Times when a character one is not supposed to agree with has a point in Fan Works
Crossovers
- In the Harry Potter/The DCU crossover Ascension
, Aresia is irredeemable for unleashing Circe in an attempt to kill Harry, believing him to have bewitched her fellow amazons. Her reasoning: a male magic user came to Themyscira and within a few days, all of the Amazons (including the Queen) are literally lining up to have sex with him, all the while talking about how amazing he is. It's rather hard to argue with her logic. While an argument is made over the fact Circe turned all of the Amazons to stone, that was Circe exploiting Exact Words after Aresia forced her to swear an oath not to harm the Amazons in exchange for her freedom. At worst, Aresia comes across as a Well-Intentioned Extremist. - In-Universe example in Fallout: Equestria: Red Eye was raised in an earth pony supremacist stable, and frequently argues against it in his propaganda. Given that unicorns can do magic, pegasi can fly, and earth ponies don't seem to have anything special, it would be hard to argue that earth ponies are even as good as the other races, let alone better. Despite that, the arguments he quotes are pretty convincing. Most significantly, he would have died of old age had he not been given cybernetic implants that were only developed because of the stable's obsession with technology over magic.
- The NSFW Naruto/DCAU fic Ruler of Ero Justice has this among its many problems. Not even done with the first chapter and it managed to give strawmen a point who never even appeared in fic. Naruto (in name only) comments that the Earth people who fear Superman are just as stupid and ungrateful as the people in Konoha who saw the Kyuubi as evil because it was controlled. Problem: No one knew that it was controlled even in canon, it was rumored by a few but it was hardly well spread among the people. By comparing it to Superman, and ignoring the long amount of time Superman spent between series rebuilding that reputation, the fic ends up making distrust of Superman look far more reasonable than it should be.
- The Secret Life of Dolls: Anna is persistently paranoid and accusative of Edward, which the author condemns her for. However? Edward Tallen is a dangerous, antisocial dollpire — and just committed pre-meditated murder. This was darkly foreshadowed, when Anna insists that the reason she wants to kill Edward is that killing vampires is what her family does. Cleolinda says "Yeah, well vampires are supposed to eat people and he's not doing that!"
- Shinji And Warhammer 40 K: The Government bureaucrats in episode 22 are portrayed like idiots concerned about their position and afraid of losing power and influence if people do not obey them. However their concerns were not unreasonable: giving weapons to a teenager and allowing him to hoard them is a recipe for a disaster, moreover if he keeps them in his school.
- To Undo It All: During the events of canon, Ichigo goes on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge and immediately kills the twins who kidnapped Rukia. While Rukia lambasts Ichigo for murdering a pair of children over something he intellectually knew was reversible, the story glazes over what Ichigo went through emotionally. When he woke up that morning, he'd completely forgotten he was no longer in the Bad Future and saw the loves of his life alive once more, only for both of them to not recognize him and Yoruichi to treat him like an enemy. As Ichigo's already a Shell-Shocked Veteran who's explicitly in a very delicate state emotionally, he immediately snapped and went after the two he knew were responsible. Rather than shocking, it's arguably expected he would react as he did. Yes, the twins were afraid of being killed by the Shinigami, but they also kidnapped a Shinigami who's also the sister of one of the heads of the Five Great Families. Their only chance of survival would be if their plan worked perfectly and no one remembered Rukia.
- The Watcher's Council in Assumptions and the Word All are portrayed as being in the wrong for including girls with disabilities on a list of candidates for immediate termination if they ever became the Slayer. However, given that for millennia there was only one Slayer at a time and the Slayer that caused this discovery had cerebral palsy and is only capable of moving a single limb, it would be in the world's best interest for her to be killed and replaced with a more capable Slayer.
- Genesis of an Adventure: At one point, Ren begins to act irrational and treats all her friends like crap. It is her live-in grandmother who eventually calls her out on her bad behavior when she eventually makes her way back home apart from the others, and tells her that the world does not revolve around her. Leading up to that rant, she declares that she isn't going camping with her family, and immature as she may have been in general up until then, that's actually a good point. She had already told Kisho in the very beginning that she didn't want it to begin with, and really, one's lack of interest in something is something people, authority figures included, ought to respect. If her parents wanted a nice time out at least for themselves, they could leave her at a friend or relative's house, and if it was about building character, then in general, that is something kids should have a say in how to go on about. If anything, they could have created a list of suggestions for stuff she would rather do together with them, and if she really wants to blow off steam from school by not doing or even considering anything, then they should validate that and let her decide on something when she is ready.
- In new friends, new horizons, Yukari is shown as being in the wrong for distrusting Nicholas White for carrying a gun, and having heard that he was put on trial for killing two people (although even Saori is shocked upon hearing of the latter). While it soon comes to light that Nicholas killed the men while they were trying to kidnap his older sister Elizabeth (aka Darjeeling from canon) to sell her to the sex trade, Yukari's reaction seems more reasonable from a first impression, especially considering the heavy restrictions on owning guns in Japan.
- About two-thirds of the way through Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness, Zacharias Smith decides to leave the DA. When he does so, he explains that the DA is sounding more and more like a martyrdom cult with each passing day, and the focus of the group has changed from "Resist the Death Eaters" to "Die heroically". The DA counterargument is... to agree with every word he says and ask, "What's the problem with that?" Bear in mind that all of the members of Dumbledore's Army are teenagers, and Zacharias Smith (who was a strawman in canon) suddenly becomes the Only Sane Man.
- Harry Crow: After Harry attacks and physically injures ten girls who were threatening Hermione, Snape argues that a first-year should not be allowed to carry a knife, and that he needs to be reined in before "the next thing he kills isn't a troll, but another student". Snape gets ignored because Harry was never intending to actually kill anybody and what he did was perfectly acceptable for a goblin.
- In Hogwarts Exposed, the Obviously Evil school bully Dick rants about how careless Jamie was for diving into the freezing lake to rescue a child's doll. He's right, because however much sentimental value a doll has it's not worth drowning or freezing to death over, especially as she could just have said "Accio doll" and had done with it.
- The Karma of Lies:
- Chat Noir argues that Hawkmoth's murders shouldn't count against him because they were undone by Miraculous Ladybug. While from an ethical standpoint he's got no real ground to stand on here, from a legal perspective there actually is an argument that since courts have defined death all brain activity and Miraculous Ladybug quite obviously reversed it, he's "only" guilty of eight godzillion counts of attempted murder, plus all of the other charges, which isn't exactly better, but his point still stands.
- Marinette's decision not to get involved with the police investigation is portrayed as rejecting Adrien and her former friends' selfish demands that she once again fix their problems for them, with Adrien specifically wanting her to abuse her influence as Ladybug. However, it could be argued that Adrien has a point, even if his demands come from an extremely self-centered position:
- Marinette is a direct eyewitness to several of Lila's crimes; thus she arguably has a civic duty to come forward with what she saw. This would be true even if she wasn't a superhero. Coming forward would not be 'interfering' with the investigation, so long as she left the police work to the professionals and didn't try pushing them in any particular direction.
- Her honest testimony would likely be taken as far more credible than Adrien or the rest of the class, particularly as she would be unlikely to hold back her criticism of Adrien. This could help the police reconcile Adrien's shifty behavior and strange-sounding claims.
- Marinette explicitly states that she would act if they were still friends, making her decision not to come forward seem personal rather than trying to avoid abusing her influence. One could thusly argue that she's using her position as Ladybug as an excuse to avoid testifying about witnessing a crime due to her anger at the victims.
- Chat Noir argues that Hawkmoth's murders shouldn't count against him because they were undone by Miraculous Ladybug. While from an ethical standpoint he's got no real ground to stand on here, from a legal perspective there actually is an argument that since courts have defined death all brain activity
- Level Up (MHA): After Menu-chan gives Izuku "The Reason You Suck" Speech over how he never tried to improve himself and just complained about his Quirk, the story and Izuku's girlfriends all agree with Menu-chan. What the story ignores is that Menu-chan bullied a four year old for not being an Instant Expert with an extremely complex Quirk and because she refused to admit that she had no idea how her powers worked either.
- Peace's Apprentice: In Chapter 7, Aizawa threatens to expel and blacklist Bakugou for attacking Shinsou after a sparring match. While Momo's reaction indicates that this is meant to be taken as an early sign that Aizawa is unfairly biased towards Shinsou, in this specific instance it's hard to blame him for dressing down a student with so little self-control that he'd immediately resort to physical violence over one loss.
- Many fanfics that keep Izuku Quirkless, such as Deku? I think he's some pro..., Mastermind: Strategist for Hire or Rise of the Last Villain, among many others, have people impressed by Izuku's intellect and immediately assume that he must have some intelligence-enhancing Quirk, only to find out that no, he's Quirkless. This is often use to show how anti-Quirkless prejudice and bigotry draw people into believing that no one can't be great unless they have a Quirk to boost them. However, this runs into many problems:
- First of all, in these fics Izuku gets a massive dose of Adaptational Intelligence, turning him into a supergenius on par with Nezu (such as in Mastermind) or even smarter than him (as in Last Villain). While Izuku in canon is a pretty smart boy with a keen analytical mind, the manga doesn't even imply that he's Nezu's intellectual equal (in fact, not only Izuku isn't even the smartest person of his class, he isn't even among the top 3 smartest).
- Following that, there's the fact that whenever there's a superintelligent character on MHA (Like Nezu, or the anime-only Saiko Intelli) their vast intellect is always the result of an intelligence-enhancing Quirk, which would make normal to assume that somebody with an absurdly high intellect would be thanks to a Quirk.
- All in all, the writers of the fics mentioned above as well as many others gave Izuku an intelligence-boosting Quirk but they simply didn't call it a Quirk, making the people who believe that a completely mundane person couldn't be that smart without the help of a Quirk justified in their assumptions.
My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic
- Anthropology deals with Lyra trying to prove the existence of humans. Bon Bon, Lyra's roommate, does not believe her, and can come across as frustrated and sarcastic in her denial. Bon Bon is meant to be seen as an insufferable skeptic, especially when she threatens to kick Lyra out, but Bon Bon makes some fairly decent points: Lyra doesn't have any real proof besides some books and dreams (something Twilight agrees with), Lyra's behavior is shown to be weird by pony standards, and Lyra needs to improve her image to advance her musical career (which Rarity agrees with). Also, Bon Bon only threatens to kick Lyra out when one of her stunts - bringing an apple cart to life to ride it like a car - nearly hurts somepony. Of course, by the end of the story, when Lyra comes back to Ponyville with not only proof of humanity but the fact that she herself was Human All Along, all that is left of Bon Bon is biting sarcasm and barely hidden rage.
- A common villainous group in The Conversion Bureau fanfics, the Human Liberation Front (which doesn't exist in the original fanfic), see ponies as a threat to mankind — and given that the ponies' goal is often the total extinction of humans, sometimes with side-orders of Getting Smilies Painted on Your Soul (and for every fanfic that paints ponification as a necessary evil and a last resort, there's several more that have the ponies intentionally creating the threat in order to force ponification), they are absolutely right. Anti-Conversion Bureau fics like The Conversion Bureau: Not Alone and The Conversion Bureau: The Other Side of the Spectrum take this and run with it, portraying the bureau as villains, although notably, Other Side of the Spectrum doesn't portray the HLF as right — they're basically the horribly-extremist anti-pony side, while the protagonists belong to a much more moderate anti-Equestria faction.
- Frigid Winds and Burning Hearts has Captain Braveheart being court-martialed by Prince Blueblood in Chapter 8. We, the readers, are supposed to side with Braveheart, and feel that Blueblood is badly mistreating him. This would be easier if everything Blueblood says about Braveheart (that he's a violent, hateful street punk in Royal Guard's clothing who has yet to succeed at a single task he undertakes in the story) wasn't true.
- Harmony's Warriors: Silver Belle is a Jerkass, but his views on sacrificing smaller numbers of soldiers and civilians for the sake of winning the war is purely pragmatic.
- My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic: In the series' second installment, there is an ex-Wonderbolt named Ace Ray who was kicked off the squad for badmouthing Star Fleet and has become a loser who sits around stuffing his face all day. However, he accuses the Star Fleet of being arrogant and lazy for not taking action against their enemies sooner and thus leading to the destruction of Equestria. He also calls them out on assuming every enemy they fight is irredeemably evil without even considering the possibility that they might have a reason for acting that way. He then accuses them of being overlords due to their species essentially taking over United Equestria, doing everything of value, and Celesto being extremely powerful, both politically and literally. The reader is clearly supposed to side with his sister Skye, who tells him he's bad for speaking his mind about Star Fleet. However, he makes some very good points that were mentioned by reviewers and riffers of the original fic.
- Snowdrop (2013): A number of Snowdrop's classmates can be heard complaining about the prospect of working with her on the class project, assuming that she would be of no use as a partner on account of being blind. This is presented as wanton ableism, but their complaints are not entirely unjustified. As they are complaining, it is heavily implied that Snowdrop has not yet started working on the project (making a feeble effort to claim to the teacher that she's doing fine) despite it being due in two days. There's also the pony who remarked: "I worked with her last time! You do it!", implying that her experience working with Snowdrop was not pleasant.
- In The Empty Cage, one of the differences in the seal from canon is that from the moment the vessel is destroyed, the Kyuubi will be banished from the human realm for a hundred years. A civilian is presented as being heartless for suggesting killing Naruto immediately to insure a hundred years of freedom from the Kyuubi. Though, at least one person who disagrees with said civilian uses the justification that every day Naruto (really the Kyuubi) lives is another day added on to their hundred years of safety * .
- The Last Prayer:
- Hiashi insists Hinata is a disappointment in every regard and that Kurenai shouldn't waste her time on her. While harsh, the fact that Hinata can barely keep from fainting just by being around (what she thinks is) an illusion of Naruto that doesn't even speak shows Hiashi isn't entirely wrong.
- During a discussion about Naruto marrying multiple women, Kurenai states she "can accept having sister-wives". When Ino calls her out on acting like she's the one making all the decisions, the older woman explains that "Anyone who causes problems in a polyamorous relationship would have to go". Except Ino's right that Kurenai is trying to make all the decisions. The woman had previously planned on only telling Ino she was in a relationship with Naruto if Hinata declined to marry the boy. Worse is that Ino was actually the first to not only accept, but embrace, the idea of Naruto marrying multiple women.
- The NSFW Raised by Wolves not by Fish runs into this problem with Catelyn Stark. In fic her issues with Jon are more blatant and severe than canon...because Ned's mother is around favoring Jon (and Arya) for looking Northern while disliking her red-haired children a la the Mad King saying his granddaughter smelled 'Dornish', constantly insulting her faith, heritage, and values, and generally being the start of the sort of powerbase that a Bastard Bastard could use to dethrone the legitimate children that Cat canonically fears from Jon. While her actions are indeed extreme negative inflations of her character, it is not hard to see them as a result of being constantly agitated and making her behavior more understandable and justifiable than it otherwise was meant to be.
- Maledict in Sonic X: Dark Chaos claims that without peace under his tyranny - despite all his atrocities and manipulation - life in the galaxy and the universe-at-large would be nasty, brutish, and short and that if they would've let him win in the first place, most of the war wouldn't have happened. And considering what Sonic and his friends encounter during the story, it's hard not to see his point. This trope is lampshaded in the rewrite by Sonic of all people, who says there may be a kernel of truth to it - but even a difficult freedom is better than simply being Satan's plaything.
