Goldman: Jack, I think we have to face it. The dream that we had is dying in Russia. If Bolshevism means the peasants taking the land, the workers taking the factories, Russia's one place where there's no Bolshevism!
Reed: You know, I can argue with cops. I can fight with generals. I can't deal with a bureaucrat.
Goldman: You think Zinoviev is nothing worse than a bureaucrat? The soviets have no local autonomy. The central state has all the power. All the power is in the hands of a few men and they are destroying the revolution. They are destroying any hope of real communism in Russia. They are putting people like me in jail. My understanding of revolution is not a continual extermination of political dissenters and I want no part of it. Every single newspaper has been shut down or taken over by the Party. Anyone even vaguely suspected of being a counter-revolutionary can be taken out and shot without a trial. Where does it end? Is any nightmare justifiable in the name of defense against counter-revolution? The dream may be dying in Russia, but I'm not. It may take some time, I'm getting out.
Reed: You sound like you are a little confused about the revolution in action, E.G. Up 'till now you've only dealt with it in theory. What did you think this thing was going to be? A revolution by consensus where we all sat down and agreed over a cup of coffee?
Goldman: Nothing works! Four million people died last year. Not from fighting a war, they died from starvation and typhus in a militaristic police state that suppresses freedom and human rights —- where nothing works!
Reed: They died because of a French, British and American blockade that cut off all food and medical supplies, and because counter-revolutionaries have sabotaged the factories and the railroads and telephones, and because the people — the poor, ignorant, superstitious, illiterate people — are trying to run things themselves, just as you always said that they should, but they don't know how to run them yet. Did you really think things were going to work right away? Did you really expect social transformation to be anything other than a murderous process? It's a war, E.G., and we've got to fight it like we fight a war, with discipline, with terror, with firing squads, or we just give it up!
Goldman: Those four million didn't die fighting a war. They died from a system that cannot work!
Reed: It's just the beginning, E.G. It's not happening like we thought it would. It's not happening the way we wanted it to, but it's happening. If you walk out on it now, what's your whole life meant?
— A very Troperiffic conversation indeed
Reed: You know, I can argue with cops. I can fight with generals. I can't deal with a bureaucrat.
Goldman: You think Zinoviev is nothing worse than a bureaucrat? The soviets have no local autonomy. The central state has all the power. All the power is in the hands of a few men and they are destroying the revolution. They are destroying any hope of real communism in Russia. They are putting people like me in jail. My understanding of revolution is not a continual extermination of political dissenters and I want no part of it. Every single newspaper has been shut down or taken over by the Party. Anyone even vaguely suspected of being a counter-revolutionary can be taken out and shot without a trial. Where does it end? Is any nightmare justifiable in the name of defense against counter-revolution? The dream may be dying in Russia, but I'm not. It may take some time, I'm getting out.
Reed: You sound like you are a little confused about the revolution in action, E.G. Up 'till now you've only dealt with it in theory. What did you think this thing was going to be? A revolution by consensus where we all sat down and agreed over a cup of coffee?
Goldman: Nothing works! Four million people died last year. Not from fighting a war, they died from starvation and typhus in a militaristic police state that suppresses freedom and human rights —- where nothing works!
Reed: They died because of a French, British and American blockade that cut off all food and medical supplies, and because counter-revolutionaries have sabotaged the factories and the railroads and telephones, and because the people — the poor, ignorant, superstitious, illiterate people — are trying to run things themselves, just as you always said that they should, but they don't know how to run them yet. Did you really think things were going to work right away? Did you really expect social transformation to be anything other than a murderous process? It's a war, E.G., and we've got to fight it like we fight a war, with discipline, with terror, with firing squads, or we just give it up!
Goldman: Those four million didn't die fighting a war. They died from a system that cannot work!
Reed: It's just the beginning, E.G. It's not happening like we thought it would. It's not happening the way we wanted it to, but it's happening. If you walk out on it now, what's your whole life meant?
— A very Troperiffic conversation indeed
