Marvel Universe
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Comic Books
Comic Books
- The Punisher:
- He really doesn't get along well with the rest of the Marvel heroes: he's a Vigilante Man who lives in a Darker and Edgier world and kills criminals in a universe full of superheroes who hold Thou Shalt Not Kill as an ethical absolute. In non-Punisher stories, any hero that runs into the Punisher contends he's a murderer like any other and tries to apprehend him. (It never works). Within his own Black and Gray comic, Frank Castle is the hero (or Anti-Hero) and his victims run the gamut of unrepentant mobsters, psychopaths and hired killers but no hero ever takes the initiative to come down to Hell's Kitchen to apprehend him for racking up such a high body count. It also works the other way around: Punisher is usually never allowed in stories with other heroes in it (unless it’s a crossover) for mainly three reasons: One, the writers obviously don’t want the Punisher to kill one of the heroes’s “iconic” villains (like Norman Osborn, Doctor Octopus, Red Skull, etc.), because if he did, then they wouldn’t be able to make money off of those villains or write any stories about them anymore (until they come back, that is). Second, it doesn't work the other way around, either; The Punisher could only cause so much trouble for, say, The Kingpin, before the latter would hire one (or more) of the Marvel Universe's many bullet-proof, super-strong villains to smash The Punisher's head in. Frank can be fiendishly clever, but at the end of the day, he still relies on being able to gun down his his enemies. Third, the Punisher's stories are dark and grim in nature, which would clash with most heroes's stories which tend to be somewhat lighthearted and fun (a few exceptions being Daredevil, Wolverine, or Ghost Rider).
- Since Punisher operates in Hell's Kitchen he often has meetings with Daredevil. One of those encounters in The Punisher (2001) ended with DD chained up to a pole with Punisher giving a Hannibal Lecture on how his way is the right way and he doesn't even want DD to try it. This led directly to...
- ...The Punisher (2001) saw Wolverine, Daredevil, and Spider-Man team up to try to arrest him. This being the Punisher, while he would not use lethal force against them since he did not regard them as criminals, he still managed to create enough collateral damage that capturing him simply became not worth the cost. In addition, none of them had a ready answer when Frank pointed out that if they put him in prison, all he was going to do was start killing everyone else in there with him. All three heroes left had to face the fact that short of killing him, there simply wasn't an easy solution to the Punisher.
- Averted in later years with Castle being split into the Darker and Edgier MAX imprint in which only a few Badass Normal Marvel characters appear, such as Nick Fury or the Kingpin or Bullseye, quite different from their mainstream counterparts, and he takes on contemporary criminals (terrorists, sex slavers). Mainstream Punisher tries to replace Captain America, killed alien invaders, wears a costume based on the Venom symbiote, fights The Hood and his supervillains with stolen weapons of various superheroes and gets killed by Daken but is then resurrected as a Frankenstein-esque monster to aid Morbius, Man-Thing, Living Mummy, and Werewolf by Night in their fight against Nazi Zombies.
- In an odd example, Batman beats up The Punisher for 20 minutes in JLA/Avengers. In the Batman/Punisher crossovers, Frank gets annoyed at Gotham and leaves so he can deal with his own scum, without Batman's interference (namely, that whole Thou Shalt Not Kill attitude by Bats, who proves he's more than capable of handling him). He almost killed the Joker once, just before Batman intervened (but worth it just to see the Joker's My God, You Are Serious! face). This is further reinforced by Batman deciding to just let him go (instead of, you know, bringing him in like he would with any other killer).
- Also often averted during the nineties. Back then The Punisher was one of Marvel's cash cows along with Spider-Man and Wolverine, and as such he had quite a few crossovers. Surprisingly, most heroes were either okay with him, or at least willing to put aside their dislike to work with him. The stories tended to focus on both characters' intent to save innocent lives first and foremost.
- The mini-series Punisher: War Zone revolved around The Avengers and Spider-Man trying to bring down the Punisher after he was falsely accused of killing a New York police officer. Captain America tried to reason with him. Spider-Man just stomped his ass flat, with Iron Man putting him in a Tailor-Made Prison with nobody to kill. Word of God from Greg Rucka states that the Avengers have known of the Punisher's murders for years, but ignored him because they felt that sending him to prison wouldn't do any good. Rucka also contends that the Punisher respects heroes like the Avengers, as he's smart enough to realize that if they didn't keep threats like Loki and the Skrulls at bay, there'd be no streets left for him to protect.
- One More Day had a forced Double Subversion: Spider-Man asks numerous heroes for help in healing Aunt May's gunshot wound, to which the various heroes responded with a collective "There is nothing we can do." The X-Men in particular had an Omega-level mutant with Healing Hands at the time who had healed far worse injuries, including someone having their heart torn out of their chest. Spidey is forced to make a Deal with the Devil to heal Aunt May in exchange for erasing his marriage from history. That aside, Spider-Man/Daredevil is perhaps the single most recurrent team-up in Marvel history, the second obviously being any combination of those two and the Punisher. Part of the reason, of course, is because they're roughly similar in terms of power levels, realistic themes, and the sorts of enemies they go up against. Spider-Man headlined Marvel Team-Up for nearly 15 years — he couldn't swing a web without bumping up against some other hero.
- Most heroes in the Marvel Universe are based in New York City, so they can't be accused of "staying out of Gotham". Yet although it is the base and home of The Avengers, Doctor Strange, The Fantastic Four, The X-Mennote and various other immensely powerful superhumans and superteams, it's usually left up to Spider-Man, Daredevil and various other "street-level" heroes to sort out the city's superhuman crime wave. While they do cross over more frequently than DC's heroes, and Rogues' Gallery Transplant is a little more common, it's amazing how many times Doctor Octopus or the Rhino can go on a rampage or normal crooks can rob a bank and end up running into Spider-Man instead of, say, The Thing, or even a Badass Normal like Captain America. Even considering that they are often on adventures to another country or battling aliens in a different dimension, you'd think that with how easily the Web Slinger and others come across serious criminal activities they should run into this kind of thing every other day. It could be argued that Spider-Man is the main adversary for New York's crime because he is always on duty, 24/7. New York is the other heroes' main base, but they take time off, get fringe benefits, and are often off fighting threats on a larger scale. Spider-Man, and to a lesser extent Daredevil, are the heroes charged with guarding New York itself.
- Some creators, fans and critics have said that while most of Marvel's heroes live in New York City, Spider-Man is New York City.
- Exaggerated by the Maximum Carnage storyline. Spider-Man did assemble a team of allies (and not just Venom, but up to and including Captain America), and the Fantastic Four's absence was a plot point, but the X-Men completely missed the fight,note and the Avengers as a group weren't around either. Carnage's family of evil had sent New York completely into chaos by the end; you'd think at some point they'd call out the big guns and make a Crisis Crossover out of it. But Carnage is a Spider-Man villain, so they can't take the plotline out of Spider-Man and Venom's hands.
- Some have questioned why Iron Man doesn't create suits of armor for all of his teammates on The Avengers, or at least those who don't have powers like Black Widow or Hawkeye. Hawkeye once justified his lack of body armor to Iron Man by saying that he doesn't like the idea of wearing something that would restrict his movement, and only accepted a new suit from Stark after making sure it'd be light enough to not slow him down. Completely averted in The Ultimates, where Tony did eventually outfit Black Widow in a new suit of black armor.
- This problem is very much averted in the Ultimate Marvel universe. They have a separate crossover series which is acknowledged to mostly be canon, and there was an arc called Ultimatum which affected ALL of their superheroes. Furthermore, there are frequently villain crossovers, and other heroes making guest appearances. Particularly notable in Ultimate Spider-Man: There is an issue where Spidey shows up to stop the Rhino and discovers that Iron Man has already taken care of it. To name but a few other occasions: The Fantastic Four show up to help Spider-Man face off against S.H.I.E.L.D. during the Clone Saga; Nick Fury always has his back when Norman Osborn turns into the Green Goblin; he briefly dates Kitty Pryde; the X-Men show up to help him take care of a reckless teenage mutant; Daredevil recruits him to a superhero team to take down the Kingpin; he has teamed up with the Ultimates before; The Human Torch is a close friend and briefly attends his high school; Etcetera.
- Black Panther:
- Like Batman, he works alone. During the "Enemy of the State" arc, T'Challa must sort out on his own a conspiracy by the American government to take over his homeland of Wakanda. When his former comrades The Avengers offer their help, he flat-out refuses it, stating that assisting him would be equivalent to turning on the American government and they weren't ready for the consequences, even though the Avengers have tussled with their government sponsors and came out on top before.
- Deconstructed in Black Panther: The Man Without Fear. Panther turns down Luke Cage, Spider-Man, The Falcon, and other New York heroes after they offer to help out with the crime situation in Hell's Kitchen, and only accepts their help grudgingly. It gets to the point where Cage threatens to have The Avengers intervene if T'Challa does not prove himself worthy of defending the neighborhood.
- The main reason for this is because of Wakanda being a heavily isolationist and xenophobic nation. He has nothing but complete respect for his friends and comrades abroad such as in the Avengers, but ultimately, as King, Wakanda is his responsibility. Furthermore, Wakanda makes it clear that outsiders (including superheroes) are not welcome and usually don't need their help. T'Challa isn't just doing this out of pride; would-be usurpers of the throne (of which he's faced plenty) would gleefully use it against him if he had to rely on outsiders to protect Wakanda.
- The series Alias lampshades this. Jessica Jones investigates what appear to be relatively mundane crimes. When she realizes she's in over her head, she tries to contact her old friends in The Avengers, but they are busy with supervillains.
- Lampshaded in Exiles, where Asgardians are conspicuously absent from most of the dystopian Alternate Universes the team visits. Morph points out that The Mighty Thor could likely resolve or prevent most of the problems the team are sent to deal with by himself. Indeed, on a world ravaged by a Legacy virus/Phalanx hybrid, Morph gets Rachel Summers to telepathically contact Asgard and bring them to Earth for the first time, allowing Hank Pym and Beast to synthesise a cure from their blood.
- Subtly lampshaded in The Dark Phoenix Saga - the Dark Phoenix's awakening alerts the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange and the Silver Surfer, but it happens so fast that none of them can effectively do anything but worry. Even more so, when Beast gets word of the X-Men's fight with the Hellfire Club, Beast just grabs the nearest Quinjet and doesn't bother letting his teammates know to go help his old team. Though in this case, he did that deliberately, since it was a politically sensitive matter he wanted as few people as possible involved in.
- Enforced in Avengers: No Surrender early on. Many heroes are quick to spring to action to figure out what happened to the Earth and to protect everyone from the destruction. However, many of them, both hero and villain, are captured by a blue aura that freezes them in place, leaving the heroism to a Ragtag Band of Misfits comprised of the remains of three active Avengers teams and one Reservist.
- Marvel's Voices: Justified. Wolfsbane asks Mirage why the Marauders aren't handling Julian's disappearance, since they specialize in mutant rescue. Mirage replies that since both she and Julian are Native American, the tribal government reached out to her specifically.
Video Games
Video Games
- Spider-Man games play with this trope a lot, usually by featuring other Marvel heroes in either supporting roles or as cameos:
- In Spider-Man (2000), there are appearances by several NYC-based heroes in the cutscenes to express their sympathy at his frame-up but who are of no help at all. Daredevil leaves to "spread the word" about his innocence right before the NYPD swoops down to arrest the wallcrawler. Spidey naturally refuses The Punisher's offer of help knowing his penchant for bloody murder. Also, while you can visit the Baxter Building, Spidey will mention that the Fantastic Four aren't home at the moment.
- Averted in Spider-Man: The Video Game, which featured Namor, Hawkeye and the Black Cat as the other three playable characters.
- Averted in his first Game Boy game, which featured the X-Men.
- Averted in Spider-Man and Venom: Maximum Carnage and Spider Man And Venom Separation Anxiety, as Venom was an optional playable character while several hero icons popped up throughout both games, summoning characters like Captain America, Firestar, Daredevil and more in order to help the player.
- Averted in Spider-Man: Web of Shadows, which has Wolverine, Luke Cage, and Moon Knight as summonable allies who feature largely in the plot.
- Spider-Man (PS4) plays it straight. Despite locations like Avengers Tower, the Wakandan embassy, the Sanctum Sanctorum, Matt Murdock's law office and Alias Investigations being present as Easter eggs, no superheroes other than Spider-Man ever actually show up. Granted, Spider-Man does mention that the Avengers are hardly ever in New York due to battling threats all over the world and the same could be said for others like Dr. Strange, and Black Panther (who runs an entire country), and Daredevil and the other street vigilantes could be handling more minor threats.
Western Animation
Western Animation
- Played straight in Iron Man: Armored Adventures. As a High School AU, despite taking place in New York most of Tony's super-hero counterparts are probably not of age (Black Panther, in his appearance, was still just a teenager, and Iron Fist is mentioned as a local teen martial arts champion), and the adult characters who make appearances are otherwise uninterested or unable to in help Tony out (Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. view Iron Man as a vigilante threat, the Hulk was in one of his rampaging moods during his appearance, Captain America is still apparently frozen, Black Widow and Hawkeye had yet to do their Heel–Face Turn.) It starts to fall apart in the second season where Doctor Doom and Magneto show up, but neither the Fantastic Four nor X-Men do. Jean Grey does show up as a teenager and is clearly shown to not yet be a superhero or member of the X-Men. At the end of the episode where she appears, she seems to meet Professor X for the first time, so presumably the team is just now being assembled. Reed Richards is mentioned as a professor, but it is unclear whether he has powers. Though Word of God states that Wolverine at least would have shown up had the series been given a third season.
- Averted in The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, where other heroes often pop up to help the team. The Grand Finale has the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, War Machine, Black Widow, Winter Soldier, The Falcon, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and other New York-based heroes aiding the Avengers in the final battle against Galactus.
- Similarly, Ultimate Spider-Man often has Spidey teaming up with any one of the numerous superheroes who live in New York City. This is largely due to Spider-Man often facing villains from other heroes' rogues galleries.
- Spider-Man: The Animated Series zig-zagged this trope. In the first season, Spidey swung solo and dealt with villains from his own rogues gallery. However, starting with season two/"The Neogenetic Nightmare", other superheroes began to pop up — the X-Men get involved when the Beast gets kidnapped helping Spidey, Punisher battles Spidey's "Man-Spider" form, Spidey aids Blade in fighting vampires, Daredevil aids in clearing Peter Parker's name, Iron Man and War Machine help Spidey battle Venom and Carnage, Spidey aids Captain America in fighting the Red Skull, and the Secret Wars adaptation brings in the Fantastic Four along with Cap, Iron Man, and Storm.
- The Super Hero Squad Show was very specifically designed to avoid this trope. Aside from being Lighter and Softer (and funnier) in general, the series takes place in Super Hero City where all the Earth-based Marvel heroes live (in fact, only a handful of people shown are NOT heroes.) The city is separated from Villainville by a giant wall. All the villains live there. Even though the series mainly focuses on the "Super Hero Squad" composed of Iron Man, Falcon (Spider-Man couldn't be included due to licensing issues with Sony Pictures), Silver Surfer, Reptil, Thor, Wolverine, the Hulk, and later the Scarlet Witch, many episodes had other heroes join in just because they were literally in the neighborhood. One episode involved the Squadies trying to recover the show's MacGuffin from a Bratty Halfpint named Brynnie Bratton. Eventually she ends up being passed around like a football by random heroes and villains alike such as Colossus, Ms. Marvel, Juggernaut, various members of the Avengers, the Wrecking Crew, the Fantastic Four, Dr. Doom, Abomination, M.O.D.O.K., Storm, Sabretooth, and numerous others along with the Squadies themselves all trying to stop the other side just to get the tiara she's wearing. By the end of the first season, most of these same heroes did whatever they could to stop Galactus from going on an eating binge.
- Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur (2023): The Avengers do exist in this continuity, but they tend to be busy with bigger threats and Mimi questions if "they even go below 14th Street".
