Headscratchers / Batman: Under the Red Hood

The Joker at the Bridge

• How come the cops surrounding the Joker on the bridge never try to take him out with a sniper when he's obviously trying to torch people alive? Batman may have a no kill policy but cops do not.
  • Considering it was the Joker, it might have been safer to see what he had planned first. For all they know, he had bombs planted all over the city.
  • Except, it was obvious what was going on: He was going to burn people alive. The Gotham Police are just that stupid.

Ra's' Castle

• How close is Ra's' castle in that Batman managed to fly there and back again in what looked like a single night?
  • He flew there and back in the Bat-Jet- who knows what Applied Phlebotinum-powered feats that plane is capable of.
  • We don't know the exact distance and where Ra's castle was (or even the exact location of Gotham), and regular airlines are restricted to specific speeds (usually just under Mach 1) while Batman can push it as fast as he wants. Normal timetables don't apply.

Jason's Body

• How come Jason's body looked perfectly fine after being beaten to an inch of his life then blown up? For that matter, how could Alfred have possibly thought that everything was in order after they dug up the grave and saw a body that was hardly decayed when Jason was buried five years previous?
  • Alfred was pretty far away so he might have had difficulty seeing Jason's body in detail.
  • Chalk Jason's condition post-explosion to the censors and wanting Batman to hold a corpse instead of a bucket of giblets. Early footage of Jason's murder had more blood flying around.
  • While 5 years is pushing it to stay pristine, proper embalming can make a body stay in rather good shape for a long time. There are jokes in the industry that they have a guarantee for 30 years on an arm or leg.

Did the Joker find out Batman's real name?

• After Batman and Red Hood battle their way into Hood's hideout, both refer to each other as "Jason" and "Bruce," before Jason reveals the Joker is tied up in the closet. Judging from the Joker's lines, it looks like the Joker heard their conversation which would then mean the Joker knows Batman's first name is Bruce.
  • I like to handwave it by thinking that the Joker only just came to when the door was busted open and that the Red Hood had already revealed himself to the Joker earlier or that the Joker put two and two together as soon as he saw Jason wearing the Robin mask. Though that still doesn't justify Jason's stupidity in calling Batman by his name when he knew the Joker was there.
    • But Jason's plan was to kill Joker anyway (or have Batman do it), so he likely didn't care what Joker heard.
    • Hell, consider that if the Joker found out who Batman was, Bruce might have felt he had to kill him. I'd say that actually qualifies it as Fridge Brilliance.
    • It could be like in Grant Morrison's Batman run, where the Joker knows but doesn't especially care.
    • If he knew Batman's identity what's to stop him from pressing the advantage and attacking Wayne and anyone associated with him? He already does that to Batman.
    • Because, in the game between the two, that's not fair.
    • I've seen it in a few continuities, but Joker isn't after Bruce. Joker views Bruce and Batman as two separate people. He may even view defeating Bruce Wayne as Batman holding back. I recall an instance or two where they had captured Batman, and Joker's response to being asked if he wanted Bats unmasked was along the lines of Batman being the true face.
    • We have to remember that Bruce and Jason, like the rumored first name of Joker, Jack, are very common names. And as Joker never peeks under the mask cause it would for him ruin the game, I don't think he'd do what a more sane villain would and dig into who they are. So knowing their first name doesn't really matter.

Nightwing: The First Robin

• When Nightwing first arrives to help Batman take down Amazo, one of the two thugs identifies him as Batman's first sidekick; the first Robin. How in the hell do they know this? For that matter, how does Joker? It's more understandable for him considering how well he knows Batman and his allies, but it still seems odd that he'd recognize him so easily.
  • The real answer is it was Exposition for any viewer who wasn't familiar with Nightwing. In-universe, it's probably a bit of an open secret among criminals. Batman hung out with a sidekick named Robin. Robin grew up into a man. Then one day there was no more Robin, but a guy named Nightwing with the same fighting style and similar toys and who was probably seen with Batman early on.
    • That's especially true if — as in the comics — Robin disappeared from the Teen Titans a few days before Nightwing appeared as a member. Same build, same hair — it's hard to believe he planned to keep it secret.
  • Adding to that - in the comics, Two-Face considered himself Dick's Arch-Nemesis to an obsessive extent, and by some accounts was the first villain to identify Nightwing as an all-grown-up Robin. Him being one of the biggest crime-bosses in Gotham, it's possible he or some of his goons got it through the grapevine.
  • Jason's existence weren't well very known to the casual audience back then. The line is just a way to establish to new viewers that there's been multiple Robins.

Chemical Factory

• Why was the chemical factory still in operation after the Joker's accident there?
  • Not like the Joker was in any condition to file a lawsuit...
  • Because companies don't just shut down operations after one accident that happened because a bunch of criminals and a vigilante who is also breaking the law fought there. The company wasn't responsible for the accident—standard safety procedures aren't exactly designed to protect people when they're having big fights in the middle of the chemical tanks.
    • Standard safety features such as catwalks over open-topped vats of horrible and apparently volatile chemicals? You'd think they would be shut down anyway.
  • Even facilities that do fail safety inspections IRL are often kept running for a very long time as the owner jumps through whatever hoops they can to stall so they can make as much money out of it as possible before having to shut it down.
  • This is Gotham, Extremely Corrupt Wretched Hive Vice City of The DCU; the safety inspectors were probably bought off.

Red Hood's Plan

• The plan relied pretty heavily on Black Mask getting so desperate that he would break the Joker out of Arkham to help take Red Hood down. Why would either Red Hood or Black Mask ever consider that to even be a viable option? The Joker has a reputation in the DCU as being the single worst person to team up with. Hell, even in just trying to get him in on the plan, he killed a handful of BM's men for no real reason before negotiating terms. If you want someone killed, you hire Deadshot, or Deathstroke or anyone else with "death" in their name. The Joker isn't an assasain, so why would Red Hood just assume he would be Black Mask's go to guy? For that matter, why the hell was he?
  • This troper always thought it was the Black Mask going, 'Okay, I'm screwed unless I call in the big guns. And who's got a bigger grudge and less self-preservation instinct against self-named heroes than the Joker? It's not like it'll matter if he dies; he's nuts!'
  • Interestingly enough, Deathstroke did play a role in the comic storyline this movie was based on (since it was a tie-in to Infinite Crisis). He promptly berated Black Mask and sent a group of second-stringers to kill the Red Hood; it didn't work out.
  • Even if Black Mask did call in someone else instead, the Red Hood would have just killed or incapacitated them, not to mention that Black Mask is not made of money; he has limits on how much he can pay someone else to try and kill the Red Hood. Joker works for free and is all around the biggest loose canon in Gotham, which makes defending against him impossible (meanwhile the Red Hood could take precautions against Deadshot, Deathstroke or other assassins, if not just pay them off).
  • Ask yourself why Jason took the Red Hood persona to begin with. He's calling the Joker out by stealing his original alias. Assuming more people than just Batman are aware of Joker's origins, Black Mask would pick up on that. "Hey Joker, some punk's running around in your old getup. You just gonna sit here and take that?"

Just Shoot Him

• Sooo....why didn't Jason just shoot Joker? Seriously, it's well established he doesn't have the no killing code, he hates Joker, he points out all the reasons Joker should be dead, he has Joker down and beaten and at his mercy and just...leaves him there? Why not just do the smart thing and fill Joker with bullets and solve the problem right then and there?
  • Remember Andrea? That's what will happen to Bruce.
    • Andrea went nuts because her father died, but she stopped killing and ran off when Bruce stopped her. Andrea did not become the way she is because her son shot her arch enemy in the face. So... your argument makes no sense.
  • The real reason is entirely out of universe: The Joker is not allowed to die because DC Editorial refuses to let him die. They wouldn't allow it in the original comics and the adaptation reflected that. Even now, DC is mulling it over.

• Why is the bomb that Jason uses remote controlled, but when the remote is used it just activates a timer on the bomb, giving Batman exactly enough of a chance to save himself? Wouldn't the remote triggering the actual bomb make sure that the Joker and/or Batman would die?
  • Because Jason didn't want to kill Joker. He wanted BATMAN to kill Joker. He wanted proof that he meant more to Bruce than his moral code, and it wouldn't have meant anything if Jason just shot Joker. What Jason didn't understand is that as much as Bruce cared about him, and as much as he would have loved to kill the Joker (which he almost did in the comics. Superman had to stop him.), he would never be able to come back after crossing that line because he knows that if he justifies killing one, he'll justify them all.
    • It was specifically about Joker, not about Jason wanting to mean more than Batman's moral code all by himself, but that Joker is irredeemably evil. Jason makes it clear he's not talking about Ivy or Two-Face or Freeze. He's talking about Joker. Considering how many of Joker's plots revolve specifically around getting a rise out of Batman it's REALLY hard for many people to take Batman's side on this instead of blaming him for each and every life Joker takes after a certain point.
    • It was specifically about Joker because Joker was the one who killed Jason, not Ivy or Two Face or Freeze. He doesn't want Joker dead because he's evil, nor does he want him dead for revenge. He wants him dead because the Joker took him away from Batman, and Batman did nothing about it. If it had been about killing an evil man, Jason would have shot Joker himself. Instead, he throws Batman a gun and gives him an ultimatum, a choice between Jason and his own moral code
    • Better question, why is that is has to be Batman that kills the Joker? Batman is right that it is not the civil duty of a citizen to execute a criminal unless it is self defense. The only ones within the legal right to kill the Joker are the state and the police if deadly force is needed. So the better question is, why doesn't the state kill the Joker or at least put him within prison that he can't just break out of. Every person the Joker kills is the failing of the legal system and Gothom's own corruption. Why is it Batman's fault that he won't do the state's dirty work? He is doing more than he should just by being a crime fighter.
    • They tried in Devil's Advocate. Joker was finally going to be executed for all he's done and Batman still stuck his nose into things. Because it turned out that Joker was conveniently innocent of ONE crime, he was let go. Because, you know, it's not like he hasn't earned the Death Penalty millions of times over.
    • I may be wrong here but I'm pretty sure I once heard that it is illegal in the United States to execute the insane. That's why whatever State Gotham is in hasn't killed him themselves. Of course why some arresting officer, after Batman beats the Joker and hands him over, doesn't just shoot the clown and go to prison a hero is down to DC not willing to kill off the character.
    • In most states it is illegal to kill the insane, for reasons being they're not sound of mind enough to understand what they're being executed for. Which is also why if you are declared legally insane you don't go to trial. In the Joker's case how insane he is changes Depending on the Writer. However, the Joker should have been transferred out of Gotham years ago and put into a prison that doesn't have a revolving door. I have never read Devil's Advocate, but legally, it is wrong to execute someone for a crime they didn't commit, even if the person is a Serial Killer. If anything, that another big bungle on the state and not Batman, who legally did the right thing.
    • When Jason died, The Joker was not in the United States. So the argument about the states being unable to kill the insane doesn't apply. Yes, The Joker should have been sent to a maximum secure prison without a revolving door because he is a wanted criminal all around the world, a danger to all civilization, and everyone in universe knows Arkham is a revolving door. A bystander should have killed The Joker in self-defense long before Red Hood's return, yet magically he does not die because DC doesn't want him to. Also, Batman is Jason's father, so Jason is asking his father to avenge him because they are family and not doing so is a sign to Jason that Bruce care more about his code than even the ones he loves.

So... did Jason die a second death?

I'm really confused by the ending. Everybody seems to be acting like he's dead at the end, but they never found the body, did they?

• Probably not. There was no body and the two guards who helped in the Joker's escape were mentioned in the news report at the end as having been killed.
• For the record, the original comic had a Gainax Ending, with the infamous "Superboy Punch" throwing all reality out of whack right as Jason set off the bomb.

Batman, Judge Jury and... Executioner?

• While it's easy to sympathize with Jason, why does he act as though it's Batman's job to execute people like Joker personally? When a police officer apprehends a criminal who's committed a murder, most people wouldn't blame them if the killer later escapes to commit more killings. Blame for that would likely fall on the judge and or jury for not giving him the death penalty, in fact it's a bit ridiculous that the Joker hasn't received that punishment already. Really it's not Batman's fault if Arkham is a Cardboard Prison. And since Batman turned Joker over to the authorities, thus avenging Jason. Shouldn't Jason be targeting them instead of making Bruce's life miserable?
  • That's the entire core of his and Bruce's argument; despite having grown up, he's still the traumatized teenager who Joker beat to death and blew up. His legitimate point is that Joker isn't like Two-Face or Ivy, who are capable of redemption; Joker has a body count and no impetus to be good. We sympathize with Jason because no child should have to go through such a Cruel and Unusual Death; Jason latches onto Bruce, because Bruce is a face and a personality who can bear the brunt of his anger about dying, that Jason knows Bruce did everything to save him. Arkham is a broken system with guards and doctors doing their best, and corrupt judges or cops. Jason can't fix it by pointing a gun at a doctor and demanding to either shoot the Joker or shoot Jason in the face. The irony is that Bruce says he just wants Jason to come home and all will be forgiven; he doesn't care about Jason's own body count and crimes, only to get his son back.

"So, I've been bamboozled."

• Jason's plan relied on making Black Mask so desperate to kill him that he'd dig up the one force that could take him out. Black Mask (apparently concluding that of all the Gotham underworld, Joker fits that) breaks Joker out to kill the Red Hood. The Joker immediately turns on Black Mask and his gang, takes them all hostage and makes a grand show on the bridge to draw out the Red Hood. While Batman is occupied saving the gang, Red Hood shows up where he's hoped for... and... Joker's not only a little surprised, Jason captures him easily, with no conflict to speak of — just some words, a jump cut and the Joker tied up and cracking jokes to his abductor a mile away — when the whole idea was that the Joker was the only professional killer in the city who could be relied on to beat him. I've wondered since I watched it, was there a fight in the comics? I feel like there's a step missing.
  • Original editor: The interactive movie Death in the Family revisits the scene, and actually arranges for a hard-fought bout of fisticuffs between the Joker and Red Hood. (It also bumps up the aftermath to playing out right then and there, but doesn't leave the question of how the hired killer gone wild who was actively trying to draw out his enemy seems to end up tied up without a fight.)
  • IIRC, after saving Black Mask and the other hostages, Batman grabs the Joker, presumably to take him back to Arkham, but Jason stops Batman, and Jason and the Joker fall into the water below (possibly Batman too). And while the Joker’s underwater, Jason grabs him.

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