Fandom Heresy / Professional Wrestling

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• If you're chatting with fans of the "territory days" (60's, 70's, & early 80's), you'll get heated but largely respectful arguments over the merits of Lou Thesz, Buddy Rogers, Ric Flair, Harley Race, Verne Gagne, Nick Bockwinkel, Bruno Sammartino and Bob Backlund. If you value your life, do not include Hulk Hogan in the aforementioned group.
• Go ahead and try to say anything positive about WCW from 1999 until they were bought out in 2001 or Impact Wrestling (formerly TNA) after 2010. You won't hear the end of it. The upside is that Impact Wrestling has great amount of talent. The downside is what they did to the said talent.
• Most Smart marks/smarks do not tolerate any negative comments about the following people as they are considered Sacred Cows^note  And since many listed are deceased, Never Speak Ill of the Dead also applies to an extent. Even saying you don't like them will at best get you told that you aren't a true wrestling fan.:
  • André the Giant^note You can say that he has physical limitations, but trashing him or his legacy is not acceptable, El Santo, Rikidozan, Akira Maeda, Bruno Sammartino, Bobby Heenan, Arn Anderson, Dusty Rhodes^note At least as an in-ring performer and mentor figure. As a booker and color commentator, opinions are mixed, "The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase, Curt Hennig, Jake "The Snake" Roberts^note He used to be something of a punchline in the fandom due to his struggles with substance abuse and acting a fool in the ring a few times because of it. But once he cleaned up his life and especially when the circumstances of his upbringing became widely known (Jake's father, Grizzly Smith, was an abusive pedophile), he's now an unacceptable target, Rick Rude, Tito Santana, Roddy Piper, "Macho Man" Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, The Undertaker^note With one notable exception regarding his treatment of Diamond Dallas Page during the InVasion angle, Sting^note You can make light-hearted jabs about his reputation being the "dumbest man in wrestling", but legitimately trashing him or his career is not acceptable, as he's considered to be one of the few genuinely good people in the wrestling business and pretty much everyone in the industry has nothing but good things to say about him., Diamond Dallas Page^note And never say anything bad about DDP Yoga, which has legitimately saved the lives of many people, including Jake "The Snake" Roberts and Scott Hall, Bret Hart^note You can say that he got bitter during his later years, but do not say that he's not a great wrestler, Owen Hart^note And never mock the circumstance of his death, though you can criticize him breaking Steve Austin's neck and reportedly never apologizing for it, something even his own brother called him out on, Scott Hall/Razor Ramon^note This wasn't always the case, as Hall had a long history of substance abuse and backstage dickery that didn't exactly endear him to the hardcore fandom, but after cleaning up his life and spending his final years helping younger talent, he has basically become untouchable, especially after his tragic death in 2022, Chris Jericho^note This appears to be changing following sexual allegations against him in 2024, though his skills as an entertainer remain unacceptable to criticize., Goldust, William Regal, Shawn Michaels^note Aside from his less-than-stellar behavior prior to becoming a born-again Christian, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin^note Except when it comes to domestic abuse, Booker T, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio Jr., The Rock, Mick Foley, Edge, Christian, Val Venis^note Though him calling Nyla Rose a "man" received criticism, Kurt Angle^note At least his time in WWE. His TNA/Impact run is divisive, particularly the 4 DUIs he got while working there, Sabu, Umaga/Jamal, Meng/Haku^note Due to his reputation for being an unstoppable badass in real life, much of this reaction is due to legit fear of the man himself, Austin Aries^note Though him no-selling after he was pinned by Johnny Impact in the main event of Bound for Glory 2018 is a different story, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Pac/(Adrian) Neville, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Claudio Castagnoli/(Antonio) Cesaro, Fergal Devitt/Finn Bálor, Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan, CM Punk^note At least his on-screen work. His departure of WWE and off-screen behavior can be criticized, Paul London and Brian Kendrick^note Aside from when Kendrick went streaking, Matt Cardona/Zack Ryder/Brett Major, Seth Rollins, Jon Moxley/Dean Ambrose, Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Braun Strowman, Gorilla Monsoon, "Mean" Gene Okerlund, Gordon Solie, Jesse Ventura, Jim Ross^note Except for his AEW work, which is quite divisive, Mauro Ranallo, Shane McMahon^note His involvement in the shitshow that was the 2022 Royal Rumble match is the exception, Miss Elizabeth, Sherri Martel, Trish Stratus, Lita, Chyna, Molly Holly^note Even other wrestlers have never said anything bad about her, outside of maybe saying she's "too nice" for the wrestling business, Mickie James, Kanako Urai/Asuka, Bayley, Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Naomi, Alexa Bliss, WALTER/Gunther, every major Puroresu stars, and the majority of the WWE Cruiserweight division.
• And don't say anything positive about these people:
  • Sheamus^note Who took the brunt of the bad heat for the "18 seconds" debacle at WrestleMania 28 and the whole perceived "holding down" of Daniel Bryan (among others), though this bad heat eventually spread throughout the whole company. He also unfairly gets pegged with Creator's Pet status because he's friends with Triple H, even though Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn reportedly weren't a fan of him at all. He's generally considered a pretty good (if somewhat generic) in-ring talent, but at this point he's just been around so long that fans are bored with him. That said, you can praise his matches with Gunther, especially their bout at Clash at the Castle and the Triple Threat match featuring Drew McIntyre at WrestleMania 39, Bob "Hardcore" Holly/Sparky Plugg, (King) Mabel/Viscera/Big Daddy V^note Prior to his death. Still, don't say that he's a good wrestler, Kevin Nash/Diesel^note Nash has won back the crowd a bit thanks to being really entertaining in shoot interviews and on his podcast, even people that dislike him as a wrestler will admit he's a witty and funny guy. That said, you'll never see or hear anything positive being said about his in-ring work or his tenure as WCW booker, and pretty much any mention of his name will have someone responding with a lame tired joke about Nash tearing his quadriceps, Steve "Mongo" McMichael, Ryback, The Great Khali, Sean Waltman/X-Pac/Syxx Pac/1-2-3 Kid/Lightning Kid^note Like his Clique buddy Nash, Waltman is a funny guy and comes off as pretty likeable out of kayfabe, so the hatred has cooled off a bit. Especially when there's been far worse cases of X-Pac Heat than the Trope Namer since he left WWE. Not to mention that unlike everyone else on this list (except Sheamus, maybe) Waltman is actually considered a pretty good wrestler and was a really good wrestler in the early part of his career, before the neck injuries, Hornswoggle, Stephanie McMahon, Kevin Dunn^note WWE's head TV producer, who's hated by basically everyone in the wrestling business other than Vince McMahon. That said, while he's notorious for WWE's "Shaky Cam" and Taken 3-ish constant jump cuts his work on things like pre-match hype packages and WWE's documentary features has been highly praised. He just completely sucks at shooting live wrestling. Dunn retired from the company at the end of 2023, John Laurinaitis/Johnny Ace^note Especially in regards to his work in WWE as a backstage executive and his tenure as onscreen General Manager, but even his previous wrestling career isn't considered to be anything special. His biggest contribution in-ring was inventing the Ace Crusher, which other wrestlers would go on to popularize with their own variations on the move (the Diamond Cutter, the RKO, the Twist of Fate, and the Ace Crusher II was the basis for the Stone Cold Stunner). He's also despised by fans of women's wrestling, as his tenure as Head of Talent Relations saw WWE sign plenty of fitness models and even women he saw in lingerie catalogs as wrestlers, but very few actual trained professional wrestlers (the aforementioned Kevin Dunn had a big hand in this as well). This gave us years of terrible "piss break" Diva's matches and set women's wrestling in WWE back a decade. In a rare instance of them actually doing something right, TNA would reap the benefits of this and sign every actual female wrestler they could find, and their segments would often earn Impact's highest ratings. Laurinaitis also holds the dubious distinction as being the guy who signed the wrong one-legged wrestler, something Jim Cornette will never let him forget. Though he's now mainly known for being tied into the sex scandal that took down former WWE owner Vince McMahon, with another lawsuit filed against WWE and specifically McMahon and Laurinaitis in January 2024, Byron Saxton, Dixie Carter, Vince Russo^note While Russo does have some defenders nowadays, he's still seen largely as a joke in the wrestling community and don't ever say you approve of his decision to make David Arquette the WCW World Heavyweight Champion, something even Arquette himself has never tried to defend, Mojo Rawley, Sable, The Fabulous Moolah^note While once a well-regarded pioneer of women's wrestling, posthumous allegations from her former trainees of sex trafficking, physically and mentally abusive behavior, embezzling money, and using her power to prevent other women from becoming more famous than her have resulted in her becoming a pariah in the wrestling community. And even those who don't believe the allegations will admit that her in-ring performances paled in comparison to modern women's wrestling., Mae Young^note While not as controversial as Moolah, her hand baby angle with Mark Henry and her Attitude Era run overshadowed her earlier career. Though she does get a little respect for taking some pretty crazy bumps (like letting The Dudley Boys powerbomb her through a table) while in her late 70s, Cameron, Kelly Kelly, and New Jack.
• Others have mixed reactions. Here is the list of what you can and can not say.:
  • Rob Van Dam and The Hardy Boyz: You can criticize their personal lives and some of their careers, but don't criticize their recent works, and the Broken Hardyz gimmick for the latter.
  • Hulk Hogan: You can pick on his personal life, his in-ring skills and his backstage politicking, but don't say that he flat-out sucks when it comes to his Hulkamania peak, his early nWo run, and his revolutionizing of the wrestling industries.
  • Ric Flair: You can criticize his personal life all you want, but don't knock his wrestling career aside from his TNA run and his disastrous "Last Match" in 2022.
  • The New Day: Don't say that you like the team during their first face run, and don't say that you don't like them after their first heel run. Each individual member have mixed reactions.
  • John "Bradshaw" Layfield: Don't say anything bad about Bradshaw of the APA. As JBL, don't say that you don't like his character or his first commentary run in 2006, but don't speak positive about his 2011-2017 commentary run. And don't defend his bullying accusations.
  • Kane is one of the WWE's biggest legends and is rarely spoken of negatively by either his peers or wrestling fans, but don't say anything positive about Corporate Kane. And don't say that you're a fan of his tag-teams with X-Pac or the Big Show.
  • Charlotte Flair was considered an Internet darling during her NXT run. She is not universally-hated, but has become a Base-Breaking Character since her debut on the main roster due to her being pushed too hard. While you can say you like her, don't say that you like her better than the other three Horsewomen. And don't say that you like her better than her father.
  • Whether or not you like Doink the Clown's heel run, don't say that he's a better face than heel. And don't say that your favorite wrestler playing Doink is anybody other than Matt Borne.
  • Triple H: You can say that you like him from 1997-2001, enjoyed his character, and how he handles the NXT, but don't say anything positive about his 2002-2005 "Reign of Terror" heel run, or his time with The Authority (and don't ever say that you approve of him beating either Booker T at WrestleMania 19 or Sting at WrestleMania 31). His 2006-2013 face run is a mixed bag. Going into 2024 any negative talk about his run as "Chief Content Officer" since taking over the pencil in 2022 (which so far has been a success on every level, at least from a business perspective) will immediately start a flame war and get you branded as an "AEW mark".
  • You can say anything about Batista all you want, but don't say that he deserved win the Royal Rumble in 2014.
  • You can say that Jeff Jarrett was a good wrestler in WWF and WCW, but don't talk positive about his TNA and GFW runs^note Very few people even have anything positive to say about his WWF and WCW work, especially his second WCW run where he became a multiple time world champion due to being friends with then-booker Vince Russo. In fact, Jarrett is one of the most hated people in wrestling. You might get people to grudgingly admit he's a pretty smooth in-ring worker, but it's pretty much unanimously agreed even among Jarrett's defenders that he wasn't good enough to deserve the main event pushes he got.
  • Bullet Club: Their NJPW run is considered a Sacred Cow though their watered-down WWE run can be criticized.
  • You can say anything positive about Eva Marie when she's in Total Divas, as long as you're not talking to a wrestling fan.
  • Roman Reigns: Saying you like his 2014-2020 face run is a no-no. Saying you don't like his time with The Shield or his "Tribal Chief" heel run is also a no-no, though it seems the latter is now becoming okay to criticize due to making him an Invincible Villain who wrestles part-time and never wins cleanly.
  • John Cena: His 2005-2014 main event run is hated by most adult male fans. However, his Doctor of Thuganomics gimmick and his 2015-present midcard run should never be trashed. And if you're not a wrestling fan, then don't say anything hatred about his Make-A-Wish foundation.
  • You can say all you want about Randy Orton, but don't talk positive about his "Eddie's in Hell" quote. Especially not to the man himself.
  • Sin Cara: While the original Sin Cara, Mistico, can be criticized for his constant botching, Hunico, who was Sin Cara Negro, after the former was released, is the much superior Sin Cara.
  • Goldberg: Don't criticize his first year in WCW (roughly from his debut in 1997 up until he lost his world heavyweight title to Kevin Nash at Starrcade 1998) and don't speak positively about his heel turn in 2000 or either of his WWE runs apart from his second match against Brock Lesnar at Survivor Series 2016.
  • Chris Benoit: You can obviously criticize him for his double murder-suicide, but don't say that he wasn't one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.
  • Mark Henry: Don't say anything positive about his hand-baby angle, and don't say anything negative about his "Hall of Pain" run in 2011 or his fake retirement in 2013.
  • Paige: Her personal life is fair game, but don't trash her wrestling career apart from a promo in 2015 where she mocks Charlotte Flair's deceased brother Reid.
  • Brock Lesnar: You can criticize his MMA days and his post-MMA WWE career, but don't say that you dislike him.
  • Paul Heyman: His work as a manager (particularly his promos) and as a color commentator is beyond reproach. His work as a promoter is a mixed bag^note While a lot of people loved ECW and its influence on current wrestling is undeniable, a lot of people feel that it has not aged well and most of that influence has not been positive, notably the physical toll that kind of wrestling takes on the talent's bodies. Not to mention that ECW was an absolute money pit that left many of its wrestlers thousands of dollars in debt and Heyman, while a great booker (and even that is decisive, ECW was littered with angles that started off hot and were then dragged out way too long and had a disappointing payoff), was really lousy at actually running a business.
  • Like Heyman you can criticize Jim Cornette's work as promoter/booker (though it should be noted that he wasn't actually the booker of Ring of Honor, just running TV production), but denying he's one of the greatest managers of all time (he's widely considered the greatest wrestling manager not named Bobby Heenan^note To wit, the The Wrestling Observer Newsletter gave out a Manager of the Year award for 14 years. Cornette won it 12 times (and wasn't on TV the two years he didn't win), and the award was retired when Cornette ended his managerial career) will just get you branded a troll or a mark. Same for criticizing his work as a trainer in WWE's original developmental program. Opinions on his often controversial thoughts of modern wrestling mostly depend on which side of the "wrestling should be serious and as realistic as possible" vs. "Kayfabe is dead anyway so just have fun with it" debate you sit on.
  • Say anything you want about Bill DeMott as a wrestler, but don't say anything positive about him as a wrestling trainer and don't defend his bullying accusations.
  • Vince McMahon: You can criticize his feud with the DeGeneration X and the Spirit Squad in 2006 and his face run during The New '10s, but don't say anything negative about his villainous persona in the late 90s and early 2000s.
  • Lex Luger: Don't say that you like his WWF run better than his NWA/WCW runs.
  • Scott Steiner: The only thing you can say positive about him is that his promos are amazing and hilarious, but fans will agree with the merits of his earlier high-flying days with his older brother Rick.
  • LayCool: The whole team have mixed reactions and two individual members can be looked upon positively, but don't talk positive about the "Piggy James" angle.
  • Mike Adamle was universally hated until 2017 when he was diagnosed with dementia, in which never say anything hateful about him. If you're talking to a non-wrestling fan, don't say anything negative about his time as the host of American Gladiators.
  • Opinions on R-Truth are mixed. Basically everyone hates his performances of Vince McMahon's bad comedy (mainly because it isn't funny), but the hate gets directed at the bookers and not Truth himself, who's generally agreed to be much better than what they make him do on TV. People also tend to give Truth a pass because he's definitely no spring chicken at this point and a spot where you do lots of idiotic "comedy" but take very few bumps isn't the worst thing in the world for an older wrestler. Don't speak negative about his short-lived heel run in 2011, and criticizing his current work under Triple H's creative direction (where he's still being used mostly for comedy, but free from Vince's bad ideas and is coming up with most of the stuff he's doing himself) will probably draw a negative response.
  • Michael Cole: Don't talk positive about his 2012-2019 face-run commentary, and don't say that you like him better than Jim Ross. His 1999-2008 Smackdown commentary run is a mixed bag.
  • The only thing fans are in agreement about regarding the Big Show is that his time with The Authority was nothing less than abysmal.
    • On the subject of the Authority, the only thing you can praise regarding them was Seth Rolllins' time with them and Daniel Bryan's feud with them. Everything else is off the table.
  • Natalya Neidhart: While you can say that you like her, don't say that you like her better than her father or her uncle.
• As far as the championship belts go, don't ever disrespect the Big Gold Belt^note At least not the original Crumrine version used in NWA and WCW. The WWE redesigns of the belt can be criticized, albeit with at least some degree of respect, as it is considered the best world heavyweight championship belt in wrestling history, with only the "Winged Eagle" WWF World Heavyweight Championship used from 1988-1998 being a close contender.

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