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insufficient context. ship sinking must refer to a specific scene intended to disprove a pairing per TRS https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1640420480098263500


** The William[=/=]Margaery ship [[ShipSinking has been sunk]], but that hasn't stopped it from becoming popular. The author even said in a post-chapter A/N that he may write a one-shot in the future revolving around this couple.

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** The William[=/=]Margaery ship [[ShipSinking has been sunk]], sunk, but that hasn't stopped it from becoming popular. The author even said in a post-chapter A/N that he may write a one-shot in the future revolving around this couple.
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"What an Idiot!" is now Flame Bait.


* WhatAnIdiot: Theon tells his father he is an idiot for not only rejecting William's offer of independence, but planning to attack the North, which are William's main allies.
** ''Everything'' that Joffrey does.
** William's occasional lapses into HonorBeforeReason territory can lead him into grasping the IdiotBall, the "best" example being when he was able to blackmail Littlefinger into funding the creation of the Royal Army. While the act in of itself is [[MagnificentBastard well-played]], William's decision to dispose of the evidence after Littlefinger complies rather than ratting him out and getting him replaced by someone more trustworthy was extremely foolish. William even realizes this later on and vows to dispose of Littlefinger the first chance he gets. Mind, he was ''nine'' at the time - at the very least he made and learned from his mistakes early on.
** Daenerys having Viserys evicted from the Dothraki camp rather than killing him proves to be a foolish mistake that costs the lives of her husband and her unborn son. These losses cause her to wise up and promise to kill him.
** Mya Stone and the Thieves' Guild frame the Mythic Dawn for a fake attempt on Robin Arryn's life. While this does prevent William from being framed for it like Lysa Arryn and Littlefinger had planned, a lot of reviewers have argued that it would have been smarter to frame Littlefinger (which would, possibly, shorten his list of allies and make him easier to get rid of) or Joffrey (pretty much forcing Lysa to cast her lot with William).
*** In this point, it can be argued that anything that put Littlefinger in a bad light (be it directly, or by his association with Joffrey) would be completely ignored by Lysa, who would claim it is an attempt by William to frame Littlefinger.
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Please use the Magnificent Bastard cleanup thread to propose characters before writing their entries. Magnificent Bastard entries not approved by the thread will be deleted.


* MagnificentBastard: Apart from the usual suspects, William is one or learning to be one - he is quite willing and able to blackmail Littlefinger at the age of ''9''.
** Tywin proves that he's capable of his own level of magnificent bastardry when he ambushes one of William's Legions, [[CurbStompBattle wipes out half of its members before they can fully prepare themselves]], and makes a successful strategic withdrawal back to King's Landing when William arrives with reinforcements. The entire point of the attack, aside from giving him a chance to escape, was just to show that, despite numerous setbacks, Tywin wasn't out of the game yet, and ''boy'', did he accomplish this!
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** Cersei arranging Robert's death doesn't really count as a crossing--he was an [[DomesticAbuser abusive]] [[ReallyGetsAround womanizer]] whom she had every reason to hate. What pushes her over the line is her usurpation of Robert's will and putting Joffrey on the throne due to her inability to accept the fact that William is more suitable for the crown simply because he is Robert's son, making her responsible for the war that follows and all the atrocities Joffrey commits.

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** Cersei arranging Robert's death doesn't really count as a crossing--he was an [[DomesticAbuser [[DomesticAbuse abusive]] [[ReallyGetsAround womanizer]] whom she had every reason to hate. What pushes her over the line is her usurpation of Robert's will and putting Joffrey on the throne due to her inability to accept the fact that William is more suitable for the crown simply because he is Robert's son, making her responsible for the war that follows and all the atrocities Joffrey commits.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Will. He's either a total badass worthy of kingship; or he's a stereotypical GaryStu.

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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Will. He's either a total badass worthy of kingship; or he's a stereotypical GaryStu.overly perfect.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: Will. He's either a total badass worthy of kingship; or he's a stereotypical GaryStu.
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** Tiny bit of a MythologyGag, but Jon becoming Meridia's Champion fits him well when you remember he's a candidate for [[TheChosenOne Azor Ahai]], the hero wielding [[CoolSword Lightbringer]]. Now, '''dawn''' brings light, and Meridia granted '''Dawn'''breaker to Jon, a sword to use against undead, and she's associated with light and life. Jon starts to fulfill the role of the Prince That Was Promised without realizing it.
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** Jon[=/=]Serana.
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** William's occasional lapses into HonorBeforeReason territory can lead him into grasping the IdiotBall, the "best" example being when he was able to blackmail Littlefinger into funding the creation of the Royal Army. While the act in of itself is [[MagnificentBastard well-played]], William's decision to dispose of the evidence after Littlefinger complies rather than ratting him out and getting him replaced by someone more trustworthy was extremely foolish. William even realizes this later on and vows to dispose of Littlefinger the first chance he gets.

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** William's occasional lapses into HonorBeforeReason territory can lead him into grasping the IdiotBall, the "best" example being when he was able to blackmail Littlefinger into funding the creation of the Royal Army. While the act in of itself is [[MagnificentBastard well-played]], William's decision to dispose of the evidence after Littlefinger complies rather than ratting him out and getting him replaced by someone more trustworthy was extremely foolish. William even realizes this later on and vows to dispose of Littlefinger the first chance he gets. Mind, he was ''nine'' at the time - at the very least he made and learned from his mistakes early on.
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* FridgeBrilliance: Cersei's hostility towards Arya may not entirely come from the fact she's supposed to marry her son, that's also because she could be the queen whom Maggy the Frog announced as the one who would eventually replace Cersei. She's intented to marry William - thr rightful heir to the throne - she's certainly younger than Cersei and people start to notice her as a "wild beauty" just as her aunt.
** Another layer to Cersei's hatred could be Arya's StrongFamilyResemblance to her aunt Lyanna, who was Robert's OneTrueLove. When she looks at William and Arya, she sees Robert with Lyanna, the one woman Cersei was never able to compete with.
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* MoralEventHorizon: Joffrey crosses it when he has one of Sansa's fingers cut off to vent his anger over her brother's victory at Oxcross.

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* MoralEventHorizon: Joffrey crosses it when he has orders the assassination of all his half-siblings, and then compounded by his incredibly dickish behaviour, which leads to him ordering the Kingsguard to cut one of Sansa's fingers cut off to vent his anger over her brother's victory at Oxcross.
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Not approved by the cleanup thread.


* CompleteMonster: Aside from the ones we get in canon--namely [[TheCaligula Joffrey]] [[BigBrotherBully Baratheon]], [[TheSociopath Ramsay]] [[BastardBastard Snow]], and [[DirtyOldMan Craster]]--we actually have a couple of others:
** [[EntitledBastard Viserys Targaryen]] is highly abusive towards his sister Daenerys, even stupidly threatening her and her unborn son in front of her tall, muscular husband and his men. After she humiliates him and has him thrown out of her husband's camp rather than kill him, Viserys [[UngratefulBastard repays her act of mercy]] by joining a malevolent cult and using their resources to orchestrate the deaths of his brother-in-law and unborn nephew, all while taking great delight in the prospect of killing Daenerys.
** [[TheFundamentalist Ruma Camoran]] belongs to the bloodthirsty Mythic Dawn, a cult that worships the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. To further her deity's goals, she eagerly forces Daenerys to suffer a MagicalAbortion, [[WouldHurtAChild killing her unborn baby]] and [[WouldHitAGirl nearly killing her as well]], though not before sadistically revealing that it was Daenerys's own brother who asked her to do it, and even then, she takes great delight in the idea of killing an unborn baby.
** [[TheDragon Harkon Volkihar]] had his wife and daughter [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil raped by]] [[GodOfEvil Molag Bal]] to turn them into vampires, seeks the Elder Scroll because he wants his vampire clan to TakeOverTheWorld, has allied himself to the White Walkers, has brutally tortured Benjen Stark, killed his own wife when he discovered she conspired to prevent him from fulfilling that prophecy and now intends to kill his daughter because she is openly opposing his plans.
** [[BiggerBad Alduin]] is the ruler of the White Walkers, and a deposed deity-like figure who once ruled over humanity. His reign was described by Farengar Secret-Fire as one of unspeakable cruelty, and when the humans finally rose up, many of his fellow dragons--themselves hardly angels--were so appalled by his malevolence that they switched sides and helped the humans take him down.

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** [[TheDragon Harkon Volkihar]] had his wife and daughter [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil raped by]] [[GodOfEvil Molag Bal]] to turn them into vampires, seeks the Elder Scroll because he wants his vampire clan to TakeOverTheWorld, has allied himself to the White Walkers, has brutally tortured Benjen Stark, killed his own wife when he discovered she conspired to prevent him from fulfilling that prophecy and now intends to kill his daughter because she is openly opposing his plans.



* CrowningMomentOfFunny: The very idea of William Baratheon, the Black Prince and the fucking Dovahkiin, cowering at the idea of being spanked by Catelyn is hilarious!



* {{Irony}}: There were two main relationships that became messed up during the events of Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark: [[ArrangedMarriage Robert's betrothal to Lyanna]] and Cersei's PrecociousCrush on Rhaeghar. Following Rhaegar and Lyanna's Death, Robert and Cersei get married and show nothing but disgust for the same-gendered member of the pair (Robert hates Rhaegar for stealing his betrothed and Cersei hates Lyanna for stealing her thunder in both relationships). This hate fueled relationship eventually gives birth to William. When William is sent up north to be fostered by the Starks, he meets [[spoiler: Jon, the child (in the show at least) of Lyanna and Rhaegar. While either of his parents might have killed him out of spite, William becomes good friends with Jon even going as far as to call him [[TrueCompanions his brother after they, along with Theon and Robb fight off the King-in rags together]].]]

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* {{Irony}}: There were two main relationships that became messed up during the events of Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark: [[ArrangedMarriage Robert's betrothal to Lyanna]] and Cersei's PrecociousCrush on Rhaeghar. Rhaegar. Following Rhaegar and Lyanna's Death, death, Robert and Cersei get married and show nothing but disgust for the same-gendered member of the pair (Robert hates Rhaegar for stealing his betrothed and Cersei hates Lyanna for stealing her thunder in both relationships). This hate fueled hate-fueled relationship eventually gives birth to William. When William is sent up north to be fostered by the Starks, he meets [[spoiler: Jon, the child (in the show at least) of Lyanna and Rhaegar. While either of his parents might have killed him out of spite, William becomes good friends with Jon even going as far as to call him [[TrueCompanions his brother after they, along with Theon and Robb fight off the King-in King In rags together]].]]



** Viserys crosses it when he helps the Mythic Dawn plot the deaths of his sister, his brother-in-law, and his unborn nephew.

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** Viserys crosses it when he eagerly helps the Mythic Dawn plot the deaths of his sister, his brother-in-law, and his unborn nephew.



*** Something interesting to note is that, even when it doesn't work out, Margaery still shows attraction to Will, even implying it's genuine. However, given how Arya [[InTheBlood has apparently taken her uncle]] [[DisproportionateRetribution Brandon's]] [[GenerationXerox approach to dealing with rival suiters]], it's unlikely to be good for her health.

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*** Something interesting to note is that, even when it doesn't work out, Margaery still shows attraction to Will, even implying it's genuine. However, given how Arya [[InTheBlood has apparently taken her uncle]] [[DisproportionateRetribution Brandon's]] [[GenerationXerox approach to dealing with rival suiters]], it's unlikely to be good for her health.health if she does not back off.



* WhatAnIdiot: [[spoiler:Theon pretty much tells this to his father after he not only rejects William's offer of independence, but also plans to attack the North, which are William's main allies.]]

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* WhatAnIdiot: [[spoiler:Theon pretty much Theon tells this to his father after he is an idiot for not only rejects rejecting William's offer of independence, but also plans planning to attack the North, which are William's main allies.]]



** William's occasional lapses into HonorBeforeReason territory can lead him into grasping the IdiotBall, the "best" example being when he was able to blackmail Littlefinger into funding the creation of the Royal Army. While that act in of itself is [[MagnificentBastard well-played]], William's decision to dispose of the evidence after Littlefinger complies rather than ratting him out and getting him replaced by someone more trustworthy was extremely foolish. William even realizes this later on and vows to dispose of Littlefinger the first chance he gets.

to:

** William's occasional lapses into HonorBeforeReason territory can lead him into grasping the IdiotBall, the "best" example being when he was able to blackmail Littlefinger into funding the creation of the Royal Army. While that the act in of itself is [[MagnificentBastard well-played]], William's decision to dispose of the evidence after Littlefinger complies rather than ratting him out and getting him replaced by someone more trustworthy was extremely foolish. William even realizes this later on and vows to dispose of Littlefinger the first chance he gets.
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None


** [[TheFundamentalist Ruma Cameran]] belongs to the bloodthirsty Mythic Dawn, a cult that worships the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. To further her deity's goals, she eagerly forces Daenerys to suffer a MagicalAbortion, [[WouldHurtAChild killing her unborn baby]] and [[WouldHitAGirl nearly killing her as well]], though not before sadistically revealing that it was Daenerys's own brother who asked her to do it, and even then, she takes great delight in the idea of killing an unborn baby.

to:

** [[TheFundamentalist Ruma Cameran]] Camoran]] belongs to the bloodthirsty Mythic Dawn, a cult that worships the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. To further her deity's goals, she eagerly forces Daenerys to suffer a MagicalAbortion, [[WouldHurtAChild killing her unborn baby]] and [[WouldHitAGirl nearly killing her as well]], though not before sadistically revealing that it was Daenerys's own brother who asked her to do it, and even then, she takes great delight in the idea of killing an unborn baby.
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None


*** Something interesting to note is that, even when it doesn't work out, Margaery still shows attraction to Will, even implying it's genuine. However, given how Arya [[InTheBlood has apparently taken her uncle]] [[DisproportionateRetribution Brandon's]] [[InTheBlood approach to dealing with rival suiters]], it's unlikely to be good for her health.

to:

*** Something interesting to note is that, even when it doesn't work out, Margaery still shows attraction to Will, even implying it's genuine. However, given how Arya [[InTheBlood has apparently taken her uncle]] [[DisproportionateRetribution Brandon's]] [[InTheBlood [[GenerationXerox approach to dealing with rival suiters]], it's unlikely to be good for her health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

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*** Something interesting to note is that, even when it doesn't work out, Margaery still shows attraction to Will, even implying it's genuine. However, given how Arya [[InTheBlood has apparently taken her uncle]] [[DisproportionateRetribution Brandon's]] [[InTheBlood approach to dealing with rival suiters]], it's unlikely to be good for her health.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Irony}}: There were two main relationships that became messed up during the events of Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark: [[ArrangedWedding Robert's betrothal to Lyanna]] and Cersei's PrecociousCrush on Rhaeghar. Following Rhaegar and Lyanna's Death, Robert and Cersei get married and show nothing but disgust for the same-gendered member of the pair (Robert hates Rhaegar for stealing his betrothed and Cersei hates Lyanna for stealing her thunder in both relationships). This hate fueled relationship eventually gives birth to William. When William is sent up north to be fostered by the Starks, he meets [[spoiler: Jon, the child (in the show at least) of Lyanna and Rhaegar. While either of his parents might have killed him out of spite, William becomes good friends with Jon even going as far as to call him [[TrueCompanions his brother after they, along with Theon and Robb fight off the King-in rags together]].]]

to:

* {{Irony}}: There were two main relationships that became messed up during the events of Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark: [[ArrangedWedding [[ArrangedMarriage Robert's betrothal to Lyanna]] and Cersei's PrecociousCrush on Rhaeghar. Following Rhaegar and Lyanna's Death, Robert and Cersei get married and show nothing but disgust for the same-gendered member of the pair (Robert hates Rhaegar for stealing his betrothed and Cersei hates Lyanna for stealing her thunder in both relationships). This hate fueled relationship eventually gives birth to William. When William is sent up north to be fostered by the Starks, he meets [[spoiler: Jon, the child (in the show at least) of Lyanna and Rhaegar. While either of his parents might have killed him out of spite, William becomes good friends with Jon even going as far as to call him [[TrueCompanions his brother after they, along with Theon and Robb fight off the King-in rags together]].]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* {{Irony}}: There were two main relationships that became messed up during the events of Prince Rhaegar's abduction of Lyanna Stark: [[ArrangedWedding Robert's betrothal to Lyanna]] and Cersei's PrecociousCrush on Rhaeghar. Following Rhaegar and Lyanna's Death, Robert and Cersei get married and show nothing but disgust for the same-gendered member of the pair (Robert hates Rhaegar for stealing his betrothed and Cersei hates Lyanna for stealing her thunder in both relationships). This hate fueled relationship eventually gives birth to William. When William is sent up north to be fostered by the Starks, he meets [[spoiler: Jon, the child (in the show at least) of Lyanna and Rhaegar. While either of his parents might have killed him out of spite, William becomes good friends with Jon even going as far as to call him [[TrueCompanions his brother after they, along with Theon and Robb fight off the King-in rags together]].]]
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*** In this point, it can be argued that anything that put Littlefinger in a bad light (be it directly, or by his association with Joffrey) would be completely ignored by Lysa, who would claim it is an attempt by William to frame Littlefinger.

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*** In this point, it can be argued that anything that put Littlefinger in a bad light (be it directly, or by his association with Joffrey) would be completely ignored by Lysa, who would claim it is an attempt by William to frame Littlefinger.Littlefinger.
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** Mya Stone and the Thieves' Guild frame the Mythic Dawn for a fake attempt on Robin Arryn's life. While this does prevent William from being framed for it like Lysa Arryn and Littlefinger had planned, a lot of reviewers have argued that it would have been smarter to frame Littlefinger (which would, possibly, shorten his list of allies and make him easier to get rid of) or Joffrey (pretty much forcing Lysa to cast her lot with William).

to:

** Mya Stone and the Thieves' Guild frame the Mythic Dawn for a fake attempt on Robin Arryn's life. While this does prevent William from being framed for it like Lysa Arryn and Littlefinger had planned, a lot of reviewers have argued that it would have been smarter to frame Littlefinger (which would, possibly, shorten his list of allies and make him easier to get rid of) or Joffrey (pretty much forcing Lysa to cast her lot with William).William).
*** In this point, it can be argued that anything that put Littlefinger in a bad light (be it directly, or by his association with Joffrey) would be completely ignored by Lysa, who would claim it is an attempt by William to frame Littlefinger.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[TheFundamentalist Ruma Cameran]] belongs to the bloodthirsty Mythic Dawn, a cult that worships the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. To further her deity's goals, she sadistically forces Daenerys to suffer a MagicalAbortion, killing her unborn baby and nearly killing her as well, though not before sadistically revealing that it was Daenerys's own brother who asked her to do it, and even then, she takes great delight in the idea of killing an unborn baby.

to:

** [[TheFundamentalist Ruma Cameran]] belongs to the bloodthirsty Mythic Dawn, a cult that worships the Daedric Prince of Destruction, Mehrunes Dagon. To further her deity's goals, she sadistically eagerly forces Daenerys to suffer a MagicalAbortion, [[WouldHurtAChild killing her unborn baby baby]] and [[WouldHitAGirl nearly killing her as well, well]], though not before sadistically revealing that it was Daenerys's own brother who asked her to do it, and even then, she takes great delight in the idea of killing an unborn baby.
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None

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* {{Fanon}}: It seems to be a general consensus that William was spanked by Catelyn for taking Arya to Fort Dawnguard, even though the author left it ambiguous. The fact that the author, when asked, found the scenario amusing didn't help much.

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