This is the transcript of the premiere episode of On the Tropes, the wiki's weekly webcast. Enjoy!
- They're he-re!
Nick From Akron Ohio, this is episode one of On the Tropes. I'm your host, Nick, and today I'm joined by
Cir: Cir and
Kyle: Kyle.
Nick: So, since this is episode one, we'll give a brief breakdown of what the show is. We take famous tropes from movies, tv shows, literature, any storytelling device
Kyle Comics
Nick Exactly. And we try to break them down and after that we'll do a Top Five list about said tropes, and after that we get into a different segment...
Cir It'll vary from episode to episode, right?
Nick It will, yeah. Listener feedback, interviews, games for you listeners, things like that.
Cir Whatever we feel like and you respond to.
Nick Exactly. It's going to be very listener-driven.On this episode, we're talking about the trope of "Breaking the fourth wall". Before we break the fourth wall, what is "the fourth wall?"
Kyle I did some research, looked up some dusty old books I had, and I found that it's a stage term, the term for the three walls of the stage...
Nick Stage Left, stage right, and stage back
Kyle And the audience looking; that's the fourth wall that the characters see, that you don't.
Nick I feel like they do that a lot, they break the fourth wall a lot in theatre, where a character will step out, and evey other character in the scene will be still, and they'll address the audience, which is what breaking the fourth wall is, is acknowledging that you are in whatever you are in, whether it's a book or a movie or tv show or something. Breaking that Fourth Wall.
Cir I think it's pretty interesting how it's changed over the years; I mean Shakespeare used it all the time.
Nick Directly addressed the audience
Cir And like Kyle said, plays; plays used it frequently. I noticed that cartoons, like early cartoons, it was a big deal.
Nick Like Duck Amuck, from Bugs Bunny, is one of the most famous cartoons where there's interactions, the animator is actually changing things, you see their hand changing what's on screen.
Cir In movies, I think it's more prevalent later, I guess it's more recognized later, and there's less; it happened a lot less in film.
Nick In movies nowadays, how is it currently used as a storytelling device?
Kyle I think in a lot of the movies today it's used as a comedic device. Like in Hot Tub Time Machine, When what's-his-name, I don't remember the actor's name
Nick Craig Robinson
Kyle Yeah, when he finally realizes that there's a hot-tub time machine, he looks at the camera and that's all you really need. It just adds to it...
- " It must be some kind of ...hot-tub time machine!"
Kyle I think it's used to draw the audience into whatever is going on in the movie, but for a lot of it, it's in comedies, it's most used in comedies.
Cir I think comedies get away with it better, because it does kind of take you out of the movie in a lot of ways. It detracts fromthe story itself, but in comedies, they can get away with it, because it's funny, and if it's funny, that's good enough .
Kyle You're in a less serious mood, you're showing up to laugh and all that. One thing I thought was interesting too, is that it's used a lot in media for kids.
Nick Dora the Explorer
Kyle Right, that whole thing
Nick Blue's Clues
Kyle It's really a big deal when it comes to speaking to children, and I think it's almost for the same reason; it's comedy, they want ... it's more about interacting with the audience, having good time, engaging them. It's in so many things, I notice, that I watch with my daughter now
Nick They;re talking directly to her.
Kyle Right, exactly, it's like, "Stop bossing my kid around!"
Nick What's weird is when you watch these things and you're not doing what they're saying, and they're responding to what you're supposed to be doing. Like you saying something that you should be, but you're not.
Cir And they're telling you, you did a good job for counting to ten, and you're "I didn't count to ten. You don't need to congratulate me."
Nick Aside from comedies, though, do we like how it's used?
Kyle You know, the latest example I can think of is the Netflix show, House of Cards — Kevin Spacey. He talks directly to the... he breaks the fourth wall like every episode. It's really interesting, because, not only that, but when he's using his cel phone, it shows onscreen the text that he has, it shows what his cel phone looks like. And he talks to you,
Nick The Mindy Project does that too, and I think it's a kind of funny new device for tv shows to use, kind of like pop-up — I haven't seen House Of Cards, but on 'Mindy Project, they have pop-ups, kind of like pop-up video bubbles.
Kyle Mm-hmm, and it;s weird, because it, I can't say that... It's that suspension of disbelief, though, man. It wears on me sometimes. And even with House of Cards, I noticed there's a point where something happens, the characterexperiences something a little bit more dark, and he kind of tells the audience, the audience, the camera starts to pull away. And he looks directly at them and it's like "You can't pull away now. You've been here this whole time." And to me that's a little too much of the character being.... That makes Kevin Spacey's character kind of more-than-human. It makes him too..
Nick Almost godlike in terms of the relationship
Kyle Yeah, in the show. His relationship to the rest of the show. I think sometimes it can be overused, even though I will say I think that's a pretty good show.
Nick I thnk in some ways, ... well, actually, before I say anything, I was wondering, is narrating? Is that technically breaking the fourth wall? Having a narrator as one of the characters in a movie?
Cir I think it depends on how it's done.
Nick Is it strictly just looking directly into the camera that's breaking the fourth wall? Or does it, can it be audio? Because you're hearing something from a character who's acting in the movie, but they're obviously not talking in the moment
Cir There are different levels, at least on TV Tropes' website, they mention the different levels, something like, it sounds like in House Of Cards, if he's consistently breaking the Fourth Wall, they call that "No Fourth Wall". And there are times when they're not quite acknowledging, where it's Leaning on the Fourth Wall. But what they define as Breaking the Fourth Wall specifically, is the narrator, or whoever in the show, is directly intercting either with the audience or the author. So Daffy Duck in "Duck Amuck" or somebody actually acknowledging the audience directly. But I think a narrator itself, in most forms is at least Leaning On the Fourth Wall.
Nick It's leaning on it, but it's right on the edge of it, because it could just as easily be one character, and has oftentimes been, one character talking to another character
Cir Like in Double Indemnity, it's the guy leaving a message for his friend. Or in American History X, it's the essay that the kid wrote.
Kyle I think as a storytelling device, it's really effective if it's used sparingly. At least for me, that's how I feel. I do think though there's a lot of opportunity to do it. We talked about the celphone thing, I think that's kind of interesting. It's cool, it shows you what's the new visual technology as new ways to tell stories.
Nick Very cool.
Cir Like we said earlier it's used comedically very well, by a lot of directors. Mel Brooks uses it a lot, Woody Allen uses it. Mel Brooks uses it in pretty much
Kyle Every movie I can think of
Nick Early comedies
Cir Early comedies it's constant;
Nick even the Marx brothers used it
Kyle All the time.
Nick In terms of non-comedic movies, I think it's used a lot to get across a philosophical point, like at the end of Holy Mountain
Cir Yeaah, it's funny, because it's usually used by a comedian, by the innocent bufoon who's the heart of the story, or a trickster type character, somebody like, ah, I'll bring him up again in my list, or it can also be a wise character, a wise-man character. I think it's funny, it's always a certain kind of situation or person. Or a crazy person breaks the fourth wall a lot. If you've noticed it someobody who's supposedly, who's seen by the other characters as being out of touch with reality, and in fact, he's the most aware.
Kyle Like I was saying, in Holy Mountain, that character does kind of fit in with that, that paradigm. He's the spiritual, more enlightened, more intelligent one, compared to the other characters. Not to ruin it, but I think that movie is kind of un-ruinable.
Cir Yeah, exactly.
Kyle At the very end he
Cir That's a good way to put it.
Kyle He tells the camera to go back and
Cir Live your — basically, "Real Life awaits." He says' "Real life awaits." and then, it's been the whole message of the movie. If you watch it you'll know; it's pretty much un-ruinable, I think.
Nick Persona ends the same way. By Ingmar bergman, but it really has nothing to do with the rest of the movie, which is kind of weird. Also in Persona, the camera breaks down, the film breaks during the middle of the movie and there's this wierd interlude. I don't really know what it means. I don't purport to be able to see inside the mind of one of the craziest directors ever.
Cir I think it's interesting, at least. It does leave a lasting impression
Kyle Definitely.
Cir I do think that it's an older, an older trope. It's not really used in, we say "newer" movies, but I feel like it hasn't really been used in the last five years, maybe ten years
Kyle Not really as much, you're right.
Cir Not well. Besides Hottub Time Machine,, I guess. But even there it's not used too much. It's — mis it just the one part, I think?
Kyle From what I remember, it's just that one moment. I got a [gid?] sharing that movie, by the way.
Cir Excellent.
Kyle It's a true story.
Cir That's awesome.
Kyle Yeah, I can't think of any good movies — or any good examples from movies within the recent history that have used it within the last five years.
Cir That have done it successfully.
Kyle But I know that three of my favorite movies from the last year have leaned on the fourth wall,
Nick Really?
Kyle And leaned very heavily. Two movies that I liked that opened very similarly, Amore and Holy Motors both start with a point of view of an audience from a stage,
Nick Ah, yeah.
Kyle And it's kind of setting the tone that "this is a work of fiction"; we're looking out at the audience. And then, especially Holy Motors, you see the director, the actual director of the film, Leos Carax, waking up in a bed and then walking out into that audience.
One of the other movies; my favorite movie from last year was Seven Psychopaths, Martin Mac Donough's second movie. And it starts with a shot of the Hollywood sign, and it's instantly showing you that this is a work of fiction. And the first two characters you see are Michael Stuhlbarg and ... the other guy. And they're both from Boardwalk Empire. You see them, and you immediately think "Oh, those are the two guys from Boardwalk Empire, they're big stars." And they're only in that movie for that one scene. So it's kind of him showing it to you and then trying to tear it down. And he also does the Persona thing, where the screen breaks in the middle of the film.
The whole movie itself is a movie by an Irish guy named Martin, called "Seven Psychopaths", about an Irish guy writing a movie called "Seven Psychopaths".
Cir That reminds me like in comics, the characeters that use it... one of the most popular comic book characters from the Nineties, Deadpool, the Merc with the Mouth. He constantly breaks the fourth wall, in almost every issue. He breaks the fourth wall, and he's another character who's completely insane and is able to do it because he's crazy and has some hyper-awareness, and the readers apparently, I mean, they love that guy. That's one of the characters that's been, in all of the Marvel movies, the biggest uproar has been from doing that character "wrong".
Nick I think that readers might like him more because breaking the fourth wall like that does involve you a little bit more, which is why I think that they use it in kids' movies, kids' TV shows, because it's a little bit closer of interactions, it's not just some character in a show, it's actually somebody that you've, at least in a one-dimensional — a unidirectional way interacted with.
Kyle Which is interesting, because now we're so interested in 3-d movies and being completely immersed in these movies, and you don't really see that much of that sort of addresing the audience. In big, bigger movies, at least.
Cir I was thinking, too, that, is it Pixar? has that history of, at the very end of the credits, there's always the outtakes. It's not quite the same as breaking the fourth wall in the movie, however, they almost make up for it with the outtakes at the very end now, for a lot of the movies. Ok, it's been this big show, and it's really funny to me to see these 3-d set-ups, like camera set-ups, filming... You know what I mean?
Nick That's almost like adding
Cir Like adding an extra layer, an extra universe has been created there.
Kyle There's so little of a fourth wall that they're doing outtakes for something that they clearly don't have outtakes for, realistically. I don't think those bugs are actually falling down.
For people who are really interested in Breaking The Fourth Wall, there's a really awesome video on Vimeo called "Breaking the Fourth Wall Movie Supercut
" by Lee Singer. It's an 8-minute movie and it actually has around, I don't know, probably around fifty different movies and it shows all
Cir every one
Kyle Every single one oof them, and it's edited really well. It covers probably a lot of the movies thsat we're going to talk about later.
Nick We'll post a link on the Facebook page.
Cir That we will.
Kyle It's a really awesome movie short.
Cir Fourth wall: break it when you want. Know the rukles first, then just break the shit out of them.
Nick That'll do it for our discussion of breaking the fourth wall. Coming up next we'll have our Top Five Lists of "Breaking the Fourth Wall Moments".
- I thought this thing was going to be a f{bleep}in' conversation stimulator, man. I was gonna ask you for your Top Five Records to Play on a Monday Morning, and
- We'll do it next Monday.NO! I wanna do it NOW!
Nick Welcome back to the show. Since this week we're talking about Breaking the Forth Wall, we're doing our Top Five Breaking the Fourth Wall Moments. Kyle: What is your number five?
Kyle My number five is kind of a joke, but Muppet Treasure Island. Rizzo and Gonzo, yeah, that's his name, are constantly breaking the fourth wall by addressing the audience. At one point in the movie, Rizzo actually gives a tour of the set of Muppet Treasure Island. And Stadler and Waldorf, of course are in the movie, and they're in the bow of the ship and they make fun of the audience for watching this piece-of-crap movie. I think that it's sort of a funny moment. Cir, what about you? Your number five?
Cir My number five is from Superman The A Nimated Series. I think it's one of the best series DC ever did after Batman. The ending to a lot of the episodes is Clark Kent making a joke and then he winks at the audience at the very end. It kind of shows how badass Superman is, and again, it's accessible to kids, Superman is supposed to be the most emotional superhero that everybody connects with and he's talking directly to you, so you feel pretty good at the end of each one. So, Nick?
Nick My number five is the end of Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the entire cast gets arrested. I fel like when they were making the movie, theyso couldn't think if a good way to end it, so they just thought, "Let's just show everybody getting [?].
Cir I love how it alludes to just how ridiculous the whole movie is, that these guys are getting arrested for all this craziness.
Nick All right, Kyle, what's your number four?
Kyle My number four is ''Fight Club". The scene in particular that I really liked was when Ed Norton's character was talking abiout Brad Pitt's job at the movie theatre, and he explains "cigarette burns" and whike he does it, he points up at the corner of the screen and the cigarette burn pops up and everything. Ed Norton, throughout the entire movie talks to the camera and addresses us, but I think that scene in particular is kind of interesting.
Nick I thonk it combines two types of characters that do it; the main character who is either wise or depressed,
Cir Sometimes both.
Nick and
Cir Often both.
Nick And the trickster, being Tyler Durden.
Kyle Mm-hmm, yeah. What about you, Cir, Number four.
Cir Number four is Last Action Hero. This whole movie is basically about the fourth wall just shattering in this kid's life, and after a movie filled with every trope imaginable, Arnold speaks directly to the audience at the very end. And in my mind it's implying thst his character is much more dangerous than we imagined at first, and that he may be, like, leaking over to our dimension and 'coming soon to your theatre...' to crash through the glass. So, Nick, your number four?
Nick My number four is the end scene from Psycho. It's the monologue that Norman Bates gives. He's not talking to anyone specifically, and he's not actually talking. It's just him thinking, but the entire time he's talking about "I wouldn't hurt a fly" he's looking into the camera, and then he smirks at the audience and it really brings the audience into his mind.
Cir I totally forgot that scene was in there. It's a really good one.
Nick I think that technically, I would consider that breaking the fourth wall. Or at least leaning on it really heavily. It's designed to jsu scare the shit out of you, and back then? Come on.
Kyle Especially 1960's
Cir These are the people who threw up during The Exorcist.
Nick All right, Kyle, what's yiur Number three?
Kyle My number thre is actually Funny Games; either version, really, becauase they're pretty nmuch identical.
Nick Hilarious Games
Kyle Yeah. It's a hilarious movie. This movie breaks the wall, the fourth wall constantly. The two teenagers who are torturing the family, Peter and Paul... Paul winks at the camera several times, and they also address the audience, as like, being entertained by what they're doing, which is pretty sadistic and makes you feel uneasy. Like, the first time they address the audience is them doing all this torturing to entertain us. It was a really strange moment in the movie, and then also, at one point, one of them gets shot and the other one picks up a remote and rewinds the movie so that you can have a re-do of that scene.
Nick He gets shot, and you think, "Finally!".
- "Where's the, where's the remote control? Where's the f[bleep]ing remote control?"
Kyle Yeah, yeah. There's gonna be a happy ending to this movie, but No. The bad guys win.
Nick Isn't... Peter is the guy who talks directly to you during the movie, right?
Kyle Ah, I think they both do.
Nick I thought it was mostly him. That's the one that's aware, I thought.
Kyle Maybe they changed it. Did you
Nick I haven't seen it in a whike.
Kyle Did you see
Nick I've seen both of them.
Kyle I watched the German one
Nick I think that movie, wouldn't that be almost No Fourth Wall? Because he's constantly doing
Kyle It does seem like it woukd be verging on it. Tampering with the fourth wall is something that the director, Haneke, likes to use a lot. He used it in Amore,like I mentioned earlier, with him shpwing the audience from the beginning — I mean, showing the stage at the beginning. And then in Cachet, some people interpret the tapes in Cachet as actually being sent by Haneke to the character rather than it being multiple peopple in the film interacting with each other. He's a very interesting director. He's a disturbing guy. But he always makes movies worth taking a look into.
Nick What I think it does in this movie in particular is, it makes you feel a lot more uncomfortable. Which this movie does, the entire time. But as soon as it acknowledges you there, watching them do what they're doing throughout the movie, it just makes a skin-crawl moment.
Kyle Cir, what was your number three?
Cir Number three is "all the children in the world save Tinkerbell", in Peter Pan. I just think that moment — and I'm pretty sure, I had an old copy of the book and I'm pretty much positive it's in the book also — I just think it's such a great moment, it plays with what is so cool about breaking the fourth wall, and that's the audience interaction.
- Do you believe? Oh, please, please, believe! If you believe, wherever you are, clap your hands, and she'll hear you. Clap! Clap! Don't let Tink die! Clap!
Cir And we've already touched on how powerful it is with children. Every kid — everybody — remembers that who saw the movie. Fairies are kept alive by the belief of children.
Nick Does that happen in the Disney version too, or just in that stage
Kyle The live-action
Nick The live action version.
Cir I don't know. I know I saw the live-action one more than the Disney one.
Nick We'll double check that and post that on the Facebook page.
Cir It's so intense. I like that, how it puts pressure on the children who are watching.
Nick I don't know if you guys remember seeing it for the first time, or if you've ever seen kids; I've watched my daughter and her cousins watch it and
Kyle They clap!
Nick Yeah, they're like "We've really got to get on this!" Real serious about it. It's pretty cool.
Cir Nick, your number three?
Nick My number three is from the series, no, not series, season, season finale of season six of The Simpsons, the episode "Who Shot Mister Burns? Part 1". Mister Burns gets shot in the gut by somebody, we don't know who, at this point in time. At the end of this episode, the entire town is a posible suspect. Mister Burns has injured Bart's dog, he's stolen oil from the school, he's snubbed Homer at work, he's robbed the educational system of Tito Puente, he's blocked out the sun...
Kyle He's the greatest villain ever,
Nick Yeah. So everyone has motive, and he gets shot. The entire town is standing aroundm and Marge makes the comment about "I wonder who could avae done it? Everyone in town could possibly have done it." And Dr Hibbard says, "Well, I couldn't possibly solve this mystery. Could YOU?" and he points at the camera, breaking the fourth wall, and then a split second later, Chief ... he's actually pointing at Chief Wiggum, he says "Well, I guess I'll have to give it a shot. It's my job, right?"
Kyle So it's a fake breaking the fourth wall.
Nick Yeah, it's a fake break in the fourth wall.
Kyle It's also, which we'll touch on in anither episode, "Lampshading", where he deliberately references that they are in the movie. Or in this case, a cartoon series.
Nick What I Like about that, though, is Hibbard pointing at the audience, kind of reinforces that "Hey, this is something that you should be talking about."
Kyle That's right.
Nick And I remember, the summer of '95,
Kyle I remember talking about it.
Nick What else was there to talk about than "Who shot Mr Burns?" before season seven started? And then you find out who it actually was. And they threw in all these fake clues, like him pointing to the West and the South, and maybe it's a "W" for Waylon Smithers, maybe it's an "M" for Marge Simpson...
Cir Dude, it was so awesome.
Kyle I like how you touched on how they used it as a marketing tool. Because it did get all of us involved
Nick And it was brilliant
Cir I remember all the kids talking about that. So funny.
Nick The Simpsons breaks the fourth wall a a lot, and this is one of my favorite instances of it. Probably my favorite instance of it. It was just a a great show that broke so many boundaries and this is a great example of them doing this. Kyle, Number two?
Kyle My number two is High Fidelity, which I think would be an example of No Fourth Wall, because John Cusack's character is constantly talking to the camera. He's talking tot eh camera so much that we're almost, as an audience, made into another character in the movie, because he has conversations, he doesn't just say a line or two. He has full-on conversations with the camera. It really draws you in, and you feel more connected with his character because he's addressing the camera, he's addressing the entire audience. There are pauses where it's like, "I know you're thinking about me, I know I'm a scumbag, I know you're thinking this thought about me because I did this terrible thing." And then that entire scene with the fucking [ Ian?] guy, it's just so awesome — "Number five, with a bullet."
- " I can't fire them. I just hired these guys for three days a week, and they just started showing up every day. That was four years ago."
Nick I think that movie does it better than Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I almost had the movie on my list, but I think thast it happens more often in this movie, and that his conversations are just more genuine, that it gets away with it.
Kyle I would agree.
Nick So, Cir, what's your number two?
Cir My number two is John Constantine, the Hellblazer, from DC Comics. Basically, he's an occult detective, a conman, a magician; he's arguably the most powerful magic user in DC Comics. He has no real superhuman powers, he has no costume, he just knows some magic tricks, he's really good at prepping things, and he has this thing where people tend to die around him.And occasionally he breaks the fourth wall, and I think it's really cool, because in his case, it's meant to show how powerful he is in his own universe. He's this occult character; everything that's behind his character is knowing things that other people don't. He's aware that they're in a comic book, and he seems to have some kind of control over it. That's one of — for this list I was trying to think of non-comedic ways that it's used, and in this case it's directly used to make a character seem more powerful. And it really works. He's such a cool character, too.
Also, the creator, one of my favorite comic book writers, Alan Moore, has claimed several times to have met him in real life at random moments. Alan Moore is a really... uh, he's into the occult, stuf like that. It;s just pretty interesting. Again, Marketing. Let's be honest, folks, marketing. However, very good marketing.
Nick Ok, My number two is — Kyle touched on the same characters, or group of characters in his number five. My number two is The Muppet Movie. The Muppet Movie, from 1979, when Kermit and Fozzie meet Dr Teeth and his band, the Electric Mayhem. They start describing all the adventures they've been on that have led them up to that point, and Kermit stops Fozzie and is like "Why are you re-going through everything we've already done, you're going to bore the audience." And they look at the audience. And he's " Well, how are we going to tell them?" and they hand him a copy of the screenplay.
- Fozzie: Oh, see, Kermit here, he was living in the swamp
The screenplay also acts as another very famous trope, Chekhov's Gun, because it comes into play later, when the gang are stranded in the desert, they need help, and the only way that Dr Teeth and The Electric Mayhem have to find them is that they still have the screenplay from earlier in the movie, so they just read ahead and they know where to go.
It'sa trope that the Muppets used all the time, constantly, through out all their movies, their shows, even in the newest movie, the Jason Siegal movie, The Muppets, they use it constantly. It's just part of their goofy, absurd way of telling stories.
Kyle And to continue with how effective that is with kids, I just watched that with my six-year-old daughter, for the first time,and she, of course, she
Nick She loved it.
Kyle She loved it. I had no doubt.
Nick I watched it recently, because I hadn't watched it in maybe ten years, and there's so much stuff that you don't get aas a kid, even though there's all that very kid-accessible —"dragonfly ripple ice cream", and when they get to the end, and the producer is Orson Welles, like this is something that just didn't hit me at all when I was a kid.
Cir It's something that you had to be an adult to know why that's so funny. Orson...
Nick Kyle, what is your Number One Breaking the Forth Wall Moment?
Kyle My number one is Film/{{Spaceballs}}, which also does it almost constantly. There's a point where, ... I don't know why they go back to the movie, but at one point they need to pick out, they need to figure out where Lone Star is, and they take the Spaceballs VHS off the wall, and they put it in, and they fast-forward, and they're recapping the entire movie that you've already seen. And they're in real-time, and they're acting in front of the movie itself. Really funny.
Nick I love the part where they're fast forward and it's the part where Dark Helmet is "Fast Forward! Never show this again!"
- Dark Helmet: Nonono. Go past this, past this part.
Nick And then when Yogurt is showing all the Spaceballs merchandise. "Spaceballs. the flamethrower. Spaceballs, the lunchbox. Spaceballs 2, The Search for More Money!" And then at the end, when Lone Star and Dark Helmet are fighting, I think one of them takes out a gaffer, and they slice him in half or something. It's really funny.
KyleThe whole movie is just hilarious. When they chase them down and they catch the stunt doubles.
Nick Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. I think Mel Brooks just knows how to do breaking the fourth wall so well. We said earlier that he does it constantly, and this is probably his best movie where he does it. Do your Dark Helmet for the listeners, if he was drinking coffee.
Cir Oh, yeah. "Tooo Hot! Tooo Hot! You fell for the oldest trick in the book. Foo-ooled you. Foo-ooled you!"
Nick Good movie.
Kyle What about you, Cir? What's your Number One?
Cir My number One is Eddie Murphy, he looks at the audience in Film/TradingPlaces, 1983, directed by John Landis. He has a scene where the main characters are explaining to Eddie Murphy how pork works, and stocks, and they say, "Pork, as you would find in a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich." like he's an idiot. And he hears it, pauses, looks directly at the audience, and ... It's used so sparingly, its the only time it ever happens and that's what makes it so funny. It touches on the whole point of the film, that they think Billy Ray Valentine is just a complete buffoon, when in fact, he's a trickster, he's hyper-aware.
It's cool, and it made me think about how the trope wasn't used that much back then, they tried to use it just like in small moments, where it would have the most effect. I think that's what I liked the most about Hottub Time Machine; it was just that one moment, and I kind of think he was referencing Eddie's performance in Trading Places with that.
- "We are commodities brokers, William. Now, what are commodities? Commodities are agricultural products; like coffee, that you had for breakfast; wheat, which is used to make bread; pork bellies, which is used to make bacon, which you might find in a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich..."
Cir That's mine. It's the first one I remember, and my dad, I remember ny dad, when we watched it, telling me what the fourth wall was, and how funny it was that he broke it.
Kyle And nick, your Number One?
Nick My number one is from — it makes my top ten favorite movies of all time, the Oscar-winning, Best Picture — Film/AnnieHall. The scene specifically — he does it a lot throughout the movie, but the scene specifically is when Annie and Alvie Singer are standing in line. I think they're in line again for "The Sorrow and the Pity" which she's seen a million times. They're trying to have a conversation and there's a guy bickering behind them, or not "bickering" but
Kyle He's reviewing a movie or something.
Nick He's
Kyle He's a pompous
Nick He's assaulting a woman with his thoughts about Fellini and Samuel Beckett, and
Kyle In a really floofy way
Nick So wanting to be high-falutin' and just infuriating. And Alvie Singer just stops and is like "What do you do when you have somebody in line behind you like this?" And the guy gets into it with him and is "I teach a class at Columbia. I think I would know." Alvie is like "You have no idea what you're talking about. Let me grab Marshall MacLuhan, he;s right off-camera right now." He grabs Marshall MacLuhan, and he says "You have no idea.You misinterpreted everything I said. You mean my entire fallacy is wrong? How anyone lets you teach a class is beyond me." And Alvie says, "Wouldn't it be great if real life was like this?" It's just such a typically silly Woody Allen Moment. It's so funny.
- Boor: "Really? I happen to teach a class at Columbia called "Tv, Media, and Culture", so I think that my insights into Mr MacLuhan will have a great deal of validity.
Nick I think he's right up there with Mel Brooks in doing it a lot and
Kyle doing it really well.
Nick He really does, And especially in Annie Hall, he uses a lot of different methods of storytelling, he uses the split screen, flashbacks, where they're actually there, looking at themselves in flashbacks, he uses the cartoon device, but I think that my favorite technique he uses is to consistently, repeatedly breaking the fourth wall.
Cir Annie Hall's hilarious. A Nd Woody Allen has directed many films.
Nick This is true.
Kyle Good point.
Nick Not all of them work as well as others, but I definitely think Annie Hall is the pinnacle of the Woody Allen directions.
Kyle Next to Antz.
Nick He didn't direct Antz. But Antz is good.
Kyle He didn't direct Antz?
Nick He didn't direct 'Antz.
Kyle Wow. OK.
Nick I think it's the first movie that he acted in that he didn't direct since, 1969 or something like that. I don't know what I'm talking about, but it's something like that.
Kyle Wow.
Nick All right, so those were our Top Five Breaking the Fourth Wall Moments. Listeners, we'll have a poll up on our Facebook page, you can vote on what
Kyle "Pullups?" Like those things kids wear?
Cir Or are we gonna have like a pullup,
Nick Like a bar?
Cir Like a guy doing pull-ups?
Nick I said "poll up".
Cir like ''Rocky-style?
Kyle Dah- dahhh
Cir Will the audience have to do pullups?
Kyle Duh-dahdah...
Cir "Audience, we need 20 pull-ups from you..."
Nick This will be the first and last episode of "On The Tropes"
Cir How about twenty pull-ups from me? That works.
Nick So go to out Facebook page, Facebook.com/OnTheTropes, vote in the poll for your favorite breaking the fourth wall moment, and join us after this for a game, a little fun for Cir and Kyle here, and a litle fun for the audience as well.
- This is your game, Nicholas, and welcome to it. I'm here to let you in on a few ground rules: You'll recieve the very first key and others will follow. You'll never know where you'll find them, or how you'll need to use them. So keep your eyes open.
Nick Welcome back to " On the Tropes'. This week we're going to introduce a new gane, called "Tropesvial Pursuit."
I have six works of fiction that either employ "Breaking the Fourth Wall" or have no fourth wall at all. Between Cir and Kyle, they will get a clue. They can gues for three points or pass to the next opponent, at which point they can guess or get a hint for one less point, or they can pass it back and the other opponenet can get one les point.
Kyle So for every new clue, you get one less point. That's about it.
Nick The categories are: Comedic Film, Dramatic Film, TV, animation, Video Games, and Literature. Cir, you will go first, Kyle, you
Kyle How did we decide that?
Nick Do we want to do a coin flip?
Kyle No. that's cool. I'll let you go first.
Nick All right, Kyle, you pick his category.
Kyle Oh, really?
Nick Yep.
Kyle Ahhh, Dramatic Film.
Nick All right. For three points: This film's director is the only person to have won two Palme D'or awards at the Cannes Film festival during this century.
Kyle Wait a minute. Does this have to do with breaking the fourth wall?
Nick Correct.
Cir I'm just going to guess randomly,
Nick You'll lose three, or, Kyle will get three poinbts if you're wrong...
Kyle Cool. I'm cool with that.
Cir I'm passing to Kyle.
Nick Ok, Kyle, for three points, this film's director is the only person to have won two Palme D'or awards at the Cannes Film festival during this century.
Kyle Ahh, I want another clue.
Nick All right, for two points, this film is from both 1997, and 2008 when it was remade.
Kyle I'll give it to Cir.
Nick All right, Cir.
Cir I'll [?]
K":Really? I thought you knew. I was giving it to you 'cause I thought you knew.
Cir Well, I kind of figured, — it's not Funny Games is it?
Nick No, two points to Cir.
Cir Are you serious? It's Funny Games? I'm like "wow."
Kyle Wait, what did you say the first year was?
Cir That's why I said it was nepotism, cause you just completely threw two points to your bro.
Nick 1997 and 2008.
Cir And then Kyle, you did not pick up on it. '
Kyle I think the first one came out in '98.
Cir The Internet says '97. From what I kniw aboout the Internet.
Nick Cir, pick the next category for Kyle.
Cir Literature.
Nick Kyle, for three points, this 1973 novel, which features many of the author's sketches throughout its pages, was made into a relatively unsuccessful movie in 1999 starring Bruce Willis and Albert Finney.
Kyle "relatively unsuccessful?"
Nick Mmm-hmm.
Kyle I'll give it to Cir.
Nick Any guesses?
Cir Noooo.
Nick All right, for two points, the Protagonist is Kilgore Trout, who also appears in the books God Bless You Mr Rosewater, Slaughter House Five, Timequake, and Jailbird.
Cir ahhh, Twelve Monkeys?
Nick Incorrect. So that's two points to Kyle. The book is Breakfast of Champions.
Kyle Awesome.
Cir Yeah, the Twelve Monkeys was just a bit blind. A completely blind guess.
Nick Ok, Kyle, since you got thr points, you pick the category for Cir.
Kyle Albert Finney, Interesting. What were the remaining categories?
Nick Comedi
Kyle I'll choose video Games. No, wait, I want that to be available for me later. What are the other ones?
Nick TV, Comedy, or Animated.
Kyle TV
Nick TV. Cir, for three ponts, Cir, this TV series aired from 1989 to 1993, and commonly showed its main protagonist directly addressing the audience on screen.
Cir If I guess and actor that I think was in it, does that count?
Nick You can guess all the actors you want, it won't get you points. But it won't cost you points.
Cir ehhhhhhh... Micheal J Fox?
Nick I can't say yes or no...
Cir Oh, well, then, fuck it. I'm passing it to Kyle.
Nick All right, Kyle, do you want to guess or you want a second clue.
Kyle I want a second clue.
Nick It had spinoffs called "the college years" and "the new class"
Kyle The Wonder Years
Cir Are you serious? That's like
Nick Wrong.
Cir Really?
Nick Yeah. It was Saved by the Bell.
Kyle So you thought Wonder Years also,
Cir I like Kyke's response to the wrong answer
Kyle Who cares.
Cir In it to win it.
Nick All right Cir, you pick the next one for Kyle.''
Cir I'm gonna go Video Games.
Kyle Nice! I better get this on the first try.
Nick This action game from 1997, released initially for Microsoft and Playstation, was the first of many sequels to the highly successful game originally released in 1996.
Kyle I'll just give it to Cir. He probably won't know the answer.
Cir And, you are correct, I do not. All right, second clue.
Nick This game was created by Core Design and features an English archeologist as it's protagonist.
Cir Myst?
Nick Wrong. It was Tomb Raider 2.
Cir Get the fuck out of here. Who gets that wrong.
Kyle Yeah, I wouldn't have got that right either.
Nick You would have goten it after the last clue.
Kyle Does it involve a busty protagonist?
Nick Right.
Kyle Who was a former ambassador?
Nick Actually, I just played the newest Tomb Raider
Kyle That should have been part of it. Pretty obscure.
Nick The word "busty" would have made it to the first clue if you guys woukd have gotten down there.
Kyle Could you say how that broke the fourth wall?
Nick We'll hear a clip from it right now:
- {"The stripper" plays}
Nick She's taking off her clothes and the camera pans up and she says "don't you..."
Cir Dude, that's so obscure!
Nick A litle bit. And then she shoots a gun at you.
Cir That was my gambit, though, that Kyle wouldn't know either. And it turned out, I was right. So who got the points?
Nick Kyle got points for that.
Cir fu...
Nick 'Cause you guessed "Myst".
Kyle Whoot!
Nick All right, Cir, you pick.
Kyle Has anyone gotten a question right?
Cir Who's gotten points?
Nick Cir got Funny Games. It's tied, 4 to 4.
Cir Wow. Comedy or Animated? Comedy.
Nick From 1980, this movie was voted #10 on the American Film Institute's list of 100 Years, 100 Laughs.
Cir Annie Hall.
Nick Three points to Kyle.
Cir My other guess would have been "Ferris Bueller". So I can tie for first? I can't lose?
Kyle When was Annie Hall? I figure like 1979.
Nick '79.
Cir '79? That sucks, I would have guessed Annie Hall too.
“What a pisser!”
Nick That was the number one clue for Airplane!.
Kyle Ah, nice, very nice.
Cir What was the second clue for that?
Nick The second clue was " This film is titled “Flying High” in certain foreign countries."
Cir Ahh, I would have gotten that. Damn.
Nick So Kyle, leading with seven points...
Kyle Animation.
Nick Obviously, taking the last category for Cir. So, Cir, for three points, "This animated film
Cir For three points and the tie...
Nick "This animated film from the latter portion of the 20th century inspired a Broadway musical which won six Tony's (including Best Musical) and is now Broadway's 7th longest running show."
Cir Ohhh, I mean, I know what Kyle's guess woukd be...
Nick This is for
Kyle Oh, wait, it wouldn't be my guess.
Cir Late, latter point of the 20th century?
Nick Mmm-hmm.
Cir So latter point as in "the last .." ok, well anyway.
Kyle So basically, Fifies to 2000.
Nick It's not? That's a Broadway... Thats not your guess then, Cir? Just guess it.
Cir I mean, Who wouldn't guess it, but I can't think of when that happens in this movie, though.
Kyle Wait, when what? Oh.
Cir When they break the fourth wall in this movie.
Nick It's only one particular scene.
Cir I have to go with The Lion King
Kyle I bet it's Timon and Puumba, isn;t it?
- {singing}
Cir That's it.
Kyle Of course, that's like the easiest one, Thanks, Nick.
Nick I like the way the furst episode ends with a tie. That's fun. It's familial.
Cir Yeah, I can go with that.
Kyle Did I get any questions right on that? I did not get a single question right and Cir got two right,
Cir You'd have gotten Airplane right, though.
Kyle Yeah.
Cir Tomb Raider was disappointing.
Cir And I couldn't believe I was one year off with Annie Hall, 'cause I thought "'80" and I knew Annie Hall was right around then.
Nick But Airplane is much more funny than Annie Hall, I will say.
Kyle That's not true.
Nick What!?!
Nick So since you guys got to play the gane, here's a game for the audience to play. And speaking of Annie Hall, here's their clue: "This Woody Allen film which features a movie within a movie that breaks the fourth wall, was partially inspired by one of my favorite silent films, Sherlock Jr." That is the audience's clue. Email your guesses to "OnTheTropes@gmail.com" ; we'll pick a winnerat random from amomg the correct guesses in the next few weeks and you will either get to choose a trope or Top 5 list for an upcoming episode.
Kyle Sweet.
Nick Do you guys know the answer to that?
Cir Noooo.
Nick It;s a toughy.
Kyle I know it.
Nick But you don't want to say it.
Kyle No, I don't want to say it.
Cir Well, I know it too.
Nick Well, that was attempt one at a new game called "Tropesvial Pursuit." And that was episode one of "On the Tropes." You can check us out on Twitter at onthetropes, or on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheTropes, or like I just said, you can email us with criticism possibly, supportive feedback, at onthetropes@gmail.com.
Nick So, asaalways, I have been your host, Nick, and we have been
Cir Cir
Kyle Kyle,
Nick and we will see you next week when we are again, stuck On The Tropes.
- "Mercy. Is the the end of Rico?"
