Headscratchers / Baldur's Gate

As a Headscratchers subpage, all spoilers are unmarked as per policy. You Have Been Warned.

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• When you invade Abizagal's lair, you have to obtain a scroll of reversal in order to free a dragon trapped under a geas. Because you can successfully do this, then why on earth didn't Yoshimo just explain his situation and ask the character to look for a scroll such as that to free him from his geas? Granted he wasn't actually there because he didn't survive the events of Shadow's Of Amn, but still...
  • The first rule of geas is that you do not talk about geas. Well, not really, but Irenicus is a smart guy, it's probably one of the first instructions he gives to his ensorcelled underlings.
  • Maybe there was no scroll that could remove his geas, or else it was destroyed? Or Yoshimo didn't know that such scrolls could even exist?
    • It could be that Irenicus was a 20-something level wizard and Yoshimo could not find a wizard or Cleric who was 1 level higher than Irenicus, which is what would be needed to remove the spell.
• So Irenicus is a badass mage who has enough power to take over an entire anti-magical prison by himself. So why, then, is his badass hideout staffed almost entirely by GOBLINS?
  • Cheap labor.
    • Goblins AND Yoshimo.
  • He has a bunch of golems too, he just forgot to give them instructions to pulverize you.
  • Uh, he also has a bunch of mephits and duergar, so it's not like the place is staffed "almost entirely by goblins" at all.
  • And there were those two genies and one of Bohdi's vampires.
• Why does Aerie refuse your offer to restore her wings with your great power?
  • Well, personality aside, she is a powerful cleric/wizard. She could just cast permanency and fly to fly even better than she did before.
    • Aerie obviously doesn't see opportunity when it shows itself to her pretty face. Her loss. Yet another reason Viconia is better.
  • Massive Game-Breaker, can't let you have a flying party member.
    • Well yeah, of course they wouldn't give you a flying party member. But that's purely gameplay. Looking only from a plot perspective, there doesn't seem to be a reason for Aerie to refuse the Bhaalspawn's offer to give her new wings. Especially if the Bhaalspawn romanced her as much as possible.
  • There was a scrapped quest that gives you the option of turning Aerie into a bird. It would allow her to fly again, something she desperately wishes for, but naturally she'll be out of the party. The "Good End" of the quest is to state she has to face reality, which is suppose to make her confident and she starts using the "I am now going to stop whining and kick ass" soundset.
  • Ultimately, the limitations of the game engine is the most likely suspect.
  • There ARE flying party members already, though (well, sort of). If CHARNAME is a mage or a sorcerer, many of the potential familiars can fly. You can also summon flying monsters with your spells. Would letting her fly really break things any more than letting her put divine spells in to spell sequencers does?
  • Aerie's character arc is about getting over her lost limbs, in romance and non romance. She talks to some other characters about her issues, but most of her conversations are about what the *other* character is interested in. Her chats with Cernd are mostly about plants, she talks to Edwin about magic and his nether scroll problem, to Imoen about growing up in Candlekeep, to Keldorn about religion, to Minsc about Rashemen, to Mazzy about paladins. Sometimes talks about her issues, gets over them in both her epilogue variations, and is told off for whining by the party members more inclined to bully. If someone lopped off two of your limbs as a teenager and exiled you from your entire culture, wouldn't you want to talk about it to a supportive ear sometimes?
  • Her explanation was that, for some inexplicable reason, the Regeneration spell wouldn't work, even though she's a Cleric and can cast it herself, nevermind that "Avariel Elf" is a legitimate choice of form for every beneficial Polymorph-type spell down to Alter Self, and ignoring the existence of Limited Wish, Wish, Miracle (depending on how much of 3rd Edition Baldur's Gate was cribbing), and, of course, the presence of a demigod in the party. Hand Wave much? And it would have been completely possible with the Infinity Engine: change her model to that of a Winged Humanoid, and anytime she flies, do it via dialog box description or camera fade while she's in flight. It's not like the engine's inability to render sex scenes stopped you from impregnating her.
    • Baldur's Gate was not cribbing much at all from 3e, as 3e was not out yet when the mechanics of BGII were put into place. They knew some things were coming, like sorcerers, so they added them, but nitty gritty rules were a no-go. Also, Later Self in 2e does not equal alter self in 3e.
• How come Big E doesn't do a damn thing except sit around and be Cryptic, or giving a token item if it's clear that he really doesn't want this whole "Bhaal trying to resurrect himself" plan to happen?
  • Intimidated by a party of characters who could kick even his munchkin backside.
    • In Throne of Bhaal, sure—they're higher level than him, and he says as much that even he wouldn't want to fight the protagonist, let alone them with the other party members backing them up. In the previous two games, though, he could wipe the floor with the whole party.
  • Elminster's primary modus operandi is to sit back and let adventurers handle everything. Besides, if the worst happened, he's basically got the anthropomorphic embodiment of Magic itself on speed dial, and she always owes him a couple favors.
    • In the note on Gorion's body, Elminster says something along the lines of "this is something I'm not going to (or can't) get myself involved in.".
  • Probably for the same reason that he doesn't interfere in other plotlines, novels, etc. He's being watched by some of the epic level EVIL nasties. If he interferes in something, the other big nasties jump in to stop him, Big E calls in Blackstaff and a few others, the evil side calls in a few others, Big E calls in a favour with Mystra, an evil Deity or two gets involved to 'even the odds', next thing you know it's an all-in royal-rumble with every reasonably powerful being, god and kingdom involved.
    • At the very least he could come out and say, as you run into him just out of Candlekeep, "Hey, <charname>. I'm Elminster. Sorry about your foster father getting hacked to pieces and all, but if he had lived he would have told you that you are the son of a dead god named Bhaal and there's a nasty bugger named Sarevok who is your half-brother and wants to kill you. Bye!" Instead, he just routinely shows up and speaks in as vague a manner as possible, hiding your true situation for no sensible reason whatsoever.
    • Justified for a reason many media with super-powerful characters have examined before. If Elminster were to involve himself in every problem that beset the Realms, when a potential solution already existed and only needed a little guidance rather than everything spelled out for them, the people of the Realms would become complacent. As to why he didn't dump all that information on you? Imagine how the Bhaalspawn felt when s/he was more or less eased into the knowledge that s/he was the child of the dead god of murder. Now imagine how s/he'd feel if it was dumped on him/her right after Gorion died.
  • Another in-story explanation is that Elminster, as a chosen of Mystra, has to abide by his patron's restrictions. Cyric mentions in the expansion that Ao has forbidden direct divine intervention into the Bhaalspawn malarkey, which may include Elminster.
    • That much is certainly not true; Chosen are empowered by their god but act of their own free will so do not count as direct divine intervention. That is, in fact, the main reason gods have them. As long as Mystra herself doesn't order Elminster to get involved him doing so is his choice, not hers, and Ao will have no objections (not once has Ao given any indication of caring a tiny bit about what mortals do).
• Why the HELL did the Elf Queen think the perfect solution to stopping a power-hungry wizard from doing harm is to strip him and his clearly psychopathic sister of their souls? Not only did it probably break whatever morality he has left and made sure he will be out for revenge, but dude - stripping someone of their soul? That's really frellin' Evil by anyone's books.
  • They're Elves. It's pretty much a given that they're utter gits who don't give a toss about the rest of the world, they made Jonoleth and Bodhi mortal, kicked them out of Suldanessellar, and, as far as they were concerned, Problem Solved. They'll die off eventually, and anyone outside of Special Elf City doesn't matter.
  • Further, she loved him. Bodhi, she could probably have tossed aside, whatever. But the only other ways were a swift execution or a slow execution (as a sorcerer, Irenicus's power is a part of him and can't be taken away, so to remove it and render him harmless would be like torturing him to death).
  • Possibly the elves and, heck, their gods too, were so offended at Irenicus and Bodhi violating everything they held dear that they wanted to give them an especially dire and "appropriate" punishment.
  • When the Bhaalspawn and his/her sister lost their souls, they became empty and hollow, and were in danger of having the Slayer(?) take over completely. And Irenicus and Bhodi were already not that morally sound to begin with. How exactly is removing their souls going to make it less likely they'll do evil? Answer: it's not. The elves must have known this and not cared what evil they wrought on the outside world, thinking themselves perfectly safe.
    • The removal of their souls gave them the lifespan of a human—maybe even shorter than that—and would have prevented them from entering the elven afterlife upon death. From Ellisime's ending speech, it seems she was hoping Jon would learn the error of his ways and change back to the decent person she used to know and love. Apparently she didn't know him well enough to know that wasn't going to happen. Love can make one blind, after all.
• Why is Tiax in Spellhold? Sure he's as loony as they come, but he's a cleric, not a wizard. The Cowled Wizards do not go after Clerics.
  • Well <CHARNAME> or Minsc can get themselves into Spellhold by suffiently annoying Desharik (I think it's him), and Tiax is definitely annoying enough...
  • It's also possible that by this time, Spellhold was not being used purely as a holding area for dangerous wizards, but also as a dumping ground for...undesirables.
  • Rule of Funny
  • Does the rule against magic in Amn also apply to Priest spells? Many of them have similar effects to destructive magic, and could do quite a bit of damage if mis-applied, so would the rules would be enforced on them, too?
    • No it does not. Putting aside the outrage of its citizenry doing so would be a very bad idea. Although Cowled Wizards do show up if you have a very low reputation so they could have gotten involved with him anyway.
  • One very important point is being missed. Tiax is psychotically insane and has access to the metaphysical equivalent of an M1 Abrams. It doesn't really matter if he's a cleric or a mage, he's a violent loon who can throw way too much power around, and he needs to be taken off the streets of Athkatla before people start burning, bleeding or blowing up. It's even possible that he was tried in a conventional court, and is serving his sentence in Spellhold because it's the only prison that can hold him, or that he's awaiting trial in Spellhold for the same reason.
• Which level was Gorion exactly? He was Elminsters buddy, but Sarevok pretty much owned him without him ever casting any neat, powerful spells.
  • Gorion's level wasn't the issue. If you go back and loot the bodies, you learn his protective gear leaves him VERY vulnerable to one type of damage. Sarevok inflicted that damage and took Gorion out.
    • Huh? Gorion's not wearing any armor because he's a mage. The only thing notable on his corpse is the scroll from Elminster.
  • It's hard to tell, because that scene is ruled by Gameplay and Story Segregation. The only thing you can say for sure is at least 9th level due to his Magic Missile spell firing five shots.
    • Gameplay and Story Segregation also richly applies to Khalid and Jaheira in the first game. It is implied both have been adventuring for some time. What level are they? Usually 1 or 2, depending on your own character's level.
    • Level 18, at least: That's clearly Improved Alacrity he used.
    • Gorion is level 9 due to the experience cap in the game's engine. Silly justification, perhaps, but the fact is that the limitation is in the game, and it restricts everyone, not just the PC.
    • Not quite. Sarevok is a 15th level fighter in the game engine. The engine contained rules to continue gaining levels some way beyond the point the PC could progress to.
  • Sarevok was a level 15 "Sarevok" rather than a fighter (and yes, Gorion was 9th level) in the files. But while the highest-level characters have special classes like this (another one is "Innocent"), there's the 11th-level mage Davaeorn. So yes, Gorion's level 9 was deliberate. Apparently. The files can be a little messed up; Davaeorn is given as a level 11 ankheg mage.
  • Sarevok's also immune to magic when you fight him in the last battle. While he's shown taking damage in his fight with Gorion, it stands to reason that a single mage who doesn't summon stands no chance against him.
    • He's immune to most magic, but he takes damage from Flame Arrow, Melf's Acid Arrow, and Magic Missile— as Gorion demonstrated.
• So was Bhaal planning this resurrection thing many hundreds of years ago? What other explanation is there for why two of the most powerful Bhaalspawn are a full-grown dragon with a son and an adult Drow priestess/mage/whatever she is. And why Bhaal would want to intentionally mate with something as powerful as a dragon if the plan eventually calls for all the Bhaalspawn to die and fuel his rebirth?
  • The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. So sayeth the Wise Alaundo. Alaundo was a seer who named and numbered every year in Dale Reckoning for centuries into the future, and at the very least his names for the years are common knowledge. It's not unreasonable that a god would find out about even the most carefully guarded secret that has to do directly with him.
  • Actually, both the intro and your character bio in Soa say that Bhaal made (or started to make) the kids long before the Time of Troubles.
  • As for the dragon Bhaal was a god. From that lofty vantage point the difference between humanoid and dragon looks a lot smaller.
• Tazok's comeback. Compared to the cameo returns of the other characters, this one felt like such a cop-out. He was a great villain in the first game, yes, but having him return with no real explanation in a random dungeon just to be killed again was just gratuitous.
  • Tazok was part of a cut sidequest that would have involved (IIRC) the Hidden, the Mind Flayers under Atkhathla and of course, Jan Jansen. Hence why he drops the sewer key for no discernable reason. This being cut makes you wonder why it was him showing up as a mini-boss in Firkraag's dungeon.
• Half-Elf Bhaalspawn. How does that work? Is the character actually 1/4 human, 1/4 elf, 1/2 god, or does Bhaal not actually contribute any DNA?
  • If two half-elves have a kid in Forgotten Realms, the child is also a half-elf. So Bhaal simply shapeshifted into a half-elf and knocked up another half-elf. Or shapeshifted into a human and knocked up an elf. Or shapeshifted into an elf and knocked up a human.
  • Or maybe it's in Harry Potter terms— anything referred to as 'half-elf' is usually just a human/humanoid with any measure of elven blood. Either that or it counts on technicality, assuming the player's mother was a full-blooded elf the result would be half elf, half Bhaal... but with that logic any race you play as in the game would be considered mixed anyway. Maybe it's not so exact as much as it is the closest thing the PC can get to describing themselves as.
    • The explanation from the Pn P rules is just that: any human/elf cross is a half elf, even if there was only one human several generations ago. (As in, an elf and a half-elf mate, they make a half-elf; he mates with an elf, they make a half-elf.) Probably they just didn't want to get into human/elf combos with 1 part human and 15 parts elf, cuz you can't have rules for hundreds of different race combinations.
    • If you pick half-elf in BG1, your bio states that your mother was a half-elf. It's also stated that this is something you learned from Gorion. No matter what race you pick, though, your mother will always be the same race. Dunno if Gorion is just feeding you the line that your mother was a half-elf, though, or if he's telling the truth. If it's truth, then either he picks a shape in the race of the woman he's breeding with, or his "genetic material" is more on the spiritual side than the physical.
  • Bhaal is as likely such that anything he breeds with, from humans to half elves to dragons, to rabbits are born as Bhaalspawn with no visible indication of his half of the genes. Otherwise all Dwarf PCs would be half-dwarf, etc.
    • Not necessarily. It is Official Realms Canon that dwarf/human half-dwarves are, for intents and purposes, dwarves (it was indicated to happen relatively often in some regions, as one of the few differences that were there were that the human-related dwarves didn't have the reproductive problems other dwarves had at the time — not all dwarves are immune to pragmatism when it comes to the future of the race). Mind, if nothing else it is very likely that Bhaal used a suitable avatar for whatever it was he was 'spawning a score of progeny' with (he was a god, he could decide to manifest in the form of a chinchilla if he feels like it).
    • In Durlag's Tower, though, on the third lower level in the wyvern cavern are some statues of failed adventurers that you can turn back into living people. One of those is specifically stated to be a half-dwarf. Either someone working on the game didn't know that, or else it hasn't always been canon.
    • Almost certainly didn't know. This is really old canon, it just hasn't been superseded (certainly not when Baldur's Gate was made).
    • In-universe explanation; the term "half-dwarf" could be cultural rather than biological, like how some folks with human and elven parents in Dragon Age get called half-elves even though in that setting the children of elves and humans are all human. The "half-dwarf" therefore is biologically a dwarf but is called a half-dwarf by other dwarves because he has a human parent.

• Even though there was no actual time limit, did they have to set the sequel up in such a way that you feel like scum at all times for wandering around doing side quests rather than quickly acting on your main quest? When you start, you feel like a heel because your kid sister is off somewhere in a hidden prison run by a malicious bunch of mages and you should probably be trying to save her as quickly as possible. When you finally do rescue her, you feel like a heel for wandering around because Irenicus is laying waste to an Elven city while you're screwing around, not to mention the supposed ticking time bomb of having no soul left.
  • For Imoen, you're proceeding under the assumption that she's in jail, but not under threat of execution, and the Big Bad can't do anything, either. Things only get desperate after you get the money. Ultimately, since you would be under a time limit at every stage in the game (as well as for Chapter 8 of Throne of Bhaal), it would put quite a hamper on side-quests for there to be an actual time limit.
    • Additionally, players may not be ready for the vampires or Spellhold even once they get the 15,000 gold, so it helps with leveling up and getting better gear.
  • During the first part of the game, there's a reason for all the sidequesting - you're desperately trying to gather money to be able to rescue Imoen. The PC is seeking out any possible work to get some rewards. It's still not perfect, because you can gather enough money by only doing one or two of the bigger sidequests, but at least that's the story explanation.
    • Part of it could also be an overly burdensome sense of responsibility, at least for good PC's. Sure, you need to save Imoen, but are you going to abandon an entire town to murderous undead wolves or the less-than-tender mercies of Faldorn in order to do so?
  • Plus, after having watched the powerful magic of the Cowled Wizards at work, and then seeing how Irenicus utterly decimated them, the PC and his/her party probably would have wanted to spend some time growing in power. No use in rushing into a suicide assault.
• Who exactly is the council of six hooded men at the end of Throne of Bhaal? Their voices don't sound like the Bhaalspawn, even though there's a Bhaal symbol on the table. They seem intent on eliminating the player as a threat, but they don't indicate why, so it seems as though they're some kind of evil group planned for the next installment that was never used.
  • Word of God states that they are meant The Final Five the Throne of Bhaal Bosses, but they hadn't figured out that they weren't all going to be Humanoids when they did the Cut Scene.
    • In that sense, it seems similar to the introduction of the Seven Warlords of the Sea in One Piece, when it turned out that one of the six besides Mihawk represented by stereotypical pirate silhouettes is a woman, three of them are too large to fit the image, and the other two are human but don't dress the way they're being depicted. But if the sixth person seems to be Melissan, whom it's indicated that no one but Balthazar knows about, there are inconsistencies besides their appearances and gender.
• Considering that you and Imoen have been close friends since childhood, neither of you seem to be the least bit upset that Gorion has abruptly decided to drag you out of town and you don't know when or if you'll ever see each other again. You don't even really get to say goodbye to her. Granted, Imoen did decide to sneak out after you, but you didn't know she would do that.
  • It isn't entirely clear at first that you'll be going and never coming back. Gorion does an awful job of explaining why you need to leave and for how long.
• There are so many people in the first game who simply wait in one spot forever until you walk up and talk to them, whereupon they tell you what a hurry they're in and run off. Worse yet are the ones who will actually chase you all over the map to tell you that they have no time to chat with you.
• How exactly can a god of murder be Lawful Evil??
  • Bhaal was doing his job as a god just fine, and as far as we know, never broke any of the divine rules or try to powerjack other people (Unlike Cyric, who constantly tries to do that). He would be Chaotic or Neutral if he was a mortal, but since he's actually following divine laws, he's Lawful.
    • Ok, that does make sense, but if Bhaal's Lawful Evil, why are the vast majority of his servants and children Chaotic Evil?
    • Because murder isn't lawful by definition.
    • Capital punishment = lawful murder, depending on how you like to look at it.
    • No. This is not a matter of semantics. Murder is a word which means unlawful killing. This has been true since the Ten Commandments. Whatever emotional people might say, murder has always been definable within a legal framework, and it does not refer to any killing you dislike.
    • Ehm... "a matter of semantics" is precisely what this, and the entire previous paragraph, is.
    • Don't forget how D&D applied the Lawful alignment. It doesn't mean you obey the good and just laws of the world, it means you obey the laws of whatever higher authority it is you are under. There are numerous evil characters in Zhentil Keep who were Lawful Evil for example. It's a very good mercenary alignment because you do evil things but in a lawful way. All that alignment means is that they have strict honor systems or codes of conduct that they use to perform their various murders. A good example is an assassin of Bhaal who only kills when it's mandated by the church.
    • It's because the Lawful/Chaotic side of alignments never made much sense anyways.
    • 'Murder' in this case refers to ritual sacrifice and assassination, according to cannon material, which can easily be Lawful Evil in nature.
  • The "law/chaos" conflict always was closer to "rules vs whims" than "law vs crime"
  • Technically Bhaal's domain, as handed down by Jergal, was dying. He just chose to present himself as murder because he liked the sound of it better.
• There seems to be little logical sense in Athkatla's prohibition on magic applying outside only but not inside any building of any kind (public or private).
  • It's possible that the Cowled Wizards just don't care so long as it isn't happening in public, upsetting the populace and disrupting trade.
  • That's a game mechanic, not an Amnian law. Only using arcane magic outside a building in one of the Athkatla areas spawns the "Cowled Wizard comes at yells at you" event. If you want a Watsonian explanationwhen you cast magic outside someone is bound to see you and alert the Cowled Wizards, inside the witnesses are more limited.
• If Sarevok and the PC can't be resurrected because Bhaalspawn cease to exist when they're killed, how come Imoen has no such problem?
  • Part of the problem here is that Imoen was eventually given a much bigger role in the games than the creators originally envisioned. She was never meant to be in the first game at all, but was created because there was no good-aligned thief available early in the game. She was supposed to die in prison in the second game, but because she was popular they let her live.
  • On a similar note - Sarevok didn't cease to exist after Charname killed him, or else he wouldn't have been able to turn up in Throne of Bhaal. The whole 'Bhaalspawn resurrection' issue is really, really sketchy across the board.
  • It would also most likely be a deal-breaker for players, that would result in Imoen being almost useless.
  • Possibly Bhaalspawn can be resurrected, but upon doing so they lose Bhaal's essence. This would explain why the game ends when CHARNAME dies (as the plot would no longer make sense), why Imoen doesn't develop any Bhaal powers, and why Sarevok is no longer a Bhaalspawn after BG1. In BG2, Imoen can't die until after her soul's been given to Bodhi, so if you assume that canonically she made it through BG1 without dying, that would make sense too.
  • You could chalk it up to Gameplay and Story Segregation if it weren't for that one derp line where she references dying. Which happens in To B, at which point the writers have no excuse.
  • Irenicus seems a lot more interested in Imoen's soul than yours, apparently finding it to be in some way unique. In addition many Bhaalspawn exhibit unique abilities that are not related to their race/class (such as the slayer form, or teleporting peasants). Taking these two facts, I believe that Imoen's inability to truly die was the way her Bhaalspawn power manifest itself.
  • Chalk it up to two Bhaalspawn growing up together linking them close enough that "Bhaal's power clings to itself" makes Imoen's soul anchor to Charname.

• How did Quayle find time to run a circus and be a foster father to Aerie between adventuring near Baldur's Gate in the first game and showing up in the second?
  • Time travel.
  • Fridge Brilliance actually. Given that he's one of the worst characters in the entire series, no player would use him to complete the adventure.
  • Perhaps he was already running a circus and being a foster father to Aerie, but had to temporarily travel to Baldur's Gate and left everything in her hands (or in the hands of someone else), and never actually told Charname about his life because he's arrogant with strangers. When we meet him again in Athkatla, he either knows us from before or trusts us because we save him, so he even thinks that Aerie would be in good hands with us (although this could be a little inconsistent if Charname is a chaotic evil psychopath but the game is all tailored for a good playthrough). Considering that his personality, as well of that of other characters, is a bit retconned between the two games, this explanation wouldn't collide with what the game offers.

• While a human or half-elf makes sense, the main character having the build of a young adult if belonging to any of the slower-aging races is hard to explain, since s/he is at best twenty years of age. This goes for the other Bhaalspawn as well.
  • This gets a bit weirder when Imoen states in Irenicus' dungeon that <charname> and she are the same age. How can she be the same age as an adult dwarf?
  • Taken to utterly ridiculous extremes with Abazigal, a fully-grown dragon Bhaalspawn, who, not content with flipping the finger to dragon biology quite enough, had Draconis, a fully-grown dragon son as well. At this point, even a HUMAN of Draconis's age would be pretty hard to swallow, how old was Abazigal when he had him? Five?
    • You're really assuming Bhaal had all his children during the Time of Troubles. He probably sired a few kids ages ago.
    • Not probably, definitely. Else the PC would be 11 years old (the game starts in 1369, Time of Troubles happened in 1358).
    • Not to mention that the PC was rescued from the cult by Gorion in 1351 (as they prepared to Slaughter the children to collect Bhaal's essence....7 years before he died), or the fact that Sarevok is about 7 years older then the PC (the PC was an infant when rescued while Sarevok was around ~8 and managed to escape on his own in the confusion)
    • No, that would be 3-4 years of difference, Charname was a very little child or even a toddler, but not a baby.
    • They flat out said that Bhaal predicted his death. Which means that he started acting against it before the threat came. (Also, he, Myrkul and Bane all made plans in case they would die. Presumably, having once been mortals made them more careful than the rest.)
    • If that were true, then why did Bane and Myrkul steal the Tablets of Fate? That set off the whole Time of Troubles to begin with.
    • They might not have predicted the chain of events that would lead to their deaths, merely the deaths themselves — they could set up contingencies for their deaths, but they couldn't know if stealing the Tablets of Fate or not stealing the Tablets of Fate was what would lead to their deaths.
    • Also, given the... extremes... Bhaal went to in enacting his whole 'army of progeny' part of the prophecy, it isn't particularly hard to believe that some of his children exist just because the mood took him.
• Why couldn't Viconia be resurrected in the ending where the player character romances her and a follower of Lolth poisons her, again? Or why couldn't she chug one of the, likely, dozens if not hundreds of antidotes lying around? Or even just cast Neutralize Poison on herself courtesy of being a cleric?
  • One reason could be that she asked <charname> not to resurrect her. It must be pretty hard living your life on the run and hated by so many races, but to drag someone you love into that whole drama? It must have been difficult to just maintain a good relationship under all that pressure.
    • They do note that "her last words (were) whispered to her loving mate in private", although one has to wonder why Viconia doesn't stay around for her child.
    • A darker possibility for resurrection is that Shar won't let her soul go. Viconia has been aiding, indeed falling in love with a potential rival of the Dark Goddess and she is very much known for her spite. She may have decided enough is enough and refused to let her somewhat errant cleric's soul return.
  • The Ascension mod, which was made by one of the designers, does modify this to clarify that the poison is some kind of super-special brew created by Lolth herself, and thusly too strong even for a high-level Cleric like Viconia to magically counter.

• If, as he claims in Throne of Bhaal, Sarevok knows more about the Bhaalspawn than almost anyone else, why does he think his plan in the first game will work when it's apparent from the events of Throne of Bhaal that the only way to become Lord of Murder would be to kill all the other Bhaalspawn, thus meaning the whole 'War of Sacrifice' thing wouldn't work at all?
  • It was bait to gather all of the other Bhaalspawn? This huge slaughter to enhance his own followers in a trial by fire, slaughtering any Bhaalspawn they come across in the process, acts as a huge beacon of murder, blood, and slaughter to any other Bhaalspawn out there. And as the other Bhaalspawn come to either defeat him/fight his army/join him/dethrone him, he's in a position of power to smack them down, that and once he's top dog, he can hunt the other Bhaalspawn at his leisure.
    • Sarevok already knew about the Five. He was actually approached earlier to join them and refused, writing them off as too weak to ever be able to ascend as the God of Murder if they had to lick each others wounds (he didn't meet them in person, obviously, but did receive a messenger from them). He knew enough about god-hood that if he could be the sole architect of a massive act of murder on a grand scale, AO might just straight up give him the mantle of God of Murder (considering Cyric lost the portfolio of Death the exact same way to Kelemvor, due to the latters actions making Cyric look completely incompetent at ministering to the Dead) or at the very least empower his own Bhaal essence by bathing it in the act of Murder on a grand scale. (also the great war that preluded the conflict in Tethyr was actually Irenicus's slaughtering of the Elves of Suldenessalar and engineering their battle with the Drow, where as Sarevok, believing himself to be the one of the prophesy would need to ignite a war in Amn to get the ball rolling.)
  • Or, possibly, Sarevok was exaggerating his knowledge to make himself seem more useful to the PC. It's not everyday you get a chance to resurrect oneself, after all, and if you need to stretch the truth a bit to do that, then...
  • He also might have learned a lot wandering around Hell. Spending upwards of a year in Bhaal's domain has to count for something.

• Okay, so how exactly can you become a good god of MURDER? No really, if you take on divinity, and you were a good guy, the solar will tell us all about how much of an awesome dude you are. But how the hell do you do good as an aspect of an unlawful act with implied malice?
  • Bane was the god of tyranny, Myrkul was the god of the dead, Bhaal was the god of the moment of death where people crossed from one to the other. History of the Dead Three
    • Bhaal's portfolio includes Murder, assassination, and violence. By taking over his divine aspect, you also gain his portfolio.
    • All depends on who it is that you kill. Notice the huge body count that your protagonists likely have at the end of the game?
    • You don't have to become the god of Murder if you're not evil. Cyric is still the god of murder, and upon ascension you become a force of 'balance and good'.
    • God of Justified Revenge Killings, perhaps?
    • The best example available is Finder's ascension after defeating Moander. Moander was the god of corruption, rot, and decay, while after defeating him, Finder was the god of renewal in music and the cycle of life. Since rot and decay are part of the natural cycle, Finder had the same portfolio, but with a different interpretation, casting it as a step in the natural cycle rather than a definitive end. The obviously evil parts of Moander's portfolio were unclaimed, leaving Finder a demigod rather than a lesser god. Likewise, the PC can "reinterpret" Bhaal's portfolio, maybe becoming the god of necessary violence or last resorts, or lawful executions. It would mean having a narrower, less powerful set of titles, but it'd be more morally acceptable.
    • Bhaal took the portfolio of death from Jergal during the events of the Dead Three. He then re-interpreted his portfolio into 'murder' and took that as his title, but remained the god of death all the same (which is very different from God of the Dead, which was Myrkul's domain that Kelemvor then inherited). Presumably, a good Bhaalspawn would take the title of god of Death, and re-interpret it with Mercy Kill/painless death/caring for the sick and the dying aspects.
    • This actually seems like a bit of Fridge Brilliance. Bhaal is the god of the moment when a living being is transitioning into a dead one, right? And the actual dead were Myrkul's (now Kelemvor's) domain. If you're a god of a transitionary period, there's nothing but your own choice to dictate which direction it ultimately goes in. A good god of death could probably be convinced to help dying people hang onto life as often as not, since it really doesn't impact your domain if they pull through or pass on - they just need to be dying, not dead. An evil god of death wouldn't make the effort to help anyone, and would probably be stronger if a lot of people were dying very often; hence 'God of Murder' being more of an end result than a requirement in Bhaal's case.
    • Bhaal explicitly tells Bane and Myrkul that he was the strongest of the Dead Three. If Bane got too proud, Bhaal could kill his worshipers and if Myrkul got too big, he could start staying his hand and starve the realm of the dead. Which is probably why they both backstabbed him during the Time of Troubles and sacrificed 95% of the Bhaal worshipers in order to empower Bane's new avatar body.
    • Very interesting reasoning. New god of 'death' might be Psychopomp, as Hermes was in Greek mythology. Interesting, fact, that souls of the dead go to the Fugue Plane, where they're being taken to the destined afterlife by the Deities, they were worshipped in life. Or going to City of Death. But while they wait, some might be bought by baatezu or kidnapped by horde of tanar'ri. Good Bhaalspawn could be guide and protector of dying or guardian of dead souls, who would not tolerate necromancy, like Kelemvor. He might be seen, as source of respite and comfort for those, who died in suffering, illness or battle. More neutral Bhaalspawn could become darker and edgier The Grim Reaper, instead...
    • Along that same line, maybe s/he would be something like Discworld's Death, a benevolent, Don't Fear the Reaper type who 'takes over where life left off.' Somebody like that would be a close ally of deities such as Ilmater (because s/he would give final relief for the suffering) and Kelemvor (s/he sees souls safely off to the afterlife).
  • The same way Bhaal is Lawful Evil. You become the God of the ACT of Murder. It's your job to deal with murderers and victims of murder as you see fit. Therefore as the God of Murder you have the divine right to take care of the murdered souls and punish murderers. Sarevok was probably planning to become some sort of patron for murderers to pray to before or after the act, while you can become the patron for victims to pray for mercy and justice.
  • Well, the good ending implies you basically become a cosmic-level adventurer, seeking out and destroying god-tier threats to Toril. So I guess you're not so much the God of Murder as you're God of Murderhobos.

• So you get paid for turning in bandit scalps, which are distinguishable from the scalps of honest, law-abiding folk...er...how exactly?
  • They're not, but if you start handing in scalps from innocents someone will notice sooner or later. People don't just vanish, even in a place as dangerous and sparsely populated as the Sword Coast.
    • You can only get bandit scalps from bandits. Slaughtering the citizens in towns won't help you, they usually don't have any items on them and there's no "scalping" function that allows you to take the scalps of anyone you kill. If the question is why the other NPCs are written to assume that you're only turning in bandit scalps, apparently the game is skewed in favour of the good side and the development team didn't think of a PC who went around murdering random souls for their scalps. This game probably wasn't meant to be a wide-open sandbox where you could do anything you wanted to.
    • Also, attacking NPCs in towns nets you a -5 to reputation and other NPCs turn hostile. Get your reputation low enough and every time you enter a town, you will have a Flaming Fist force on your heels, attempting to capture you. NPCs outside of towns may carry items, but never bandit scalps if they aren't bandits.

• So when did is CHARNAME supposed to find time to visit Ulgoth's Beard or Watcher's Keep? Not gameplay wise, story-wise. Given how imperative your quests are (especially late in the game, which is genrally the point you're high enough level to tackle these areas) it seems odd that you'd just wander off to do a bit of random adventuring. Werewolf Island even specifically states a one-way trip takes an entire month (even if it wasn't reflected on the calendar). Does Sarevok's master plan have two months of down time we can take advantage of or something?
  • You could have plenty of time after killing Sarevok but before Irenicus kidnaps you.
    • It's approximately 5 months between the ending of BG1 and beginning of BG2, and you've only been captured for around a month or so roughly.
    • Ulgoth's Beard, Durlag's Tower, Ice Island, and the Island of Balderan have to be done BEFORE you go after Sarevok, otherwise the game ends after you beat him and you're locked out of doing the side quests entirely. So this means that you decide to leave him alone while you go off to the Island of Balderan for a couple of months, then come back and kick his tail. The problem is that the main part of the game doesn't mention any of these places ahead of time aside from Marl in Beregost mentioning Ulgoth's Beard, since they're all in the expansion pack, and the only way to access them is to go to Ulgoth's Beard first and then go to the extra questing areas. It makes it jarring story-wise when playing the game the first time with the expansion pack, and the difficulty of the BG1:TotSC quests means that most people will leave the expansion pack for last as well. There is nothing in either game that states that the expansion pack quests are quests that you're doing in the five months between games, and since you can't do them after Sarevok's death at all, there's no reason to assume this, either.
    • All of this definitely gets complicated because of Siege of Dragonspear). What we do between the two games is dealing with Caelar, thus all the Tot SC missions must be done (if they are done at all) before fighting Sarevok.

• Why does Melissan use a "codename?" Anyone who had no idea who she was wouldn't know it if she was called Amelyssan or Melissan, and anyone who did know who she was could see right through "Melissan" considering it's not all that different. So... why bother?
  • What makes you think it's a codename at all? "Melissan" is about as much of a codename for "Amelyssan" as "Mandy" is for "Amanda"; it was probably just her nickname.
• During the first stages of the PC/Aerie romance, Aerie makes mention of the fact that she's been looking at the stumps and scars on her back where her wings used to be. How the hell does she manage that? Yoga?
  • Turn your neck 45 degrees to the right. Now, move your eyes. Voila. You are now looking at your back. Or at the very least, your shoulder blades, where wings could sprout from.
    • Or, you know, she used a mirror.

• Why did none of the five try to cut a deal with you? After you'd killed Illasera, Gromnir Il-Khan, and Yaga-Shura, to say nothing of having earlier killed Sarevok and Irenicus, it surely must have occurred to the others that you were probably pretty dangerous. And remember, when Mel originally recruited the five, they were told that they would share power as Bhaal's right-hand servants once he was resurrected, so they were all willing, or at least said they were, to share power. Sure, Abazigal may have been so arrogant because as a dragon, he thought he was invincible, and Balthazar wanted to kill all the Bhaalspawn, but what about Sendai? She seemed genuinely afraid once she realized just what had breached her enclave, and was approaching her inner sanctum. Why didn't she at least try to cut a deal? Offer information on and help against her erstwhile allies in exchange for mercy? Especially after the first few of her clones went down in the final battle? Why not at least try talking things out?
  • Balthazar was actually supposed to have that as an option, but it was cut (and later re-added as part of Ascension), you simply had to have a high enough reputation and put forth an impressing argument that you could work together to ensure that Bhaal's essence was un-done.
  • Given Sendai's race: paranoia. She likely assumed <CHARNAME>'s intentions to be the same as Mellisan's, and expected that any "deals" would ultimately culminate with a knife planted firmly in her back.
  • Would you have cut a deal with Sendai, after she forced you to slaughter your way through almost a hundred mooks to reach her? Only the most kind-hearted yet morally myopic PCs would massacre a small army and then extend the hand of friendship upon finally breaching her lair- from that standpoint, attacking you on sight isn't necessarily a terrible idea.
• When you reach Nashkel, you are mistaken for somebody called the "Grey Wolf" or some-such. Is this character from the larger Forgotten Realms, or just an offhand invention for BG?
  • He's a local bounty hunter the city is familiar with; you can meet the guy himself during the Prism-and-his-gems quest, where it turns out he's a massive prick and you have the option to kill him with zero penalties. But yeah, I think he was created solely for BG.
• Good party members complaining when your Reputation is low, that's all sensible. But Evil ones complaining when it grows too high, or Neutral characters when either happens, that really doesn't make sense. Especially for Viconia; she joins the player's party in both games specifically to shield herself from people who see "drow" and think "kill it!" — shouldn't she be smart enough to realise that a reputation as somebody who does good deeds or is generally heroic is an added layer of protection, winnowing down the number of people who want her skull on a pike?
  • All of the Evil ones have good reasons, at least in BG2:
    • In Viconia's case, it's also making her an even bigger target for the sort of people who would ordinarily harbor her were CHARNAME not there, such as the Shadow Thieves and her own church. She's prudent enough to realize she can't just stick to CHARNAME forever and she's leery of burning too many bridges with the few groups that might be willing to accept her.
    • Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay and a high-functioning sociopath. Being too much of a hero ruins his 'street cred' and deprives him of valuable chances to kill people who annoy him. There are also hints he's an exile from Thay, or at least Reassigned to Antarctica, so being a big enough horrible monster might very well put him back in their good graces while becoming a great hero ruins his reputation even more.
    • Korgan is an Ax-Crazy Blood Knight and, as his ending demonstrates, he's simply out to kill as many sentient beings as possible before he goes out. Saving and helping too many people who clearly can't fend for themselves is a great way to piss off this Social Darwinist, and peaceful solutions rob him of a chance to add to his body count.
    • It's very poorly done. Keep in mind. Sarevok = Chaotic Evil. Well respected and popular upcoming candidate for a seat as a Duke of Baldur's Gate, and the heir to a large and well-connected merchant company. Edwin and Viconia both come from societies that expect you to present a popular and upstanding front, while seeking your own benefits in the background discreetly, where as unsanctioned overt evil is frowned upon and usually leapt on by others who are craving advancement. Neither would have any issue at all having a sterling reputation and in fact, BOTH would prefer it, since laws and juries tend to favour people with good publicity, and as long as the PC is one dictating the actions taken, they can simply sit back and profit by association. As long as they're receiving the power or respect they desire, they don't care where it comes from or what people think their goals are. Korgan is mostly about the money, and as long as heaps of gold are rolling in, he largely doesn't care where it came from, though he does get irritated if he isn't pointed at something to kill on a reasonably regular schedule.

• In BG2, when you first encounter Imoen in Spellhold, she's a psychotic wreck and an Empty Shell. After you lose your soul, she suddenly regains her sanity and can jump right back into your party. Does game itself give any explanation for this?
  • Maybe Irenicus was keeping Imoen passive with magic?

• Apparently one of the romance epilogues in the Enhanced Edition has you DIE. Not just DIE, but get stuffed into the fridge solely to spite your love interest. Excuse me, but what the fuck? If you personally defeated monsters like Demogorgon, how is a thing like this possible?
  • After giving up her godly powers, 20+ years of living peacefully and birthing 7 kids. CHARNAME's fighting abilities are not going to be what they used to be, especially if she's Human or Half-Orc. The real question is why, despite giving up all the Bhaal essence, the kids are implied to have powers from it.
  • Dunno about the kids getting Bhaal powers, but another thing to consider is that the Spellplague probably happened before the assassination attempt. If CHARNAME was in any caster class, it's possible she was weakened/stripped of her magic, which would definitely put a dent in her ability to fight.
  • Even epic level folks have to sleep, poison is a thing, anyone can roll a 1 on a "Save vs Death" etc.. Not that I approve of the PC getting killed post victory like that, I didn't even approve of Viconia getting fridged as well, but it's not by any means impossible; no matter how high level everything in D&D can die (with the possible exceptions of Ao and the Lady of Pain).

• Why is Imoen never given a trial or even a chance to explain herself? Amn isn't some kind of facist Police State or whatever, it's not like they just lock up anyone they think is guilty with no due process of any sort. (The same could be said for Irenicus, though it's a lot more obvious he's the guilty party).
  • Actually, as far a misuse of magic is concerned, Amn is a police state. The Cowled Wizards don't really answer to anybody (except, theoretically, the Council of Six, but good luck getting them to intervene).
  • It basically IS a police state for magic. You can go to the Government district and try to reason with the non-Cowled officials, a couple of them admit they don't actually KNOW what the Cowled Wizards do with the captives, don't have any idea where their prison is, and have no actual authority to order the Cowled Wizards to release anyone, regardless of their innocence.
  • Plus after seeing Irenicus slaughter several of them they're panicking and not willing to listen to reason from the party.

• So in Siege of Dragonspear, Duke Silvershield is alive again. Narratively it's a bit cheap, but this is a universe with resurrection magic, so whatever. Except... if it was possible to bring him back from the dead, why were the other Dukes in such a rush to replace him with Sarevok? Resurrection spells don't take that long.
  • Wait, was the Duke himself killed or was it just his son, as you saw in Kagain's quest and was noted by the man himself in Siege?
    • No, he was the dead one, you can even ask him about it. However he also notes that it took a lot of effort to bring him back, which does track; the more messed up a body is in D&D the harder it is to bring them back. So to extrapolate Sarevok saw to it the body was defiled and was convincing everyone that resurrection wasn't going to work.

• When the party gets magically disguised as drow for the Ust Natha questline how does that work with Mazzy, Jan, Korgan or a halfling/gnome/dwarven PC? The humans, elves and half elves of the party are not so different from drow in stature to shatter the illusion. Half-orc Dorn is stocky enough to be a bit awkward but he can probably muddle through. But the shorter races should surely struggle to interact with the world in a manner that fits their drow appearance.

• So is Draconis adopted or what? Because he claims Abizagal as his father but Abizagal is a Blue Dragon, Draconis is a Brown Dragon.
  • United Colors of Bhaaletton

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