Headscratchers / John Wick: Chapter 4

Why a Marquis?

• In previous installments of the franchise it was established that the High Table was composed of various organized crime syndicates from across the world. So, why is a French nobleman like the Marquis de Gramont a high ranking member? Especially puzzling because at no point is it mentioned that he is affiliated with any criminal syndicate.
  • Winston told John that Marquis is appointed to become the de facto leader of the High Table after John killed the Elder at the beginning of the film, which is in part thanks to Marquis promising that he'll finally take care of John Wick by whatever means necessary. It's probable that none of the other High Table members want to dare mess with John, they ceded their authority to the Marquis by default since apparently he's brave enough to go up against the Baba Yaga himself. Since he begins his tenure by punishing Winston and destroying the New York Continental just to prove a point, everyone probably recognizes that the Marquis is the real deal and doesn't contest his power.
  • The answer could also simply be that going into the details of which criminal group he leads would bog down an already long movie, or that (because John doesn't recognize the Marquis' men's badges despite knowing plenty of other important power players) the Marquis is secretive even by the standards of the criminal underworld, with the mystique of where he got his wealth and power therefore being deliberate.
  • It's also not impossible he got the aristocratic title from the High Table. There's a timeskip of several months between Chapters 3 and 4, so it's possible he was called something else before and his road to imperator was preceded by receiving the Marquis de Gramont title. Going by his nationality and Paris being explicitly described as his homefield, he's presumably part of Le Milieu.
  • The High Table may be composed of different crime syndicates, but its organization has a very specific Roman Catholic flavour to it, with its gratuitous use of Latin and religious terms ("excommunicado" being the most recurring example). It's not a far leap to assume that it started as some sort of western European pseudo-religious order before it started spreading out throughout the globe and assimilating other local organizations. And if that's the case, it having ties to said western European aristocracy is also a small leap of logic.
  • It's possible that the Marquis comes from an old family that established a power base through crime and earned a seat at the High Table and maintained that status while also achieving legitimacy and receiving a title of nobility.

Did John Wick kill a man with part of a pistol?

• I probably miss saw something but, did John stab a guy with the lower receiver of a pistol during the stair fight? I know he strips the slide off, throws that at a guy, and then starts poking another with the lower but I swear he ended the dude by stabbing him in the neck with it somehow.
  • He did. A look at the pistol used by John shows that the lower receiver comes to a point. So you could probably stab someone with it, if you were strong enough.
  • It's actually an intentional feature of the Pit Viper's design that both the frame and slide contain sharp points that can be used as stabbing weapons in an emergency.
  • Following on the above answer, the Bowery King points out the "fang" feature while he's giving John his fancy breakdown of the pistol.

Arrow vs Knife

• How can the suits worn by the Marquis' men stop arrows, but can't stop knives?
  • They do seem to be resistant to knives, but presumably (somewhat like actual bulletproof vests) they're good at neutralizing stopping power, not piercing.
  • Quite possibly just a technology trade off; optimized to be able to stop pistol shots but stabbing weapons as a result are able to penetrate.
  • The suits don't stop arrows. Chidi takes one to the forearm and the tip embeds itself in his flesh. It's just that he treats it as an annoyance to establish how tough he is.
  • Slicing across fabric is much more effective at severing threads that jabbing it.

The Ruska Roma leadership

• So we were introduced to The Director one film back - the woman who helped bring John Wick into the fold, helped make him into what he is; described as the leader of the RR, but with revelations made in Chapter 4 now I'm a little confused. For John to have his connection to the RR restored, he had to go overseas - presumable the true headquarters of the Ruska Roma, we then learn matters were complicated as apparently the family head was executed by Killa... but he didn't kill The Director, he killed Katia's father - the man with the authority at the time to help John get back in. Going by this, are we to imply that the RR had to two back to back changes of leadership in a matter of a few short months? Because it feels like in that case, the Director is more a regional head - NY specifically. If she was the head overall, then I'm going to need someone to help clarify what happened here - why wouldn't John have just gone back there to negotiate restoring his family status through her, however touchy that discussion would've been considering what happened last time (other than the plot wants him in Europe of course).
  • Assuming The Director is the head of operations in NYC and that Uncle Pyotr was the overall head of the Ruska Roma syndicate, then it makes sense to go to him, as John doesn't just need his affiliation with the family restored, he needs its backing to issue a challenge to the de facto leader of the High Table. The Director might've had the pull to reinstate him, but it is doubtful that anyone but the highest authority of the Ruska Roma could approve the challenge.
    • There's another explanation to this. See, the Director pledged fealty (and got her hands "stigmata'd"), so she's expressly forbidden from helping John, not that she'd want to anyways, so John has to go to the head of the syndicate.

The Ruska Roma headquarters

• The it is repeatedly stated that the Ruska Roma are a Belarusian crime syndicate. Why are they headquartered in Berlin instead of Minsk?
  • I'm not gonna claim to be any expert, but maybe they're just there for the moment/purposefully shift their headquarters from time to time? The Romani claim no homeland last I remember from my history classes so it kind of fits? to make it even weirder... if they were originally Belarusian, the Romani of Belarus have their own name, aptly the Belaruska Roma.
    • ^As you've said, the Romani claim no homeland, however, the wikipedia page explains some of this. In John Wick's universe, ancestrally, the Ruska Roma (or most of the higher members, like Pyotr and his daughter) are of the Russian Romani tribe but they also have members from Belarus.

Why walk the streets of Paris?

• So John takes a boat ride through part of Paris, then has to walk a long way through the streets himself to get to the shoot out. When everyone very clearly knew he had a giant target on his back and the Marquis was desperate to have him killed before the duel? Did anyone think even for a second that a simple unmarked, non-flashy civilian car would be an infinitely safer bet to get him there without being intercepted?
  • I know the obvious reason is of course for us to get one last chance to see John run a gauntlet, and really show us exactly why has the reputation he does. That said, as I also wondered why he'd didn't opt for a discreet approach to the church, and the only answer I can think of is that well... he knew exactly how it was all going to go down and this was a gambit to help permanently bolster his legend. He clearly has shown throughout the films that if he wanted to, he could ghost his way to the dueling table but I think he deliberately chose not to. At least that's my take on it.
  • Logically, it's a clear weak point but here's one potential answer. He has to approach the church, the nearest he can get underground is still a fair distance away. He then has a few potential options for how to proceed. He can proceed on foot through the streets as he does in the movie, he can proceed secretly via back alleys, or he can commandeer a car. Let's assume that Winston/Bowery King could have arranged a car, John would still have been spotted rather quickly based on the sheer number of people after him leading to a very similar outcome. Personally, I'd have opted for a car, but it's possible John thinks on foot is how they'll least suspect him. Again, logically weak but not unthinkable. A stealthy approach seems impossible since the final location is so exposed and secret routes would be ones the underworld knows about. This leaves what he does in the film as a potential (if again, not ideal) solution. Rule of Cool is in effect, but I do think approaching by car would lead to the same basic events, he'd likely only have avoided the first few fights prior to the roundabout (by which point he has a car anyway).
  • This question is making me consider that the movie setup and missed the opportunity for something in the Paris Catacombs, or do the tunnels not cover that part of Paris?
    • John Wick: Chapter 2 already did that with Rome's catacombs though. It's possible the creators wanted new setpieces.

John's Motivation to kill the Elder

• So at the end of chapter 3, John is betrayed (though not really) by Winston. He is then taken in by the Bowery King, brought back to health, and sets out on his mission. This leads him to kill the Elder which is basically declaring war on the high table and kicking off the events of the film. But why, exactly, does he want to do this? In the first film, he's revenging his dog, in the second, he's fulfilling a blood oath and paying back a double cross, in the third, he's excommunicated and just trying to get this lifted. I get that the High Table are authoritarian, but why suddenly is John's goal to kill them all? When did his vengeance suddenly become vengeance against them? Are we supposed to think (and perhaps there's a hint) that the events of the second movie are directly ordered by the High Table?
  • The premise is simply that Wick got tired of the High Table's constant rugpulls and authoritarian measures after the third film and accepted that the only way he's getting out of this is by killing every single one of them, as impossible as that is. To be noted it isn't clear if he planned on killing the Elder from day one, he says he's just there for his missing wedding ring. He only goes for the kill after the Elder clarifies his ring is gone, so it might have been a spur-of-the-moment decision to some extent allá his killing of Santino.
  • Well, John wants to live his life in piece and quiet. The High Table prevents him from doing that by maintaining his bounty and actively hunting him down. He does not realise yet that there is a "legal" way out that would not result in him becoming either a slave or a deadman. Thus, John does what he does best and hopes to kill enough people to force the High Table to leave him alone.
  • The decision to kill the Elder was made right then and there, for two reasons: First, the Elder told John that his ring is gone, which is a spit in the face, to declare that one of John's most meaningful possessions was simply discarded. Second, what the Elder says to John, piercing through the lofty language he uses, is simply, "You are our slave forever. You will serve us or die." It's not hard to see why this pushed John past any self-restraint he had left. He was unwilling to be a slave, and if he had to die, he'd take down as much of the oppressive system as he could.
  • Nothing says "Fuck you" to the High Table like killing The Elder.

Does John spare the Tracker?

• While it's quick, John appears to have plenty of time to shoot the Tracker after saving the dog. Does he show mercy or are we intended to think he had no time to finish him off?
  • He seems to have noticed Nobody's concern for his dog and sympathized, thus giving him a chance.
  • Also, he noticeably hesitates to shoot the Tracker even before he noticed the dog. Since John is aware that Nobody was keeping him alive, he likely feels a degree of respect and gratitude towards the Tracker, in a similar manner to the brothers duo in Chapter 3. John probably was internally debating what to do, saw the endangered dog and took an easy way out of his dilemma.
  • He could have shot the Tracker instead of Chidi, or saved the dog and then shot the Tracker. He definitely had time for either, and chose to spare him. As said above, this may be a sign of respect or gratitude.

How does Caine read his hand?

• Caine knows what his poker hand is, how?
  • Some poker decks the numbers engraved on the cards (as opposed to simply drawn), providing hard surfaces that a blind man (particularly one who wasn't born blind like Caine, meaning he probably knows the shape of Poker Card numbers and symbols from back when he was sighted) could theoretically identify by touch. I assume that's the case here.
  • Maybe he can still see things if they're close enough?
    • If Caine's vision was still good enough to read a playing card at arms length, there'd be no need for him to learn braille, and he wouldn't need to use his finger to check for a bullet in the chamber of his pistol.
    • Another explanation is that this isn't the first time Caine had to play a card game without his sight, although, it's clear that Caine is blind but it's not said to what extent he can or cannot see.
  • I have a neighbor who is legally blind, but depending on how bright a room is lit, he can still see shadows and shapes against the light. If I recall, Caine moves the cards very close to his sunglasses/eyes before calling his hand. It's possible he is legally blind, but can still see a few inches ahead of him, especially if the print on the cards is fairly large.
  • He does hold them up to his face, but his smirk suggests that was a joke. He then slams them down and (very) quickly runs his hands over his cards, so presumably they were engraved enough for him to read.

Why does Caine only use motion trackers in his first fight?

• The trackers are a clever way to get around his blindness, but he never has them again and it's unclear why he no longer needs the help in later fights.
  • In his first fight, he's dealing with an enclosed space with lots of metal surfaces to attach them to. His later fights don't have that quite as much.
  • Most of the other fights also include other combatants whom Caine considers allies, or at least neutral parties whom he doesn't want to attack. In the one where he does use motion trackers, he's fighting solo, so he knows anyone who sets off an alarm is a legitimate target.

Why does everyone have such undying loyalty to Wick?

• Winston, Charon, The Continental Doctor, Marcus, and Koji all show a loyalty to Wick that gets themself or most of their friends killed. Why? In this hard-bitten world, what code of honor would make a man like Koji fight to the death for Wick instead of living to protect his daughter?
  • The Wickverse is very ideological: most characters are driven by some internal code of ethics rather than pure self-preservation (you can in fact count the latter in one hand: Santino, the Marquis and Mr. Nobody are the only ones that really qualify, everyone else is in varying degrees of Honor Before Reason). As for why John Wick himself, these characters all recognize Wick is fundamentally a good man (by the standards of this world) who has been given a rotten lot in life and sympathize with him. Aside from more specific justifications (Winston, Marcus and Koji seem to have known Wick for most of their lives to the point they're essentially family, for example) most of these characters also recognize that Wick's problems are a symptom of a much larger issue (the High Table's cutthroat powerplays) that will eventually drag them under as well if left unchecked, so they're making a moral stand now.
  • Can't say for others, but for Koji, if we take to the implication from his family name 'Shimazu' as the same as the real life Shimazu clan, which is a quite famous family name that goes back hundreds of years, it's most likely that Koji - like the stereotypical image of samurai back in the old days - is very honor-bound, especially to his comrade in arms and even worthy opponents, which probably explains why he's so loyal to his old friend John and doesn't take kindly to the Marquis's disproportionate attempts to punish pretty much everybody else who even remotely helps John Wick when he couldn't deal with the man himself, which is probably seen as dishonorable.
  • Winston might even be literal family to John if the ending of Chapter 4 is taken to its logical conclusion; as for the rest of them, considering what happened after some dimwit stole his car and killed his dog one can only imagine the lengths John is prepared to go through for those he can considers friends - Koji seems to hint at something along those lines when he says some debts are even greater than the marker. Consider Sofia feels obligated to help John in Chatper 3 despite clearly disliking him on a personal level because he did her a just that large a favor (though, admittedly, this one involved a marker which I completely forgot about; still, a marker-worthy favor is no small thing). Everyone has undying loyalty to John because he likely earned it ten times over.
    • If the first chapter tells us anything, John was quite charismatic in the criminal underground. Even when it'd be a detriment to themselves, people still do John favors, either because he helped them (like Sophia in Chapter 1), because his ties to them allows it ONCE (The Director in Chapter 3), or because they hate the High Table just as much that a common enemy unites them (as is the case with the Ruska Roma in this movie).
  • Notice that all those loyal men are old (except Charon but he is by extension have the same familiarity with John than Winston). They must have had decades spent with John, some probably mentoring him, so when the new generation disrespects Wick the old guard who saw Wick grow or grew with Wick are gonna care more about him than the High Table protocols.
  • This is actually brought up in regards to Koji, who sums up his reasons for helping as: "Friendship means little when it's convenient". John is his friend, so he will help him. Charon certainly has respect for John, but his loyalty actually seems to be Winston, so he will help John as long as Winston does. For this movie, Winston is also quite clearly motivated (in part) by self interest and revenge, John is his best chance at those things-Winston himself might have been able to challenge the Marquis to a duel but he couldn't have won.
  • Regarding the Continental Doctor, if you mean the scene in the beginning of 3, he helped John before his mercy lead ran out. He actually tried to back out of it, and then stopped stitching John the moment the lead did end. Helping him those last few minutes is effectively obeying the letter of the law but not the spirit, possibly out of respect for John and seeing treating a wounded man a personal and professional responsibility. All he did after the time ran out was give John was advice (and medication I think), which was probably just a "might as well see it out" kind of deal.

Why does John go to Osaka?

• I likely missed a part of dialog, but why does John travel to Osaka in the first place? I'm sure he wasn't aware of the New York Continental's destruction at that point; in any case he must have known that anyone else there would have alerted the High Table at the very least, if not try to kill him there and then. Was he trying to get protection from Koji?
  • Caine says "John Wick has very few friends left in the world" right before we cut to this scene, so Wick is either trying to get protection from Koji or (more likely) recruit him to his war against the High Table alongside the Bowery King. Things evidently go sideways very quickly so his plans (whatever they precisely were) went down the drain alongside the destruction of the Osaka continental and the death of Koji.
  • He likely needed a place to lay low and think about his next steps. To continue his rebellion he needs to restock his arsenal, keep being updated about the High Table's activities, arrange for his transportation, keep himself mentally and physically as healthy as he could... The Bowery King primarily operates within New York City and is a known adversary of the High Table, while Winston's loyalties were questionable at the time. Koji was supposed to be beneath suspicion and, being a true friend of John's, was willing and able to provide John what he needed.

Final duel outcome was planned by John, Caine, and Winston?

• There has been discussion on whether or not Caine and John were already skilled enough that they could have killed one another during the first round if they wanted to, or if they were both intentionally avoiding any fatal shots throughout either as reluctant acquaintances or planned. Was it their intention to get that far knowing that the Marquis would want to be the one to deliver the last shot?
  • Winston sure seemed to plant the idea at the museum that if the Marquis were to personally be the one to kill John, it would carry some larger influence by reputation alone. So while it could have been read as trying to get the Marquis to agree to the duel in general, one has to wonder if even though the Marquis had Caine act as his proxy at the end, he was already planning on doing this. One has to wonder what John's plan would have been if the Marquis didn't take the bait and allowed Caine to fire the last shot.
  • It feels like John and Caine only came to this agreement at the last bullet with their cryptic sentences, and personally I think it was just them agreeing that John won't fire the last shot and they mutually kill each other. Had the Marquis not stepped in John would have still shot him in the head in his final moments and Winston's fate would have been left ambiguous since the High Table doesn't hate him like the Marquis does.

Retconning the ending of Chapter 3?

• Parabellum ends with Winston seemingly trying to kill John and John feeling particularly bitter about this betrayal. They do try to acknowledge that the ending in-movie, with Winston justifying to the Marquis that he tried to shoot him even if he survived, but when John meets Winston again in Chapter 4 there seems to be no hard feelings. Outside videos and interviews seem to infer that Winston knew John would be just fine, so is it simply a matter of "I know you did what you have to do so no hard feelings", or is this simply an Aborted Arc?
  • Well, in Chapter 2 John himself killed Gianna, who he was on friendly terms with, because the system demanded it. One could assume that after the initial anger subsided John realised that Winston was in the similar situation and made the same choice John did. Since Winston got into said situation because he was too lenient with John, he just wrote the attempt off. Alternatively, the Bowery King managed to calm John down during the timeskip.
  • Or perhaps, slightly differently, John knew right away (as in when Winston pulled the gun and then the trigger) that Winston did what he had to do. And so, when the Bowery King asked if he was pissed too, John replied in the affirmative but while thinking solely of the High Table, and not about Winston at all. The fact that he fell off the building and took several vicious impacts on the way down as a result of that shooting must have stung really hard, but let's just accept at this point that John can clearly take any level of physical punishment and not actually be at mortal danger until the writers say so (and maybe not even then).

Why wear combat armor?

• Whereas in the second movie, the bulletproof suit is implied to only be as strong as kevlar (ignoring a lot of how kevlar actually works), in this and Chapter 3 it seems like the suits are a lot tougher which begs the question: Why wear weighty and cumbersome combat armor when the lion's share of what's going to be shot at you can be stopped by a fabric lining that doesn't seem to add any additional weight.
  • Most likely cost and pragmatism. Word of God is that the gold coins acts as tokens that allow the bearer access to services and that there is still a monetary transaction that needs to be made. The suits John and others (like Cassian, Caine, and Gramont's mooks) wear are all high-end and tailored, which cost thousands of dollars in the real world. The tactical linings would up that price significantly. So, the suits provide protection but also serve to show that those who wear them are the upper echelon of the underground society as they can afford such luxuries. When needing to outfit a group like the emissaries, or needing protection as a work-a-day assassin, it's more affordable and practical to wear equipment that is standardized and mass produced.
    • No one's selling more affordable non-tailored bulletproof garments? A tracksuit with the bulletproof lining? Perhaps at least ready to wear or made to measure bulletproof suits?
  • The armor worn by the High Table Elite Mooks is shown to be capable of stopping multiple 5.56mm rifle rounds, something soft body armor can't do.
    • But other than John using assault rifles twice before conveniently stopping a movie before these guys (and the Taran Tactical product placement) started showing up, they're the only ones who ever bring intermediate cartridges to a fight.

People ignoring the carnage around them?

• In both Killa's club and the streets of Paris, all the violence seems to be an Unusually Uninteresting Sight. Even if in the latter case the cars are just trying to get out of there, why do people still dance in the club when all the fighting's going on?
  • Some of this might be Fridge Brilliance. With the criminal underground being such a force in this universe, wouldn't y'all get used to the goings of said underground, too?
    • In universe, I think that desensitization is the correct answer, but out of universe it is a question of aesthetics. You could have the crowd drop what they're doing, pull out their phones and start chanting "WORLDSTAR!" but that would go against the cool, sophisticated aesthetic of the films. There is also WMG that the world of John Wick is effectively what the Matrix would look like to people who don't know they're in it, so most of the background people are literally NPCs
    • Another simple in-universe explanation is, look at the setting. Its a rave club with loud music, and drunk possibly high people dancing having a good time. They probably didn't notice, or in their intoxicated minds thought the fighting was just part of a show or something, and the loud music is drowning out the sounds of gunfire. But if you look closely you do see people gawking at the fights, and towards the end of the scene people actually ARE frightened and rushing out of there.

Why did John not challenge Santino D'Antonio to a duel in Chapter 2?

• It seemed like John met all the requirements outlined in Chapter 4 to do so after clearing his marker. Even with a second taking his place in the duel itself Santino would still have to leave the safety of the Continental to be present at the duel's location (leaving him vulnerable), or risk forfeiture and presumably his own sanctioned execution.
  • John himself did not think such thing to be possible; to him it was at best an outdated rumour. Now, had he "walked away" and consulted with Winston on what to do next Winston might have told him the about it. As it was, he was not desperate and angry enough to put his neck on the line until after the Marquise blew up his kingdom and killed his best friend.
  • Because Santino was right there. It is not a coincidence that the Marquis and John share the same country only when John offered a duel John would have gone straight for him once possible even if it didn't solve anything because John is angry and when he is angry he kills a lot of people. His favorite time for the duel would be right now.
  • In this film proper The Marquis (the High Table's chief representative, remember) himself initially scoffs at the idea of a Duel and has to essentially be pressured into it by Winston preying on his ego and what a duel could do for his position, making it clear that the idea of a Duel is extremely remote and only worked this time as a hail mary of desperate times for both Wick himself and the High Table. It's also important to note that this film says only a member (or representative) of the 12 seats of the High Table can challenge another, meaning Wick would still need to get the permission of the Ruska Roma's head (Uncle Petyr, presumably) to issue a challenge to Santino, and the Ruska Roma had 0 desire to grant Wick that in Chapter 3 (only going for it in 4 because the Marquis decided to directly antagonize them).
  • One of the criticisms leveled at this film is that the idea of the duel seems to have been created just in time to provide John a way out, when it could have been useful in prior films. But otherwise note that (1) John himself didn't know in this film they were real, so he clearly couldn't have used it previously (2) the opponent apparently needs to agree to it (which Winston does by playing the Marquis' ego), and (3) John was too angry at the end of the second film to do anything other than shoot Santino in the head right then and there.

Why did Koji ordered fire?

• Despite Caine ratting out John and the hotel being deconsecrated as a measure, Chidi and his men were ultimately retreating from the standoff (albeit temporarily), so why did Koji ordered his men to shoot anyway? He could have used the extra time to safely plan and execute John's escape from the Continental instead of triggering the bloodshed immediately. That is the kind of measure that strikes as neither intelligent nor honorable.

Why was John left to die at the end?

• The last scene of John shows him staggering down the steps of the church to die alone. But unlike with Spike in Cowboy Bebop, John's friend Winston is right there, yet he never seeks medical aid for John at any point. They're in the middle of a city in France, a country with modern, socialized healthcare; Winston is filthy rich, and could easily bribe any suspicious mandatory reporters to not ask questions (if they bother to at all, given how giant crowds of assassins on the street is apparently an Unusually Uninteresting Sight); and we know John is not a Death Seeker, otherwise he'd have just shot the Marquis without heed for the consequences instead of bothering with all the rigmarole surrounding the terms of the duel. So why would Winston waste time having a heartfelt pre-dying chat when he could have instead been taking steps to prevent John from dying in the first place?
  • Because John is a Dead Man Walking , And the fact John is fucking tired after going through shit for 4 whole movies , Man Deserves peace, not chased till he drops dead killed by an assassin.
  • Winston and John probably both recognized Wick's accumulated wounds were fatal and there was nothing to be done other than letting him die in peace.
  • Shortly before the conclusion, John told Winston what he wanted written on his tombstone. The implication is that John didn't expect or even much want to come out of the duel alive, but that he did plan to ensure Winston lives and can carry out John's burial request. John is a Death Seeker by that point: he just wanted to make sure his few remaining friends and allies - Winston, Caine, the Ruska Roma, etc - will officially be in the clear with the Table once he's gone.

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