WMG / Fantastic Four (2015)

Fantastic Four (2015)

Jossed

Doctor Doom and Mole Man are not actually villains.

They're actors hired to play them.

• At this point, this would quite frankly be an improvement to the movie.
• Also, the real Doctor Doom and Mole Man are waiting in the background, and they will not be happy with this.
• Jossed on Mole Man's count, they seem to be going for a more Ultimate approach where he is initially a member of the staff in the Baxter building.
  • Doubly Jossed given that Tim Blake Nelson's character isn't even Harvey Elder or remotely based on him.
• Jossed. It's Doctor Doom alright.

There will be a future crossover with The Amazing Spider-Man.

We already know that Spider-Man, the X-Men films, and this upcoming movie will continue to not be part of Marvel Cinematic Universe, and that Fox and Sony are too stingy with the character rights to even consider a three-way company crossover that would result in what could possibly be the most fangasmic moneymaker in superhero movie history. But who's to say that Fox and Sony couldn't team up in an attempt to wrestle some of the market share from Marvel's nigh-untouchable dominance in the genre?

The premise? After the story for some reason or another brings Webhead into contact (and conflict) with the Fantastic Four, the Green Goblin (preferably Harry) ends up killing the Human Torch. In a very loose adaptation of actual comic book events, Spidey, having struck up a good friendship with Johnny over the course of the film and proven his talents to the others, is chosen to take Johnny's place on the team. The Baxter Building just so happens to be located in the Big Apple, so it's not like Peter would have to commute to the West Coast or anything.

John Trank is even directing the FF reboot. This practically writes itself!

• Oh nice, kill off the black guy.
  • To mitigate any Unfortunate Implications (since Johnny is a main character), you have Johnny miraculously survive, but wounded and sidelined for a bit, or have him Faking the Dead, thus getting patched up off-screen and setting up a Big Damn Heroes moment later on. (If the movie is trying to go for "grounded", an outright Back from the Dead scenario like what happened in the comics proper is probably out of the question, even if status quo has to be kept.)
• If a cross-company deal were to be done between these studios, it would most likely be between Sony and Disney, as Disney could offer Sony more money for the Spider-Man franchise than Fox could. Fox has generally been insistent on keeping complete control over the Marvel franchises that they own (Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch notwithstanding), while Disney was able to work out several deals with Sony in the past. There have actually been rumors that Disney and Sony are having discussions as of late 2014, meaning that a Spider-Man/Avengers crossover is considerably more likely than one involving Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four, let alone Spider-Man and X-Men.
  • Yes, that would be the best and most logical course of action for Sony, but this WMG operates on the assumption that they wouldn't be open to negotiating licensing rights (a la Fox, as you already noted), no matter how nonsensical that stance would appear to onlookers.
• Considering this movie seems to be an In Name Only adaption, it's unlikely they'll even want to connect it to any other Marvel-based movies that actually follow the comic canon - or that the other franchises would want to have a crossover with them.
• Apparently Jossed. Due to legal red tape, both Fox and Sony cannot use the characters with any license they do not own - the only way a crossover between these characters can happen is if Disney buys them out or works out a deal sharing the properties between the studios.
• And now even more Jossed, because Sony has given joint custody to the rights of Spider-Man with Marvel instead.

The movie actually is a Found Footage film, or is at least shot like one

As the people involved did say the movie would have the feel of this genre. This could be part of the reason why Fox is so hesitant to show any of it - out of fear of backlash from fans and people that dislike the genre.

• Jossed.

Reed left negative comments on Victor's blog.

And that's why Victor hates him so much.

• Completely in-character for Doom, but only time will tell if such pettiness will be intrinsic to this Domashev guy in a more "grounded" story.
• Jossed - the infamous blogging crap was cut entirely.

Blogger!Doom is in fact a Doombot.

Because whenever Doom does something out of character, it's explained by him being a Doombot.

• Jossed. There are no Doombots in this movie - unless you interpret this version of the character as being a malfunctioning one.

This movie will be Doom's Start of Darkness

Rather than being the Big Bad, he'll start out as a friend of Reed's who tries to help them cope with their powers. During The Climax, he will get into an accident that scars his face, leading him to blame Reed for it and setting him on the path towards becoming closer to Comic!Doom.

• More than Likely, as it's following Ultimate where Doom was a Jerkass but not evil until after the accident.
• Jossed. Doom is barely in the movie and he gets completely disintegrated.

This movie will be Reed's Start of Darkness

The fact that the movie is taking more inspiration from Ultimate Fantastic Four, this movie could have Reed's desire to change the world grow into a dark trait, setting him up to take up the name of The Maker in the sequel.

• Maybe not sequel but if it is sticking close to Ultimate, it may in fact be that and start the X-men crossover.
• Jossed. Reed remains a firm good guy throughout and the odds of this receiving a sequel are astronomically low.

They're setting up the Mole Man as a villain in the sequel for one reason

And that's because they wanted to go with a grounded superhero movie. ...See what I did there?

• Jossed. There is no Mole Man, only Doctor Allen.

"Blogger Doom" is simply Doom before the origin story

This is Doom during the "college" part of his origins. In the movie, he'll be horribly scared and blame Reed. Then he goes back to his home country...

• Exactly what happens in ultimate, so I wouldn't be surprised.
• Jossed. Blogger Doom never happened in the final cut, though Victor is introduced as a Basement-Dweller. He also never gets a chance to go back to Latveria, on account of being killed and all.

This movie is going to be filled with Nightmare Fuel

Well it's apparently inspired by movies like the one that famously used Your Head Asplode and the one where the main character gets spliced with a fly.

• The 2nd major trailer where it shows Reed's arm stretch mixed with the Phillip glass music... This will more than likely be the case. Especially with Doom, who we see falling off a cliff into a flaming pit while yelling for Reed.
• Well, the movie gets points for trying...

Johnny and Sue are romantically involved

There are rumors that the romantic subplot to this movie is different, and in the trailer, it looks like Sue is caressing Johnny's face at one point in a way that's not typical for a familial relationship.

...The Brain Bleach is over there for those who need it. If I'm right, I certainly will.

• Thankfully Jossed.
• Anyone else having Twisted Toyfare Theatre flashbacks?

Doom will be an anti-social programmer...and be just like his comics counterpart

People freaked out at the reveal that Doom will be an anti-social programmer, thinking he'll be an angry Internet commenter. But, that phrase could describe the comics Doom too. He's anti-social because he considers himself above everyone. And a programmer? Doom is all-but Reed's scientific equal, and the plot seems to involve a programmed-interdimensional teleportation device. And Doom in the comics did build such a machine to try to rescue his mother's spirit.

• Not to mention you have to PROGRAM doombots... but yeah, let's keep this between me and you.
• Jossed. Doom has very little in common with any version of the character from the comics, and there are no Doombots to speak of.

Either the Human Torch or Invisible Girl will be an android

This idea is based on John Hammond's Human Torch from Marvel Comics #1 (an android) and might resolve the issue of the mismatched race between the siblings.

• Or the fact one is adopted or from another relationship?
  • Or Johnny is adopted and his real father is Jim Hammond!
• Jossed. They're all human.

The movie will be better than most people are expecting from all the rumors and hysteria

• Mainly due to the fact that much like how Trank did Chronicle, we only have bits and pieces and out of context it seems stupid.
  • Probably not. The movie is Not Screened for Critics and has had its international release delayed.
  • Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Jossed. Based on the critical response, many actually see the movie as worse then what they were expecting.
    • And that's saying something!

Confirmed

The Fantastic Four will not cross over with the X-Men, even though both are owned by Fox

If the movie is released to negative reception, it is not likely that Fox would use the same cast (provided they still want to keep the rights if the reboot flops, instead of selling the franchise over to Disney). Furthermore, if the reboot doesn't do well financially (and the odds are poised against it), a crossover would do little to increase ticket sales.

• If anything, this iteration of the team isn't going to cross over due to horrid reception.
• Jossed, Kinberg has confirmed there will not be a crossover.
  • Actually not jossed - this WMG was stating that there would be no crossover with the X-Men, which is what Kinberg stated. Lifting the jossed status and moving it into confirmed. More as to why they can't do this is below.

Fox can't do an X-Men/Fantastic Four crossover...

In the same way that they can't make an X-Men TV series - they don't have the legal rights to make either happen. In spite of the rumors to the contrary, the legal fine print that prevents them from doing either of those things, and it should be worth noting that they purchased the X-Men and Fantastic Four movie rights at separate times, which most likely disallows them from making a crossover.

A rumored script leak that Fox tried to cover up involved several allusions to Mutants in an earlier revision that were completely removed later on, and the movie is set in a completely different setting. This might be because Fox found out that they aren't able to cross the characters over.

Any mention of a potential crossover thus far has actually just been Fox trying to raise interest for this movie or the hypothetical crossover in hopes that they can drum up the necessary legal support from Disney to make a deal happen. As it stands, Fox may be able to make an X-Men Cinematic Universe, but they can't make a Fox-Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Film

Annihilus and his Annihilation wave will appear as the Big Bad of the sequel

Given the apparent prominence of the Negative Zone in this film an eventual appearance by them seems inevitable.

• Nope. All chances of a sequel have been scrapped.

Doom is actually Joey from Hackers

In 1995's Hackers, the character Joey suggests "Doctor Doom" as his hacker alias. Phreak dismisses him, saying "You're hopeless, man! Hopeless!" However, Joey proves to not be hopeless by the film's end. Perhaps he adopts the Doctor Doom handle and meets Reed Richards?

Kang The Conqueror will be the antagonist of the sequel.

James Gunn recently confirmed that Fox owns the rights to his character, and in the comics he is a descendant of Reed Richards.

• Good luck to ever seeing a sequel to this.

It's actually a Chronicle sequel and the characters are all comic fans playing out their fantasies

• The part about it being a Stealth Sequel to Chronicle might not be too far off. One supposed draft of the movie had the crystals from the movie appearing.

The Four will someday go to an alternate universe and meet the former Fantastic Four

• At this rate, it doesn't look like they'll even get a sequel.

Author's Saving Throws for the sequel

The sequel is very unlikely to happen, but let's get cracking to repairing the damages caused by this first movie anyways:

• Now that the events of Planet Zero are behind them, the newly formed Fantastic Four start an independent research organization called the Future Foundation. It's not off to a great start, but it still has potential.
• The Four receive their uniforms, which have become bright blue versions of their former containment suits with big "4" emblems on them. Johnny proudly claims they are his idea.
• Ben is still mopey about his appearance, and had been trying to keep up a cheery exterior so that the others wouldn't fuss over it. It doesn't help that his older abusive brother had resurfaced and he has to go back to Brooklyn to deal with it. In fact, confrontations with his brother will pretty much address his "It's Clobbering Time" outburst in the last movie, suggesting that as he grew older Ben was becoming more like his brother, something he really doesn't want.
• The Four discover that the energy from Planet Zero had leaked not only into their world, but their history as well, creating a new monstrous race known as the Subterranea (and maybe a mutation in a small percentage of the human population). Even more bizarre is that they find out that the leader of the Subterranea is Harvey Allen's disgruntled twin brother Rupert Allen, now calling himself the Mole Man.
• In the middle of all of this, the Four end up in Latveria, where they find a very alive but still heavily mutated and transformed Victor Von Doom ruling the country, slowly turning it into a small first world nation. Victor is more collected and controlled than we last saw him because the Doom that the Four fought was not him, but one of many duplicates of him created by Planet Zero to inhabit itself. The military excursion simply ran into one of them and made the mistake of taking it away from its home turf. The amused Victor calls them "Doombots." Despite his satisfaction with ruling a country, Victor is still bitter and jealous of Reed and their infamous feud is born.
• And finally, the movie will gear more towards the free-spirited, over-the-top science adventures of the comics rather than the dark and depressing feel it was trying to go for at first.

But of course, the sequel's pretty much cancelled, so what's the point, eh?

Planet Zero was a living entity the whole time.

• Also, it started influencing Victor when he was doused in a large amount of the planet's goo and left behind. Most of Victor's dialogue after he's found could be construed to be what Planet Zero also thinks of Earth (or Planet Zero learned of Earth from Victor and based it's opinion off him alone).

Meta

The differences between the Fantastic Four and the reboot version is a result of poor communication.

When a producer from Fox approached Josh Trank for directing the reboot, it was under rushed circumstances after The Avengers showed how lucrative superhero movies were getting again. The meeting probably involved formalities and buttering up before the producer said, "We want you to make a great movie like Chronicle too, The Fantastic Four." Trank misinterpreted that statement as "We want you to make a great movie, like Chronicle 2: The Fantastic Four, and assumed they were willing to produce a sequel to Chronicle, as long as it was a homage to the Fantastic Four in certain places. The lack of advertising compared to other movies is due to someone finally realizing the misunderstanding between both parties, but before the movie could be redone to be a FF movie. The plan is to release what is made, but to downplay the changes to hide the mistake.

• Adveristing part has been Jossed as Trank said in an interview that there is little marketing due to him wishing to go back to the old school way of not showing too much.
  • Un-Jossed. The movie's marketing was invisible because the final product really wasn't well-received in the slightest.

Even though this film got bad ratings, Fox will still try to hang on to the rights and make a sequel.

Because they are stubborn.

• Alternatively, Fox deliberately made the movie as bad as they possibly could to run the franchise into the ground so that when Marvel inevitably gets the rights back, it'll be too toxic to touch.
  • The "It'll be too toxic to touch" theory holds more weight than them simply being stubborn, considering this announcement.

• Moot point, since Disney now owns Fox.

This movie is doomed to be a Stillborn Franchise and Fox will sell the film rights back to Marvel

Right before the movie was announced, it was revealed that they're negotiating with Marvel to make a television show based on the X-Men movies. The only way they could get Marvel's favor (as the two companies have had a bad working relationship for quite a while) is if they had something that they could offer in return. Given that the possibility of an X-Men crossover is very unlikely at this point, with the atrocious critical reception that the movie has, Fox will probably spend more resources developing major X-Men spinoffs rather than risk rebooting a property that has failed to meet their financial expectations time and time again. While Marvel would obviously have to wait a while to re-reboot the team, numerous cosmic characters and species tied to the team could be introduced into the setting without issue - and with Avengers: Infinity War in development, expanding on the cosmic side would be an excellent idea for them.

• Fox and Marvel announced a co-production deal for television shows based on Hellfire and Legion television shows, so ... Marvel may actually be getting the F4 movie rights back sooner than expected.
  • Marvel did get the film rights back...by Disney buying Fox. So semi-confirmed?

The film was only made to hang on to the rights to Galactus and Silver Surfer

In case Fox decided to adapt any X-Men stories that featured them heavily.

• Neither of them were alluded to at all. Not to mention that - as mentioned above - it's unlikely that a FF/XM crossover could happen without Marvel's explicit approval.
• Doesn't matter - their rights are tied up with the FF, so they keep them regardless of whether they were in the film or not.
  • Moot point, since Disney now owns Fox. If that was the case, it was All for Nothing.

General speculation on the inevitable reboot.

• No origin story. We've had two of them already and that's more than enough.
• More lighthearted tone. Because everyone hated how grim this one was.
• Doom will not be involved, at least at first. They'll avoid using him for a movie or two.
  • Alternatively, he'll cameo, but only as a really minor part - maybe this Doom will instead attempt to recreate the experiment that resulted in the group gaining their powers which would turn him into Doom, but his cameos will instead show him watching news reports about the heroics of the gang.
• Maybe, this time, both Storm siblings will be black. Considering the whole "adopted interracial family" angle was barely even focused on in the 2015 film, maybe someone might decide to do just Race Lift Sue alongside Johnny.
  • Or just say they're biracial. Their mother didn't appear. Nobody could tell she's not white. Probably most fans thought that was the case before Sue told Reed about the adoption.
  • Another member of the team will get a Race Lift.
    • Ben Grimm will be black. Since he's stuck in rock form, his race will be irrelevant anyway. Just hope it doesn't lead to Unfortunate Implications.
• Another Fantastic foe will be the main villain and Doom will have a cameo and/or be briefly mentioned since he's too well known to be completely excluded.
• Doom will be involved in the main experiment that gives them powers but will not be the main villain yet.
  • Building on this, they'll use him in a capacity similar to Bucky, with him supposedly dying in the accident only to return in the sequel.
• There will be another villain but Doom will be revealed to have been behind them all along.
• The origin story will be a quick flashback, and most of the movie will take place later when they're all used to their powers and functioning as a family unit.
  • The origin flashback will use the classic origin of their spaceship passing through a cosmic storm. A sequel will reveal that the cosmic storm was an anomaly created by the Silver Surfer.
• It won't be a Fantastic Four movie at all, but a loose adaptation of FF. The movie will start well into the Fantastic Four's career (Reed and Sue are already married with kids, for example), and utilize much of the extended supporting cast from the comics. The focus will be on the established family relationships, particularly Franklin and Valeria Richards trying to live up to their parents' legacy.
• In an attempt to apologize for the terrible movie, the sequel will double as a reboot by turning the "Fant4stic" evil (either because they get drunk with power, as demonstrated by how they essentially intimidated the government into giving them a state of the art laboratory, or by retconning Planet Zero as a dimension where Galactus transforms people into his heralds, as evidenced by "Crash Test" Doom). They eventually hop into the dimension of an alternate Fantastic Four, who end up defeating the Fant4stic to symbolically wash Fox of the last movie.
  • Although this idea would be hilarious, considering that Deadpool 2 tried to include a similar joke but never got said joke past the scripting stage, I doubt they'd do something like that.
• A 1960s-set iteration of the team where they become celebrities after the space accident, only to wind up lost in space after another expedition. After years of stasis, they're finally recovered by the United States ... only to discover they're in a different time period (the current day) and reality (the Marvel Cinematic Universe) altogether. Obviously, an MCU Fantastic Four movie would establish the multiverse, much like Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) expended into the cosmos and Doctor Strange is set to introduce magic. Plus, literally transplanting them from one universe to the other would be a sick meta move.
• H.E.R.B.I.E. will appear.

The movie's production was sabotaged by Disney.

Wacky conspiracy theory here.

• Reportedly Disney's considering Michael B. Jordan to play a Legacy Character version of Boba Fett. Maybe they offered him a Boba Fett spinoff movie if he sabotaged the production?
• And now with the news that Miles Teller is being considered for the Han Solo spinoff movie, perhaps they both were bribed to sabotage the production. The plot thickens...
  • Likely jossed, since Teller wasn't involved in Solo, and the Boba Fett movie was cancelled. Unless Disney actually offered Jordan the role of Kilmonger...

Fox's contract requires that Sue Storm is blonde.

• The leaked Marvel/Sony contract showed what sorts of things they required to be true about Peter Parker and/or Spider-Man. Presumably there is a similar list of requirements associated with the Fantastic Four movie rights.
• The creators of this movie made it clear that they didn't care much about canon, so presumably many of the canonical elements of the film were ones they had no choice but to include.
• Neither Kate Mara nor Jessica Alba is naturally blonde, but both played blonde Sue Storms.
• Given that Michael B. Jordan was cast first as Johnny Storm, the logical next step would have been to either (a) cast a black actress as Sue Storm, or (b) make Johnny and Sue not be siblings. But they did neither.
• So, it seems like Fox's contract requires that Johnny and Sue are siblings, and that Sue is blonde, but doesn't specify that they are white, or that they are biological siblings.
• They could actually cast a black actress and make Sue blonde anyway.

The movie's failure really was because of a lack of a Stan Lee cameo

• Think about it, true believers! Every time Stan Lee cameos in a Marvel movie involving characters he created, it manages to be some kind of success, at least financially if not critically (even films like Daredevil and AS2 were more financially disappointing than outright flops). Stan Lee is in fact a Marvel good luck charm, whose presence among his creations provides them with good luck. The lack of a Stan Lee blessing meant FF was doomed from the start.

Fox is considering a shared-rights deal with Marvel, but is waiting to see how well Spider-Man: Homecoming turns out

• Expect a Fantastic Four shared rights deal within literal days if Homecoming is successful.
  • Forget shared rights: Disney bought 20th Century Fox on December 14, 2017 and the deal was finalized after months of negotiations on March 20, 2019. Marvel now has the full rights to the Fantastic Four and X-Men by default.

Fox will release a Director's Cut of the movie

They did the same thing with their Daredevil movie, and in that case, the Director's Cut was considered far superior to the theatrical cut, to the point that it managed to salvage the movie for some fans. Since this movie was a gigantic money bomb in its theatrical release, it wouldn't be unreasonable for Fox to similarly try and salvage this one (and possibly the Fantastic Four brand itself) with a Director's Cut.

• Such a cut exists, but the odds of it seeing the light of day are very slim.

"Fant4stic" would have been the title for the fourth Tim Story movie.

Marvel Studios will confirm that the universe of this film no longer exists in the multiverse of the MCU

• Given this film's poor reception, it's unlikely there will be much demand for anyone in this film to reprise their roles, unlike Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield in Spider-Man: No Way Home. Thus, there may be a throwaway line indicating that this universe has already been pruned by the TVA or suffered an incursion thanks to Doctor Strange, one of his variants or the Scarlet Witch using the Darkhold, or any other events in Phase Four.
• In fact, John Krasinski as Reed Richards in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness stands out because he's the only member of the Illuminati not played by an actor reprising the role from a previous appearance, which may be indicative of how little Marvel Studios thinks of the previous Fantastic Four films.

This film's version of Reed Richards will become The Maker in a future Marvel Cinematic Universe entry.

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