Headscratchers / Persona 4: Arena

• What happened to Teddie's "body"? I'm sure it gets referenced somewhere in the plot but seeing him always in the costume and slipping through the crack in a locker right from the start of his story was weird.
  • He still has his body. In winposes involving it, he may appear in his normal clothes, cross dressing or outright naked.
  • Ah. It eventually shows up in his story. I suppose until then I assumed the body was always inside the suit. He can just discard it and bring it back whenever he wants. Weird but I'll go with it.
  • Due to it being larger than the suit, many have theorized that when in the costume the body just kinda leaves until he removes the head.
• If this takes place after Persona 4's True Ending, then what happened to Kamui? That was a story event so Teddie should have him instead of Kintoki-Douji.
  • It's been confirmed that Personas can weaken or revert, like untrained muscles. I don't see Teddie as the kind of guy who trains and looks for fights as opposed to hitting on girls at Junes.
  • But the team is on a much longer hiatus in Persona 4, since none of them use their Personas at all after taking down Adachi and Ameno-sagiri all the way to the end of March. That's twice as long as April to Golden Week. Hell, one of Yu's post-fight comments even confirms that he maxed his Yosuke link.
    • What makes me worry is that it openly contradicts Persona 2, as it's hard to believe the Personas of the P4 gang would go from Ultimate Personas to initial Personas in the span of a month, especially with the in-game hiatus in P4 itself.
  • Kamui is in the same place as Izanagi-no-Ookami: as an Instant Kill move.
    • That's not Kamui, it's just the Instant Kill's name. It's still Kintoki-Doji.
  • For those who are wondering why Persona 3's characters still have their Ultimate Personas, I think it has something to do with their being artificial.
  • Except they aren't artificial. They don't try to kill them (like the Strega's did) or anything like that. The most likely reason is that as their job is to deal with Shadow and Persona related incidents, they'd use their Personas on a regular basis, and thus they wouldn't revert back from disuse.
  • The method to draw them out was artificial, the Personas weren't. And even then, both Mitsuru and Akihiko mention in their routes that they don't depend on the Evokers as much anymore, even in the real world.
  • The meta-level explanation would be that the ultimate personas are different in the original release of Persona 4 and The Golden, so they used the normal personas for the sake of consistent recognition.
  • It could be just a canon/non-canon sort of thing thing. In Persona 3, characters acquiring their ultimate persona was both mandatory and a big deal plot-wise. In Persona 4, it was completely optional; you could get through the entire game without obtaining a character's ultimate.
    • Yes, that would work with everybody except Teddie, as his Social Link progresses via the story if you go for anything but the Bad or Normal Endings.
    • Word of God is it's the Cutting Off the Branches explanation of Persona 4 ultimates being optional. Teddie is probably just a plot hole.
    • However, if you win a Versus Battle against Yosuke as Yu, Yu's victory line talks about the memories of the last time they went at it by the river, which is what happens when you max out Yosuke's Social Link.
• What's going on with the P3 timeline in this game? Mitsuru's story opens November 2010. One year after Persona 3. Later in the intro the narrative says that the Dark Hour occured until Spring 2011. Weirder still that would be in the future from when the Public Security Man was narrating from.
  • Someone on the writing team got their dates mixed up. Aigis's activation year is given as 2000 instead of 1999, for example.
    • This game is rife with typographical errors and the like. Just assume that whatever makes the most sense is correct.
  • Persona 3 in itself isn't consistent with dates. For example, Ms. Toriumi all but says the protagonist's parents died in 1999 at the very beginning of the game, yet the letter Yukari receives from her late father is timestamped on March 6, 2000, which is a contradiction because all three died on the same night. The way it makes sense to me is that Atlus fixed the chronology only when developing Arena and decided to establish that the Dark Hour started well into 2000 and ended in January 31, 2010, despite Persona 3 taking place mostly in 2009 and always mentioning the incident "10 years ago". As for Mitsuru's story mode, it begins with a flashback to a year and a half prior to Arena, a little after she decided to reveal some of the secrets of the Ergo Research lab to the authorities in order to create the Shadow Operatives.
• So is Chie "The Carnivore who's Discarded Womanhood" or the "Spunky Dragon with Deadly Legs?" The game can't seem to make up it's mind!
  • The 'Carnivore' seems to be the actual title while the dragon remark is the same as the comments made for the rest of the group.
• When Detective Kurosawa speaks with Mitsuru and Naoto about the "Inaba incident," he mentions that the report was a) filled with references to Shadows and Personas, from the statements of the suspect; and that b) it was submitted by Dojima's "young assistant." How would that work, since the "young assistant" (Adachi) IS the main suspect and he was apprehended? Does he get to report on his own deposition, and the Inaba PD just accepts it? Even if they scoffed at it as fantasy, suspects don't get to draft their own case files.
  • Who said the young assistant was him? It could have been Naoto for all we know. Or someone unnamed.
    • Could that "suspect" be referring to Yu/The MC? You did have the option to spill everything when you were arrested. Then Adachi could have filed the report from there.
    • It was referring to Adachi. The game explicitly refers to the one who filed it as "the young partner of the detective in charge of the case", which would be Dojima. It's likely the suspect was Namatame, since it's stated that large parts of his testimony would be inadmissible in court due to the absurdity of it. Adachi would make sure the report was filed, so if Namatame mentioned the phonecall where he was told to do it a police officer, then it would be considered the ramblings of a nutjob.
• So do we actually have a definite timeline as to who reached the Announcer's Room? Just curious is all. I mean, as much as this troper wanted it to be Yu, it couldn't be possible because he's too exhausted and tired from fighting Elizabeth and he was about to use the full power of the Wild Card.
  • Yeah, the many-stories gimmick is kind of a mess to canonize. Especially since some of the stories happen on the same timeline, like Liz's and Labyrs's or Aigis's and Yosuke's... and it would be one hell of an anti-climax if Liz's "solution" to Shadow Labrys's problem was the canon one.
  • If Nyarlathotep is the Malevolent Entity, it's not out of the question he warped reality/time for each of the characters. That way, he could confront everyone as their 'Shadow' while maintaining the 'game'. Besides, he thrives on making people suffer; he delights in possessing Labrys, so why not several times after another? And why not tearing down everyone with their 'Shadows', even when their Personas don't revert? He probably only stepped away from messing with their perception until some time had passed in the real world, so nobody would get suspicious, at first at least. As soon as the characters share/compare the story, they'll notice the discrepancies in their memories.
• Why is Teddie's Insta Kill called Kamui Kablooey? Kintoki-Douji doesn't transform the same way Izanagi does in the attack.
  • My guess? Kamui Kablooey sounds nicer than Kintoki-Douji Kablooey.
• What's with the ridiculous delay of the release of the game in Europe? Seriously.
  • Unfortunately it's hard to figure out who is to blame. Zen United are notorious for delaying game releases, but there's also the claim that Atlus didn't provide them with the European build of the game. Which, quite frankly, seems ridiculous since why would Atlus want to delay the release of their own game? Either way, it's very hard to work out just what's going on, or who is in the wrong. But unfortunately it looks like Europe will be waiting a very long time for this game, if it ever comes out over here. It doesn't help that neither Atlus or Zen United are giving any information to clearly frustrated gamers.
  • Atlus/Arc Systems didn't supply the European build of the PS3 port until early 2013. To my knowledge, they're still waiting on the 360 version.
• Why no "True Story" path? For a follow up to a game which hammered in that you shoul reach out to the truth rather than accepting the easy path in front of you, this seems like a bizarre omission, since some of the story modes can't be reconciled with one another.
  • In the same vein as Skullgirls being able to add story modes after release, it's unlucky but not impossible further routes, and possibly a true route, will be included as DLC, or... Unfortunately, as a separate release. Remember, this was made by the same crew who are responsible for BlazBlue, which while good, is infamous for its original ending in Continuum Shift getting extended in two different full release expansions.
• In P4, the characters needed to wear their glasses while in the TV world to see clearly. Why did no-one bring them with them this time?
  • Because P4A follows after the True Ending of P4, during which the fog was dispersed. a) The characters that go into the TV voluntarily don't think they need the glasses anymore, and b) the characters that ended up there accidentally or against their will simply didn't have them on their person when they fell in.
• Does it strike anyone else as counterproductive to, in a bid to keep Erebus from reaching Nyx, to transport him to the moon when the moon is the physical form of Nyx? Admittedly, Elizabeth curbstomped him immediately afterwards, but still...
  • Elizabeth isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Fortunately, she transported Erebus to the "Real world" moon rather than the Dark Hour moon. For all we know, the real moon might not be related to Nyx at all.
    • Indeed, the Golden Gate exists deep within the Collective Unconscious, not in any physical plane. In fact, Liz pulled Erebus OUT of the Collective Unconscious to bring it to the plain, ordinary, hunk of rock on Earth's orbit, not to the embodiment of Nyx.
    • Liz isn't too keen on real-world stuff, it's true, but she's not stupid - and as she points out, fighting in the collective unconscious could potentially be disastrous. As long as the Great Seal is intact it doesn't matter what Erebus does, so Elizabeth's plan was likely the safest, most efficient tactic available.
    • Erebus needs to make contact with Nyx's consciousness, not her body. Nyx's consciousness is in the Sea of Souls, while her physical body is merged with the moon. But the Great Seal blocks Erebus in the Sea of Souls, so Erebus can never touch Nyx's consciousness.
• Just a thought that this Troper had: In The Ultimax the track that plays while battling Shadow Yu is reportedly Reach Out To The Truth (First Battle), But does anyone else think that A New World Fool^note Music that plays for the boss fights with Namatame and Adachi in P4 would be a better fit? (unless they have that track saved for Adachi).
  • A New World Fool was announced as a purchasable DLC track the day before Adachi was announced.
• If the P4 cast are using/limited to their initial personas and the P3 cast are using their ultimate personas, does it mean that the P4 cast are stronger than the P3 cast? Does it mean that Izanami was a bigger threat than Nyx? We all know that from the story perspective that Margaret is stronger than Elizabeth and Theodore, then again you can fight her with your team in P4.
  • It was confirmed that the P4 cast had to use their initial Personas because their Ultimate Personas were completely optional in regards to how they only evolve after reaching Rank 10 on the Social Link, though Teddie's is the plothole. P3's Personas evolved via plot, so they had their Personas be their Ultimate forms. It was said that there was talk about the P4 cast being able to switch from initial to Ultimate, but was scrapped in the end. Also, no. There is no greater threat than Nyx. Nyx is literally the end of humanity, meaning she can kill the human race and every being born from the collective unconsciousness of mankind, so Nyx would kill Izanami and even the other godly beings like Philemon and Nyarlathotep.
• How did Labrys summon her Persona in the real world? Yosuke reacts in surprise when Fuuka uses her Persona's abilities outside the TV world, so clearly this isn't a typical occurrence, especially as she blows a hole in the freaking gate.
  • It's not as uncommon as you might think. Mitsuru also did it in her storyline, when she used Artimesia to talk to the police officer who'd begun to experience The Dark Hour. (This was a localized version of The Dark Hour created by the box, so presumably Mitsuru was not experiencing it herself until she entered the room, meaning that she used Artimesia while experiencing the normal flow of time.) Also, when Chidori is in the hospital in Persona 3, there's a scene where her Persona starts to revert to being a Shadow and nearly kills her, even though it isn't The Dark Hour at the time. (Also, her Persona's healing abilities still worked during normal time, which is why her self-inflicted cuts always healed right back up.) Persona summoning is possible in the real world. Yosuke was probably just surprised because he had only seen it done inside the TV world, as there was never an occasion for the Investigation Team to use their Personas anywhere else.
  • Not only that, it's also been implied in P4 that the IT have tried (and failed) to summon their Personas in the real world. (It was from a comment on how Rise laments that she can't use her detection abilities outside of the TV to look for Teddie).It would seem summoning a Persona is harder in the real world without any special aid (like an Evoker), but it is definitely possible, especially if one considers the Word of God that all the Persona games stake place in the same universe, and the characters of Persona and Persona 2 could summon theirs in the real world.
• If illusion!Naoto made comments about Mitsuru's body in the Naoto storyline, then why don't we hear any when Mitsuru and Naoto fight in the Mitsuru storyline? If memory serves, the Naoto illusion just goes on about how Mitsuru distances herself from others, just like the others in her storyline did. Are we to understand that the writers simply didn't bother making both sides of the story match up? Because that seems like kind of an important detail.
  • No two stories match up, that is somewhat of a given in the Fighting Game Genre. The whole point of picking your character is so that they would be the main character, so conversations that happen to them are relevant to their character arc while the conversations for everyone else are irrelevant.

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