is that this is the "hole" in which he'd been hiding when Lanfear found him.
So, either one of two things happened. Either he was outright allied with, and a part of, Graendal's coterie until Lanfear absconded with him (likely via the World of Dreams) to make him Rand's teacher, or he had simply ferreted out where she was hiding. The latter sounds rather out-of-character, both in terms of his abilities (Asmodean was not a spy or sneak, nor very good at either) and his personality (a weaselly coward who wouldn't take the risk of being discovered). But either way, Graendal knew (or figured out) he knew where she was. Note that no other Forsaken, aside from Sammael, knew where she was hiding, at most only suspecting. Yet Asmodean did know.
Put that together with his later 'treachery', and Graendal's further motivation for killing him becomes clear. On the one hand, Asmodean was the only one who could give away where she was hiding, both to Rand and the other Forsaken. Killing him would silence him, assuming he hadn't already blown the whistle on her. (He had, but she didn't know this.) At the same time, if he had not merely discovered where she was but had been allied with her for a time, the fact he seemingly defected might have cast suspicion on her loyalties too, particularly with their common bonds (a once good past). Kill him, and she looks like a loyal Chosen to the others as well as to the Dark One.
This explains why he would be terrified when he saw her: because he knew she was there to silence him and/or punish him for giving her away to Rand, as well as for turning traitor. Why did she destroy the body? Because leaving it to be found would make Rand wonder why he was killed, and thus he would lend more credence to any information Asmodean had given him as being true. And telling the other Forsaken about it would give away she was trying to curry favor so as to become Nae'blis.
Hiding the fact she and Asmodean had been allied, as well as that she was offing a traitor not on the Dark One's orders, but so as to impress him and become Nae'blis, is why this was kept secret. And the fact he knew she was in Arad Doman when nobody else did, coupled with him having been "hiding in a hole" somewhere, should have made it obvious to the reader that she would be the one to kill him, to prevent him from telling Rand where she was.
As to why none of this was mentioned, for example, in any of the meetings between the Forsaken in Tel'aran'rhiod in book five this could be because a) it had already been discussed prior to Nynaeve listening in or us getting to witness the talks b) Graendal didn't know Lanfear took Asmodean, just that he vanished, so while she might guess what happened after Lanfear suddenly has knowledge of Asmodean's treachery, she can't confront her and prove it, or c) as we knew from her thoughts and comments in Lord of Chaos and has now been confirmed in Towers of Midnight, Graendal does not like to share her plots with others. So she would never admit to allying with Asmodean or killing him (let alone to Lanfear having snatched him away from her).
Further evidence: who all does Asmodean tell Rand about among the Forsaken, as far as locations go? Graendal herself, Sammael, Rahvin (though only that he had a queen as a pet), and Moghedien "somewhere in the west"—all people Graendal was meeting with. Who did he not know the locations of? Mesaana, Semirhage, and Demandred, the same ones Graendal hadn't located yet. Which suggests that Asmodean got all his information from Graendal, again underscoring them having been allies, or at least meeting on occasion.
In the prologue of Fires of Heaven, after Lanfear reveals Asmodean has joined Rand, the first person to change the subject is...Graendal, and she does so by being catty towards Lanfear and how besotted she was over Lews Therin. A very good way to keep anyone from prying too closely into what Asmodean might know or why he went over....
Then in retaliation for this a bit later, Lanfear suggests Rand might make Graendal into his pet instead, and notes she "won't even be able to make Asmodean's choice". This is in the context of not being able to teach Rand because she's a woman, but it is certainly interesting if read in the light that Lanfear knows very well Asmodean and Graendal had been allied...since she would basically be implying Graendal would make the same choice (change sides). Because they have something in common? Because they had been allies? Lanfear is certainly drawing a line between the two of them with her statement, thus justifying further Graendal's fears of being linked with Asmodean, and this being a reason to kill him.
What makes this a WMG, of course, is that while all of this is logical and makes sense, unless we ever get another POV from Graendal it can never be proven.
- This makes a certain amount of sense, particularly when you consider Sanderson's own Mistborn books. That trilogy has two gods (Preservation and Ruin) in opposition to one another, which results in three magic systems- one from Preservation (Allomancy) one from Ruin (Hemalurgy) and one from both (Feruchemy). Now, I'm not saying that Sanderson would make as big a change as adding a third kind of Power on his own, but since both cosmologies are driven by opposing, dualistic gods and we know that at least one of WOT's magic systems comes directly from one of them (the True Power from the Dark One) it does make one wonder...
- More support for the idea: we know the taint on saidin came from the Dark One, and could possibly even have been caused by the True Power mixing with the One Power. But in Towers of Midnight we discover that the thorns of Rand's taint madness have been coated by some "liquid light" which is protecting him and keeping him sane. This must be a result of his epiphany on Dragonmount in The Gathering Storm. We have no idea how Rand accomplished this healing, when he fully accepted and joined with Lews Therin, but the fact the moment coincided with light shining down upon him, thus breaking through what had been until that moment the Dark One's immovable cloud cover, is certainly suggestive. If there is a power exclusive only to the Creator and his champion, it would seem Rand unconsciously drew upon it to heal himself. Which in turn makes the prophecy about Callandor and the "three being one" very interesting, if it means the One Power, this power of the Creator, and the True Power (if Rand can still channel it due to his link with Moridin)...
- When Rand is in Far Madding and says that the Guardian only stops the One Power, we assume that he refers to his, still unresolved, ability to draw on the True Power. In a series where half the characters' primary trait is the ability to lie while speaking not a single untrue word. Who is to say that, if the Borderlanders had decided to kill him, he was referring to some new, uncertain ability?
- (OP back again) I've had another thought that is slightly related to this in reference to the thorns of liquid light that were mentioned, that Rand may be the reincarnation of the creator, it might be that as a result of integrating with Lews he's come slightly closer to being the full creator than any other version of The Dragon that has been before. As a result of that he may be able to join with the rest of the incarnations when he dies as a result of the prophesy about the Horn Of Valere. He's protected from the taint because the Creator's natural power and the True Power counteract each other, forcing them to compete on entirely different terms, hence the armies and the Heroes of the Horn.
- Actually, sort of yep, although it doesn't come into play until the post-Last Battle epilogue and then is used only for lighting Rand's pipe.
- There's nothing pointing to it being a new power. If anything, it looks like Pattern manipulation.
- Entirely possible. Though it could also be Rand was given the ability to channel it because he had become unstable and insane enough to please the Dark One. Remember it always wanted Rand to serve it if it could get him...presumably if he started doing or being what it wanted, it would start extending the rewards it promised. Also, neither Moridin nor the Dark One were pleased with Semirhage's failure—so if Rand hadn't killed her, it was obvious she was slated for a You Have Failed Me moment. No reason they couldn't have taken the chance to get rid of her through Rand's True Power usage. Or option 1.5: Rand pleased them by becoming dark and hard enough to serve the Dark One, which meant that Semirhage actually succeeded at her mission. But then she wasn't needed anymore, so...
- It seems fairly likely that Rand and Moridin's connection and Rand's link to the True Power originated from when their balefire crossed in Shadar Logoth killing Sammael. Rand's OP balefire and Moridin's TP balefire merged, linking them and giving Rand access to Moridin's TP. This also caused the waves of dizziness that Rand experiences since TPOD.
- In one of Sanderson's books, it's made quite clear that Moridin/Ishmael viewed the return of his sanity as a punishment - if he can't think properly, he isn't thinking about the things that led him to despair in the first place.
- Which could also explain why they are used as 'filters' for the circle of 13 Dreadlords which can turn a channeler to the Shadow—it is the True Power, the essence of the Dark One, in them that causes the channeler's soul to have their worst/evil traits brought out.
- Perhaps the whole reason they are what they are is that they are Trollocs with the channeling gene?
- Only the Forsaken can channel the True Power. Callandor is a True Power sa'angreal, and surely you need to be able to channel the True Power to make one. The prime candidate would be Ishy, who channels the TP most, except that when he finally gets ahold of Callandor he's stunned by its properties.
- Be'lal seems to be obsessed with getting ahold of Callandor, to the extent that other Forsaken (like Rahvin) call him a fool for wanting it so badly.
- Be'lal has gathered the means to use Callandor safety—he has captured female channelers whom he intends to turn to the Shadow and/or Compel. Yes, they're also there to bait Rand, but the man is known for his complicated plots. Nobody seems to know about Callandor's weaknesses yet (certainly not the readers).
- Be'lal is known as the Netweaver for his complicated plots, yet what we know of his actions doesn't look all that complicated.
I propose the following:
Callandor was created by Be'lal as a trap for Lews Therin, perhaps before he was known to have defected to the Shadow. (Even the Guide contradicts itself on when he defected: early or late in the Collapse, or even after the War of Power began. Maybe he defected long before he did so publicly, like some of the other Forsaken.) Be'lal intended to have a pair of turned and Compelled women present to seize control of Lews the moment he took Callandor. For whatever reason, it didn't go down that way. (We're not even sure Lews Therin ever actually held Callandor.) In this way, Be'lal could make Lews Therin channel whatever he wanted, up to and including destroying himself with the Power. Be'lal could also use the sa'angreal safely himself by this means after disposing of Lews; Compelled channelers could technically control the link while doing whatever Be'lal wanted.
If this is the case, then Be'lal really does live up to his name—he came within a few heartbeats of pulling off a trap that he set in motion thousands of years before.
- There is one major flaw in this theory though: Callandor has, by all accounts, been made during the Breaking, after Be'lal had already been sealed. This is supported both by the BWB (manual) and Rand's Aiel viewings in The Shadow Rising.
Now think back to the end of The Great Hunt, when Rand fought Ishamael and their fight was projected in the sky. The prophecy about this battle specifically said, "Above the watchers shall he proclaim himself"; since the author is a big fan of Exact Words, it follows that Rand was directly, though probably unconsciously, responsible for this display.
If anyone happened to look up, then they probably would have been pretty engrossed. Any man with the latent ability to channel would have had his spark brought forth, along with any associated madness.
Masema was among the Shienaran soldiers involved in the battle. When he reappears in The Fires of Heaven, he is completely insane; Perrin's nose confirms this in a later book (The Path of Daggers?).
In another book, Verin thinks to herself that if a wilder learns to channel on her own, she always figures out one of two things - Eavesdropping or Compulsion. Verin is specifically thinking about women, but it's not unreasonable to think that the same may be true of men.
Let's look at Masema - an insane, poor, foreign soldier who manages to gather a huge force of fanatics in Ghealdan - and most people in the Westlands don't like the Dragon. This sounds entirely like Compulsion, which he learned unconsciously after his latent channeling ability was brought to the fore after witnessing the battle in the sky.
- Wouldn't Perrin's Asha'man say something?
- Actually, male channelers cannot tell if a man can channel if he isn't already holding saidin, and even then they can't tell how powerful he is unless he holds as much of it as he can without burning himself out.
- Not to mention what happened near the beginning of The Gathering Storm. It makes me doubt Masema could channel.
- Well, not any more he can't!
- He didn't know he could channel. That would be blasphemy, after all.
- There already large numbers of Dragonsworn long before Masema got his Prophet on. They just started flocking around him because he was a direct connection to the Lord Dragon. Additionally he tended to attract a certain kind of people. The kind you wouldn't like to meet. Ever.
And since Rand is Galad's half brother through his mother, it seems very possible that Galad has the spark as well.
- I think you mean that he would be one of those who could be taught to channel, because if he had the spark inborn he would have channeled on his own by now. But in all other respects this is a highly plausible theory. Also, for added humor value, perhaps this means he's the one responsible for the Cosmic Dress being woven below (what man in Randland would know how to create a proper dress for a woman? No wonder the Dark One isn't happy!).
- Or, alternatively he does have the spark and has been channeling since a very young age. The "always do what is right, not matter who it hurts" could be his own specific madness brought on by the taint: Galad realized he was channeling and created the "always do good" as a defense mechanism (similar to Rand's "never kill women" thing), the reason being that even if he went mad, so long as he kept that at the core of his character then ultimately he would do good and thus not risk breaking the world again and causing suffering and injustice. Over time this became twisted by the taint so that he began to lose his human empathy for those that were hurt in his upholding of justice (again like Rand's thing, where his protection of women from battle mutated into extreme Honor Before Reason, and crossed somewhat into Lawful Stupid). Eventually this would have lead to the inevitable Well-Intentioned Extremist route, where he would have seen the ultimate justice for all the horribleness in the world was to Break it again and he would never have realized he had gone mad until it was too late.
Canonically, we know that Morgase is cc. Elayne is also cc, so it follows that Taringail must have been Cc or cc. If he was cc, then Gawyn is also cc. If, on the other hand, Taringail was Cc, then Gawyn definitely got the c allele from Morgase, and has an even chance of getting the C or c allele from Taringail. Thus, a Cc Taringail means Gawyn could equally likely by Cc or cc.
Hence, purely by statistics and the laws of genetics, there is at least a 50% probability that Gawyn can learn to channel.
- Actually, this reasoning only works if one assumes that ability to channel comes from just a single gene. Given the extreme rarity of the ability, it seems likely that there are multiple genes involved, with some of them granting the ability, and others creating the spark. Noting that Morgase has just the barest hint of channelling ability (she likely couldn't even match post-healing Siuan if she used the Choedan Kal), and that she didn't have the spark, we can be fairly confident that the probability of Gawyn also having the ability is fairly slim. That said, it certainly isn't impossible. It would actually be quite funny if it turned out that Gawyn was not only capable of channelling, but if taught, was comparable in strength to Egwene. Personally, I'm more hoping that Gawyn is found to be capable of Dreaming (as it has been established that the ability is not tied directly to ability to channel, and while we haven't seen a male dreamwalker, it seems likely that they can exist) - alternatively, perhaps the Warder bond will give him the ability to follow her into Tel'aran'rhiod.
- The mechanics of channeling ability are't consistent. When the DO stuffs Forsaken souls into new bodies, they are exactly as powerful as they were before, even to the point of a gender mismatch using the "wrong" power. Presumably whomever the poor chick was before she got an evil dude's soul jammed inside her, Aran'gar couldn't channel saidin. Perrin even recoginized Cyadane!Lanfear by scent. In a new body. Rand is exactly as powerful Lews Therin ever was, despite not being descended from himself (since he sort of murdered ever relative he had). Souls seem to have at least as much to do with it as genetics. Of course, willpower seems to be directly tied to power right up until Mo L, so who knows.
- So for the sake of argument, why does the Dark One want Rand to balefire the Forsaken?
- Presumably, to further damage the Pattern, making it easier for him to break free.
- To follow from the above: the Forsaken are still threads in the Pattern, and if the Pattern is the Dark One's prison or must completely unravel for him to break free of the prison, then all threads must be destroyed, even the Forsaken's. Nae'blis may possibly mean "last to die"; Moridin certainly seems to want everything to end, so it makes sense he would encourage Rand to use balefire on the Forsaken so as to help break the Dark One free so he will destroy reality. Semirhage even has thoughts something like this, when she wonders about the Dark One moving the Forsaken about like game pieces: "The Chosen might be Spires or Counselors, but they were still pieces on the board."
It's clear the Dark One is not stupid. If he really wanted to escape he'd have picked out more competent leaders. Instead, he picked people who are excellent sources of fun. He doesn't want them to succeed so much as fail entertainingly.
- He's winning.
- One could Take a Third Option and say both are true- he does want to win and get out, but he doesn't rely on (most of) the Forsaken to help with that. They're just there to provide entertainment, since watching a bunch of lunatics run around screwing the world up is how a God of Evil gets his jollies, and are ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of things- except as a distraction for everyone else, while the real plans get carried out by Ishamael/Moridin and Shaidar Haran.
- I would like to toss in the idea that The Forsaken as a whole exist to distract from Ishamael and Shaidar Haran,I would even go as far as saying that Ishamael attacked Rand in the Stone of Tear to get resurrected so he could go underground and pull the strings in the background while Rand spend his time dealing with with the other forsaken.
- AMOL Spoilers: The Dark One really does seem to want to get out, but he doesn't really care at all for the Forsaken, even Moridin. Of the three visions he shows Rand of worlds he might create, in only one do the Chosen actually get to rule- in the second, the Shadow's armies were defeated but the Dark One swooped in and altered humanity to be like him without the victors realizing anything was wrong, and the final one was a void. In the long run, the Forsaken's main job looks to have been making the Dark One's job easier by using lots of balefire to weaken reality, while Moridin's job was to suck Rand into a battle with the DO.
- It's next to impossible - but so far as we know, the DO has eternity to keep at it. He can afford the wait. It's also said that if he's freed in one timeline, he's freed in all of them.
- The alternate timelines stuff kind of shows up in AMOL As the battle progresses, Shayol Gul gets increasingly disassociated from the rest of reality, to the point that it becomes impossible to gate there. The people fighting there see ghostly images of other armies also fighting Trollocs, and it's implied that they're overlaid from other worlds. It's thus possible that there's really only one Bore, and all incarnations of the Dragon sealed it "simultaneously", as far as that word can be applied to any events subject to so much time dilation. Alternately, realities where the Bore gets bad enough may outright merge.
- This theory is based on Word of God confirmation that Mordeth went to the Finns (maybe Shaisam is Finnland's Dark One and they hooked him up with Mordeth in hopes of getting rid of him?), Fain had somehow managed to sidestep the Pattern in certain ways, and that there was a specific dark force driving Mordeth/Fain, as well as in AMOL his name change and the fact that he's become more a force than a person, albeit one still tied to the human body of Fain.
- In Towers of Midnight, Aveindha sees The future of her descendants, who will be destroyed by the Aiel. And she's disgusted by her great, great, great granddaughter's life and almost abandons her test in the glass columns after seeing it. Knowing this, and the fact that Fortuona is not going to negotiate, plus the Seanchan Have travelling, which makes Elaida's karmic capture much less sweeter, the best bet anyone has of eliminating the threat is revealing the secret of the a'dam bracelets, which would cripple the Seanchan empire since it's been conformed they heavily rely on damane. However, it is possible Fortuona will make changes to the empire to avoid this, since she has seen the loyalty she has been given on the other side of the Aryth Ocean and thinks herself foolish for considering that Mat, her own husband, won't scheme against her, since the royal family are encouraged to plot against each other and try to assassinate their own brothers and sisters. This could encourage her to change the methods by which the Seanchan do things, or perhaps Mat's Ta'veren nature will do it.
- First Age: Channeling disappears (one of two places - Maybe both)- PRESENT TIME
- Second Age/Age of Legends: Channeling reapears (if disappeared at start of first age)
- Third Age: War of power, first Breaking of the World (Age in which the books take place)(canon)
- Fourth Age: The Last Battle, second Breaking of the world (canon, but hasn't happened yet)
- Fifth Age: Channeling disappears (second possible place- again, maybe both)
- Sixth Age: Channeling reappears (second possible place - maybe both)
- Seventh Age: Actually, I don't have a theory for this- maybe someone else does?
- How about peace, prosperity, and carelessness?
- It is likely that this and the sixth ages would have formed the basis of our own ancient mythology.
- Here's an idea. The Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's other Middle Earth works are more or less implied to be precursors to our own modern myths. And if we consider that each respective Age is sort of a retelling of each other with just the specific details muddled, a fair argument could be made to say that the Sixth and Seventh ages of Wheel of Time are the Third and Fourth Ages of Middle Earth.
- What if instead of using Middle Earth, we use a setting Jordan wrote in prior to Wheel of Time: Conan. Since it is implied our age is the First Age, it would go: 5: Age of Atlantis, 6: Hyborian Age, 7: Ancient History (BCE), 1: Current Age/Age of Wonders (CE), 2: Age of Legends, 3: Third Age, 4: Fourth Age.
- In "T Eot W" Thom makes references to "the Age before the Age of Legends" that sound like the Space Race and the Cold War.
- Selectively ignoring pieces of stories, worlds and cosmologies? We KNOW that the world of Middle Earth was created by the valar, We KNOW that the world of Wo T was created by the Creator and is cyclical. While the magic feats of Lot R could be done with the One or True Power, many things that are easy with them aren't possible there. No go. But as far as i know creation of the world and how magic works is unclear in Conan, so it could be part of Lot R, but this isn't the place for that...
- That has to be the funniest thing I have read in a long time. You, sir or madam, are Made of Win.
- It makes even more sense when you think about it: This time the last battle is for keeps, so it's almost done. It was meant to be size 12 but since Sanderson is finishing it he can give it to someone else, so it's going to be size 14!
- AMOL Spoiler: Well, Rand sees the pattern in its entirety, and doesn't use the words "pretty" or "fabulous", so this seems unlikely.
Also consider they must have some kind of ability to read Randland's pattern, since they can read the future and past with perfect accuracy. And not only can they view these things, they're able to actually take ancient memories completely intact and put them in some poor soul's mind. This either speaks of a very... unusual Power or very high technology. But if there's more than one Wheel, does that mean there's more than one Dark One, since Randland's End Times don't seem to be bleeding over? How many Wheels are there, anyway? Would this explain why the Creator has helped Rand exactly once (in the first book), since he has so many other Wheels to watch? What are they for? Is he a weaver, and when he closes for the night all time stops?
- Let's just think of this as an alternate reality where the Dark One doesn't exist. That would also explain the healthy world above.
- Cycle is longer than that. I'd guess we'll hit the pre-AoL era via the Seachan exterminating channelers, going by Aviendha's vision of the future, then a new Aiel group will take up the Way of the Leaf after channeling gets rediscovered.
- The first age can't be our own because the portal stones are said to be from an earlier age and not even fully understood by the people in the age of legends. Our own could be the seventh though.
Except that the first age can't REALLY be "first," because "there are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time." There's nothing special about that age that marks it as "the First Age," it just happens to be as far back as the legends (based on some scrap of historical fact) in the present time go.
When Rand kicks the Dark One's ass and breaks the world again and the Fourth Age begins, it might be called the Fourth Age for a couple hundred years because the previous age was called the Third Age, but eventually the fact that the Age of Prophecy was ever called the Third Age will be forgotten, and the new Age will be called the Third Age because the people living in it will only remember two previous Ages: the Age of Prophecy (about which they'll remember a fair bit) and the Age of Legends (about which they'll remember only a few jumbled scraps). Any tiny scraps still remembered about the previous "First" Age will be conflated with what little they know about the AoL.
This may fall into "Well, duh," territory, but I think it's interesting.
- Also, why would you set a Final Battle in the Third Age of seven? You'd end up repeating the whole thing, and there'd be four whole Ages for things to go wrong. If it's really the Final Battle, wouldn't that make it the Sixth Age, making about one more Age of peace before things begin again?
- AMOL Spoiler: Well, they explicitly use the phrase "Fourth Age" in several places, so no.
It's been stated that Rand is more strongly Ta'veren than anyone since Arthur Hawkwing, and strongly implied that he may be even stronger.
Perhaps Rand is so strongly Ta'veren that growing up as one of his best friends shapes the pattern around you to such a degree that you become Ta'veren yourself.
In later books, Egwene is asked whether she is Ta'veren because although she is not identified as such by those with talents, events seem to shape themselves around her.
This theory treats Ta'veren less as a binary state and more as a gradual scale, wherein Rand's presence gradually pulls you towards the Ta'veren end of the scale. Those who met him recently find themselves swirled about. Those he loves have a slightly more pull on the pattern. A sweetheart from adolescence has still more effect, and those who played with him even as little children are fully Ta'veren.
- False: It is mentioned the Ways were once light, with a sun shining and green islands. They have only gone dark because of the Taint (or maybe Mashadar aka Machin Shin?), while, on the other hand Rand would have noticed if the Skimming place had changed since the Age of Legends.
- Everything we've heard about Seanchan history indicates that the continent was controlled by channeling warlords prior to the arrival of Hawkwing's armies, and one of them created the a'dam in an attempt to curry favor with the invaders (and was rewarded by having her device used on her). That's why they consider channelers to be Always Chaotic Evil, because they'd pretty much run what would become the Seanchan Empire into the ground.
What are the odds that she was born to be the best at all these things simultaneously? It seems more likely that she acquired these powers somehow. The logical way to do that would be by visiting the Eelfinn (foxes) and getting some wishes granted. Of course the foxes would demand too high a price so she had to cheat. "Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind." Fire and Iron seem easy, but Lanfear isn't known to be particularly musical. She would need help from a musician, for example Asmodean who was known as a famous composer and musician in the age of legends.
So she could have cheated the Eelfinn (foxes) out of three wishes. Perhaps she also cheated the Snakes out of true answers (remember that she was the only one who knew how to tap into the dark one's prison) but that isn't really necessary for the theory.
When Lanfear entered finn-land a second time she would certainly have been stripped of her ill-gotten wishes. It might be suguested that you cannot enter twice, but Jordan loves Exact Words and Moiraine said no one could "step through" the doorway twice. At the docks Lanfear was pushed through by Moiraine which may not count as stepping through. It is also possible that Lanfear originally entered through the Tower of Ghenjei.
If it is true, then this theory explains a few things that seem mysterious:
- Q: Why is Cyndane less powerful than Lanfear was?
- A: Well she is less powerful because now she is at her natural power strength rather than her wish enhanced power strength.
- Jossed. Towers of Midnight reveals that the Snakes and Foxes were slowly draining Moiraine's ability to channel, and that they accidentally killed Lanfear by draining her too quickly, inadvertently preserving most of her strength when she gets reincarnated by the Dark One. Moiraine, on the other hand, the Snakes and Foxes drained more slowly, and thus she lost much more of her strength before finally getting rescued.
- Q: If Asmodean was killed by Lanfear (as seems likely) how did he recognize his killer since Lanfear was in the new "Cyndane" body by that time?
- A: He recognizes her since she is not in a "new" body at all. The Finn never killed her and she was never resurrected. She just got her wish for beauty revoked and now looks different. Asmodean recognizes her pre-wish body since he helped her to get the wishes in the first place.
- Jossed, at least in part, by Towers of Midnight. Lanfear was weaker as Cyndane because the Aelfinn and Eelfinn can actually drain the One Power from somebody, and that includes the talent for using it rather than just what somebody is holding. Lanfear was saved by the Dark One before it got too bad, but Moiraine was reduced to what is probably about what Siuan currently has, if not less.
- Not to mention by the fact that Graendal killed Asmodean.
- Jossed, at least in part, by Towers of Midnight. Lanfear was weaker as Cyndane because the Aelfinn and Eelfinn can actually drain the One Power from somebody, and that includes the talent for using it rather than just what somebody is holding. Lanfear was saved by the Dark One before it got too bad, but Moiraine was reduced to what is probably about what Siuan currently has, if not less.
- Elayne: Egwene had just dumped him, he was starting to realise the pressure of being the Dragon Reborn and here he had a girl confess her love for him. She was possibly a rebound and a way of coping with stress. Also, he had his first kiss with her, which his home town considers to be off limits unless you're engaged so through his eyes, he lost his virginity to her.
- Aveindha: Elayne sends Rand two contradicting letters, confusing him about her feelings. He then travels with a group of strangers and his friends are ignoring him because they're busy or, in Mat's case, afraid of him. Then there's this pretty girl who is constantly around him and the two converse about their own traditions and laws. They share a tent and she casually gets undressed in front of him without a thought. They then sleep together, so he loses his actual virginity to her. Plus, when he lead the attack on Caemlyn, she died and he only narrowly brought her back. Again, lust confusion with love and possibly some guilt.
- Min: Aveindha has just left, but because Rand sent her away so it's on better terms. Rand is starting to hear Lews Therin, the stresses of running three kingdoms, setting up the black tower and preparing to invade Illian are getting to him. Along comes Min and he uses her to cope with stress the same way he did with Elayne.
- Well, considering that love can have many subjective definitions, the amount of shit Rand's busy trying to deal with, his normal treatment of women and the fact that the series never really delves all that deeply into his feelings for them, you could very well be right, but there's more evidence so far to suggest he does love them than there is that he doesn't.
- I want to know where this idea that "in the Two Rivers kissing = engagement" came from. Book 4 (oddly enough, the same volume in which Rand first kisses Elayne) should have effectively killed that theory, because there is a LOT of kissing going on. And not just for the Casanovas like Mat or Wil al'Seen. Take Perrin, for example. Of the Big Three, probably the most prudish or at least most reserved. Also has no problem kissing Faile long before any formal arrangement is made. And when he goes back to the Two Rivers, sees the first girl he ever kissed (I believe now married to someone else), implying that there have been others. Perrin telling Mat's father about what the son has been up to: dicing and kissing pretty girls. Perrin's not embarrassed to tell it and Abel's not embarrassed to hear it; not exactly like "yeah, Mat's gone off to the city and become a turboslut." Rand says that Berelain was acting as if they were betrothed, by which he means coming to his bedroom alone in the middle of the night wearing a few scraps of silk and throwing herself at him. Clearly what she had in mind was well beyond the kissing stage. Even Egwene, who admittedly is slightly prudish, didn't have a problem sitting in a private room and locking lips with Gawyn by Book 6.
- Ummm, Towers of Midnight? By about Winters Heart, much of the taint is gone anyway, except to possibly to those who already have it. But yea, he lasts like seven or so books without getting healed before that happens.
- But the taint still affects those men who channelled pre-WH - other than for those Nynaeve has cured, the madness hasn't gone away, it's just stopped getting worse. But To M Rand has no madness, despite doing immense amounts of channelling pre-WH.
- Ummm, Towers of Midnight? By about Winters Heart, much of the taint is gone anyway, except to possibly to those who already have it. But yea, he lasts like seven or so books without getting healed before that happens.
So why did Rand spend twelve books going completely bonkers? Well, the Rand half is a shepherd who suddenly finds out that he's Jesus Napoleon, and the Lews Therin half went crazy and slaughtered his family. Each half of them is independently crazy for reasons having nothing to do with the taint, and both of them have some crazy dude in their head talking to them for reasons they don't understand. Wouldn't you go a bit loopy too?
- Almost every time he seized the source he mentioned feeling it.
- Just because he can feel it doesn't mean it can affect him.
- Except that in Towers of Midnight, when Nynaeve looks into Rand's mind, she finds the huge shadow of the taint and its madness with countless thorns piercing his brain. The reason he isn't being affected by it is because of his epiphany on Dragonmount, which somehow coated those thorns with "liquid light". Whatever that is and how it came about, that is why he is now sane, not because he never suffered from the taint.
- I think the point being made is that the "liquid light" may have been there from the start, effectively put in place by Ishamael on healing Lews Therin, due to Lews Therin then channelling that massive amount of the One Power to create Dragonmount. With that "liquid light" protective shield, Rand never actually got driven crazy by the taint, or so the troper was proposing. Personally, I think Lews Therin's power usage in creating Dragonmount is where the "Liquid Light" came from, but it entered at the time of epiphany - had Rand been anywhere else, the epiphany wouldn't have happened.
- That is exactly what I was proposing - that the "liquid light" has nothing to do with the epiphany, and was put into place during the prologue in T Eot W, and simply not noticed until To M.
- If Rand has always had the liquid light protecting him, perhaps that was what the Eye of the World was for, we were never given a reason why it was created other than being the place where they stored The Banner and The Horn.
- Almost every time he seized the source he mentioned feeling it.
- Or as a horse. For those who are convinced that Olver is Gaidal Cain, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to believe that Bela is Rand Reborn.
- Actually, there is a reason- Word of God is that souls are normally tied to one gender (Aran'gar, the obvious exception, was the result of the Dark One screwing around, and even then she still channeled saidin). However, there is also apparently a female Chosen One soul that gets spun out by the pattern about half the time. So The Dragon is always male, but the Light's champion isn't.
- Was going to suggest the same thing. The Amazon series IS canon. It's just showing us the end of the Third Age during a different cycle of the Wheel, hence why the same general events occur, but it's not the same as the previous or future version of the Third Age that is told in the books. If the showrunners came out and said this, it might even appease fans who complain about changes. It would perhaps be the first adaptation that offers an air-tight in-universe justification for changes to the source material.
