Headscratchers / Bleach Ichigo

• Does Ichigo still have his Hollow powers, or was a note made of him losing those completely? I mean, he certainly hasn't used them since his re-empowering, but Ichigo never liked those powers anyway, so I'd see that as being in character.
  • It can be assumed he lost them (Bleachwiki supports this) considering Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu merged and every subsequent powerup was based upon said merger.
  • Chapter 538 suggests he still does have his inner Hollow, seeing how his Asauchi looked like it had a Hollow mask.
    • And in Chapter 540, we get solid confirmation of it.
    • The recent Light Novels - which Kubo has either partially written himself or at least directed and provided created guidance - contradict this; stating that both the Hollow and Qunicy portions of Ichigo's powers returned not too long after Yhwach was killed/Defeated. Some might argue the canonical nature of the novels but with Kubo being one of the writers of one and giving direct creative consultant oversight on the other(s), I think it's safe to treat them as Word of God until Tite Kube says otherwise.
• Why is Ichigo treated as the main character of the series? Everyone knows Shu-chan's the one who saved Rukia and beat Aizen.
  • Everyone also knows who Hollowfied out of complete rage and completely obliterated an enemy he was facing. IMO though, Bleach follows Ichigo. Bleach is Ichigo's story, not Facebook's.
• How did Super Hollow Ichigo's Cero (Or the ensuing explosion) do such a piss-poor job at eradicating Ulquiorra when it was fired at point-blank range? It's not like the super Hollow was holding back, and Ichigo didn't weaken it or stop it by willpower because he was dead before the Hollow even took over. Here you can see how big the explosion was and here you can tell that it was so powerful that it sent spiritual pressure down to everyone else.
  • This can probably be attributed to Ulquiorra's regeneration abilities.
    • That really isn't a good enough excuse when you consider how Hollow Ichigo aimed the cero so close above where his head is, and how huge the explosion was. It should have AT LEAST blown off Ulquiorra's head seeing how it got his innards, left arm, and left leg blown away (Which were all farther away from the Cero than his head).
    • He tried to run away, the blast still hit him but in a different place.
    • The most likely solution I've found is that honestly speaking? It did zero damage to Ulquiorra at all. It's a goddamn cero, they rarely tend to do more than slightly char if that on an opponent who is not drastically weakened already, uberpowered or not. See Grimmjaw's Gran Rey among countless other examples. Now the reason the lower body is missing? Not three seconds earlier he completely cut it off in a single swordstroke. What likely happened was the resulting cero and gaping hole beneath him just tore the already cut off bit completely off and knocked it down the gaping hole. The angle is the same and the damage is near perfectly straight, bar a slight bit on the edge, and the positioning is only slightly lower then where the sword stroke hit, which could be attributed to either regen or horrible wound continuity. Wouldn't be the first time either. Certainly explains why his top half is completely untouched despite it being point blank to the head while the bottom half is just plain gone.
    • Or Ulquiorra just focused his healing mostly to his head and it healed super duper fast while the ensuing explosion blew up his "less needed parts".
    • Or you're all overthinking this and Ulquiorra was just strong enough to weather the blast.
• If Ichigo was moving as fast as he could when he was fighting Byakuya, would it kill him?
  • No more than getting thrown through buildings would, which is to say not at all.
• Ichigo's wildly inconsistent power bugs me. Let's look at Soul Society arc. Ichigo beats Kenpachi with his frigging Shikai. Afterwards, he gets two massive power upgrades - Bankai (incidentally, the effect of it at the moment seems to be looking shiny as I can't remember the last time that Ichigo was actually faster than anyone with the exception of Byakuya) and the control over his Superpowered Evil Side. This tells me that Ichigo at his current power level should be able to crush Zaraki without any effort whatsoever. So, the Espadas arrive. Ichigo gets his ass handed to him by Grimmjow multiple times. Only with every single shred of power at his disposal - with both his Hollow and Bankai active not to mention with supreme heroic motivation is he able can he defeat Grimmjow. But what's this? Zaraki - when he gets serious - owns Nnoitra, someone who's even more powerful than Grimmjow was. So, someone who got his ass handed down to him by no!Bankai no!Hollow Ichigo somehow pulls a win against an opponent even more powerful than one Ichigo was almost crushed multiple times by? Something doesn't work here.
  • Ichigo had just fought with Grimmjow, and that wore him out. My theory is he was just too tired to fight at the time and just wanted to grab Orihime, Rukia and the rest of the group and get the hell out. Kenpachi on the other hand, I have no clue...he's just that awesome...?
    • I'm not really talking about his fight with Nnoitra. I'm just comparing. 1. Everything points out that Ichigo is vastly more powerful than Kenpachi at the moment. 2. Nnoitra is more powerful than Grimmjow. 3. Ichigo had some huge problems dealing with Grimmjow. 4. Kenpachi - once he got serious - wiped the floor with Nnoitra. Something doesn't work here.
    • Yeah, something doesn't work here. One could argue that Kenpachi wasn't serious when he fought Ichigo the first time...but I don't think so, he looked incredibly serious. I guess he could have been training, but for now, this is a Plot Hole.
    • It's not that he wasn't serious, it's just that Kenpachi has a habit of matching his opponent's power to let the fight last longer, like he never takes his eyepatch of until his opponent proves his stronger than Kenpachi with it. The only reason his fight with Ichigo ended in a draw was because Ichigo's only chance at victory was a single exchange with all his power, and Kenpachi practically just said "Hell, why not" to it. If they fought normally Ichigo would've gotten cut to ribbons.
    • There are a few theories about the battle (though Plot Hole is more likely). We kinda knew Kenpachi was more powerful than he looked when fighting Ichigo after his fight with Tousen and Komamura (where neither could touch him once they started fighting, and before Tousen used Bankai). To fight Kenpachi, Ichigo drew on Zangetsu's power, which gave him a massive power boost. If that is a permanent powerup, and all shinigami have it, then the Captains would be horribly weak without their Zanpakuto (Ichigo went from above Vice Captain level to Captain level right away). So perhaps it was a temporary powerup, and Ichigo just fights with his own reiatsu later (and his Inner Hollow, after learning his Vizard powers). We also know that Zangetsu and the Inner Hollow are one the same, so when Ichigo draws on all the power of Zangetsu, its possible he is drawing on the power of the Inner Hollow too. So really, Ichigo in that fight was using all his reiatsu, and all Zangetsu's reiatsu (potentially all the Inner Hollow's reiatsu too) - when he fought Byakuya, he was using just his own, in Bankai or not, and even when he fought Grimmjow, he used his own and the Inner Hollow's. Sure, it doesn't take into account Ichigo personally growing stronger over time, but with all the talk of Ichigo's immense reiatsu...maybe he just pulled all of it out temporarily to defeat Kenpachi. An early version, powerwise, of the Uber-Hollow Form that wiped out Ulquiorra.
    • Could be. But this would make it a horrible case of Forgotten Phlebotinum. And didn't filler (yeah, I know, it's filler but still) imply that by using Bankai you're drawing on all the power your Zanpakuto can provide you with anyway?
    • As I interpret it, Bankai puts the power of the Zanpakuto to a certain use (so Komamura's would form the giant, Byakuya's the millions of petals). Ichigo's isn't that great, since all it does is compress his own reiatsu, making him faster and stronger (but it leaves room for improvements to the Bankai). On the other hand, what Ichigo did against Kenpachi converts all that reiatsu to raw power - effective against Kenpachi, maybe, but as Ishida said WAY back, anyone who is using 100% of their reiatsu constantly is going to tire out very fast. The power Ichigo used there could be an example of Awesome, but Impractical.
  • The reason is because he's trying to fight with his sword now instead of just alone. He shifted philosophies after his fight with Ichigo, recall?
    • I interpreted that scene as a failed Secret Test Of Character on part of Zaraki. Remember that he said "* I" want to become more powerful" when talking to his sword? And it certainly looked like he was angry with it for not revealing his name? I dunno, this would be a pretty big character development, I think it would've been mentioned and that scene certainly looked like Zaraki failed to convince his Zanpakuto to work with him.
    • Kenpachi might have got a mild boost thanks to the Zanpakuto - remember when Zangetsu commented on Kenpachi and the Zanpakuto weakening each other? If he is at least trying to listen, both he and the Zanpakuto could be stronger, if that weakness is removed.
    • On the other hand, it's established that Zanpakuto are the external manifestation of a shinigami's reiatsu, so it always bugged me that Ichigo was able to draw upon Zangetsu's power as if it were an external power source.
  • And there's also the whole "two hands are stronger than one" thing. He was only matching Nnoitra at best until he started using two hands. It's only afterwards that he started wiping the floor with him. And, when Kenpachi was fighting Ichigo, he was just wildly swinging his sword around with one hand. And that battle was pretty much a tie anyway.
    • I figured that Kenpachi was always stronger than Ichigo; he just didn't use his FULL full power because that would've ended the fight and the fun. He knows no-one is ever going to survive his two-handed attack, so he just uses that as an 'Oh well I've got to stop this fight now' attack. He basically was getting his ass handed to him by Nnoitra when he was trying to have fun with the fight, but then he thought 'right, I'm going to die so this isn't fun any more'... or something.
  • Kenpachi was having trouble with Nnoitra for a fair portion of the fight, until he used his previously unseen "kendo" technique to kill him. He may have won against Tousen, but Tousen's Bankai was mainly about depriving the opponent of senses, and didn't have much in the way of attack, so once Kenpachi figured out the trick, Tousen was finished. According to Ganju, Byakuya's spiritual pressure is similar to Kenpachi's, so not only is he very strong, but he also has Bankai. Byakuya is also one of the faster captains, so while Ichigo got in quite a few hits on Kenpachi, he had to put more effort into dodging Byakuya's attacks, especially his Bankai. Kenpachi may have a lot of spiritual pressure, but Byakuya's more skilled, superior in other respects, and overall, the better warrior.
  • This is also important, because Byakuya vs Kenpachi reminds me of their Battle Data. You can't put it in clearer terms than that. To be precise: Kenpachi has 390. Byakuya has 510. Ichigo defeats Byakuya. So Ichigo has at least 510 as well. Kenpachi-390 defeats Nnoitra. Ichigo-at least 510 (he only defeats him when he jumps even higher than that, thanks to mastering his Inner Hollow) gets thoroughly owned by Grimmjow. Nnoitra>Grimmjow. That's pretty clearly a Plot Hole.
    • I don't think the battle data is supposed to be a 100% accurate indication of which character is better than which other characters. Besides, it's based on several completely different categories. Maybe one unit of strength doesn't have exactly the same value as one unit of speed, etc. I think there's more to the characters than just those numbers.
    • Yeah, you cannot compare the stats very well - look at Komamura, for example. He had, IIRC, 100 for strength and reiatsu - the same as Kenpachi. But as we saw before, even with the eyepatch on, and with one hand, Kenpachi was far superior to Komamura if he didn't use Bankai. Basing it all off those stats alone, Hitsugaya is better than Ukitake, who is supposedly, illness issues aside, on par with Shunsui, who pretty much said that he was better than Hitsugaya to Starrk.
    • Ichigo can only have, assuming all his other stats are maxed, at highest a 500. It's literally impossible for him to have higher than that by simple virtue of him having no knowledge in Kido, like Kenpachi. And really, I'd argue he's maxed too, as his defense more or less needs improvement and frankly his speed, which previously, excluding Bankai, was on par with Byakuya has experienced a downgrade (even in said Bankai, if ORIHIME can block something Ichigo can't react to, a guy who previously blocked thousands upon thousands of petals from all directions at once). Frankly if I were to estimate, Physical ability and Reiatsu at 100, speed at around 90, Defense 70, Kido 0, Intelligence (Ignoring CUT MY ARM AND LEG OFF) 70, Ichigo'd have around a 430. Though that can be argued.
    • It's not impossible for him to have higher stats. He's a Shinigami-Hollow hybrid, remember? The whole speech of Aizen's where he tells that this is how you bypass the limits of Shinigami body? But yeah, he has been nerfed after SS arc and this is why this bugs me so damn much.
    • Whoops, meant 500 counting only the shinigami side, my mistake. Much like the actual stats I didn't take into account extraneous powers like Zanpakuto abilities an the like, hence didn't take the mask boost into consideration either. Basically that's just the 'base' ability as it were. Like I said though, it can be argued.
    • The primary reason Kenpachi's overall stat count is so low is because of his 0 in Kidou-Reiatsu stat, which actually stands for "Reiatsu control", i.e. one's ability to focus and control their Reiryoku (Spiritual Power), regardless of its actual level, which is also the basis for Kidou proficiency; massive amounts of Reiryoku are totally useless if you can't prevent them from prematurely overloading your spells and ruining the precise balance that their success hinges on (Renji's a prime example of that). Kenpachi is known to have loads and loads of Reiryoku that is implied to be even greater than Ichigo's ^* who himself considered to have abnormally high Reiryoku level for someone who hasn't received even basic training in that regard, both before and after he gained his Shinigami powers., yet self-admittedly has absolutely no level of practical control over it beyond some ability to apply minor focusing to it, as well as increasing his already absurdly high Reiatsu output. I am firmly convinced that if the characters' actual Reiryoku reserves are taken to account, things would very different.
    • Let's not forget that the info given in those datasheets was written in the early days. We have seen plenty since then to put their current validity into doubt; Yamamoto had a 60 in physical stats, yet what we see against Wonderweiss flies in the face of that, Kenpachi is more resiliant than the 80 he gets for defence, which is the same as several characters who have been shown to be a lot less durable, Gin gets 80 alround, yet we never see him use kido at all making it a case of Informed Ability. For all his alleadged swordsmanship, Hitsugaya isn't worth the 80 he scores in attack. Hell, Byakuya probably deserves 100 in kido instead of 90 after chantless Bakudo #81 against Zommari.
  • Because Ichigo was trying to defeat Nnoitra with skill. He defeated Zaraki with his immense amounmt of Spiritual Pressure and nothing more whereas Nnoitra was simply too strong for him. Zaraki is still more skilled than Ichigo, he just lost because he had less Spiritual Pressure. Of course, there's still the matter of him beating Byakuya...
  • I always interpreted as Zaraki purposely matching the level of his opponent to lengthen the fight. He seemed widely capable of withholding his reiatsu to ridiculous extremes. Another plausible theory is Zaraki's powers were not nearly at full capacity due to him just pulling off his eyepatch. Perhaps, there is some delayed response of some sort. Another theory is a flaw in Zaraki's power is his dependency on it. Putting this in gaming terms, his "magic-defense" would be god awful, while Ichigo's goes to infinity+1. And to toss out yet another. When Ichigo "powers-up" we see his hollow face in his reiatsu. That could have been the tipping point, something no captain would have be able to anticipate, much less defend against at this stage.
    • It turns out that Ichigo's wild fluctuations in power was a plot point. Old Man Zangetsu isn't actually Zangetsu, and he's been holding back most of Ichigo's power, only ever giving him enough to keep from getting killed. Though he kind of sucks at that "keep him from getting killed" bit, but that's a whole other thing.
    • The above ignores the fact that that's the fourth explanation we've been given for Ichigo's power flucuations. It's not so much a plot point as it is Kubo coming up with excuses for why he doesn't have to write the character's power levels consistently.
    • Is "all of the above" really that incomprehensible? We've known Ichigo had massive strength he just couldn't use since the Gillian fight (Uryu even spelled it out), and now we understand why there's so MUCH held back.
• How come, just before the fight with Byakuya, Ichigo took down three vice-captains with just a single solid blow each, even though to even get to that level, they would have had to have trained for years in how to even just get up from something like that. And that's not even bringing up the fact that Renji got back up after being sliced by thousands upon thousands of miniature blades with enough strength for another attack.
  • It's not unreasonable to say that the three vice-captains are on the lower end of the rankings. We have Isane, who is essentially a medic, Marechiyo, a lazy fat-ass (his brief show of prowess during one of the recent arcs could be attributed to him wising up to how rusty his skills were in the time between) and Sasakibe, none of whose combat abilities are known about aside from the fact that his zanpakutou is a rapier. Renji, on the other hand, has worked hard enough to achieve Bankai (which means he's getting pretty close to a Captain promotion) and was taking a turn being The Determinator.
  • Because at that time, he's already captain strength himself? Do you think that Zaraki or Byakuya or any other captain would have problems with destroying lieutenants like that? As for why he skipped those years of training - he's a shonen protagonist.
• How on Earth was Ichigo able to repel the soukyoku, a weapon that has the power of a thousand zanpakutos. By all rights, it should have just broken through and killed them both. Or is Ichigo's zanpakuto more powerful, despite it having been broken several times before?
  • It has the offensive strength of a million zanpakutos, but it's unclear what that means, exactly, or what a zanpakuto's strength is (Is it the strength of a sealed zanpakuto, or is it in terms of spiritual pressure?)
    • Doesn't say how strong those Zanpakuto are; could be 1 million Asauchi of Shinigami barely worthy of the title, or it could be a million Ryujin Jakkas. We'll likely never find out, as it has no reason to be visited again.
    • Theory time: I always figured that it may tie into Isshin's origins. Remember that soukyoku could be destroyed by something that belonged to the Shihoin family. My guess is that Isshin is probably related to them by blood (or has some other status - maybe a member of the Royal Family or is a noble in some other way) and the soukyoku couldn't hurt a Shinigami of such descent.
  • Wasn't the Soukyoku part of The Shihoin family? The same family that Yoruichi is a part of? I always figured that the medallion attached to Ichigo's cape (there's a good shot of it here and here) -which incidentally- looks an awful like the mark of the Shihoin Family was responsible for him being able to stop the Soukyoku.
    • It's stated just a few pages later that that cape was given to him by Yoruichi, but it just let him fly. I don't think it had anything to do with him breaking it.
• I found Ichigo's crushing advantage over Yammy strange, especially since Rukia notes that Ichigo's eyes "are not the eyes of a man prepared to slice down the enemies to come," which would seem to indicate that he's fighting under a potentially crippling handicap due to feeling like his inner hollow won the fight against Ulquiorra for him, thus leaving no reason for him to be doing as well as he is. But then in the spoiler for the next chapter, Yammy, barely wounded, turns the tables on Ichigo, forcing Byakuya and Kenpachi to rescue him..
  • You're saying Ichigo had an advantage over Yammy which shouldn't happen because he's under a handicap (that, and Yammy is the 0th Espada and should therefore be way stronger than he is), but then they fix it next chapter by showing Yammy barely wounded. That's not a "crushing advantage", then.
  • Which brings another issue to light: Ichigo in hollow form barely cuts Yammy with his strongest attack, while Byakuya (who shouldn't be that much more powerful than Ichigo's non-hollowfied form) slices Yammy's leg clean off?
    • Kenpachi probably has the Kendo 'hold the sword with both hands' thing going for him while Byakuya's got the element of surprise. I'm willing to bet that come next chapter, Yammy'll just admit that he got hurt because he didn't see them coming, wipe the floor with both Kenpachi and Byakuya, and people will still complain about some sort of power scale as if it matters.
    • Ichigo's heart isn't in it. No will to fight/win, no power.
    • If the above is true, that could really explain every imbalance we see in Bleach. All the "who's stronger than who" arguments make perfect sense if you just ignore Ichigo's fights.
    • The only reason it's not making any sense in the first place is because, IMO, you guys are treating this series like Dragonball Z, in which 8000 < 9000 and that's it. If you ignore all of Ichigo's fights, you might as well be ignoring his multiple handicaps, his being weakened by consecutive battles, his determination being a factor in his power, and other crap that explains his situation just fine.
    • However, it's gotten worse. Third Division Captain Whose Name Escapes Me implies that his power is twice that of a captain... yet he can't beat Panini or whatever his name is without his hollow mask, while the many other mask-less captains are easily beating Espada. At this point, I think he's a Saiyan.
    • Actually Kenpachi sliced it clean off. Which is either better or worse, depending how you want to look at it. Frankly, I say the powerscale only makes sense if you completely ignore all Ichigo's fights. He's both simultaneously too weak and too strong at the same time to make for a consistent scale.
    • It was definitely Byakuya that did it. Kenpachi complains that Byakuya stole the first attack and Byakuya responds that he arrived first.
    • Byakuya stole the first attack by firing off Sokatsui. But right after that, on page 20, you can see Kenpachi standing behind one of Yammy's legs - which is then cut off. His sword is drawn, Byakuya's is sheathed. He talks about cutting Yammy into pieces. Really, makes more sense if Kenpachi did the cutting.
    • Although Ulquiorra did say his power is in constant flux, so that makes it all better then.
    • While he did say that, the implication of the scene in question, as well as the fact that this fluctuation has never been addressed since, heavily implies it was due to the fact that when Ulquiorra noted it Ichigo was attempting to suppress his hollow from taking over his body.
    • It's more than just that. Ulquiorra commented that at the high point, Ichigo's power exceeded his own. Even if he was just talking about his sealed form, Ichigo couldn't handle Grimmjow's sealed form without his mask. Ulquiorra was including the hollow's power in that assessment.
    • Uh, I said suppressing his hollow from taking over his body. Kinda like what happened in his fight with Ulquiorra. It's pretty obvious that, had there been takeover achieved, that would have been the high point he was talking about.

• How and why has Ichigo managed to keep that one portion of his cloak on this whole time? It's just a sleeve and a few strands of cloth. We can see that it's clearly not attached to the the rest of his clothes or wrapped around his neck, so shouldn't it just fall off?
  • Rule of Cool, possible Fanservice and Rule of Sexy for girls.
  • Well, from what Ichigo says, his coat is a part of his Bankai, so it probably just sticks to him.
• Why didn't Ichigo get himself regenerated before going off to fight Yammy?
  • When he went out of "super-hollow mode," his high speed regeneration instantly healed the hole in his chest, and possibly his other wounds, too.
  • He also mentions in the latest chapter that he was in too much of a hurry to wait to be fully regenerated.
• What's up with the seemingly wildly-fluctuating speed of Ichigo's Bankai? The whole point of it was supposed to be that it allowed him to move at ridiculously fast speeds, to the point where Byakuya couldn't even see his movements. Despite that, Ichigo in Bankai form has been consistently outrun and outmaneuvered by characters like Ulquiorra and Stark. Would Byakuya be unable to keep up with these two as well? Then why was Byakuya able to run laps around Zommari, who claimed to be the fastest among the Espada? It's entirely possible that Zommari was full of it when he said that, but this does not change the fact that the whole original point of Ichigo's Bankai has been consistently outclassed.
  • The reason Ulquiorra is able to dance circles around Ichigo is explained in a recent chapter, and Ichigo didn't really notice Stark until it was too late.
    • What was said reason?
    • He was unable to read Ulquiorra's movements.
  • Just a theory here: Maybe Ichigo isn't using the same Bankai anymore. I mean... In the fight with Byakuya the Inner Hollow is slower than Ichigo was at top speed (otherwise... just imagine the circular petal deflecting move with Getsuga behind each slash). Fast forward and Hollow Ichigo shatters Ichigo's Bankai after stabbing him... while within the mindscape. It is general amongst mindscapes for occurences to be more symbolic than in reality (see: Zangetsu's hatred of "rain"). So it is probable that Ichigo cannot access the exact Bankai he had against Byakuya - instead using the slower Bankai that can better perform Getsuga Tenshou (at this point I reference the Inner Hollow's constant superiority in the mindscape fight - technique to technique the white Getsuga overpowered the black one).
    • This Troper is pretty sure that the reason that the white Getsuga overpowered Ichigo's, is because Hollow Ichigo simply uses it better. Should be pretty obvious since, overall Hichigo is a better fighter than Ichigo in every aspect.
    • As for the speed of Ichigo's Bankai I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that, it isn't the fact that its speed dropped, but that Ichigo isn't using its full speed, because his body can't take. During his fight with Byakuya, when he noticed that Byakuya was getting faster, Byakuya corrected him by saying that it's not that he is getting faster, but it's Ichigo who is getting slower. Implied that his Bankai was so fast, that his body was breaking down, because of the strain of using it to move with that isane speed. So it's not that he can't move with that speed, he just doesn't do it so as not to weaken himself during battles. Well either that, or Kubo simply forgot about it...
    • This one's actually really simple. It was Ichigo's Hollow that comments on it. Ichigo's maximum speed in Bankai is retardedly high, to the point where he's doing a Flash Step by just moving. However, human bodies - and by extension, the obviously more-flesh-and-blood-than-most-people-give-them-credit-for Shinigami bodies - simply cannot handle that level of strain. Too many factors are involved. At the speeds Ichigo appears to be moving (he is literally showing up in after images around Byakuya at one point. Not just one, but multiple afterimages) he should be flaying the skin off of his muscles and the muscles off of his bones by sheer wind force, not to mention snapping anything that he tries to move to change angles. However, they're superhumans. So, as Ichigo's Hollow explains, he's breaking his bones apart with each motion. He basically is faster than he can handle. That being said. He managed to stand against Byakuya quite well for a good amount of time with his super speed. He should at least be able to use it as a desperation move.
    • I actually realized this by watching Gaara from Naruto. Byakuya is good at flash step, but due to the way his Zanpakuto work, he fights mostly stationary. Ichigo is like a Tiger Bettle, his eyes can't keep up with his max speed, but in this fight, he dodged Byakuya's attack simply by moving on out of the way, and since his target was mostly put, he always had to attack at the same location. This means there are several possibilities as to why he's slower later on. One is that he has to slow down to not hurt himself (going faster as his resistance raises), another is that he is moving as fast as his eyes can keep up (going faster as his eyes skill gets better) or that he moves as fast as he can read and react to his targets movement (the reason he can match up Ulquiorra later on)

• Okay...why the hell did Ichigo just float there and do nothing while all the Captains fell for Aizen's hypnosis?! I mean, Ichigo could see through it so why didn't he tell the Captains to stop what they're doing sooner?!
  • Well, since Aizen's hypnosis controls all of the senses, it could be that Aizen didn't LET them hear him. For all we know, he could have been shouting the whole time, and Aizen didn't let them hear until it was too late.
  • Also, despite that portion happen within about 30 pages to us, all those quick attacks were probably happening in mere seconds to all of them and Ichigo was probably so shocked that they were butchering Hiyori that he couldn't react in time to stop them.

• So exactly WHY did Ichigo use the Final Getsuga Tensho? By the final fight he's so far above Aizen in power that he could have utterly curb-stomped him any time he wanted. He catches Aizen's blade bare-handed; every swing of his arm destroys mountains; he rips through a chanted Black Coffin without even trying; takes a direct hit from a nuclear explosion and gets only a singed arm; and by the end of it he's so unconcerned that he just lets Aizen grab him and hangs around in his grip for a while before effortlessly breaking out. So having proved beyond all shadow of a doubt that this fight is essentially the same as, say, Kenpachi vs. Hanataro, he chooses to permanently sacrifice his Shinigami powers?
  • Ichigo might have wanted to end the fight in one shot because he felt that if he let it continue Aizen might pull out more tricks under his hat. Take note that during that time Aizen was cocky and hadn't used his Shiki or Bankai yet. Also for all Ichigo knew Aizen could evolve even further and make the fight even more bothersome. Thus by ending the fight in one shot was a attack that was sure kill he wouldn't give Aizen the chance to clear his head and pull out something stronger or evolve further.
  • Well you see that he constantly keeps regenerating, I mean Gin blew a all his upper side and he still recovered, I think that the plan was using the biggest, strongest most destructive attack to be as throughout as possible and it still didn't actually kill him it was like the fight with Majiin Buu fron Dragon Ball Z.
  • Remember this is Aizen. He might have wised up later on and used his Shikai and then Ichigo would be fucked. And then there's the Fridge Brilliance that points out that Ichigo would be just like Aizen. What else would he do? Other option was to lose his powers and start all over.
  • So, why didn't he use his Shikai? He could have owned Ichigo completely if he had. Come to think of it, even all his tranformations from his McGuffin aren't as sure a way to kill someone as just using his Skikai anyway. Also, Overpowered Ichigo + Hollow Mask + Bankai speed + 20 or so Getsuga Tensho's from different directions = Probably more power than Mugetsu, cosidering the damage from that was only a single line through the ground (Remember, Ichigo at this point swinging his sword cut mountains).
    • The complete hypnosis of Kyoka Suigetsu wouldn't work on Ichigo. The target has to see it being released, and Aizen has to say "shatter" to do it (both to release and reseal). He already knows the process and abilities (which none of the other shinigami or vizards knew when he showed to them) when he starts saying "shatter" Ichigo looks away (since he's so fast a good strategy would be to flash step to Aizen's back in a position where he can see Aizen but not the sword) and avoids the effect.
    • That fight is not QUITE as one-sided as people make it out to be. Ichigo lost the use of his arm from that attack, which is approximately half of his attack strength, and it also means that Aizen had gotten much stronger from his transformation. The bigger version didn't do anything to Ichigo because he didn't let Aizen finish shooting it in the first place. Then you have the fact that he JUST saw Aizen regenerate from a direct slash to his chest, which only left a shallow wound in the first place, in his previous form, so clearly, swinging a sword at him wasn't going to kill him. And the name "Final Getsuga" kind of implies that the next Getsuga he uses is going to be the big finish.
    • That wouldn't have worked for two reasons: in the manga Aizen said he wouldn't have control over what someone like Ichigo would see were him to use his shikai against him (and he said that to an Ichigo who only had shinigami powers, that wouldn't have worked at all against Dangai Ichigo), secondly it's said in the newest novel he is unable to use his bankai against people who hasn't seen his shikai previously).
• Chapter 432. Ichigo now has a Fullbring that basically mimics his Bankai. Later (Chapter 445), his Fullbring changes to mimic the time he had his shikai. Is that all his Fullbring does, mimic his previous experiences? Or is there something I'm missing?
  • For that matter, why is Ichigo a Fullbringer to begin with? We've been told that Fullbringers had their mothers attacked by Hollows while pregnant. Since Ichigo is a Fullbringer, I suppose we're meant to assume Masaki was attacked by a Hollow while pregnant with Ichigo, but wouldn't this have been brought up at least once? "Oh yeah, remember that time Masaki was attacked by an unseen force [while pregnant]?" Also, it just comes right out of nowhere. "Ok, Ichigo, to absorb our power you must first awaken your own Fullbring which has never been mentioned or even hinted at before." "Cool."
  • Fullbringers have a PARENT who was attacked by a Hollow before they were born; it doesn't necessarily have to be the mother. Isshin is a Shinigami, so it's only natural to assume that he was attacked by a Hollow before having a child with Masaki. His sisters can probably use Fullbring as well, if they wanted to.
  • The scanlation I read specifically noted the mother needed to be attacked while she was pregnant. As for him having a fullbring and it mimicking his former powers, think about it for a second: There's nothing indicating that Ichigo's mother was attacked while she was pregnant, but Ichigo himself went through the hollowfication process. Unlike the other fullbringers, the hollow that affected him was born from within him. His hollow powers and shinigami powers are one in the same, so it makes sense that his fullbring powers, which are based on his hollow powers, are also on his shinigami powers. Meanwhile, everyone else's fullbrings are probably based on the power of the hollows that attacked their mothers when they were pregnant with them. Yes, I realize that this contradicts the whole plot point about him losing his powers permanently, but Kubo immediately retconned that fact at the beginning of the arc by making it possible for Ichigo to even use a fullbring. With that being said, this means that, even if he didn't lose his fullbring in chapter 459, he probably wouldn't've gained any cool new powers from his fullbring on its own, sadly. Hey, at least this means that the Vizard have a way to regain their powers in the event that they lose their powers.
    • Actually it doesn't have to be the mother, they said one of the parents was attacked by hollows, but the mother has to have the hollow's essence trace in her body which the baby absorbs during pregnancy (why women in labor should stay away from hair dye and masked demons) so maybe the father is able to pass the essence to the mother.
    • Thinking about it further, in 459, does the fact that Ichigo lost his fullbring also mean that his hollow powers have been completely removed from him as well? Yeah, he still got his old powers back, he's clearly wearing a new outfit, and Zangetsu looks different, but Ginjo did apparently steal his fullbring and those are based on hollow powers... Could this mean that Ichigo and Zangetsu were supposed to look like that originally? Before learning the name of his zanpakuto, he started to turn into a hollow, so maybe that had something to do with his and Zangetsu's appearance. Then again, you'd expect the unique look to be a result of the hollowfication, not the other way around...
    • The way I see it, after taking to Zangetsu and fighting him (and his hollow fusion form) Ichigo's Zanpakuto as a whole reached his true form (kinda like how his fullbring went through stages to reach his true form). His clothes were part of his Bankai, so maybe his shikai has reached a level where it affects his clothes too (just like his Bankai clothes were slightly different on his final battle with Aizen, these are altered too).
    • Okay, here’s the full story behind Ichigo’s Fullbring that was spelled out across the arc, but nobody was actually listening apparently. Hollows form themselves by taking souls and reshaping them in accordance with their hearts. Fullbringers are people who are HOLLOW enough to do just that, just to less of an extreme. Ichigo still had one spark of spirit energy that wasn’t burned out, but probably would’ve taken much longer than Ichigo’s lifespan, human or spirit, to actually go anywhere by itself. But there was enough to slightly tug at the soul he’d given his Substitute Badge every time he used it or even thought about it. His heart’s attachment to the badge revolves around helping him be a Shinigami, so of course Fullbringing that badge makes it into the ability to do JUST THAT. To the point that it will force his spirit energy back into business and then draw it out. It didn’t just MIMIC his Shinigami abilities; those WERE said abilities, as drawn out by the Badge Fullbring. And once his energy was back up and running, getting back to his pre-Mugetsu level was just a matter of rehabilitation. When Ginjo stole that Fullbring, he just stole the power OUTPUT; the strength itself was still in Ichigo, and Rukia’s group just gave that power a new valve.
• Okay, question: If Ichigo has been able to see and hear ghosts (and therefore Hollows and Shinigami) all his life, then how did he go fifteen years without encountering any evidence of Hollows or Shinigami until the first chapter of the manga/first episode of the anime? If Shinigami are always (supposed to be) konso-ing Pluses and Hollows are supposed to keep trying to eat them, then why hasn't he seen any doing just that while he interacts with the Plus Souls?
  • There is the exception of his interaction with Grand Fisher and Masaki, etc etc. He saw that. But, I guess it's mostly for plot purposes. But if we want to go crazy theory fans, then it might have something to do with Isshin, who might have been doing more protecting in the background, until his son reached a certain age? Maybe Urahara and co. were busier? Maybe as a child, Ichigo's spiritual pressure wasn't so high as to attract as many hollows as it did later.
    • Given that hollows are attracted to spiritual pressure, and Ichigo and Karin have it, that's probably it
• Chapter 459. Ichigo's powers came back. Yay. Does this mean Ichigo will have the same level of power as he had when fighting Aizen? Bring in the Deus Ex Machina, and watch the story break, Kubo. Again.
  • To be fair, Ichigo got Reiatsu from Kenpachi.
  • And basically, every Captain and lieutenant in Gotei 13.
    • He should be. I mean, his practice swing was as powerful as his original Getsuga Tensho. That should mean he's at least close to as powerful as he was against Aizen (back then his swings cut mountains. Seems that's what Kubo is trying to tell us). I'll be honest, if he is that poweful, but the Sorting Anthogram Of Evil means that the enimies he'll face will be even more powerful than Aizen was, I won't complain (although it wouldd seem a lot like Dragonball Z).
    • It was stated before that his reiatsu was about twice to three times that of the average captain. Now his reiatsu is, logically, about 26 times that of the average captain. Ergo, it makes sense that he gets a 13-fold increase in output.
    • Wait, 13 times his power fighting Aizen? Then his sword swings would blow up, what, cities? Kubo wouldn't do something that stupid, would he? Maybe they didn't give all their Reiatsu. I mean, if they did, wouldn't they lose all their powers?
    • Thirteen times his level BEFORE Final Getsuga Tenshou Training, not after. He's in Classic Shinigami Garb, after all.
    • Okay, so however much it is exactly, he's got a lot of Reiatsu. That's fine, he might need it.
    • Ginjo stated his Fullbring increased his power, hence the neck guard and X-shaped bracers and chest straps. By how much has yet to be revealed.
    • He also is only in Shikai. Ichigo should be amazingly powerful now. He has at minimum his shikai, with his getsuga tenshou. But it stand to reason that he should still have bankai. (Which was 100x as powerful as shikai they said forever ago). The costume seems to say he still has some fullbring powers, and thus he might even have his arrancar powers. Ichigo should by all rights wipe the floor with Ginjou and his crew.
    • Bankai increases Reiatsu by 10 fold, not 100... But it seems like the Shinigami -are- crushing Xecution, even with their power boost. Who is even left for Ichigo to fight, barring another asspull? Squad Zero?
    • That leads to another question - if he has his Bankai, will it be the one he used against Aizen, or the one he had before, and will it be changed by his Fullbring like his Shikai?
    • That leads to yet another question - Does Ichigo still have his Visored powers, since they were a result of the method Kisuke put him through to regain his Shinigami powers, and this time he regained them through a different method
    • Ginjo who attacked Uryu has stolen Shinigami powers before, other than that, only Ichigo with a power raining from zero has battled the Xecution. I thought it would had been more of an asspull if the humans with powers (who probably haven't battled anything more than normal hollows since Menos Grande are very rare in the world of the living) were stronger than the centuries old Shinigami. So when Ichigo and Ginjo went for their final fight so soon, I thought it was clear this was just a short arc to show how Ichigo got his powers back. Plus Reji (who thanks to Kisuke and Mayuri can now travel to Hueco Mundo to fight stronger hollows and arrancar) reveled that they've been training to fight Aizen (foreshadowing that he will escape and that they already expect it) so of course they're curb stomping them.
    • Regarding the increase in power, the captains and vice-captains' reiatsu was used to bring forth Ichigo's dormant powers that had been jolted awake by his fullbring training. it is unlikely that he got ALL of their power, since they are still shown to kick some ass. Also,about the "Getsuga being stronger" thing, he could have been referring to the Gesuga Tensho that ichigo used in fullbring, which probably was not as strong as his regular Getsuga.
• Why did Ichigo's Hollow mask change? Rukia lampshaded this by asking the question herself, but it was never stated how it went from being white with three dark red stripes on the left side of its forehead to being all-black on the left side with white stripes, to having two black vertical bars. Furthermore, how'd his Hollow form go from being a bipedal lizard with a mullet to a horned demon with a mullet?
  • As hollows gain more power they change form, see the arrancar. Grimmjow was was jaguar like after being a menos, who knows what he was like before the aggregation of all those souls, it strikes me that the shape for a hollow is very mutable.
    • I thought that principle only applied to Menos, not normal Hollows.
    • When you really think about it, "Menos" is just what you call a Hollow that's reached a certain league of power. The reason they need to eat each other to evolve to that level is because that's the only way Hollows CAN level up; pulling souls into themselves. Part-Hollows that can generate their own power and level up that way, like Visored, wouldn't have to worry about this.
• I don't understand Ichigo's behavior in the anime episode 346. A guy tells him that they want to restore his powers. Ichigo's reaction? Maybe suspicion? Curiosity? Interest? No. He grabs the guy by the lapel and starts yelling at him and looks like he's going to beat him to a pulp if he doesn't answer his questions! And what happens when Chad appears before him, after having been missing for so long? Joy? Relief? Curiosity? No. He starts yelling at him aggressively and seems to threaten to beat him to a pulp if he doesn't explain himself! What's going on here? Ichigo is acting like a complete psychopath.
  • Ichigo is shocked and not thinking clearly, also the last person who wanted him to get new powers wanted to eat him and kill all his friends and family, so that might be a reason, add to this that Ginjo has been messing with him for a while now and he's sick of his games. So theres that.
  • Yeah, that reaction of his is why, when I hear people complain about Ichigo trusting Xcution so "easily", I go "...What are you even TALKING about!?"
• When I first read chapter 474, it surprised me that Ginjo would say Ukitake was a villain, but his statements make sense. Reading back, he and Aizen had an... interestingly suspicious conversation, and his comment that it was good that Yamamoto was going to live because there was no-one strong enough to replace him yet was... eerily disturbing. That Ginjo said that Rukia and Renji, who Ichigo trusts with his (after)life, knew all along that he was a disposable pawn to Soul Society is worse.
• Did Kubo originally plan for Ichigo to be a smoker? Because I remember seeing a manga title page that had him with a cigarette (Renji also had one on another cover, but that's for another page), but this troper doesn't recall him ever doing it in the manga.
  • Manga authors regularly put things on covers that are never intended to actually show up in the series. They're just non-canon drawings that the authors think are cool.
• Ichigo's Quincy powers actually make sense in light of him being a Fullbringer. If his mom was a Quincy she would've been fighting Hollows, possibly when pregnant with Ichigo, which is a prerequisite for being a Fullbringer. It could also helps explain how he keeps getting stronger as well, and gives us a possible reason why Isshin left Soul Society. Thoughts?
  • Only three. Wild Mass Guessing, and I'm pretty sure that Ichigo's mother doesn't have to fight hollows for Ichigo to be a Fullbringer. Considering she was killed by a Hollow after the kids were born, its not a stretch to say that she was attacked during pregancy too. And finally, I don't think being a Quincy/Soul Reaper hybrid gives you the excuse to pull moves out of your buttocks.
    • It Makes Sense in Context, though. Sure, it would've been nice for the Fullbringers to have been foreshadowed a bit more than just Chad, but we got what we got. What I'd like to know is what happened to Hollow Ichigo?
    • The Inner Hollow is what happens when someone's Hollowfied soul is put in a sword. Hollow Ichigo still exists as Ichigo himself. And (I can't believe people still don't get this), Ichigo's Hollow nature is WHY he's a Fullbringer.
• It is repeatedly stated by the other characters that Ichigo has very bad or no spiritual sensitivity. But in one of the early episodes (episode 4, with the kid in the bird), he's able to pick out a very weak spirit ribbon from a huge distance, something which Rukia had stated to be impossible, implying that he has sharper/better spiritual sense than she has. Is this just Early-Installment Weirdness?
  • Keep in mind, Ichigo had to concentrate -hard- for him to be able to do that, most Soul Reapers seem to be able to do pick up on Reiatsu rather easily with little to no effort.
  • Oh, alright. So it's not that he can't sense it at all, he just can't do it as easily as others?
    • Pretty much.
• Why hasn't Ichigo gotten Tensa Zangetsu to teach him the final Getsuga Tensho again, so he can get the upgraded Bankai?
  • He already knows the technique, keep in mind his Zanpakuto has changed forms after he regained his Shinigami Powers, there's no evidence to suggest he doesn't know it. Also it'd be sort of dumb for him to pull it out any time there was a battle he was struggling with, especially when he knows he still has more people to battle afterwards.
• Does anyone else find this a little weird? Like, Ichigo's a decent guy, why is he all of a sudden getting his murder on?
  • It could be that the whole incident traumatized him to some extent?
  • Was it ever confirmed that the mind control dude Ichigo Getsuga'd is dead? In Bleach, you're really better off not assuming anyone is dead without a direct confirmation, even bit characters.
• So if Zanpakuto are supposed to represent their user and Hollow Ichigo is actually the real Zangetsu why is he such a vicious prick? I mean sure, Ichigo's got a temper, and he does enjoy a good scrap, but the series has never placed any of that above his nobility and desire to protect. Do Zanpakuto only end up representing one aspect of their user's personality instead of the whole?
  • Hichigo isn't just a zanpakuto spirit, but also a Hollow, and Hollows are walking piles of instincts without hearts. His main instinct is his desire to fight and destroy, as seen during Ichigo's Visored training. So of course Hichigo is a prick.
    • So he's a hollow and a zanpakuto? I know Ichigo is a spiritual freak of nature, but that still seems a little whack.
    • Not really. A Zanpakuto is really just a bit of a spirit's own soul poured into a sword. Ichigo's soul is Hollowfied, so of course Zangetsu's soul is Hollowfied as well.
• So first Ichigo was inconsistent because he couldn't control his spiritual power. Then it was because he had to be utterly focused on the fight and trying his hardest to win. Then it was because his reiatsu was being surpressed by his substitute badge. And then His Quincy powers were masquerading as his Zanpakuto and preventing him from using his full power. How does the kid even manage to get out of bed in the morning? Wouldn't any one of those explanations have sufficed? I'm being reminded of the "Chad and Orihime got their powers from Ichigo's reiatsu. Only it's not that at all." plot development.
  • On the contrary, it's because he was held back that MUCH that his massive power reserves make sense. Imagine having a heavy weight on your back constantly; you're gonna have to level up a lot just to survive basic fights. Also, NONE of the reasons for Chad and Orihime have canceled themselves out, and I don't know why everyone thinks they did.
• Since Ichigo's shinigami powers are also his hollow powers, and what old man Zangetsu was his quincy powers... How exactly was the fusion of Hollow Ichigo and "Tensa Zangetsu" inside of Ichigo's mind before the final battle with Aizen possible at all if hollow power is toxic to quincies?
  • The REASON Hollow is toxic to Quincies is the massive imbalance caused. Remember the whole Soul Suicide thing when someone's Plus and Hollow haven't stabilized yet? Picture that, only with a piece of Yhwach's soul mucking up the works even more; that's a three-way conflict there, and you end up with a case like Masaki Kurosaki's. But if a spirit is ALREADY a stabilized hybrid, like Ichigo, there's no Soul Suicide to worry about anyway.
  • In fact, if "Zangetsu" isn't Ichigo's real Zanpakuto, then why does he change appearance when Ichigo activates his Bankai?
    • Probably because they usually share a body, and "Zangetsu" was basically inserting himself in between Hichigo and Ichigo, so anything that affected Hichigo would go through him instead. Or some other half-assed explanation.
    • "Zangetsu" is Ichigo's own soul possessed by a piece of Yhwach, so of COURSE whatever happens to the Ichigo side happens to him.
• How was Yhwach able to absorb Ichigo's Hollow powers if they're toxic to Quincies? Also, wasn't his Hollow power mixed with his Soul Reaper power, not his Quincy power? I distinctly recall Nimaya telling him that White's soul was merged with his Zanpakuto Spirit.
  • The actual REASON Quincies can't handle Hollow is because of a three-way imbalance (Plus, Hollow, Yhwach) that makes Soul Suicide that much more likely, like what happened to Masaki Kurosaki. Yhwach himself clearly doesn't have any balance issues in his own soul. Also, the entire point of the Yhwach in each Quincy is to take everything that Quincy has to offer and give it to the main man himself. That's exactly what happened to Ichigo; his Quincy stole his Hollow's strength and gave it to Yhwach.
• It's stated that Ichigo's original Zanpakuto, the one Byakuya snapped, was formed from Rukia's stolen spiritual power. However, after Byakuya stabs Ichigo and purges him of Rukia's spiritual energy, and Ichigo regains his Soul Reaper powers via the Shattered Shaft, he's still wielding that same sword until he activates his Shikai... so how can that be the case?
  • Because you misunderstood. All Byakuya did was attack Ichigo's ability to produce spirit power. Rukia didn't give him her energy, she gave him her energy OUTPUT. There was no "purging".
• So Ichigo's second fight with Yhwach, he gets his ass kicked, his Bankai broken, and Old Man Zangetsu and the Inner Hollow absorbed by Yhwach. Then Tsukishima "repairs" his Bankai. Okay, but if the Hollow is the main Zanpakuto spirit, what is the Bankai then if he isn't around? Is there a new, completely purified Zangetsu? And why does the Bankai break again, only to have Ichigo's Shikai inside of it?
  • Yhwach only drained Ichigo's strength; Ichigo's entire soul has been between Plus and Hollow since birth. The spirit of Zangetsu can never be completely stripped from Ichigo, because Ichigo IS Zangetsu. As for the second question, think of the weapon's name. "Tensa" and "Zangetsu", "Heaven Chain" and "Slaying Moon". Tensa is the chain keeping Zangetsu, Ichigo's power, bound. In the reforged Bankai, that chain has been made separate from the inner portion, making the two distinct from each other. So, what happens when Tensa, and ONLY Tensa, is destroyed? A completely unbound Zangetsu. With only "Zangetsu" left in the full name, what was once his Shikai is now his Bankai.
• So according to Ywach, spending a bit of time around Quilge apparently awakened Ichigo's latent Quincy abilities, but somehow spending a bunch of time around his Quincy friend Uryu or even his own Quincy mother didn't? Why?
  • Could have something to do with the fact that Quilge is way better at gathering Reishi or even the way The Jail reacts to Quincy powers
• What are the actual forms of Zangetsu's Shikai and Bankai by the time of the epilogue?
  • Tite Kubo kind of provides an answer to this question in the process of answering a different one during a Q&A session on Klub Outside: The dual Zangetsu is made up of "the blade" and "the scabbard". The correct form of a Zanpakuto is one that includes a scabbard and there are only two blades without one: Sayafushi and Zangetsu. The dual blade state fixes Zangetsu into its "correct form" while its Bankai state provides the scabbard, and what was seen after it shattered is the "True Zangetsu". The shattered scabbard was absorbed by Ichigo so if he wanted to he could split it back into two, but I guess that depends on Ichigo himself.
    • As of the Jaws of Hell one-shot Zangetsu take's the form of its original shikai state with the cloth that acts as a makeshift scabbard. Given what Kubo has said and the fact that the cloth around one-blade Zangetsu's hilt has always reacted to Ichigo's thoughts, it's likely said cloth transforms into the second blade when Ichigo wants to dual-wield since it's completely absent in the Zanpakuto's dual-blade state.

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