Headscratchers / Darksiders

New entries on the bottom.

Black and Red angels

• Is it ever explained what the Black and Red "Angel" monsters you fight are? I kept waiting for an explanation, but neither the Watcher or the Hellgaurd ever comment on them.
  • I always assumed they were fallen angels given that the game was based on the Bible's version of the Apocalypse and there was some mention of fallen angels and whatnot in there.
  • Except a fallen angel is a demon, like on a definition level. I assumed they were just the max level angel enemy you fought. Their color notwithstanding on that, they have the same voice and same model as a "normal" angel, just red and black.
  • Eh, doesn't sit right with me. The Reds and Blacks never fight with the "Standard" Hellgaurd formations. They look twisted and corrupt, and only attack with themselves or the demon forces.
  • Keep in mind that this is Not your daddy's Armageddon, and line by line descriptions of what goes on in the Bible need not apply. The original Demons appear to be their own race with their own kingdom. WMG the black 'angels' are the fallen remnants of Heaven's army that was shut out of heaven after the battle (the majority of the game does take place a century after the premature Apocalypse) but didn't stick with Uriel and the Hellguard and were trying to tough it out on their own, the red angels were the ones who fell a bit further and actually sided with the demons for more power.
  • I thought that the blueish-green ones were undead angels or something, given the presence of plenty of undead in the game already. The red ones seem to be corrupted and/or evil angels.
  • Fallen Angels are not demons in this setting. Angels and Demons are their own races entirely, the Nephilim come from their own, original, background and nothing else seems to be consistent with mythology. This game is to Judeo-Christian mythology what God of War was to Greco-Roman - as in not something to try and expect the same rules to apply. The red angels work alongside demons so it's very easy to peg them as Fallen Angels and I'd say that's almost certainly what they are.
  • According to Official Strategy Guides they're Fallen Angels. Blue/Green are lower ranked, while the Red/Black ones are higher ranked.

Water pumping

• The water pumping system still works after 100+ years.
  • 100 years since the End War was started. They never say how long ago the last human died, or when the population dropped below the level where they could perform maintenance.
  • One of the characters was originally going to be the Hunter, a super-badass last survivor type, and you can hear gunfire in the background in a number of places. Humans might not be quite gone yet.
    • They're definitely not gone, the Hunter features in one of Darksiders II DLC's.

Celtic giants

• I know it might sound a little stupid, but... Where do the Celtic giants appear in the bible? (Also: Was I the only one who was absolutely sure Ulthane is going to be some kind of lovecraftian terror once he was referred to as "One of the Old Ones"?
  • Well, since we hang out here, it's pretty much the first thing we think of when that phrase comes up. But, I believe the idea was meant to evoke Ulthane as being a literal "Old" "One", or someone who's really freaking old. Like, pre-christianity old, which is why he has a generally different mythology around him, ie. the hammer, the forge thing, the overgrown terrain and weird rune doors. Oh, and the accent. As for why he's there, well...
  • He's definitely some type of Celtic pagan god. Basically, the old religion that was replaced by Christianity. It's a trope that is leaned heavily upon in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow as well. He's Pan, but more badass.
  • For the record, in Darksiders verse the term "Old Ones" seems to apply to any race older than Angels and Demons, and thus usually uninvolved in the Forever War between the two. The Horsemen are technically Old Ones as well.

War and Abaddon

• Uh, Uriel...? Straga killed Abaddon, not War. You saw Straga kill him! War had nothing to do with it!
  • She thought that War had jumpstarted the apocalypse. She knew that he didn't directly kill Abaddon, but it would have been entirely his fault had she been right.

War's horse

• So... how and when exactly did War displace his freaking horse? I can understand that Death and Strife were just messy and left their weapons lying around for Vulgrim and Ulthane, respectively, to snatch. But a horse? Wouldn't he try to return home by himself? Also, no one ever comments on a Horseman missing his horse, not even War himself when he sees some demon riding Ruin!
  • War spent 100 years outside Earth. Ruin was most likely waiting for him there when the Apocalypse started, and when no one came, it just didn't really care to run away from those others guys: I like to think that he was literally just waiting for War to return and kicking some ass while at it.
  • On a tangent, I got the impression that the Mercy you get from Ulthane was a copy he made, rather than Strife's personal peacemaker.
  • Ulthane was hammering away at something immediately before giving War Mercy. So it's incredibly likely it's a copy.
  • Considering that Strife was busy at Earth killing demons, helping out Ulthane and saving what's left of humanity. It at least explains where Ulthane got the idea to make a copy of his gun at such a time...

Death

• Ok, Death will be the protagonist of the sequel. but how will that work? he's said to be nigh invulnerable which would lead to boring invincible hero. Unless he gets stuck with a power nullifier or something and the goal of the game is it to get that thing off again.
  • He's going to be a Fragile Speedster. It's unclear if its a retcon or if his power was limited somehow, but that's how he's being played.
  • Death shrugged off being impaled by War, but Chaoseater still damaged him. He's tough, but he's never been portrayed as impossible to injure. It's likely that's he's just too badass to show pain at such a minor injury as a sword through his chest.
  • Some of the developer interviews that have been released imply that his lack of a block move is more a result of his fighting style, rather than a lack of physical power or durability.
  • Per Word of God, Death doesn't block because of his arrogance. He's not willing to show pain or even acknowledge that someone could hit him which is why he doesn't block. He prefers to zip around, using his speed and skill to dominate his foes instead of crassly standing toe to toe with them like equals like some common warrior. He called him the Raphael (Ninja Turtles) of the Horsemen family to put it in perspective. And, this part is conjecture, but it's possible that Death might not be nigh invulnerable, just impossible to permanently kill. In the comic it also looked like there was some magic at play when he let War impale him (the purple mist... tentacle... things) so that may have helped.
  • Most of the powers the Horseman posses were granted to them by the Charred Council who, as evidenced in the beginning of the first game, can take them away if they want to. Trying to proof his brothers innocence could be in direct violation of the Councils orders so they may have have stripped Death of most of his powers, invulnerability included, which would also explain why he's starting out on level 1.
  • Confirmed. Lord of Bones says that "On this path, you do not serve Balance and you are denied your full power". All 7 Seal had not been broken, so all Horsemen were not at their peak power.

Seals

• So why exactly did Abaddon break the 6 seals, and why not the 7th as well?
  • Because the 7th seal calls, releases, and empowers the Horsemen, and everyone is scared shitless of them. A large reason why the Endwar was started early was because Abaddon was worried about what would happen if they were allowed to participate. It's not quite clear what their role was supposed to be—probably fighting alongside the humans, or maybe just making sure the rules of the war were adhered to—but Abaddon didn't want them involved.
  • Ah, so he wanted to start the apocalypse, just not with the horsemen?
  • Exactly. Well, being able to attack the Third Kingdom without humanity being ready was probably also a point - it's better to fight a war against the Demons you know how to fight, then against them AND humans that know how to defend themselves.
  • Abaddon didn't want to attack the humans, but acting at a point when they weren't a threat would simplify matters. Abaddon thought that the forces of Heaven would be able to defeat the forces of Hell at that point, but he wasn't sure if they could in the future, or with humans in the mix. Certainly not with the Horseman riding around.
  • Okay, so maybe it'll make more sense when I play the game instead of just reading wiki, but Abaddon wanted to start the apocalypse to destroy the forces of hell?
  • Abaddon is an angel in this game, so yes. He was the leader of Heaven's armies, destroying the forces of Hell was his job.
  • From the comic, he wanted to almost start the apocalypse and kill the demon leadership in The War Room by a surprise attack. I guess that since he was betrayed, the demons were waiting for him and it quickly devolved into a full-blown Endwar.

Destroyer

• Also, following off above, if Abaddon is the Destroyer, then why did one of D's generals—Straga—destroy his boss?
  • The Destroyer seems to be a title for the Devil's Dragon. There was another Destroyer before Abaddon, who was the one in charge of Hell's forces for the early parts of the Endwar, including the part where Abaddon was "killed." Some woman (implied to be Lilith, mother of demons) rescued Abaddon and gave him a chance at power in Hell, which he took. Probably by killing the previous Destroyer. In hindsight, that might explain why there were so many demonic factions running around—with the previous Destroyer dead, there were no orders coming down except regarding the Chosen and guarding the Black Tower.
  • It's been a while since I played the game so I might be wrong but as far as I remember there was no Destroyer before the Apocalypse. The universe of Darksiders doesn't seem to have a Devil or a God.
  • It's never rally explained. The Council technically only states that the Destroyer led Demons during the Apocalypse. Since Abaddon died at the very beginning, it's possible that the Destroyer emerged shortly afterwards and conquered the Demon lords (Samael and Straga included), unifying the Demons under his rule, thus giving the impression that he was behind the Endwar from the start (well, since he's Abaddon, he was, but in a different way).
  • It's actually entirely possible that there was a previous Destroyer who led Hell's armies. I've always thought that it was Samael but that, for whatever reason, Lilith decided to power up another more pliable individual. This requires having read the comic of course for it to make any sense though. On the other hand, speaking strictly from what we know about the game, it might be that Straga was the initial leader and getting whupped by War made "the mystery woman" give power to someone else instead.
  • Random point to bring up, but there IS a God and Satan in Darksiders. Samael mentions he doesn't like the "company" Satan keeps now with the Destroyer. God and Satan are still in Heaven and Hell while their troops join the Endwar.
  • It's likely there was no intention to make Abaddon the Destroyer until after he died.

Abaddon's gift

• So what was Abaddon's gift from the Tree?
  • Maybe the plan to start the Endwar early.
  • Or perhaps it was the location of the seals - I don't remember if it was ever stated, but I think it was at least implied that they were kept in a secret place that only the Council knew of to prevent shenanigans exactly like what Abaddon attempted.

Stabbing War

• So what exactly did Uriel accomplish by stabbing War with the Armageddon Blade (aside from completing her death oath that had no bearing on the plot anyway)? Would it be any different, if she went straight for the Watcher and the seal?
  • She completed her death oath. That was the point. She had to kill him (or be killed by him) sooner or later; may as well do it a few seconds before she activates something that could bring him back to life. Also, it distracted the Watcher.
  • She was giving him a cleaner, more merciful death than the Watcher would.

Surviving stabbing

• How did War survive getting stabbed through the chest by Uriel?
  • The breaking of the Seventh Seal. When the End Times come and the Horsemen are working in the name of the Balance they are powerful enough to scatter demons in their wake. So when the Seal was broken War likely assumed his full measure of power and was able to shrug off that little pinprick.
  • Stated word for word in the sequel that the seals have the power to call the horsemen back, even from oblivion; AKA: nonexistence

Samael's rebellion

• So, Samael said that War seeing his journey to its end would explain to him why he rebelled against Lucifer, and mentioned it having do with his "master's company"... and all War finds out is the Destroyer is Abaddon. That really doesn't explain much, unless Samael was lying just to mess with him, which doesn't fit what we've seen of him.
  • Two options. One: When Lucifer appointed an angel as his Destroyer, Samael was pissed and left. Two: War's journey isn't over yet.

Nephilim Toes

• Okay, I know War's boots are pretty heavy duty, but they don't seem to bend at the toes whatsoever, which can't be comfortable. When he's pulling objects, he literally gets up on tip toe like a majestic ballerina. Death also seems to lack toes, or his boots do the same thing as War's. So what, do Nephilim just have no toes? Why on Earth would the devs not bother to animate their boots bending like every other person's footwear? It's just always struck me as jarring.

100 year gap

• Why does War arrive on Earth 100 years after the beginning of the invasion of Earth? The Council wants War to hunt down those responsible for the invasion, they should want him to accomplish this in a timely fashion. Having him arrive a century after the fact gives the culprits plenty of time to get away scot-free, destroy evidence as to what really happened, make the consequences of the invasion even more irreversible, and launch other plans that make the situation entirely worse. The dialog while War is in the Council's chamber indicates that the scene is taking place 100 years after the invasion, as there have been power shifts and political intrigue in the demonic ranks since the invasion started (and we later learn that he was kept in the Abyss for those 100 years). Later games have scenes of War chained up, but there doesn't seem to be any point where this could possibly happen, as from his perspective, he was plucked straight from the invasion to get the third degree from the Council, and then immediately sent back to Earth. Did the the Council just not feel like pulling him out of the Abyss and confronting him for a century? Just... WHY!?

Everyone's screwed and nobody cares

• Why does nobody seem to care that the entire plan for this universe is shot? The Council was convinced that humanity was essential for the balance and it really seems like their participation in the End War is really important. Yet nobody seems too concerned that this pillar of existence is completely gone and that the universe is, as far as the audience has been led to believe, completely doomed. The Council apparently did nothing to actually stop the illegal war between the demons and angels that was tearing Earth apart; why didn't they summon the other Horsemen to bring a stop to it? Or do... anything at all to try to salvage the situation? It seems like their only goal is to punish those responsible. Even Death in the sequel is mostly trying to restore humanity to help War by "erasing his crime" (not that that makes any sense, either, just because your brother returns money you stole doesn't make it so that you never stole that money) rather than any duty to the Council or the balance. Hell, Death is depowered in II specifically because his quest to revive humanity "isn't in service of the balance". Why are everyone's priorities so inexplicable?

Why trick War?

• Why did the Council feel the need to screw over War to give him motivation to hunt down whoever was behind this? Regardless of who did it, the truce between Heaven and Hell was violated, and the Council was entirely within their rights and duties to launch an investigation that would doubtless end with heads rolling, and War would've dutifully carried it out. Even if they were confident in their ability to do so, deceiving War is a completely unnecessary risk, not to mention that it involves depowering him, making it less likely that he'd succeed.

Abaddon's plan

• Why did Abaddon think that his plan would work? The Council wants the End War to consist of an equal three-way fight between Heaven, Hell and Man. There is an enforced truce between Heaven and Hell to ensure that they don't tear each other apart before Man is ready. Abaddon wants to break six of the seals to get Hell's leaders to gather, take them all out at once, then re-forge the seals. Then... what? The Council sides with them? Wouldn't the Council be really pissed at the angels for annihilating the forces of Hell? Even if the Council thought that there was something fishy about the demon commanders gathering, unless the demons actually attacked either Heaven or Man, the angels have no justification for fighting them, and especially not rendering them incapable of fighting back. And even if the demons did attack, couldn't the Council just send in the Horsemen to put a stop to it, making the angel attack illegal vigilantism? And even if it did work and the Council deemed the angel's actions justified, it wouldn't matter because they'd just place Hell under the same non-intervention protection as Man until they're ready for the End War again, while keeping Heaven on a VERY tight leash. So long as Heaven is incapable of overcoming the Horsemen, the Horsemen remain loyal to the Council, and the Council remains invested in the End War, there is no way for Heaven to truly triumph over Hell, so why even try?

End War?

• What is the plan for the End War, anyway? If the conflict between Heaven and Hell had been getting so bad that it risked all of creation, then wouldn't adding in a third power make it even worse? What is the Horsemen's part in this? Are they to act as a fourth faction? To ensure that each side remains equal throughout the War? If that's the case, then what's the point of even having a war if the Horsemen will ensure that it ends in a three-way tie? Some dialog indicates that the Horsemen will be charged with destroying the wicked... are they to ensure that only good people end up fighting to the death, or just act as an anti-war crimes unit? When does the war end? When one side is gone? When there's only one left? What circumstances in the post-war world will each side be fighting for? Is the Council trying to set up a stable peace afterwards, or do they intend for factions, either the same old ones or new ones, to grow strong again and eventually fight another End War? In that case, what's the point? Just seems like not enough attention was given for why the player should want to get things back on track or dislike the people who derailed it.

Seals?

• What exactly is the deal with the seals? I assumed that they would be broken one-by-one as Man achieved certain milestones on the way to becoming strong enough to fight the End War, but it seems like none of them have been broken by the time Abaddon got his hands on them. Surely a modern industrial mankind warrants at least two seals being broken, right? If that's not the case, and they're just to be broken all at once when it's time for the End War, then why have seven at all? Do the individual seals have any particular meaning or purpose, or is the "seventh seal" just whichever one is arbitrarily broken last? I know that breaking the seventh seal signals that the End War is to begin and recalls the Horsemen, even from non-existence, but does anything happen when the others are broken? If so, then why did Abaddon think that he could get away with re-forging the seals after breaking them? The whole point of breaking the seals was to scare the leaders of Hell into gathering for a war meeting, but if Hell would just know that most of the seals were broken, then surely the Council would also know, meaning that the Council would immediately doubt that the seals hadn't been tampered with, which makes it even more inexplicable that Abaddon thought that his plan was going to work.