After all, History becomes legend, Legend becomes myth, and some things that should not be forgotten are lost.
- This theory gains some credibility in A Feast of Crows: Maester Aemon thinks she is The Prince Who Was Promised, and there's a lot of overlap in both prophecies.
- Yeah, there's a lot of overlap between the two prophecies, and there's a lot of overlap with the Stallion Who Mounts The World as well. Might be that the three of them are all different names for the same thing. Damn, that should be a WMG of its own...
- Melisandre interprets the "smoke and salt" of the prophecy to refer to Stannis at Dragonstone. But where was Dany born? On Dragonstone, in the middle of a storm. Not to mention that the prophecy says Azor Ahai reborn will draw from a fire a burning sword. The burning sword could be a metaphor for the dragons.
- There is actually another link between the stories of Azor Ahai and that of the dragons: there's mention of a crack in the moon in both of them.
- Unlikely. While Dany is probably Azor Ahai, princes and stallions are male. Seriously. In addition, Dany isn't a prince/princess, she's a Queen. It is more likely that the three figures are the three heads of the Dragon, speculated below.
- She isn't a queen (in Westeros, at least) as long as Aegon is alive.
- As Aigon points out, the word was originally gender-neutral, it was just translated to "prince." That makes Daenerys the most likely candidate to the Prince that was Promised.
- If memory serves (feel free to correct me, I don't have the books on hand), the Stallion Who Mounts the World was supposed to be Dany's child, as the crones said that it would be the child growing in her (which died). Unless she has another child, which from the description given about her reproductive organs, doesn't seem like that will happen
- Perhaps the crones were right but wrong. Daenerys was a child, and growing inside her metaphorically was a child to become queen. Wouldn't be the first obvious prophesy twist in the series.
- As of ADWD, Dany probably can reproduce again
- The prophecies of Azor Ahai and the Prince that was promised are related, but the Stallion Who Mounts the world is not. It's possible that because her child died, the last prophecy died with it. Since this is all conjecture, it seems to be a case of trying to find a link where there isn't one.
- Oh well, I'd say she's doing a pretty good job of running a big-ass khalasar reaching beyond the "edge of the world". Even as a woman.
- Well, the answer to this one might be given to us in one of Dany's titles. What is Daenerys called after the dragons hatch? The mother of dragons Her child will indeed be the Stallion Who Mounts the World. Just not a human child.
The Prince Who Was Promised is Jon Snow. He is the "song of ice and fire" as he was born from the union of the Starks (ice) and the Targaryens (fire). He is also the defender of Westeros from the Others, and therefore is potentially the savior of the world now that Winter has reached the southern part of Westeros.
The Stallion Who Mounts the World is Tyrion. He constantly jokes about his promiscuity and virility, but also has the potential to rule the world. Unlike Dany and Jon, he has experience in conspiracies and rulership, and has the oddest gift to make anyone his ally.
- I can agree with the first two, Dany being obvious, and Jon seeming to be a fan favorite for guessing on his parentage. But Tyrion makes less sense. While speculation leads to saying that Jon and Dany are related, there is no evidence to support a similar claim for Tyrion. Unless events are told that give a relationship showing the Lannister's having Targaryen blood in them, or that somehow Tyrion is more closely related to Dany and Jon (perhaps by way of Joanna somehow being unfaithful to Tywin and Tyrion being a child of one of the Targaryen's), I can't see a connection that he fits into.
- And while Tyrion does made some sense in the way you put it, my main reasoning is the original "Three-Headed Dragon" was made up of Aegon I and his two sisters (and their dragons). So if the WMG of Jon being a Targaryen holds, then there would need to be a thrid person with Targaryen blood to complete the dragon.
- Don't the Baratheons descend from the Targaryens ? Then one of Robert's bastards (Gendry comes to mind) may complete the trinity. But I guess you could say that of many other noble houses.
- They do. Rhaelle Targaryen would be the one, who would be Robert, Stannis, and Renly's grandmother. It's possible. Gendry was given quite a lot of time in the book, but if we're going on importance, Edric Storm might have a better chance. After all, Stannis took Storm's End to get the boy so Melisandre could sacrifice him to wake the stone dragons on Dragonstone. But it's a good point. Also, there would also be Stannis' daughter, Shireen, but that seems highly unlikely.
- Also Tyrion is a bit more uncertain as in aDwD had Dany been warned to be beware of the "lion". Since Tywin is dead, Cersei is not in control and Jaime is off on his own, the only "lion" that will be trouble for Dany is Tyrion.
- Especially because of how that prediction was phrased, and where the commas were placed in the list. She was warned to beware of the kraken and the dark flame as a pair (who we know are coming together). The other pairing she was warned not to trust was the lion and the griffin (Tyrion and Griff, who were still together at the time).
- This seems to be an unlikely WMG. The Prince who was Promised is Azor Ahai reborn, not another person. In anycase, the roles don't fit. Azor Ahai was chosen to fight the other, this is much more in line with Jon.
- Wrong way around: Jon is the one who drew a sword from the fire (when he burned his hand killing the wight and Mormont gave him Longclaw) and in aDwD Melisandre thinks her scrying is broken because it keeps showing her Jon when she asks for Azor Ahai.
- And as of the end of ADWD, Jon looks pretty dead unless R'hllor brings him back.
- I wouldn't bet on it. Martin's exact words on the matter are "so you think he's dead, do you?" Really, how many POV characters have actually died in this series? And stayed dead, for that matter?
- I didn't say he'd stay dead, I said his continued existence would rely on R'hllor (so if he's any of the heroes, he's Azor). Azor Ahai will be "born again amidst smoke and flame" - this might not refer to a "second coming", but to an individual's metaphorical "rebirth", and his death scene refers to smoke and tears. He's got an ancient dragonsteel sword that he received after it survived a fire, and for all we know his latent warg ability might make him easier for Meli to bring back - skinchangers believe they live on inside their beasts.
- I won't believe he's dead until it actually happens "on-screen", so to speak, given the series. Minor quibble, though: Jon didn't pull the sword from the fire. I have no idea why this idea is so prevalent, but I seem to have to debunk it a lot. He used a flaming curtain to defeat the wight. The sword was in the fire, true, but he didn't know it was there and only received it days later after a new pommel had been carved for it to replace the one damaged in the fire.
- I think the other poster meant the "drawing it from the fire" line was supposed to be a metaphor — he didn't pull it from the fire, but that's how he earned it. (Though it would be pretty funny if Lightbringer was the flaming curtain.)
- And while Tyrion does made some sense in the way you put it, my main reasoning is the original "Three-Headed Dragon" was made up of Aegon I and his two sisters (and their dragons). So if the WMG of Jon being a Targaryen holds, then there would need to be a thrid person with Targaryen blood to complete the dragon.
- Three heads of the dragon! Daenerys is one, Aegon is another one, and the third "head of the dragon" is Jon Snow, son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen! Three Targaryen children: Daenerys is the Stallion - she united the Dothraki and then expanded her forces; Jon is Azor Ahai, as per Melisandre's scrying attempts; Aegon was believed to be the Prince Who Was Promised by his fatherD
- I can agree with Dany and Jon being the two of the three heads. But why does nobody like Bran?! Bran is the one who wanted to fly and the three eyed crow said he could. Second of all its a song of ice and fire. Dany, pure fire. Jon half ice, half fire. Bran pure ice. Three heads of dragons.
- Bran has a destiny lined up, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Dany or ruling Westeros or being one of the three heads.
- I actually think it will be Bran. But he won't ride a dragon- he'll warg into one. THAT would be flying, and I hope he gets it.
- Alternately- Bran is headed in the other direction, and is becoming the champion of the Great Other. Only a half-guess at this point, and based on the hope that the Great Other is not an absolute evil as it is portrayed.
- It seems obvious at this point that the three heads need to be Targaryens all. Although yes, Aegon might be a pretender, I see no reason at this point to think that Jon Connington and Varys both would try such a dupe- especially Jon, whom we see through his POV chapters to be very passionate about the whole thing. So he'd be the second head. The third? L+R=J is pretty much cannon. It's almost there. You can't deny it. Some circumstantial evidence for Tyrion, but really, honestly, no. It has to be those three.
- Well I do Deny it. And if I'm wrong them I'm wrong. All the books say is that the Targaryens have a strong bond with the dragons, it never said they have to be with the dragons. Now I could be wrong. Its just Bran wanting to fly really nags at me.
- You're assuming, by pointing out his chapters, that Jon Connington wasn't lied to. I think Varys is plenty tricky enough to pull that off.
- There's a pretty good chance the Lannisters have Targaryen blood, along with every other noble house. Westerosi nobles are quite "productive." Five children seems quite normal and even a woman who knows that every child brings her closer to losing everything has three of them. The Great Houses also do a lot of interbreeding. We see that Baratheons and Lannisters have married and had children at least four times before, and with that kind of inbreeding and 300 years to spread the seed (I can't even see it taking more than 3 or 4 generations to get a Targaryen ancestor in each of the seven houses), I think we can safely say that a huge chunk of the nobility has at least a drop of Targaryen blood, assuming a drop is all that's needed to be able to bond with a dragon.
- But as Quentyn Martell showed us in A Dance With Dragons, it takes more than a drop of Targaryen blood to bond with dragons. The theory that every noble family probably has Targaryen blood somewhere is sound, but it's not enough. It will probably have to be someone with either a full or half helping of Targaryen blood or some serious destiny issues.
- Sure, it takes more than a drop of Targaryen blood to bond with a Dragon, but we never are given evidence as to what else is needed. Do they have to have more than that amount of Targaryen blood, or do you have to have more of something else entirely? Without counting the series, the only time we see someone of from the major houses interact with the Dragons is when Dany does it, and when Quentin does it. When Dany does it, they're fine (except Drogon until the end of the last book). Dany's their mother and she cares about them for their sake. When Quentin barges into the Dragon's lair, it's for selfish reasons. He wants to marry Dany, not because he wants her to take the Iron Throne (he does, but that's not the main motivator), but because he wants the Lannisters to pay for Elia's death. He barges into the Dragon's den, because he's thinking about himself. The Dragons aren't living, feeling things to him - they're a means to an end.
- No. GRRM has said that the three heads of the dragons do not need to be Targaryens.
- So what now with Jon looking pretty dead.
- You can really only call that mostly dead. Look at who we're dealing with here. We didn't see a body or the words "he's dead" from a reliable source, and Jon "didn't feel the [last] knife." From GRRM, this could very easily be a half-sentence that ends in "... because Sam (or Grenn) football-tackled the last stabber, having arrived with some of Jon's old friends because they had tidings of dire importance so they hired (or kidnapped) a new maester (because the wall's being staffed with a lot of non-Brothers right now so why not one more) and high-tailed it to Castle Black, where they arrived just in time and the maester (or woods witch, or midwife, or or or) was able to save Jon from his wounds." Do I think he's dead? Sadly, yes, I do, because GRRM is a bastard. But I don't think we can take his "death" at face value yet, so there's not enough reason to rule this theory out.
- Well I think he is dead, but as said somewhere further down, I don't think he's going to stay dead.
- How's this- Jon will be biologically dead for a few minutes and Melisandre will bring him back to life the way Thoros has proven is possible.
- Now to actually answer the question, Dany is the Prince Who Was Promised, Tyrion is the Stallion Et Cetera, and Aegon, Brienne, or a Targaryen bastard we haven't met yet is Azor Ahai. Or, Jon really was Azor (or whoever) and now they're all fucked.
- You can really only call that mostly dead. Look at who we're dealing with here. We didn't see a body or the words "he's dead" from a reliable source, and Jon "didn't feel the [last] knife." From GRRM, this could very easily be a half-sentence that ends in "... because Sam (or Grenn) football-tackled the last stabber, having arrived with some of Jon's old friends because they had tidings of dire importance so they hired (or kidnapped) a new maester (because the wall's being staffed with a lot of non-Brothers right now so why not one more) and high-tailed it to Castle Black, where they arrived just in time and the maester (or woods witch, or midwife, or or or) was able to save Jon from his wounds." Do I think he's dead? Sadly, yes, I do, because GRRM is a bastard. But I don't think we can take his "death" at face value yet, so there's not enough reason to rule this theory out.
- Maybe Tyrion already knows. He is quite fond of calling himself a bastard, that could just be a refuge in audacity.
- If Tyrion is a Targaryen maybe that's why his dwarfism appeared out of nowhere when you would think that kind of thing would run in the family. While it didn't appear in the Targaryen family either the inbreeding could have been the cause.
- Actually, no. If we assume Tyrion has the same type of dwarfism Peter Dinklage has (a reasonable assumption from his description) and that it works the same way in Westeros, Tyrion has achondroplasia — the most common form of dwarfism, which is genetic, but in something like 80% of cases the result of a random mutation and not inherited.
- Really like this theory, and I'm pulling for Dany and Jon, but my thoughts on the third head:
- It won't be Stannis. He'll make the ultimate sacrifice and Martin will screw him over. Sob.
- It could be Gendry. He takes Edric Storm's place in the TV series- why would Martin allow that unless he had plans for the guy?
- Uh... Victarion? Kind of doubt it, but he does have the magic horn going for him.
- Agreed. And the person she is delivering it to may be Robert's bastard Gendry meaning that her role in the story may be over and her hanging may not be the fake out people generally assume.
- Brienne is apparently alive or a zombie in ADWD, but she only appears in one scene, with few lines.
- Assuming that Jon Snow is Eddard's real son, then she might be giving it to him. Robb legitimised him before he was murdered so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to inherit Eddard's sword, especially if he ends up giving Longclaw to Ser Jorah. Even if this isn;t the case, a sword of fire forged from Ice is very in keeping with the Ice & Fire motif
- Consider the following; Azor Ahai tempered his sword by thrusting it through his lover's chest; Brienne was given a choice between killing Jaime and death, and chose the former; and Jaime/Brienne gets a lot of Ship Tease and general support.
- Even though it isn't inherited, if Jon Snow = Azor Ahai and Ashara Dayne = Jon's mother, there's definitely some poetic justice to his taking up his uncle's sword.
- One might also note that Lightbringer is referred to as a sword made from "dragonsteel" in the archives on the wall... This is assumed to be Valyrian steel, but the Valyrians would not be anything but sheep herders until thousands of years later, so this cannot be. Dragonsteel might then reasonably be made from firey metals that fall from the sky.
- And the "bleeding star" in the prophecy about The Prince Who Was Promised could very well refer to Dawn itself after a battle... perhaps the battle beneath the Tower of Joy.
- Sir or ma'am, may I just say that I like the cut of your jib.
- Or Shireen will have married someone who will help defeat Daenerys.
Meanwhile, Dany meets several other criteria laid out in the prophecy, which suggests that she's another of the dragon's heads. Whoever the third head might be is subject to speculation.
- Dany was born on Dragonstone, the place of smoke and salt. Then she was "reborn" into a more confident, ready to lead woman at Khal Drogo's funeral admidst smoke (from the fire) and salt (from the tears she had shed) when the red star bled (when the comet went across the sky.) She woke the dragons out of stone eggs, which Melisandre was convinced Azor Ahai would do. Azor Ahai also tempered Lightbringer with his wife's blood. Dany woke the dragons with the (unintentional) deaths of her husband and son.
- When Melisandre looked in her flames to see who she believed was Azor Ahai, all she could see was Snow. (aDwD spoilers) When Jon was knifed, a star bled, the knight that had been killed. The smoke was Jon's smoking wounds, the salt was the steward's tears. If he died and was somehow resurrected, that would be a literal rebirth.
- Jon is only implied to be a head of the dragon if you believe he's Dany's nephew, which is not explicit and not everyone believes.
- Not really. In Dany's vision that the Undying gave her, she saw a blue winter rose growing from a wall of ice as one of the symbolic heads of the dragon. Even if you don't believe R+L=J, there's only so many characters associated with a wall of ice, and Jon is the most likely of them.
- Victarion is most likely an, if not THE Azor Ahai Reborn. His super-powered arm is Lightbringer: born amid a salt sea and among the smoke of a Red Priest's fire, stained by the blood of the wife he beat to death.
- Slow clap because that's exactly something GRRM would do. What better High Fantasy series subversion/deconstruction than for the prophesied savior to make a bad situation worse?
- Also, there's a neat little parallel to the original legend - namely, that Azor Ahai tried to forge two other swords but failed. In this case, Melisandre tried to build up Stannis as Azor Ahai, but failed.
Besides, look at the Night's Watch vow: "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come."
Here we have an oath that uses a sword as the metaphor for the Night's Watch. Lightbringer is supposed to give off heat; the Night's Watch burns against the cold. It is the "light that brings the dawn." The original defeat of the Others is called the Battle for the Dawn. Could this mean that Lightbringer has been staring us in the face practically the entire time? It certainly seems like something Martin would do.
The Azor Ahai legend and the origin of the Night's Watch are, we're led to believe, roughly contemporary. Azor Ahai's legend has to do with defeating the Others, which is also the Night's Watch's mission. As such, the AA legend and the Night's Watch are inexorably linked. The "wielder of Lightbringer" might simply mean the person who commands the Night's Watch. For all we know, AA might himself have been the founding Lord Commander.
It also may be that AA's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa might somehow tie into the Night's Watch promise to not take wives. We understand that promise to simply be putting duty before familial loyalty, but what if there's more to it? If AA did sacrifice Nissa Nissa to "forge" Lightbringer, and the Night's Watch is itself Lightbringer, then the rule against taking wives literally goes back to the first days of the Watch and has a deep symbolic meaning beyond just utility.
- AA killed Nissa Nissa to forge Lightbringer. The Night's Watch killed Jon Snow to "forge" Azor Ahai...
- "There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes"
- "Sword" is a mistranslation from "weapon". The dragons, particularly in Dance, are referred to repeatedly as weapons.
- Dany's dragons were born right at the end of a long summer, just as autumn started.
- There was a red comet in the sky during their birth ("when the stars bleed")
- Dany literally drew the dragons from a fire.
- AA tried to forge the sword twice, but failed - Dany tried to hatch the dragon eggs on a brazier, but failed.
- So AA sacrificed his wife to forge Lightbringer - Dany killed her husband and burned his body on the pyre where the dragons were born. The payment of his life is specifically what allowed the dragons to be born.
- Actually, Drogo was dead by then. Dany paid for the dragons with the life of the maegi Mirri Maz Durr. Still works on a metaphorical level though.
- "There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."
- And this also plays into "the dragon has three heads"; as there are three dragons, there would naturally be three riders, thus the three "heads of the dragon", and three Azor Ahais.
- The problem there is that this is a world where prophesies, dreams and visions pretty consistently come true, in some form or another. Just look at Jojen's prediction of the Ironborn taking Winterfell, Daenery's vision of The Red Wedding, Quaithe's prophecy about The Pale Mare and Dany's suitors, the old dwarf woman's prophecy of Balon Greyjoy's death, etc.
- At this point a lot of people believe that all the various prophecies azor ahai, the last hero, prince who was promised all refer to the same person. But a theory has emerged over the last couple of years that while the prophecies are all the same they refer to three separate people. Most people assume that the three heads of dragons are azor Ahai. My theory states that while there is overlap between the three azor ahais and the three heads they are not the same. I believe that the three heads are: Tyrion, Dany, Jon. The three azor ahais are Bran, Dany, Jon.
- She is the blood of the dragon. She may be a dragon that will wake from stone.
- Sadly, Jossed. Thank you for spoiling that, D & D.
- The Others hate all warmth and how is warmer than Hot Pie. Hot Pie was born in a kitchen midst smoke and salt. Arya says about the headquarters of the magical assassins "Hot Pie would have liked it here"; make that what you will.
- There are plenty of points when we assume that showing up at the Wall with a ton of Valerian Steel in various forms will be the end of the Others and the only reason that it's not a viable path is that there aren't many Valerian Steel anything left to utilize. However, we need to consider where we're getting that idea from. In the books and the TV show, there's dragon glass or obsidian that can kill The Others... again. We also see Jon use Longclaw to kill one of the Others. However, this is the only time that we see Valerian Steel kill an Other. We've been speaking as if Dragon Glass and Valerian Steel are related, and that that's the reason for Jon being able to kill the Others, but what if he's only able to kill the Others because he wields Lightbringer? What if Sam shows up, a new maester, with as much Valerian Steel as he can muster and it turns out that it's just as useless as iron?
It's insane, but it would be a neat way to change what's going to happen now that D & D spoiled it.
Claim number two: Daenerys is the Prince (the books have already stated that "he" could be a woman) and Jon Snow is the Last Hero. That's why in GoT (7th Season Spoiler Warning!) he goes north of the Wall with several companions, paralleling The Last Hero and his friends' quest to find the Children of the Forest (it goes without saying that the book version of this incident will make much more sense than what D&D made out of it).
Claim number three: Azor Ahai is... none other than Davos Seaworth. This is the boldest claim, but I have my reasons. The first one is that it could explain why Melisandre has deluded herself into believing that Stannis is Azor Ahai: she could sense that someone from Team Stannis was him, and the claimant to the throne was the most logical choice. The second one is that this quote from ACoK would turn out to be ironic foreshadowing: When he thought of Nissa Nissa, it was his own Marya he pictured, a good-natured plump woman with sagging breasts and a kindly smile, the best woman in the world. He tried to picture himself driving a sword through her, and shuddered. I am not made of the stuff of heroes, he decided. If that was the price of a magic sword, it was more than he cared to pay. And the third and most important reason: it is said that Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt. Davos fits the bill: he was born again (read: almost died, but saved his life) amidst wildfire smoke and saltwater.
- The Night King is a show-only invention. Take that theory elsewhere.