There are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of other sessions happening at the same time all separate from one another, with their own group of Exiles, Derse and Prospit, Denizens, and worlds, though the classes and rules are universal. This way even if most sessions are glitched or void, chances are at least one group will make a new universe for the game to continue.
All successful game sessions contribute to the next universe to some degree, and then Paradox Space creates a session that continues with your Genesis Frog, in effect loading an old save. So if you fail to complete the frog quest in the original (Sgrub) and load the file into the sequel (Sburb) you will unlock an alternate final boss. Other Sgrub sessions affect other Sburb sessions, and a number of "vanilla" sessions are started to, identical to a session with the frog quest complete.
Exactly what happens when a successful team enters their new universe isn't clear, but it might actually connect into their "Sequel session" to act as exiles or some sort of pseudo-sprite, increasing the likelihood of a successful session. Sgrub sessions might be teamed up with Sburb sessions that are unusually difficult to actually assist in the game proper. The Troll session was a "Vanilla" one, so it was easier but they never met the previous session players. It's also why only Vriska made it to the God Tiers in the game proper.
- Another possibility is that every session makes its own Genesis Frog, resulting in each universe having the potential to create several hundred offspring universes, even if only a few of those potential offspring/sessions result in a viable genesis frog. Evidently, universes/genesis frogs are an r-selected species.
- Any evidence that we have that the beta kids are the only four to get through the first part of Sburb is pure speculation on Rose's part. There could be dozens of sessions originating from that Earth. Likewise, we know of at least one universe with two different session in it, since the Cherub session started on the same world as the Alpha session. Finally, the Trolls are noted to have a galaxy-spanning empire, conquering several alien species, any of which could have the code to make the game (likewise, those worlds kept on living even after all the trolls died out; the universe was destroyed 612 sweeps later when Snowman died, but that's still 1326 years — plenty of time for a lot of things to happen).
- As a side note, in our world (see following theory) this would perhaps be Steam.
- Carrying on from that, it is possible the eventual change was evolution of the kids' descendants throughout time after they entered the session they eventually create, assuming they manage to do so.
- Or maybe that is just Hussies way of drawing them. (remember how Calliborn drew Homostuck differently and the Homostuck universe actually turned out like that?). In reality, Hussie is probably from a previous universe were he became winner of the game and thus had full *control* over the newly created universe. Due to being God Tier (a different kind from his universe), he managed to fake his death when uu killed him, so that he could continue being the one, true narrator of Homestuck. Why would he make uu successful though? Probably to help the kids like the Condense did (kinda). I also have a theory that he is a Lord of Hope, giving that he is the narrator. He then disguised himself as a Space player (when he went out to get Doc) so that he can fool everyone (so that they cant be afraid of him) and break the Fenestrated wall.
- This is basically canon. The only reason that most of the weird stuff is happening is due to Lord English and/or Bec Noir, and Bec Noir only exists because Karkat messed up the Genesis Frog's genetics.
- Also, if Caliborn is Lord English (which is almost definitely the case at this point), note that his time warping powers as a Lord have spanned across sessions and beyond. The presence of First Guardians also spans across sessions. If the Muse is responsible, she would have power similar to English, but in a passive way.
- Except for the fact that that isn't actually what passive and active mean. It's not about control, or action and lack thereof; passive refers to a player that uses their powers to aid their co-players, while an active player uses their powers to aid themselves.
- That's not quite it either. An active player uses their aspect, while a passive player is acted on by their aspect
- Classpects are so loosely defined that you could both be right so I wouldn't be so hasty to just call the other guy wrong without evidence against what he said.
- That's not quite it either. An active player uses their aspect, while a passive player is acted on by their aspect
- Vriska's death is ambiguous and thus can't really be regarded. John as you say, was stabbed in a fight long before that fight had any meaning to him or anyone else beyond pure emotional rage, so he didn't qualify as heroic. Now if say, John were to fight Jack again, alone, that would probably be heroic.
- This troper agrees that Vriska's death cannot be used as an example, since her clock was broken by Spades Slick prior to her death.
- Aradia's death offscreen seems to support this, as it was a willing Heroic Sacrifice.
- What offscreen death? She's very much alive. And she intends to stay that way.
- It may simply be that Skaia/Paradox Space decides.
- None of the A 6 A 6 I 2-3 deaths contradict this by themselves (although it's doubtful Aranea would have seen her own death as Just), but Hussie's comments in their aftermath, especially regarding Rose, suggest the standards are a bit more objective than this.
The other trolls probably had some effect on the humans' world, but Karkat seems to be the deciding factor here.
- Karkat and Kanaya were the main shaping factors for our universe, because they were the ones who made B. Slick. Earth itself is only one among potentially many civilizations in that universe.
- Under this theory, Bilious Slick would be the original "leader" (taking the position of John or Karkat), yes?
- Problems, since Sburb is timeless, any session could be said to be the first.
- The First would be the one that wasn't created by any other session...
- And given the nature of Sburb, it's entirely likely there isn't such a session.
- Most likely option is that he chases the trolls out into the Ring while they try to escape.
- Knight: standard combat class. See Dave, Karkat
- Confirmed by Aradia.
- To be more specific though, a class the functions off protection their aspect, or protecting others using their aspect.
- Witch: Heavy artillery. Functions like the D&D wizard.
- Artillery functions have not been shown, but witches seem to be able to manipulate their Aspect in their surroundings. Jade's abilities are confused by her sprite & first guardian powers, but she has shown the ability to manipulate the size and position of objects. The Condesce can extend lives. God Tier Feferi can heal, possibly as another manifestation of 'extending life'.
- Word of God is that a Witch is one of the most, if not the most strongly active class, aside from the Master Class. Seemingly Confirmed.
- Except attempting to draw generalized parallels to the "stereotypical class powers" in Role Playing Games is futile, due to Hussie's subversion (e.g the Bard supports by destroying).
- Artillery functions have not been shown, but witches seem to be able to manipulate their Aspect in their surroundings. Jade's abilities are confused by her sprite & first guardian powers, but she has shown the ability to manipulate the size and position of objects. The Condesce can extend lives. God Tier Feferi can heal, possibly as another manifestation of 'extending life'.
- Heir: Magikarp Power based combat class. John clearly; Equius, had he lasted longer, might have learned to actually use a bow, since he already had epic mangrit.
- Or perhaps just a class that is passively supported by their aspect. Equius' only confirmed power was the psychic void around him; John initially could only manifest the Windy Thing to protect himself.
- Sylph: Like the Witch, but more of a healing and buffing focus. Closer to a cleric than a wizard.
- Seemingly confirmed by Aranea. Kanaya seems to be a small exception as she never displayed any healing abilities, but then again she has never displayed her Space abilities period. They also do seem to be the passive counterpart to a Witch, both being exclusively female.
- Kanaya "heals space" by providing the oasis in which she grew up in, and also by being the keeper of the Matriorb/possibly the savior of her species.
- Mythologically speaking, the sylphs were invisible spirits of the air often associated with fairies- "invisible" cluing into the very definitely Passive role of the Sylph. As elemental spirits, Sylphs would probably have been invoked by Witches, as jesters (in this case, Bards) were called upon to amuse Princes or Pages were called upon to aid and arm Knights.
- Mage: Superwitch. Totally helpless if somehow deprived of class powers, but ultra-powerful (note that Sollux can casually fly from Derse to LOBAF on the first rung of his echeladder. Jade, flying around Prospit, appears confined to street level.)
- The only powers Sollux has demonstrated that tie into his Aspect as the Hero of Doom is his ability to see the "soon to be dead." It's possible that the Mage is more of an information-related class, like the Seer, and that Sollux's telekinetic and energy blast powers are unrelated, like many of the trolls' psychic abilities.
- Mage very well could be a passive counterpart to Knight.
- What if, as the Mage of Doom, Sollux's prophecies came true because he made them: as opposed to the Seer's abilities to find information, whatever Sollux says becomes true as an effect of his powers, for better or for worse (which as the Doom player, means worse). This might make the Mage more of an active Seer.
- Not sure if it fits here, but perhaps Mages gain knowledge through their aspect, as apposed to how Seers have al ot of knowledge about their aspect and make predictions relating to their aspect?
- Mages could be an active counterpart to the Seer with the intent of guiding the course of the aspect itself- Meulin used her Mage of Heart powers to influence her ships, and by a funny coincidence her name is similar to Merlin, King Arthur's guide and teacher.
- While a Witch alters objects and forces governed by her aspect (ie Jade's ability to alter size and velocity, but not distance) and a Seer has an elevated understanding of their aspect and gains requisite knowledge to allow it to come to pass (ie Rose's ability to map the way to good fortune), the Mage uses their ability to manipulate and create/cause the aspect itself via their understanding of it (ie Sollux's predictions of the A2 party's deaths).
- The only powers Sollux has demonstrated that tie into his Aspect as the Hero of Doom is his ability to see the "soon to be dead." It's possible that the Mage is more of an information-related class, like the Seer, and that Sollux's telekinetic and energy blast powers are unrelated, like many of the trolls' psychic abilities.
- Seer: Exactly what Scratch's narration says it is: an information and prediction based support class
- Confirmed by Aradia and Doc Scratch.
- Thief: Primarily a support class, based on buffing/debuffing. This would fit with Vriska's luck powers and, in a more meta way, with her tendency to hunt down every last bit of treasure and gain ALL the levels.
- Confirmed by UU. Basically Thieves steal an aspect from their enemies to strengthen themselves.
- Also Jossed by UU. Thieves are not a support class. They are an active class who use their abilities for their own benefit.
- Page: Support class, meant to work with and enhance the Knight, Heir, or Prince. Near useless on its own, or with any other class.
- Maybe not exclusive to those classes, but I'd say that if the Knight is "one who protects X or protects via X", then the Page could be "one who strengthens or empowers (via) X".
- Aranea tells Jake that he may inspire Hope across all sessions by defeating Lord English.
- Hinted by Jake's brain ghost of Dirk to be an extreme Magikarp Power class, even more so than the Heir.
- Another possibility based upon the description of Horuss' abilities; "One who has limitless potential through X"
- Maybe not exclusive to those classes, but I'd say that if the Knight is "one who protects X or protects via X", then the Page could be "one who strengthens or empowers (via) X".
- Prince: Even more combat focused than the knight, with no other abilities. Alternately, we have no clue, because Eridan was a terrible Prince.
- Scratch that, before he unlocked anything that even looked like his attribute ability he killed each and every angel on his planet which took minutes of sustained fire for every single one. Later on he managed to one hit KO's three of his teamates. He is not a terrible Prince, he is a terrible person.
- According to UU, Princes are The Nuker, they're an active class that destroys.
- Making the original idea Confirmed
- Specifically, they destroy their Aspect or destroy through it.
- As a destroyer, destroying nigh indestructible allied constructs makes him, as said above, a great prince, especially when he is now "destroyer of hope," ending any hope for his species' sustained existance effectively makes him the greatest prince of hope of all time...
- Another possibility: Glass Cannon. Princes pay for their obscene destructive power by having a miniscule hp pool. Think about it: the only time all princes we've seen take any amount of damage more than minor bumps or bruises, they die. (Bro avoided every attack made on him except the one one that killed him, and Eridan always managed to attack first without taking damage, except once.)
- Bard: Support class meant to be used during the quest. The Bard's planet would be the ideal resting place, with no super-lethal minions and relatively few sidequests. The class itself would be more element dependent.
- According to UU, Bards are the wildcard, a passive class that interacts with it's element.
- Specifically, they are a destroyer class and the passive counterpart to the Prince. They either allow others to destroy their Aspect or invite destruction through it, as if through its will.
- Alternatively, the purpose of the bard class is to amuse Andrew Hussie.
- Maid: Another support class, along the lines of the seer, but specialized to aid a single other player: the leader. The Maid will have some ability that allows the leader to function as such. For Aradia, this was her timeline management, as discussed by Karkat.
- Alternately, the Maid could responsible for the management of their Aspect — an inversion of the Heir who seems more passively supported by their Aspect.
- Rogue: A combat support class capable of working with any other melee class. Not all that great on its own, but absolutely owns when working with a partner, see Nepeta the best moirall ever.
- Jossed by UU, as she says that a Rogue is basically a support version of the Thief class, in which it steals to help out his/her teammates.
- Muse: A social class, having only subtle influence over events and relying upon trickery and the use of other characters to complete their objectives. The Muse inspires necessary changes without necessarily needing to be aware of what they're actually doing.
- Put simply, even with the Muse dead, their quest can still be completed by their team mates because the Muse is supposed to set the board for others to achieve their goal for them.
- It's different from the Seer because the Seer dispenses information amongst their teammates necessary to achieve a goal, while the Muse simply tricks allies and enemies alike into completing the mission.
- Maid is the passive counterpart to Knight.
- A Knight's role could be defined as "he who protects his aspect", while a Maid is "she who restores her aspect". Alternatively, both could "protect/restore things using their aspect", if we are assuming all classes get that.
- The first piece of evidence is Jane Crocker, the Maid of Life, who has been shown to restore at least one life (her own). Why she didn't do this the second time isn't clear, though the first time it was her dreamself dead, while the second it was the original one. It's not unreasonable to think only dreamselves have powers, at least until some triggering event during the game. Alternatively, plot.
- The other known Maid, Aradia Megido, the Maid of Time, routinely worked by carefully watching what went wrong and going back to fix it. Also, her semi un-official theme song goes about how she has "seen [things go wrong] over and over again", and Karkat repeatedly remarks about how she kept going back to fix their screwups, mostly his own. So much so that they ended up gaining an "Aradiabot Army", without which they "COULD NOT HAVE BEATEN THE KING" (Bard and Thief notwithstanding). Thus she restored the timeline, "after" it had been broken.
- Conversely, we have Dave Strider, the Knight of Time, whose M.O. involved helping himself via stable time loops. He himself remarks that "dead daves are the enemy", while Aradia routinely failed to care about this, despite being more accurately aware of the meaning of doomed copies. (Dave got that quote from Terezi, but that doesn't mean he does not believe it. And it is not impossible that she got it from him, too.) Kanaya also mentions, offhand, that to get the frog breeding in time would require "To Establish Weeks Worth Of Stable Time Loops"; which for her, as based on her perception of the Maid, "It Would Be An Overly Elaborate And Dangerous Undertaking[...]And Anyone Who Would Attempt Such A Thing Is Reckless"; but for Jade, based on her perception of the Knight, was obviously a matter of simply asking. Lastly Karkat, again, remarks that he'd "NEVER SEEN ANYONE EXPLOIT TIME TRAVEL SO SHAMELESSLY AS HIM, NOT EVEN ARADIA". Leaving aside the fact that she's probably the only other time traveller he's met (at that point), Dave is more proactive about what is basically the same task (ensuring the "correct" timeline happens).
- The last one, Karkat Vantas, the Knight of Blood, is also the hardest to adjudicate. There are several indications that he simply failed as a Knight, as anything to do with Blood, as a Leader, and as a Player in general. Or at least, that he thinks so ("EVERY DOUCHE GOT TO FLY BUT ME, EVEN THE CRIPPLE."/"I GAVE YOUR WHOLE UNIVERSE CANCER, JADE. SORRY."/"MY OWN PERSONAL MISTAKES PROBABLY ACCOUNTED FOR MORE DOOMED ARADIABOTS THAN ANYTHING ELSE."/etc.) But it all depends on how we interpret "Blood". Considering Alternian culture, the most obvious choices are "racism" and "violence". Yet if we take the third most likely symbolism of blood, friendship/loyalty/community, it would seem that he did a pretty fine job. Vriska, of all people, is of the opinion that "When it comes down to it, he was pro8a8ly too good a leader! He actually did manage to get the two teams to work together toward the same goal. It could have easily deterior8ed into a feud otherwise", as well as both Terezi and Kanaya later aknowledging that "the others" respect him as a leader. We lack any other confirmed player of Blood, but it seems to fit. He kept the group together, and in doing so "protected" both the group itself and all of them (despite Vriska's theory, descending into a feud wouldn't be likely to result in several God Tiers; it would probably result in the first few hoarding the bodies so the others couldn't come back (and Aradiabots, of course)).
- A Knight's role could be defined as "he who protects his aspect", while a Maid is "she who restores her aspect". Alternatively, both could "protect/restore things using their aspect", if we are assuming all classes get that.
- Or, failing that, then perhaps the order of the sessions is somehow irrelevant- perhaps another attribute of Paradox Space- and the "ancestors" in the Beta session were recalling memories of the not-yet-occurring Alpha session, providing the necessity for only one Scratch.
- Neither of the two known sessions to scratch have demonstrated this capability. Failing some sort of Word of God via UU, we'll never know conclusively either.
- Word of God via Rose seems to suggest that as long as there's a Hero of Time, a session can Scratch as many times as need be, presumably shuffling up players more than just Ancestors and Players switching places.
- Neither of the two known sessions to scratch have demonstrated this capability. Failing some sort of Word of God via UU, we'll never know conclusively either.
- 4 kids = 1 passive + 3 active.
- There's still ambiguity on whether an Heir's role is active or passive.
- Think about it, passive means uses their power to affect their allies, active players have their power affect themselves. John's windy thing only seems to help him.
- The Alpha and Beta kids were always intended to play in a single session. Therefore, 8 players = 4 active + 4 passive. Not to discredit the 4 = 1 + 3.
- Am I the only one who sees the 413?
- There's no indication that their session will create the entire multiverse which is basically what the cycle of Sburb is.
- On the other hand, as of the end of Act 5 they've already created the Green Sun...
- Tentatively jossed by UU
- Alternitively it does not need to be your personal Quest Bed, as long as aspect of the bed and player match up.
- Dream Bubble!Quest Bed same as Physical!Quest Bed.
- Awakened dreamselves can die on a bed in the moon of Prospit or Derse and still god tier, so, half confirmed.
- Blood: The ability to take a lot of hits and not die, AKA super endurance. As a leader, this is good to have. Also recall that when he was stabbed by Jack, he was more concerned with hiding his blood color rather than OH GOD THIS STRANGE MAN HAS SHOWN ME HIS STABS.
- Alternately, it's something to do with his ability to accurately read and deal with interpersonal relationships (blood = family), and getting people to work together (sorta like Terezi's Seer of Mind abiliy, but with a different focus.)
- Possibly the second, not the first. All trolls are Made of Iron and even fairly serious wounds don't bother them.
- Could also have something to do with why Kanaya alone came back to "life" after being kissed without a dreamself ...as a blood-drinking undead creature.
- Seems to be Jossed. IIRC, A 6 I 3 says neither Hero of Blood has used aspect-related abilities.
- Alternately, it's something to do with his ability to accurately read and deal with interpersonal relationships (blood = family), and getting people to work together (sorta like Terezi's Seer of Mind abiliy, but with a different focus.)
- Doom: Whatever Sollux "predicts" happens, whether he actually likes the outcome or not. Not always in his favor, and people will not believe you when you try to tell them.
- Sollux can hear the voice of the soon-to-be-dead warning him of their fates. The role could have something to do with death, ill fortune, or non-Alpha timelines.
- Heart: The ability to empathize, both with enemies and allies alike. The ultimate moirail ability. And of note, a Heart's ability to communicate with beasts is ultimately not the same strength as Tavros' c♉MMUNION, ability.
- UU has indicated that this Aspect has more to do with souls and a sense of identity.
- Void: Being able to create a vacuum of a certain radius around him and being able to survive in any vacuum. As he is very STRONG, Equius will never find a use for this. Certainly not if he stays dead.
- Immune to Fate
- Going to say myself that this is unlikely since it would massively violate all we know about how time and predestination works in Homestuck.
- Less so with John being "unstuck in reality/canon" and his ability to change the Alpha timeline, including changing his changes.
- The first is Jossed by UU. The power of Void is one of concealing or destroying information. It also seems to be intimately tied in with the Horrorterrors or the Furthest Ring since Roxy sleepwalks in dreambubbles and opens portals through the void out there. Rose also displays an info-blocking effect from when she went grimdark until her death and ascension as a Seer.
- Immune to Fate
- Hope: Instilling inspiration in people and bettering their lives in battle or out of it. Now keep in mind what Eridan did that "improved" people's lives.
- Life: Bringing back the dead without the need of a dream self (makes sense when Fef has so many Mary Sue traits as it is). She can also heal wounds and revitalize allies.
- If this was the case, she'd have revived herself instead of staying dead.
- Guess I forgot to mention that reviving yourself is the only thing you can't do... because you're dead, obviously!
- Except that Jane's dreamself did so. Then again, that may be the difference between a Witch and a Maid.
- If this was the case, she'd have revived herself instead of staying dead.
- Rage: The opposite of the Heart ability; causes allies' or enemies' primal instincts to take control and be on the constant Fight mode of the Flight or Fight switch. Simultaneously, one gains tremendous strength and agility,but loses control of one's mental facilities as more of this power is used. Achieveing the God Tiers is HIGHLY NOT SUGGESTED for anyone with a Rage element attached to them. And since Subjuggulators are already very powerful as it is...
- Alternately, keeping in theme with the Bard half of Gamzee's title, he can either instill or quell rage in those around him, depending on his own emotional state. Evidence: he was able to "chill" with the imps instead of fighting them.
- That may have been Gamzee sharing his sopor slime with the enemies, though.
- Which could simply be his "prop" tool, like Rose's crystal ball or Dave's turntables.
- Alternately, keeping in theme with the Bard half of Gamzee's title, he can either instill or quell rage in those around him, depending on his own emotional state. Evidence: he was able to "chill" with the imps instead of fighting them.
- Time: Time's role is to keep the other players alive through fairly obvious means.
- Then again, that may just be the role of the Knight. We do know that they hold the Reset Button, though.
- Breath : The universe is a frog, the kids session is dying, John removes a tumor from skaia and his theme is Doctor. One can assume that Breath's role is to keep the universe alive.
- So he's doing mouth-to-mouth!
- Every session simply needs the players to enter the new universe so that they can make sure the species that will participate in the next one survives. Trolls eventually came to be the dominant species of the universe, and the Lusii became their guardians. This is why Lusii are assigned to each troll as a custodian. In relation to this, the trolls are supposed to make sure the humans survive their session: even though they were never able to enter their universe, there are various labs placed on asteroids so that they may somehow communicate with them and help them.
It's pretty clear that the Troll's horns are intended to reflect their respective symbols, not all of them are easy to understand such as how do Karkat's nubby horns relate to a crab or how do Vriska's relate to a spider (a stinger and pincer even though her version of scorpio is a spider?) however it has become pretty clear that Andrew has intended this from the begining as early as the first character introductions.
- Dave's hair is a bird, this is simply fact. It has always been a bird, think of how far in the story that has any relevance at all.
- John's hair is a jester hat, that should be obvious.
- Jade has dog ears. This troper first noticed it with Jadesprite however Jade's hair does look like dog ears.
- Rose is a little better hidden but again we were trolled. Rose is a cat, look at Rose's face at her big jump here and then look at Jaspersprite's head a frame later it's a perfect silioute.
The significance of the item/tasks of entry.
- John's item task was to take a bite of an apple.
- Rose's item task was to break a wine bottle.
- Dave's item task was to allow an egg to hatch.
- Which he almost failed due to his impatience. Though that may be the symbol of the item, as soon as he stopped trying to force his time powers dead Daves stopped stacking up.
- The egg hatches as Bro cuts a meteor in half is that not symbolic enough?
- Jade's item task was to blindly shoot a pinata of her guardian.
- Jack and Bec are now one being sort of, the symbolisim is fairly obvious in this case.
- Hussie actually discussed the symbolism of all of the entry items on his old Formspring account. John's was just symbolic. Rose's required a leap of faith and reliance on a friend. Dave's required patience. Jade's required her to both put down her dangerous dog and put (blind) trust in herself and him.
Think of it as an afterlife for everyone else. Since the Gods of the Furthest Ring provide an afterlife for players or anyone important via dreambubble, Fridge Horror may ensue in that it means that anyone not playing or will not affect the game at all just vanish. They have to go somewhere, right? Plus, at least they'll serve a purpose this way. Instead of just being erased from existence or out of skaiaNET's database, they now fuel the Green Sun. And besides, there's a surplus amount of them from all the other sessions of the S-series.
This also means that to destroy the Green Sun would also mean to dispel all the lost souls. Alternatively, it means He who destroys the Green Sun also finishes off two or more entire universes' worth of Cannon Fodder.
- I think I may be going out on a really improbable limb here, but I'm starting to think Doc Scratch lives on it, as exemplified here(?), as the whole "destroy the Green Sun" thing would also destroy him in the process. Perhaps he was a guardian of the non-player characters, or unplayers? I don't know, honestly.
- Doc lives on one of Alternia's moons. It's shown during his introduction.
- Sorry for the confusion, then.
- Alternate theory: When the Green Sun explodes,it will send all inside into overdrive, causing them to have one final yell, their loudest and hardest yet- a mixed scream shared by the cannon fodder of two or more universes- which causes a final, large blast of energy, enough to destroy many universes, and allowing for many more to take their places. This will be known as "The Vast Green", as it will be the last thing another universe sees before all goes black. (What results may or may not be enough to create another Green Sun, eventually.)
- Kind of sort of maybe Confirmed? Well, here it says that the Tumor contained two universes, thus in a sense meaning that the green sun is also made of two universes, meaning that your opening statement is correct. The soul-fuel thing, however, is kind of ambiguous.
- Alternately, the dinosaurs had their own version of Sburb, complete with their own day of Reckoning.
- Stars run on fusion, not fission. Fission doesn't provide enough energy and can't be done with lighter elements, as uranium and the like aren't that common in space.
- That It Hasnt Collapsed Upon Itself Into A Tiny Lavender Singularity Is The Most Striking Marvel Paradox Space Has Coughed Up Yet (see Alien Geometries, Eldritch Location, Functional Magic, Hyperspace Is a Scary Place).
- Still doesn't change the fact that stars use fusion not fission. However Andrew apparently knows about as much about astronomy as he does biology given that the Green Sun is also twice the size of a universe, so I concede that in canon it's likely
- But the Green Sun is outside any universe, so a star with a mass twice the universe's is entirely possible, along with uranium getting involved in nuclear FUSION...
- That's like inflating your body to the size of the galaxy; there's simply no way it would logically remain stable. What seems to be the case most likely is that the Sun is not really a Sun so much as a quasi-magical force of spatial energy underpinning the Multiverse.
- You mean sort of like the frog large enough to contain a universe?
- Remember that the object being discussed can somehow exist in the absence of anything to exist in, as it's outside any universe. After that point further physics violations become rather elementary.
- The Green Sun was also made from the combined explosion of two universes, and presumably that's what's fueling it (it's like a contained big bang). And in a sense, that could be driven by fission (all the elements and mass of the universes are being broken down by the explosion vortex, aka 'sun').
- This really does seem to be one of the author's goals. He's made a furry and a juggalo beloved characters despite their being much-hated internet targets. Even the Token Evil Teammate gC is pretty lovable, in a sick and twisted sort of way.
- What are you talking about? gC (Terezi Pyrope) isn't at all evil. Not in the slightest bit (in context at least).
- Except that part where she sent John to his death knowing full well that he had no chance because of her powers as the seer of mind but yes she ment well and is utterly adorable in a slightly disturbing way.
- Future has Vriska and Snowman say hi.
- Vriska had what can best be described as a cannibal single parent, so it wasn't exactly easy for her growing up; and she's still kind of remorseful for everything she had to do. Snowman, on the other hand, has no such saving grace... yet...
- Vriska was partially a deliberate attempt to enrage the fandom so that Andrew could essentially see what happens. So in this event, yes Vriska was designed by Andrew to be dubbed a Scrappy.
- It probably says something that even a character specifically designed to be a Scrappy (universally hated) ended up being a Base-Breaking Character instead.
- What are you talking about? gC (Terezi Pyrope) isn't at all evil. Not in the slightest bit (in context at least).
- It still doesn't explain Eridan, though.
- Seriously he has has his fans (and double that for his March form) but does he have any redeeming values at all?
- When he's not ruining everything, his antics are hysterical.
- Eridan was pretty much a villain, or something very close to it. Disliking villains doesn't reallt make them into scrappys
- What about when the villain is a Scrappy?
- Seriously he has has his fans (and double that for his March form) but does he have any redeeming values at all?
- Even the Wayward Vagabond?
- He made Can Town. I think that qualifies.
- Well, "clinically" may not suit him. Or maybe he's a hallucination
- He made Can Town. I think that qualifies.
- It may not be too long before this is actually true. The Warweary Villein witnessed his army get slaughtered in seconds; Jack Noir has seemingly gone on a berserk rampage; gallowsCalibrator seems to have lost it, and with their impending doom, the other trolls may follow; Mom has seemed somewhat unhinged throughout the story; Davesprite is from an alternate future where John and Jade were dead; John has had a Heroic BSoD twice, found out that he has a Room Full of Crazy, and created himself and his friends through ectobiology; Rose fused with a dream self from the aforementioned alternate future, and has Lovecraftian horrors talking to her; Dave threw his own corpse out the window, then just stared at his hands for ten minutes; Jade taxidermied her own grandfather before the story started, and now her dream self has died; and sooner or later it's going to sink in that pretty much everyone the kids ever knew, except the kids themselves and their guardians, is DEAD.
- IMO, Rose doesn't look like she's snapped... but she (and Dave) cares more about self-image than John or Jade, so it'll take longer to show if she really has.
- Nobody can be clinically insane if there are no clinics
- IMO, Rose doesn't look like she's snapped... but she (and Dave) cares more about self-image than John or Jade, so it'll take longer to show if she really has.
- May not be every character, but it is interesting to note that Wikipedia lists 12 currently accepted personality disorders. It doesn't require too much in the way of mental acrobatics to assign one to each.
- And sincerely, some of the trolls are genuinely insane. Gamzee and Eridan, and Vriska to an extent. There Are No Therapists on Alternia. As for some of the other examples, WV has the intellect of approximately a 2nd grader and the others are showing stress pretty blatantly. This WMG hits on one of the underlying themes of Homestuck. Look out for more of this as we proceed probably.
- WV understands paradoxes and nuclear energy. He seems pretty intelligent.
- Definitely being called back to more with Act 6.
- What about Tavros? He's just insecure. Also, Calliope is definitely sane.
- Tarvos "adiosToreador" Nitram's first chat with Jade gave him some woobie potential, or enough to make him an example of the trope on the character page. Act Five has him becoming an even better example of a woobie to tearjerking. It's a little suspicious, to say the least, and makes you wonder if Andrew was browsing the Homestuck character page as well.
- He does not. He does like the concept of TV Tropes but feels in it's execution we miss the point of the work in favor of categorizing and filing everything about it.
- Is that not the point of the work? To locate, identify and sort all repeated memes throughout history? Surely Hussie can appreciate this after all some of his fanbase has actually resorted to spread sheets to sort all character information, events and callbacks.
- Okay he clearly does, he has used a Tv Tropes page as evidence in his formspring ownage sessions on more than one occasion and we can safely assume he has at least skimmed the Homestuck page which is like what 97% of all the tropes ever?
- Let me rephrase the point above. He may read it on occasion but still to this troper's knowledge he doesn't especially like it.
- He does not. He does like the concept of TV Tropes but feels in it's execution we miss the point of the work in favor of categorizing and filing everything about it.
- Maybe not the best example. What would be the point in going back to the past from a doomed time line if you weren't going to warn people about what caused the timeline you come from? Davesprite did the same.
- Thief (-) v. Rogue (+): Theft of Aspect (as stated by UU)
- Heir (-) v. Prince (+): authority over Aspect? (conceptually linked via inheritance) (Jossed.)
- Knight (-) v. Page (+): protection with Aspect?
- Witch (-) v. Sylph (+): manipulation of Aspect?
- Mage (-) v. Seer (+): knowledge of Aspect? (conceptually linked due to Sollux's visions of doom)
- Bard (?) v. Maid (?): ??? (no real link; just the left-overs that don't fit anywhere else) (Jossed.)
- Heir (-) v. Maid (+): protected by Aspect?
UU Said that Prince and Bard are opposites. So:
- Prince(-) v. Bard(+): destruction of/by the Aspect
- Heir(?) v. Maid(?): care for/by the Aspect?
- Based on how John used it, I'm going to guess that Heir is the active(-) member of the pair.
- And based on Aradia (and the leading theories regarding Jane), Maid is more than likely a passive class as well.
- Based on how John used it, I'm going to guess that Heir is the active(-) member of the pair.
- Exclusively male: Knight (Dave, Karkat), Page (Tavros, Jake), Prince (Eridan, Dirk)
- Mostly male: Mage (Sollux), Bard (Gamzee), Heir (John, Equius)
- Mostly female: Thief (Vriska), Rogue (Nepeta, Roxy), Seer (Rose, Terezi)
- Exclusively female: Witch (Jade, Feferi), Maid (Aradia, Jane), Sylph (Kanaya)
Later confirmation/denial:
- UU Said that Bards are exclusively male, so Pages are probably mostly male.
- I'd personally guess that Knights are the "mostly" male ones due to Joan of Arc type figures.
- [S] ACT 6 INTERMISSION 3 has shown us a male Seer and a female Knight, which means that Knights are, in fact, mostly male instead of exclusively male.
Updating the table with newer information we get this:
- Exclusively male: Heir (John, Equius, Mituna), Bard (Gamzee, Cronus), Prince (Eridan, Dirk, Kurloz), Lord (Caliborn)
- Mostly male: Knight (Dave, Karkat, Latula), Page (Tavros, Jake, Horuss), Mage (Sollux, Meulin)
- Mostly female: Thief (Vriska, Meenah), Rogue (Nepeta, Roxy, Rufioh), Seer (Rose, Terezi, Kankri)
- Exclusively female: Maid (Aradia, Jane, Porrim), Witch (Jade, Feferi, Damara), Sylph (Kanaya, Aranea), Muse (Calliope)
Notice that if we exclude Caliborn and Calliope there are eight characters in each category and, if we assume that the above WMG on passive and active classes is correct, each category get it's own pair of classes in addition to one class with it's counterpart in the opposite category (Mage-Seer in the "mostly"-categories and Heir-Maid in the "exclusive"-categories).
- Probably not going to happen since the BARK code exists as a substitute. We'll have to wait and see where it comes from.
- Come to think of it, if Jane is the heir of the company, why does she live in the same ordinary house in Maple Valley, WA that John lived in?
- Although he had loyalty to Jade, he was also loyal to Grandpa Harley, and probably for more years that he was to Jade. Halley was Grandpa's dog first, and he had Bec before he ever found Jade. Plus, we see that Bec sleeps at the feet of stuffed Grandpa.
- Bec never knew Grandpa as a child though, so it's dubious if he would recognize Jake as him.
- Karkat has specifically said this is the plan; though they're entering after the session is somewhat established.
- It's unknown at this point if John and Jade will reach the Medium before Jane, but it seems unlikely.
- Prospit and its Dreamers are situated towards, influenced by, and allied with Skaia; the entity which propagates realities. The Inhabitants of Prospit work directly to protect Skaia and aid the consorts who in turn aid the Heroes in their quest to create a new universe. Skaia even gives Prospit Dreamers “hints” via the Dream clouds to improve their chances of winning, and if the trolls are any indication, somehow renders Prospit dreamers highly suspicious of the Horrorterrors and their advice.
- Derse and its Dreamers are situated towards, influenced by, and allied with the Horrorterrors of the Furthest Ring in opposition to Skaia. The inhabitants of Derse work directly to prevent the successful completion of the game, and thus the creation of a new universe, the royalty of Derse hate frogs because they represent/become new universes, and via Rose's story arc we know that the Horrorterrors were actively advising her to break her session, and that if directly contacted, they can hijack one of the Heroes (though the extent to which they can override their will remains unclear). Thus, Prospit is Reality’s “Side” in the game, and Derse is the Horrorterrors’ “Side” in the game.
- One objection to this is that Derse Dreamers still work to win the game, but this is deceptive, remember; Skaia gets to choose the players. The purpose of the Derse Dreamers is still to win the game as that is what Skaia created and timelooped them to do in the first place, however, Skaia allows the Horrorterrors the chance to influence half of the players so they have a chance to break the session and prevent a genesis. Why give them this chance? To maintain balance between reality and non-reality. The proliferation of realities “uses up” the Furthest Ring, thereby killing Horrorterrors and destroying their habitat.
- Furthermore, players can work at cross purposes to what Skaia wants, just look at Vriska, Rose, and Gamzee, all of whom get derailed and endanger their team. Word of God is that the Derse Dreamers are allowed to live because of the chance they can be converted by the Black Royalty.
- One objection to this is that Derse Dreamers still work to win the game, but this is deceptive, remember; Skaia gets to choose the players. The purpose of the Derse Dreamers is still to win the game as that is what Skaia created and timelooped them to do in the first place, however, Skaia allows the Horrorterrors the chance to influence half of the players so they have a chance to break the session and prevent a genesis. Why give them this chance? To maintain balance between reality and non-reality. The proliferation of realities “uses up” the Furthest Ring, thereby killing Horrorterrors and destroying their habitat.
- Denizens seemingly are the counterparts to players in terms of being loosely allied with Derse but seemingly independent as well. This WMG also makes sense in light of several other things, like Doc Scratch referring to sessions as "bargains" and the fact that in chess, the pieces need to be moved by someone, making Skaia and the Horrorterrors the actual players of the game.
- The information given so far regarding Sburb is that it allows the creation of new universes and destroys the home planet of the players, but not that it destroys their home universe; in fact, the re-population of said home-worlds by the Exiles implies Sburb is meant to leave parent universes intact. The Horrorterrors live in the Furthest Ring, and Sburb sessions apparently take place surrounded by it. In what way could their slaughter and the propagation of universes be related? Perhaps because the creation of universes kills them and depletes their habitat, which doubles as the material from which realities are created. However, if this is the natural way universes are made, then obviously the natural non-glitched sessions must succeed at a rate that maintains equilibrium, otherwise -within a plane where past, present, and future exist all at once- this collapse would have already occurred.
- That's where Lord English comes in. What do we know about English? We know he "eats" universes; that his servant Doc Scratch draws its power from the Green Sun; that the Green Sun is created by destroying both the Troll post-scratch universe, and the Human pre-Scratch universe; and that Lord English is birthed from Doc Scratch. We know that English glitches sessions, makes them cancerous and forces their players to abandon them via Scratching, that the cancer within the session then prematurely destroys the associated universe as well as its parent universe, and that this creates a Green Sun. He then enters the now abandoned null session universes at the moment of their destruction, sends a "representative" along to the new post-scratch session, and eats the abandoned universes/Green Sun along their entire timelines. He cuts short a universe's "life-span", then infects a new session to complete the process again. Lord English, a being that eats realities, is in effect slash-and-burn farming the Furthest Ring, thereby slaughtering Horrorterrors and endangering the propagation of realities.
- Highly unlikely in specifics. We know Lord English ate the post-Scratch troll session, but sent the Condesce to the post-Scratch kids session, and there is nothing to suggest that there's more than the one Green Sun (Rose even points out how unique the circumstance is). Lord English is likely to be what's killing the horrorterrors, but that appears to be by destroying dreambubbles.
- Jossed, sort of. The dead trolls become the Alpha kids' sprites.
- It definitely seems each Alpha corresponds to a troll, at least in regard to their aspects. But reincarnation doesn't seem possible given the comic's cosmology.
- Karkat has said that when he gave the children's session the cancer, it manifested itself as Jack Noir. The trolls session itself also had Jack Noir - and it can be assumed that each session before theirs had Jack as well. Even though in their session Jack Noir never grew into the unstoppable juggernaut that he is in the human's session, he is still there (Plus, the unstoppable juggernaut Jack did catch them eventually). Maybe the trolls session also had the cancer, as well as all the sessions before them, which is what leads to the creation of Sburb itself each time.
- Note that Karkat has said that the cancer is possibly what led to the kid's session being uncompletable. If the trolls session had the cancer, it would be assumed that their session is uncompletable as well, explaining why Bec Noir came and prevented them from claiming the prize and finishing the session.
- Each session is flawed in some way, as there is always a way for English to get into the Universe. In the Alpha-Troll session, English and Doc were not able to, so they couldn't complete the game. In a sense, every session has some form of the Cancer, otherwise it's impossible for a session to win.
- Act 6 Intermission 2 will be relatively brief. It may reference the actual Intermission 2 by including Lord English somehow. The big Homestuck three year anniversary will probably happen during the Intermission, or at the beginning of...
- The "including Lord English" part is confirmed as of his sudden appearance in Hussie's sudio.
- Act 6 Act 3. This will probably be the point where most of the characters enter the Medium, or where there will be some shocking revelation that will change what we thought we knew.
- Since Act 6 Act 2 ended with Jane's entrance, it's highly probable the rest will enter in this act as predicted. However, A6A2 seems to have already covered the "shocking revelation that will change what we thought we knew" part with its Flash ending...
- The final flash of the Act presumably has everyone entering, though Jake's entry actually is everyone's entry, and Jane's second entry. It's complicated.
- Act 6 Intermission 3, being set between Act 6 Act 3 and Act 6 Act 4, will be a Call-Back to the Midnight Crew Intermission. It will probably involve carapaces somehow.
- Jossed
- Act 6 Act 4 will have the ectobiology, and will also have something that screws the Alpha Session more than it already is.
- Jossed, it's a single flash.
- Act 6 Intermission 4, being between Act 4 and Act 5, will probably relate to the Trolls in some way (think of Act 5 Act 1 as a Troll Intermission between Act 4 and Act 5).
- Jossed, it's about Caliborn, although you could argue that the cherubs are the "trolls" of Act 6.
- Act 6 Act 5 and Act 6 Intermission 5 will probably culminate in the Beta Kids entering the Alpha Universe.
- Act 6 Act 6 will be the grand finale. Hussie has stated there won't be a big final boss battle, but this troper think there will be something interactive - maybe like a playable RPG battle.
- Ultimately, the retcons meant the grand finale got essentially squashed into A 6 A 6 I 5 and following. And any comments about there not being any sort of big boss battle were arguably disproven by Collide for anyone other than Lord English himself.
- All of this mostly Confirmed, in that the Act 6 sub-acts all mirrored the rest of the story:
- Act 6 Act 1 introduced the first two characters, and ended with one seemingly killed in an explosion; Act 6 Act 2 and Act 6 Act 3 were getting all of the kids into the game; followed by an Intermission with a load of new characters with... questionable plot-relevance; Act 6 Act 4 had all of the kids in the Medium; Act 6 Act 5 was longer, split into two sub-acts (with Act 6 Act 5 Act 2 being divisive the way Act 5 Act 1 was), and had pretty much everything going to shit; and Act 6 Act 6 mirrored Act 6 itself, with another six SUB-sub-acts and sub-act-intermissions. Thankfully A6A6A6 did not continue this trend.
And as Word of God stated, Act 7 will be one big epilogue. This troper also thinks there might be an epilogue after the epilogue (which be explicitly called the Epilogue, much like Problem Sleuth's Epilogue.).
- Act 7 turned out to be more of a coda to the grand finale... but if Hussie's comments afterward can be taken at face value, the notion of a PS-esque epilogue may well be confirmed!
- Jossed. It actually ends with the creation of a new universe, and the potential defeat of Lord English.
- Although Hussie's newspost "edit" afterwards suggests we ARE getting more content where this could happen.
- This means that Jade will ALSO become a host for Lord English should she happen to die, as she's prototyped/God Tier'd with Bec.
- It also explains why Jadesprite wanted to die; it was an instinctual desire to summon Lord English.
- Jade's outside the Human Universe which is already destroyed with no way for English to seemingly enter, and unless the Scratch truly did reset the Human Universe and Jade somehow goes back there, she also has no way to get to Earth's past (But in that scenario there would be a new First Guardian anyways). If he were going to enter via someone with First Guardian powers at the end of the Universe, logic dictates that he would've used the dying WV or PM via the White Ring. Moreover Jade has powers beyond a First Guardian, and would probably be able to resist English.
- Again the first guardians aren't automatically the hosts of Lord English. It's the cueballs used in their creation.
- Cueballs were only used in Doc Scratch's creation.
- It is implied by Aradia that the difference between a guardian that serves English or not is the honkHONK wildcard.
- Possibly true, after a fashion; Rufioh seems to suggest that Damara wants to work for Lord English herself.
- The kids' universe was still marked for destruction, though.
- Jossed... Kinda? Vriska from the timeline where she was killed by Terezi is the one to unleash the Ultimate Weapon, after God Tier Calliope drains the Green Sun into a black hole to reduce Lord English's powers. Said weapon houses the souls of the Beta kids, however. And even then, Dave does strike down Jack English, so close enough?
- Then there's the fact that the code to awaken Lord English is in the Furthest Ring.
- Wasn't Feferi's lusus one of those?...which means the black king was even stronger...and they killed him...
- Wasn't Feferi's lusus more of an ambassador from the horrorterrors than one of them?
- The real question is, if Lord English is Skipper Plumbthroat, does that mean Lord English suffers from crippling depression?
- This would mirror [S] Frigglish: Fast forward to Jaspersprite, somewhat.
- Oddly, although we did get a mirror of that previous flash, not only did it not play out in the way suggested, it actually seems to kind of contradict that previous page.
- Act 6 Intermission 4 seems to imply Hussie's house and all the Act Curtains are located on the Post-Scratch Earth.
- It's warning us about the double helix in DNA (which resembles a spiral staircase), fitting with the genetic theme of the series. To take this a step further, the Caduceus that symbolizes UU and uu (which are the only characters so far whose initials are derived from RNA, not DNA) resembles a double helix, which comments on the duality of their personalities. Even further, the Caduceus is the staff of Hermes, messenger of the gods in Greek mythology. RNA by nature acts as a messenger and transcriber for DNA. It's very possible that UU and uu are pivotal in the creation of the universe in a similar fashion to Karkat (to whom they also have a connection to, but I'm sure that's touched on elsewhere). Likewise, they could simply act as messengers for DNA-themed characters like the other trolls and kids— possibly alternate versions or new characters entirely.
- Depending on just how necessary First Guardians are to the game, our characters creation of the Green Sun may indicate a connection with Sburb's orgin.
Any Guesses?
- Hussie.
- Naah, that'd be too obvious.
- Lil' Cal?
- It's Paradox Space. In the pool metaphor, English is the player as he is the cue stick. In the chess metaphor, Skaia and the Horrorterrors are the players, as they advise and virtually control Derse and Prospit. The video game metaphor has the direct players and probably the Denizens as well. And above all of them is their immutable fate, ie, Paradox Space.
- But what about the Card metaphor? Does Paradox Space "deal out" who the exiles will be, who comes into the game and who doesn't?
- The Card metaphor probably has no overarching leader. Most rules for poker have the dealer move around.
- P-Space interpretation more or less confirmed by Aranea.
- Gamzee
- His (that is, Caliborn's) Denizen, Yaldabaoth. He's named after the Gnostic Demiurge, he's the Denizen of Earth when it enters the Cherub Session, Cherubim are among the highest-ranked angels in the Christian angelic hierarchy,...and he's going to be the one responsible for putting Caliborn into his Land after he makes The Choice. What if Yaldabaoth gives Caliborn The Choice to either die or do whatever he tells him to do when he becomes Lord English? What if Yaldabaoth is Homestuck's representation of YHWH, and that after the heroes are done with LE, they'll have to go after the one responsible for his power?
- The reader. They're gonna defeat Lord English and everyone else. Some time later, there will be last page entitled The End, someone is gonna realise what's happening and they're gonna try t
- Nah. G Cat only met a dead Jade, and that was for a First Guardian showdown... that promptly bombed and turned into a chase with Bec Noir and PM.
- How? There's no conceivable way that it could be used "against her"; it was a simple bit of exposition about Jake and not some massive plot revelation that Jade is ashamed of. And at any rate, Alpha timeline Eridan has never been seen in any dreambubble at all.
- Not sure what's meant by "Alpha timeline Eridan", but if you mean the one we're familiar with, we did see him early in A 6 I 2...
- That's an alternate timeline Eridan who went God Tier. The Alpha or Main timeline Eridan who killed Feferi and Kanaya hasn't been seen at all or referred to once since his death.
- I was thinking about the pre- or post-Scratch distinction. All the terms Homestuckers throw around is getting confusing.
- Not sure what's meant by "Alpha timeline Eridan", but if you mean the one we're familiar with, we did see him early in A 6 I 2...
- Maybe that is why Lord English is indestructible. The First Guardians and the people they control will think of every possible outcome. So even if you have the power to kill him, he has such a vast influence that nobody is destined to ever kill him. The only way to kill Lord English is to work outside of your fate somehow.
- END OF YEAR 3
4/13/2009 - 4/13/2012
- Unless this was posted before Hussie announced A 6 A 3 would start on 4/13, this isn't even a prediction. Rather, this is the extent of what we can reasonably expect from the start of A 6 A 3.
- Well, that was the plan. Instead, Hussie published a series of pages containing the "END OF YEAR 3" text, and only after those came Myststuck. note
- Jack pretty obviously did it For the Evulz with maybe a minor aspect of Bring News Back.
- I wouldn't say that makes her a "good guy", more or less just...Enemy Mine.
- Also You Can't Fight Fate.
- Update: Dirk's conversation with Jake seems to confirm that the Condesce isn't particularly happy about working for Lord English, and Meenah suggests she might not even be all that happy about ruling (though her reaction to the Condesce's story suggests otherwise), and that she might have some twisted form of heroism in her (killing all the pre-Scratch trolls so they'd live on as ghosts).
- Meenah's plan to raise an army to go after Lord English puts more fuel on this fire.
- Sorta confirmed. The Condesce is trying to help everyone beat the game... so she can claim the ultimate reward for herself.
- Um... confirmed or jossed? What she did didn't exactly look like help...
- First part Confirmed, but the second part is Jossed. they do share it with Calliope, as well, though.
- The way players are created ectobiologically lends some doubt to this. Rose and Dave can just as easily be said to be descended from each other's Guardians; same with John and Jade.
- The term Guardian is something that the fans made up. It's not extremely significant that John was raised by Nanna's son, who is actually Jade's parallel.
- Typically, they do have the same aspect, except in Void sessions, which have no chance of ever completing the game by themselves. People can escape a scratch as a failsafe to fix a void session, and a void session instinctively gives its players new aspects to avoid repeats. Also of note, a void session will never have a time or space player, two aspects we keep being told are required for a session. Because they will get a space or time player.
- Whatever this is, it is Jossed (Not the WMG, just this bullet point). Normal Void sessions may very well have a Time or Space player; we haven't seen any. The escape from the Scratch was a unique thing for the Human Session; Rose and Doc Scratch have implied that no other session ever has escaped a Scratch. To say that it's what happens normally for a Void session is ridiculous.
- It was from the Condesce who very well could've done that exactly.
- This WMG supposes that Calliope/uu are going to become Lord English. Assuming that's true, Lord English (via the The Condesce) is making sure that the kids win. For example the Condesce had the void Skaia blown up to make way for the 4x prototyped Skaia Jade is bringing.
- Given that everything that's gone wrong in Homestuck is implied to be a result of the cancer Karkat created, this is possible since that connects the cancer to Lord English. That and Lil Cal.
- God, I love your theory.
- Jossed. As far as I'm aware, Hussie has never made a comment like that. While that is a very popular theory, he has yet to comment on it's validity as of yet, due to wanting to keep Doom, Hope, and Blood mysterious elements for the moment.
- Actually, he has made such a statement on his tumblr, stating that a session without a Time or Space player is essentially "Doom"ed.
- In fact, he never has made such a statement on tumblr. A quick cursory look over the questions reveals Doom has never been discussed, outside the concept of doomed timelines. Moreover the use of the word doomed alone isn't enough isn't enough to justify the WMG, due to it being used a lot for other things, like doomed timelines.
- Actually, he has made such a statement on his tumblr, stating that a session without a Time or Space player is essentially "Doom"ed.
- Ignore my theory, a fan adventure already has this premise, sans song.
- Does anyone has a link? I need to read this as soon as possible. This sounds wonderful.
Calliope IS Skaia. They are the same thing.
- One niggling little problem: It was stated that until the game we saw, Calliope was undefeated against Caliborn.
- Yes, and? What about it? That doesn't mean they didn't come to draws. They've been in stalemate the entire time in everything, afterall.
- Probably Jossed as of Roxy's dream and Aradia's exposition.
Lord English seems to ignore sessions that do not reproduce, which is consistent with an STD.
Lord English has been strongly implied to be undyingUmbrage. The cherubs substitute U for T, and retroviri use RNA in place of DNA. Lord English also appeared because the honkHONK code was added to Doc Scratch's genetic code, which fits with how retroviri work. Also, every time Lord English does something villainous, he crosses between universes (first he entered Hussie's study, then he entered a dream bubble), fitting with a virus; and at least three Heroes (Damara, Kurloz, and Gamzee) are willing collaborators with him, fitting with a retrovirus or a disease that subverts the infected's immune system.
- One problem with your premise is that Lord English targets all universes indiscriminately; he's attacking the Alpha Kids' session, even though it's a Void Session.
- Well since the Beta kids are coming...
- he wants that us all to keep it real about............................. AIDS◊
Specifically, Uranian Umbra is playing Derse and undyingUmbrage is playing Prospit.
Once you set aside the assumptions of who are the 'good guys' and who are the 'bad guys', a lot of their quotes take on new meaning. Like how UU keeps telling uu that he has "never won a game" (Prospit has never beaten Derse) and later, uu tells UU that she is always "decorating her pieces, giving them horns, names, and castes" (a possible reference to the underling monsters, who are sided with Derse, have multiple types, and transform significantly as a result of the prototyping). Hussie also seemed to want to hide who was playing which side, making the two sides green and red instead of black and white, as would be expected.
Most likely, Prospit will win in the end by fooling Derse into attacking their queen in place of the king at some point, buying time for the heroes to take out the Black King. It is also probable that each of the pieces represents one of the characters (there are certainly enough to go around) and may represent either the way the final battle plays out, or foreshadow the deaths during a more lengthy plot arc. Why uu, who is presumably Lord English, should be guiding the 'good guys' remains to be seen. It also implies that whoever is controlling Derse will...not take their defeat lightly, possibly leading to major cosmic implications...
- A possible hole I see here is that Prospit is associated with Green, and Derse with Red. And Calliope and Caliborn are respectively Prospit and Derse dreamers.
- Also, Derse has to defeat Prospit and start the Reckoning, in order for the players of that session to be born to begin with. And the post-Scratch kids session is more a continuation of the pre-Scratch one than a session of its own, so it's not really an exception.
- the post-Scratch session has no proper reckoning for all we know, so it might as well be that the whole chess game is turned upside down in one way or another
- ...Uh...we already know the Mirthful Messiahs were Lord English and Doctor Scratch.
- Which actually makes this half true, since Caliborn is Lord English.
Hussie's tumblr post on the recap of Cascade hinted that something interesting went on when Rose and Dave reached God Tier. If the standard "die on your Quest Bed" rules applied, then the two of them would have reached God Tier when the Tumor exploded. This kind of self-sacrifice is definitely Heroic, which would have then instantly killed them in their God forms as well. You could make the argument that the explosion would have caused them to go God Tier, and then getting stuck in the center of the Green Sun wouldn't have counted as anything Heroic enough to kill them. However, considering that Hussie tells us outright to "speculate" on this event, there is obviously something more going on here.
Only three people who have reached God Tier with the "Quest Slabs in Derse's Center" method, and all three occurences involved the Green Sun's energy in some way. Aradia, who was dead on her Quest Slab already, only awakened in her God Tier outfit after Bec Noir's green fire started burning her. This linkage shows with Rose and Dave as well, since they only hit God Tier after being killed in the Green Sun's explosion.
Presumably, this method of going God Tier would grant them invulnerability from the Green Sun's energies. This explains why Rose and Dave were able to escape the Green Sun without getting killed Heroically. Sburb might have included a drawback to this kind of God Tier method in order to nerf that invulnerability. Maybe their God Tier powers are linked to the sun in some way?
Whatever the case, Lord English currently has a scepter with a model of the Green Sun on top of it. Presumably, he it heavily linked to it in some way. Perhaps he reached God Tier in this manner? Or maybe he has control of the Green Sun in some way, which could very well mean that Jade, Jack, maybe Rose and Dave, and anyone else who runs off of the Green Sun's energy is probably screwed.
- It seems like a bit of a stretch to apply this to Roxy and Dirk, and in any case the alpha kids seemed to think it would work if they offed each other.
- There another thing that is apply to all "core questbed" cases, Roxy, Dirk, Jake and Jane included. Moon/planet destruction. This could be a coincidence, but also this could be a necessary condition and energy source (Skaia isn't awaliable, so there should be another energy source) to provide God Tier. Also, this could explain why Condesce blast Derse moon. And explain why Aradia could gain God Tier only after Derse destruction (if her dreamself work same way as other's dreamselfs, it should be dead, but it isn't clear is it really dead or just in some sort of coma).
It is never really explained why trolls would enjoy raising fiduspawn, as the fiduspawn don't seem to provide any benefit for the trolls. It is likewise never explained what lusii get out of the lusus-troll relationship (we are only told that the troll acts as 'a kind of zookeeper', but this would hardly seem to be beneficial for the lusus' survival). Moreover, while lusii have many different shapes and abilities, they all have some things in common: symbiotic relationship with trolls and pure white color, almost as if they are members of a single species with many possible shapes.
Originally, the process went like this: the lusus raises the troll, and lays eggs from which fiduspawn hatch. The troll raises the fiduspawn, which goes through several stages of hatching, infecting creatures that the troll picks out, growing, and laying new eggs. With each new hatching and infection process, the fiduspawn takes on some of the characteristics of the creature it infects (something like xenomorphs). The troll, in exchange for the lusus' protection, oversees this process until the final stage of the fiduspawn emerges as a full-grown lusus, whose form was determined based on the series of creatures it infected in earlier cycles (the troll ensures that it infects creatures that will give it the best possible characteristics). Only at some point, trolls figured out that they can fool this process by giving the fiduspawn dolls to infect instead of real creatures, thus turning the whole thing into a game, which they enjoy playing due to a remnant of their original instinct. The lusii go on protecting the trolls anyway because they aren't that smart.
- Sort of explains how The Sufferer's followers would have created Crabdad.
- Uhhh...'abandoning' universes is itself extremely unusual in the operation of Sburb.
- Sorta confirmed by Aradia's exposition.
- Maybe the reason Calliope is supposed to be capable of killing Lord English is because she is capable of making him feel remorse, which would allow him to be killed through a just death.
- See above. Hussie has implied the standards for a heroic or just death are more objective than that.
- Does destroying your Heroric/Just clock with Crowbar's crowbar count as becoming immortal?
- Today's updates seem to joss this, because Jade can talk in her GRIMBARK mode. Maybe The Batterwitch can control humans better than the Serkets?
- Fully Jossed. Before John retconned the timeline, it was Jake who de-grimbarkified Jade.
- PM resembles Bec, possibly retained his loyalty and is on an equal power level with Jade. Hopefully, The Power of Love will be able to save Jade from The Batterwitch (who hopefully won't decide to brainwash PM too).
- Jake's Hope God-Tier powers will finally activate and he will decide that if he believes that Jade and Jane can become good again, they will. He will overpower Crocker's corruption and save them both. After all, remember the things Jake said about hope:GT: Hope to me is all about believing in stuff.GT: If you believe in stuff then everything feels like its going to turn out ok.GT: And if you believe in stuff with enough gusto i dare say it imbues that stuff with a pinch more chutzpah. Even the fake stuff!GT: And then if you keep an open mind and adventurous spirit, that chutzpah flows directly into your heart, and thats when YOU have the power.GT: So i think if hope grants one the power to smite villainy and vanquish hooligans thats probably where it comes from!
...
- GT: Oh also, friendship is a HUGE key to being good at hope. I forgot to mention that.
- Jake confirmed, sort of (it's not clear he was actually trying to do anything).
- The opening flash for Act 6 Act 5 Act 2 has Jane bopping everything in sight with the swirled sucker including cherubs, and the malevolent ones look exactly like Lil' Cal. I'm guessing the relationship between Tricksters and cherubs is a lot tighter than you think.
- So if Kanaya wanted to hit God Tier would she have to merge with Gcat instead? Which I guess means she would have to semi-literally get the tiger.
- I always thought we were supposed to see the clock slowly stopping in the center before making a judgment one way or the other as the norm. In fact, if you look closely at Vriska's clock, it actually seems to tip to Just a frame before Slick hits it with the crowbar. In any case, it's since been revealed that the effect of the Condesce's mind control was really to bring to the surface Jade and Jane's deepest, darkest desires, and Hussie has said that Aranea's manipulation might not have worked if Jade wasn't at least a borderline case.
Oh, and Gamzee seemed to like both cherub children, and maybe the nicer one more, so maybe when Calliope is back to life (after Vriska steals Aranea's ring only to give it to Roxy), he'll side with her instead of him. And it's not like he can't be mind-controlled by basically any side, starting with Karkat alchemizing more sopor slime for him...
It has been established in the comic that Lord English is effectively unstoppable without taking action to keep him from existing in the first place. Even if it were possible to kill a single iteration of English (something suggested during one of the many canonical but bizarre appearances of Andrew Hussie, when he pulls Doc Scratch's gun on the main antagonist), there would still be a literally countless number of others moving throughout paradox space and destroying the very fabric of reality.
That wouldn't be a problem for the nature of the timeline in which Homestuck takes place if Lord English weren't involved in the creation of the entire thing. It's possible that either the alpha troll universe could be the point where the divergence from the main timeline originated, with Lord English stepping in and generating a glitch in the session, or that the universe that spawned it could be the point of origination. That really depends on whether the glitch is an essential part of the alpha trolls' universe, or just an element introduced later that might work differently in the main timeline. Regardless, though, all of the characters encountered so far (including the alpha trolls as they occur in the comic) rely on Lord English for their existence. Without the glitch he introduced, the beta troll session would never have been initiated. Without it, the alpha kids would never have come into existence. Without them, the scratch that produced the beta kids wouldn't have happened. In the end, this comes full circle, since Lord English relies on the events that transpired in all of those universes for his own existence.
As a result of this, it's difficult to see a happy ending to the series. The unusual time travel device discovered by John could allow the characters to salvage their timeline in some way. Otherwise, there's no way that this won't end without the entire comic revealing itself to have been "a colossal waste of time".
- A similar principle might apply to First Guardians, becoming slowly less powerful and impressively interferent the further down the chain. We have an unknown entity for Beforus, the omnipotent, Lord-English-serving, and omniscient (and inter-session manipulating on top of totally guiding Alternia as far as interfering) Doc Scratch, who is an omniscient-cueball-headed guy for Alternia, the omnipotent but communion-manipulable and not omniscient (but directly assistant and interfering to the point of being prototyped) Becquerel, a dog, for pre-Scratch Earth, and the omnipotent and cat-toy-manipulable and not omniscient (and less than directly assistant, but occasionally interfering) Godcat, who is a cat. And since the cherubs were not meant to play Sburb, they don't get a first guardian. The expressly indirectly and minimally interferent Hussie and the hopefully-not-omnipotent Gamzee Makara, if we're stretching for it?
- Not exactly a strike against this, but We actually do see C1 Jack well after Dream Calliope's murder.
- Actually, it turns out that it was Jake's hope tantrum... field... of flaming righteous charisma. It's also where he got his name from... out of respect.
- It's implied that he gets his huge muscles from Equius via Arquiusprite, who gets shoved into the Lil' Cal juju along with Caliborn and part of Gamzee. Gamzee may contribute to the beefiness as well if Kurloz/ the Grand Highblood's abnormal size carried over to his Dancestor.
- Maybe confirmed, depending on how you read John's "canon-zigzagging" powers. [S] GAME OVER and Jade's earlier death in A 6 A 6 I 2 have been wiped from canon, and Vriska is definitely back.
- They're not "Back From the Dead," but a lot of dead characters do return for the finale as the army of ghosts that Tavros and Meenah raise to help fight Lord English.
- Probably Jossed.
- The portals may also serve the purpose of preventing what the troll session experienced sans indestructible omnipotent Jack Noir issue, where they are unable to get to the new universe due to the door being destroyed or otherwise nonfunctional. Grab White King's scepter from the Black King's corpse, find a suitably expendable meteor, throw it at Skaia repeatedly until a defense portal kicks in, ride in, somehow not die on impact, find the inter-universe portal somewhere, and use that. Or just group-timetravel to exploit existing portals and gates, whichever is easier or preserves the alpha timeline.
- Kanaya will be able to reach god tier if she dies on Jade's quest bed. Since she's the Sylph of Space, and the Sylph class is a kind of healer (as per Sylph of Light), she'll heal the alpha kids' void universe by making it "spacey" and fertile.
"Unchosen" players like Fedorafreak and 2busy4this still have a chance at winning their game, but they would only have one chance and wouldn't be able to Scratch.
Act 7 is not the real ending of Homestuck, and there's going to be a twist leading into the story's true ending. I draw this conclusion because Act 7, Homestuck's supposed ending, left a lot of loose ends and ended on a cliffhanger, so instead it's merely a prelude to the story's more in-depth resolution.
This was after the invention and full blossoming of quantum computing. It was starting to become clear that the implications of quantum computing reached farther than computers. With judiciously hackish applications of low level quantum code, other aspects of our reality could be conditioned into a state of programmability.
So a couple of scientists — really the first "Sburb" "players," although at the time there was no such game — got together and started brainstorming. "Our universe is about to end," they said. "What can we do about this?" So they sat at their computers and wrote some code, and they realized they'd found an escape route. They could come up with a genetic algorithm whose individuals were universes, and whose fitness function was a matter of survivability for intelligent life. And just like that, they could have the universe reproduce, and escape into the offspring to live another day, bringing as much of humanity with them as they could gather up.
They needed a certain baseline of preexisting evolvedness. Something to preserve the genetic algorithm into its offspring, since at the time, there wasn't exactly anything larger than a universe they could run it on, so it would have to depend on its very data — that is to say, spacetime — as the medium in which it had to rely to continue operating, which was kind of confusing and tricky business. So, anyway, they needed some genetic baseline of no compromise, to make sure that in the new universes, the algorithm would still be there. A gene sequence that would describe the very algorithm that was continuing to generate the gene sequences, so that it could continue to propagate into the individuals it was thus generating, and thereby continue to function.
On top of that, they needed to make sure that whatever this multiversal constant was that would secure the perpetual continuance of their genetic algorithm, it would manifest itself in a form simple enough for any other sentient beings which might emerge to understand and put into action, just as these scientists were presently doing by considering and programming all this. So on top of simply existing, the algorithm had to be well documented and user friendly — all this in the face of the circumstances of impending galactic collapse under which it would have to be invoked time and time again.
So, to address this facet of the problem, they didn't just make an algorithm.
They made an MMORPG.
Homestuck documents a generative interaction between the 413th and 612th iterations of this quantum genetic algorithm turned MMORPG.
- Null: The universe is a frog that won't reproduce within its lifetime for whatever reason
- Void: The universe is a sterile frog and won't reproduce by normal means because it's sterile
- Dead: The universe is a frog corpse and won't reproduce because it's literally dead
- SBURB Beta released only a few days before the Beta kids would enter, which involved Bec releasing a wave of energy that more or less wiped out all people on Earth.
- SGRUB was programmed and sent to the trolls, and the ensuing meteor shower killed Gl'bgolyb, prompting the Vast Glub and the extinction of trolls around the universe, including Alternia.
- SBURB Alpha was released around the same time as Betty Crocker made herself known as the Condense and enacted a regime that would kill all humans on Earth in the far future.
Immediately they set up a plan. They couldn't allow life to vanish forever. A new universe would have to be created. But there had to be a fail-safe should another species attempt ascension. The decision was to introduce a game on one planet, coded into the DNA of the universe. The code for this game would be placed in the frog temple, and sent to the homeworld of a certain species. The species would be advanced enough to have sufficient computing technology, while not being advanced enough to decipher the full effects of the code. Only one species is chosen out of the potential candidates. The selected species will adopt the monument as the symbol of home. After the temple has landed, a string of events will take place leading to the discovery of the temple and creation of the game. These events happen while another species is attempting to accomplish transcendence. The game will be released, and the planet the players reside on is destroyed.
The players will then emerge in the Incipisphere and begin the game as normal. Then, their home universe is destroyed at some point in the session. For the human universe, it was the Red Miles, for the troll universe, it was the death of Snowman. This is the function designed to prevent transcendence. Then, the players will create the Genesis Frog, which contains the new universe. In the event that a species doesn't learn how to ascend or refuse to and enforce this rule on all species, the code in the temple will break, now that there is no need to create a new universe.
With that, they finished programming the game. They created a new universe, and as their own universe collapsed, the cycle would begin.
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