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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: Oddly enough, inverted. Many fans take issue if a SMT game isn't dark enough, and they lose interest. The threshold for TastesLikeDiabetes can be fairly low.
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** This was noticeably absent in VideoGame/DevilSurvivor and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series Shin Megami Tensei games except [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]], as well as DDS and the Raidou games.
* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferent mind-bogglingly strange]] or {{Stripperific}} demon babes could arguably qualify. Decarabia is one such example.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series Shin Megami Tensei games except [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]], as well as DDS and the Raidou games.
* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferent mind-bogglingly strange]] or {{Stripperific}} demon babes could arguably qualify. Decarabia is one such example.
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** This was noticeably absent in VideoGame/DevilSurvivor ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' and the later installments of the Persona series, both of which used a more manga, cartoony style, that severely contrasted with all the NightmareFuel of the game.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main seriesShin ''Shin Megami Tensei Tensei'' games except [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]], ''[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV IV]]'', as well as DDS ''DDS'' and the Raidou ''Raidou'' games.
* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferentmind-bogglingly mindbogglingly strange]] or {{Stripperific}} demon babes could arguably qualify. Decarabia is one such example.
*** Both of those series had different character designers for the human characters, while keeping Kazuma Kaneko's demon/persona designs. Kaneko is responsible for the human character designs in all the main series
* UglyCute: Some of the demons that aren't [[OurMonstersAreDifferent
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Oddly enough, inverted. Many fans take issue if a SMT game isn't dark enough, and they lose interest. The threshold for TastesLikeDiabetes can be fairly low.
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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: Oddly enough, inverted. Many fans take issue if a SMT game isn't dark enough, and they lose interest. The threshold for TastesLikeDiabetes can be fairly low.
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* GameBreaker: Has [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GameBreaker/ShinMegamiTensei its own page]].
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* GameBreaker: Has [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/GameBreaker/ShinMegamiTensei [[GameBreaker/ShinMegamiTensei its own page]].
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** The ''Persona'' sub-series. Many of its fans are unaware of the main series, and some of the few that do bash the games for not being more like Persona, much to the [[ItsPopularNowItSucks ire of the main series fans]]. There are some people that even love the games but still hate the fact that they've vastly overshadowed the other sub-franchises in popularity. An excellent way to start a fight is to discuss the topic of whether or not said popularity has influenced other branches of the franchise, most commonly ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' and the ''Videogame/DevilSurvivor'' duology, and whether this is a bad thing or not.
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** The ''Persona'' sub-series. Many of its fans are unaware of the main series, and some of the few that do bash the games for not being more like Persona, much to the [[ItsPopularNowItSucks ire of the main series fans]]. There are some people that even love the games but still hate the fact that they've vastly overshadowed the other sub-franchises in popularity. An excellent way to start a fight is to discuss the topic of whether or not said popularity has influenced other branches of the franchise, most commonly ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse'' and the ''Videogame/DevilSurvivor'' duology, and whether this is a bad thing or not. This only got worse with the HD Remaster of ''Nocturne'' which was seen as both low effort and low budget by a lot of people, creating the impression that Atlus just threw it out to have something to show for the main series while the ''Persona'' series gets continued attention.
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Series/XPlay, in the buildup for their 2004 award show, made a commercial that portrayed ''Nocturne'', which would take the award for Best RPG, as a political challenger against an incumbent ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII';. The sheer absurdity of an old couple talking about a pair of video games like politicians caught on, and even ''Atlus themselves'' left a comment asking "What in the damn hell is this?"[[/labelnote]]
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Series/XPlay, in the buildup for their 2004 award show, made a commercial that portrayed ''Nocturne'', which would take the award for Best RPG, as a political challenger against an incumbent ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII';.''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII''. The sheer absurdity of an old couple talking about a pair of video games like politicians caught on, and even ''Atlus themselves'' left a comment asking "What in the damn hell is this?"[[/labelnote]]
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Upon the western release of ''Nocturne'', Atlus USA released a rather peculiar TV ad for the game that is often remembered among fans.[[/labelnote]]
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Upon [[labelnote:Explanation]]Series/XPlay, in the western release of buildup for their 2004 award show, made a commercial that portrayed ''Nocturne'', Atlus USA released a rather peculiar TV ad which would take the award for Best RPG, as a political challenger against an incumbent ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsII';. The sheer absurdity of an old couple talking about a pair of video games like politicians caught on, and even ''Atlus themselves'' left a comment asking "What in the game that damn hell is often remembered among fans.[[/labelnote]]this?"[[/labelnote]]
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* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: The earlier games get this treatment a lot, due to their NoExportForYou status and generally SeinfeldIsUnfunny gameplay. Even among SMT fans, most are only aware of their Law, Chaos and Neutral endings, and the fact GodAndSatanAreBothJerks and GodIsEvil. All of these are mid-to-lategame twists in ''VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII'', ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII'' and the games have a lot of story besides these moments. SMTI doesn't even become a post-apocalypse story until the halfway point. All three games have fairly unique and original plots by RPG standards, even to this day, but very few people are fully aware of them.
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* AllThereIsToKnowAboutTheCryingGame: The earlier games get this treatment a lot, due to their NoExportForYou status and generally SeinfeldIsUnfunny gameplay. Even among SMT fans, most are only aware of their Law, Chaos and Neutral endings, and the fact GodAndSatanAreBothJerks and GodIsEvil. All of these are mid-to-lategame twists in ''VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII'', ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI'' and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII'' and the games have a lot of story besides these moments. SMTI doesn't even become a post-apocalypse story until the halfway point. All three games have fairly unique and original plots by RPG standards, even to this day, but very few people are fully aware of them.
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** The Law-alignment from ''SMT'' proper is this for its belief in a WorldOfSilence where all worships [[GodIsEvil YHVH]] for eternity, getting ''tons'' of controversy coming from America. That said, it's actually considered a reasonable option in Japan, largely because their values system promotes social harmony, cooperation and compromise, and ideas such as destabilizing said social harmony for the sake of freedom are [[ValuesDissonance widely considered selfish and wrong there.]] It helps that Christianity isn't as big in Japan; had the original games been released in the US in the 90's, cartridge-burning protests would've likely ensued from MoralGuardian parents. [[http://gonintendo.com/stories/125558-shin-megami-tensei-law-chaos-and-the-american-way This link really sums it up nicely.]]
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Lucifer's been called a heroic revolutionary, a despicable SocialDarwinist, and everything in between. A common debate among fans is whether he's actually morally better than YHVH or if he's just better at selling his pitch; he is the [[ConsummateLiar Father of Lies]], after all. YHVH, on the other hand, is LoveToHate at best and TheScrappy at worst.
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Lucifer's been called a heroic revolutionary, a despicable SocialDarwinist, and everything in between. A common debate among fans is whether he's actually morally better than YHVH or if he's just better at selling his pitch; he is the [[ConsummateLiar Father of Lies]], after all. YHVH, on the other hand, is LoveToHate at best and TheScrappy at worst.
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** The Law-alignment from ''SMT'' proper is this for its belief in a WorldOfSilence where all worships [[GodIsEvil YHVH]] for eternity, getting ''tons'' of controversy coming from America. That said, it's actually considered a reasonable option in Japan, largely because their values system promotes social harmony, cooperation and compromise, and ideas such as destabilizing said social harmony for the sake of freedom are [[ValuesDissonance widely considered selfish and wrong there.]] It helps that Christianity isn't as big in Japan; had the original games been released in the US in the 90's, cartridge-burning protests would've likely ensued from MoralGuardian parents. [[http://gonintendo.com/stories/125558-shin-megami-tensei-law-chaos-and-the-american-way This link really sums it up nicely.]]
]] Recently, more favourable depictions of law in ''Strange Journey Redux, Devil Survivor Overclocked'' and ''Devil Survivor 2'' have made law more popular in the west, especially whenever social Darwinism begins to get looked down upon for unrelated reasons.
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Lucifer's been called a heroic revolutionary, a despicable SocialDarwinist, and everything in between. A common debate among fans is whether he's actually morally better than YHVH or if he's just better at selling his pitch; he is the [[ConsummateLiar Father of Lies]], after all. It doesn't help that ''Tyrant'' demons are associated with Chaos and will likely be the ones calling the morally depraved shots given their ability to overpower most humans and demons, undermining the idea of true freedom which anti-chaos fans point on. YHVH, on the other hand, is LoveToHate at best and TheScrappy atworst.worst, though he's more positively received in ''Devil Survivor''.
* BaseBreakingCharacter: Lucifer's been called a heroic revolutionary, a despicable SocialDarwinist, and everything in between. A common debate among fans is whether he's actually morally better than YHVH or if he's just better at selling his pitch; he is the [[ConsummateLiar Father of Lies]], after all. It doesn't help that ''Tyrant'' demons are associated with Chaos and will likely be the ones calling the morally depraved shots given their ability to overpower most humans and demons, undermining the idea of true freedom which anti-chaos fans point on. YHVH, on the other hand, is LoveToHate at best and TheScrappy at
*** The release of ''Strange Journey Redux'' and ''Devil Surivor 2'' on the other hand has finally put chaos into this position. One of the primary arguments against chaos is that true freedom is impossible if it's based on MightMakesRight, as the strong will inevitably oppress the weak. Social Darwinism being a core element of fascism (while ''Devil Survivor 2'' and ''Strange Journey Redux'' show law in practice resembling ''Communism'' more) with the Tyrant race being associated with chaos doesn't help too. Walter's adamant desire to enforce MightMakesRight (Despite being lower class himself), as well as Yamato's world governed by self interest in ''Devil Survivor 2'', now gets chaos heroes branded as hypocrites only concerned with their own freedom, whilst being free to oppress others. However, the new chaos ending in ''Redux'' shows that chaos is capable of advocating for a world of infinite possibility where humans, Gods and demons can coexist and choose ''not'' get in each other's way. Also, fans of chaos scoff at the idea of hypocrisy, as Lucifer, Walter and other chaos heroes always concede defeat if you beat them as per their ideologies.
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** The way fusion is handled in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'', ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} Golden'', and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. Some complain that part of the fun of fusion is unpredictable RNG result and that being able to choose exactly which skills to pass on to the fusion result makes for a boring and excessively forgiving gameplay experience. Others see it as a great AntiFrustrationFeature and point out that in practice, random skill inheritance boils down to tediously rerolling fusions over and over just to get the skills the player wants.
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** The way fusion is handled in ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'', ''VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} Golden'', and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV''. Some complain that part of the fun of fusion is unpredictable RNG result and that being able to choose exactly which skills to pass on to the fusion result makes for a boring and excessively forgiving gameplay experience. Others see it as a great AntiFrustrationFeature and point out that in practice, random skill inheritance boils down to tediously rerolling fusions over and over just to get the skills the player wants. As one of the main complaints for the ''Nocutrne'' HD remaster was ''not'' using the newer fusion system, it appears the old RNG love is falling out of favor, and fans were happy when it was later updated.
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* CultClassic: [[AmericansHateTingle Outside of Japan]], the non-''Persona'' games tend to be this. They may not have the explosive worldwide popularity of the Hashino-era ''Persona'' games and their spin-offs, but they still have their share of dedicated fans.
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* CultClassic: [[AmericansHateTingle Outside of Japan]], the non-''Persona'' games tend to be this.this, and even ''Persona 1'' and ''2'' still appear to be this in the west. They may not have the explosive worldwide popularity of the Hashino-era ''Persona'' games and their spin-offs, but they still have their share of dedicated fans.
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** Play a real ''Shin Megami Tensei''/''Shin Megoomi Tensay'' game! [[labelnote:Explanation]]A rather infamous video has two men stage a debate embodying the countless Mainline vs Persona arguments in the fanbase. The one arguing for mainline says this partway in, and both sides of the fanbase have run wild with it. The franchise name is sometimes butchered like the original video. What does or doesn't qualify as a real ''Shin Megami Tensei'' game, other than actual mainline games and modern ''Persona'', is up to debate.[[/labelnote]]
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** Play a real ''Shin Megami Tensei''/''Shin Megoomi Tensay'' game! [[labelnote:Explanation]]A rather infamous video has two men stage a debate embodying the countless Mainline vs Persona arguments in the fanbase. The one arguing for mainline says this partway in, and both sides of the fanbase have run wild with it. The franchise name is sometimes butchered like the original video. What does or doesn't qualify as a real ''Shin Megami Tensei'' game, other than actual mainline games and modern ''Persona'', is up to debate. So much so that many joke ''Jack Bros'', the Virutal Boy puzzle spin off, is the only real ''SMT'' game despite being far removed from all its mechanics.[[/labelnote]]
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* BrokenBase:
%% ** Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.
** There are quite a lot of arguments over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands outs. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio/Yuji]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.
%% ** Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.
** There are quite a lot of arguments over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands outs. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio/Yuji]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.
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* BrokenBase:
%% ** Alignments. GameBrokenBase: Because the series has a lax, minimalist tone in most games yet allows players a high degree of choice. There's a ''lot'' freedom with several factions to argue over.
** Therefollow, differing opinions are quite a lot of arguments common, and in many ways embraced, by the fanbase.
** Arguments inevitably debate over the alignments as a whole, but Law standsouts.out, in particular. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio/Yuji]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.
%% ** Alignments. Game
** There
** Arguments inevitably debate over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands
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** Demon negotiation. While many love the extra choices it provides in battle and find it a fun and unique way of gaining new party members, there's another faction that dislikes it for how much of a LuckBasedMission it can be, especially when it comes to Demons demanding items or money. (Horror stories of players dumping most of their inventory on a Demon only for it to run away are common)
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* MexicansLoveSpeedyGonzales: With the series depiction of [[GodIsEvil YHVH]] and the angels, you'd be surprised to find it has a decent number of Christian fans.
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Zero content example.
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** Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.
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%% ** Alignments. Game of choice. There's a ''lot'' to argue over.
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I can't belive someone hadn't added this yet.
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** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJrEwEMIpM Vote Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]] [[labelnote:Explanation]]Upon the western release of ''Nocturne'', Atlus USA released a rather peculiar TV ad for the game that is often remembered among fans.[[/labelnote]]
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** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdYEP7NXgAEkhgs?format=png&name=small A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
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** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdYEP7NXgAEkhgs?format=png&name=small A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s Frost's signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
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* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: Tends to be averted for the most part, but ''Liberator Dx2'' on iOS and Android proved a notable exception. Despite characters attempting suicide ''onscreen'' in the first few hours of the game, scantily-clad demons, subplots involving the underground criminal syndicates, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and]] [[GagPenis Mara]], the powers that be at the App Store (who, to be fair, were likely unfamiliar with the franchise's reputation) [[AnimationAgeGhetto took one look at the cartoony graphics and figured it was appropriate]] for '''everyone 10 and up'''.
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* WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForKids: Tends to be averted for the most part, but ''Liberator Dx2'' [=Dx2=]'' on iOS and Android proved a notable exception. Despite characters attempting suicide ''onscreen'' in the first few hours of the game, scantily-clad demons, subplots involving the underground criminal syndicates, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and]] [[GagPenis Mara]], the powers that be at the App Store (who, to be fair, were likely unfamiliar with the franchise's reputation) [[AnimationAgeGhetto took one look at the cartoony graphics and figured it was appropriate]] for '''everyone 10 and up'''.
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** ''VideoGame/Devil Survivor'' is also popular with Fire Emblem fans due to playing like the grid-based strategy ''Fire Emblem'' games.
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** ''VideoGame/Devil Survivor'' ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' is also popular with Fire Emblem fans due to playing like the grid-based strategy ''Fire Emblem'' games.
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** [[https://youtu.be/IfHZQiFwcBE The Fiend theme]] from ''Nocturne'', easily well-known due to being the battle theme of the infamous WakeUpCallBoss Matador. It would later be used again for the Fiends in ''IMAGINE'', ''SMT IV'', and ''IV Apocalypse''.
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** [[https://youtu.be/IfHZQiFwcBE [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1WeimmTGF4 The Fiend theme]] from ''Nocturne'', easily well-known due to being the battle theme of the infamous WakeUpCallBoss Matador. It would later be used again for the Fiends in ''IMAGINE'', ''SMT IV'', and ''IV Apocalypse''.
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* SignatureSong:
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyNliJt4-f0 The original Law theme]] from ''SMT I'' is easily the most recognizable Law theme, and has reappeared in other games as arranged versions in similar contexts.
** [[https://youtu.be/IfHZQiFwcBE The Fiend theme]] from ''Nocturne'', easily well-known due to being the battle theme of the infamous WakeUpCallBoss Matador. It would later be used again for the Fiends in ''IMAGINE'', ''SMT IV'', and ''IV Apocalypse''.
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyNliJt4-f0 The original Law theme]] from ''SMT I'' is easily the most recognizable Law theme, and has reappeared in other games as arranged versions in similar contexts.
** [[https://youtu.be/IfHZQiFwcBE The Fiend theme]] from ''Nocturne'', easily well-known due to being the battle theme of the infamous WakeUpCallBoss Matador. It would later be used again for the Fiends in ''IMAGINE'', ''SMT IV'', and ''IV Apocalypse''.
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** There are quite a lot of arguments over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands outs. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.
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** There are quite a lot of arguments over the alignments as a whole, but Law stands outs. Either it's a LawfulNeutral faction that, despite its flaws, [[WellIntentionedExtremist means well for humanity]], and its collectivist beliefs in the face of soul-corrupting demons is a NecessaryEvil... or it's a brutal, tyrannical, fascist nightmare demanding humanity's [[TheEvilsOfFreeWill mindless submission to YHVH]], and [[YouBastard you should feel bad if you side with it.]] So yeah... support [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI Yoshio]], Yoshio/Yuji]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII Zayin]], [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Zelenin]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV Jonathan]] at your own risk.
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** ''VideoGame/TokyoMirageSessionsFE''. First, for being a huge AudienceAlienatingPremise. Many fans were expecting something like ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', considering ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' is a turn-based strategy game, or at least a [=SMT=] game with FE elements. And second, for looking more a "Persona" game rather than a [=SMT=] or FE game. While some fans consider it a good title despite not resembling [=SMT=] at all, other think this was another average {{Moe}} game and a wasted opportunity to make a crossover of two acclaimed franchises.
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** ''VideoGame/TokyoMirageSessionsFE''. First, for being a huge AudienceAlienatingPremise. Many fans were expecting something like ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' or more ultimately ''VideoGame/MajinTensei'', considering ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' is a turn-based strategy game, or at least a [=SMT=] game with FE elements. And second, for looking more a "Persona" game rather than a [=SMT=] or FE game. While some fans consider it a good title despite not resembling [=SMT=] at all, other think this was another average {{Moe}} game and a wasted opportunity to make a crossover of two acclaimed franchises.
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** 2019 then introduced ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'' which many ''SMT'' and ''Fire Emblem'' fans acted as a better crossover between the franchises than the official ''Tokyo Mirage Sessions''. This was due to the titular three houses have a route that corresponds to the Law, Neutral and Chaos paths of ''SMT'', the darker and philosophy heavy storyline, the time management and school life elements contributing to relationship values appealing to ''Persona'' fans, and said ''Persona'' fans noting that the main colors of ''Persona 3, 4, and 5'' corresponded in terms of story elements with their matching House. (The Blue Lions and thematically Blue Persona 3 focus on facing past grudges with a moody protagonist, The Golden Deer and thematically Yellow Persona 4 are about discovering the truth behind the scenes and finally, the red Black Eagles and thematically red Persona 5 are about challenging the status quo.)
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** 2019 then introduced ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'' which many ''SMT'' and ''Fire Emblem'' fans acted as a better crossover between the franchises than the official ''Tokyo Mirage Sessions''. This was due to the titular three houses have having a route that corresponds to the Law, Neutral and Chaos paths of ''SMT'', the darker and philosophy heavy storyline, the time management and school life elements contributing to relationship values appealing which appealed to ''Persona'' fans, and said ''Persona'' fans noting that the main colors of ''Persona 3, 4, and 5'' corresponded in terms of story elements with their matching House. (The [[labelnote:Explanation]]The Blue Lions and thematically Blue Persona 3 focus on facing past grudges with a moody protagonist, The Golden Deer and thematically Yellow Persona 4 are about discovering the truth behind the scenes with a more extroverted protagonist, and finally, the red Black Eagles and thematically red Persona 5 are about challenging the status quo.)quo with a charismatic protagonist that has an alter ego.[[/labelnote]]
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** The video games starring the lovable series mascot Jack Frost also act as a "cult classic within a cult classic" given that his first game ''Jack Bros'' is on the hard to get UsefulNotes/VirtualBoy while his {{Metroidvania}} game, ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiSynchronicityPrologue'', released as a jokey promotion for ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney Redux'' was only released for a short while in Japan in Japanese only, requiring his fans to KeepCirculatingTheTapes with an English fan translation. Consensus on both games, however, is that ''Jack Bros.'' is pretty great in spite of being on the Virtual Boy while ''Synchronicity Prologue'' is far better than any joke game has any right to be, with quite a few stating they were now more interested in an expansion of the Metroidvania as opposed to the ''Strange Journey'' remake it was promoting.
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* FriendlyFandoms: There's a good amount of fandom overlap with ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' for their tough as nails, yet satisfying gameplay and simple yet dark stories. This was helped further after the announcement of the crossover between the two series. And even after the back-draft that resulted from the full reveal of the crossover game, the friendliness between the fanbases endured, perhaps even stronger than ever.
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* FriendlyFandoms: There's a good amount of fandom overlap with ''Franchise/FireEmblem'' for their tough as nails, yet satisfying gameplay and simple yet dark stories. stories:
** ''VideoGame/Devil Survivor'' is also popular with Fire Emblem fans due to playing like the grid-based strategy ''Fire Emblem'' games.
** This was helped further after the announcement of the crossover between the two series. And even after the back-draft that resulted from the full reveal of the crossover game, the friendliness between the fanbases endured, perhaps even stronger than ever.
** 2019 then introduced ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'' which many ''SMT'' and ''Fire Emblem'' fans acted as a better crossover between the franchises than the official ''Tokyo Mirage Sessions''. This was due to the titular three houses have a route that corresponds to the Law, Neutral and Chaos paths of ''SMT'', the darker and philosophy heavy storyline, the time management and school life elements contributing to relationship values appealing to ''Persona'' fans, and said ''Persona'' fans noting that the main colors of ''Persona 3, 4, and 5'' corresponded in terms of story elements with their matching House. (The Blue Lions and thematically Blue Persona 3 focus on facing past grudges with a moody protagonist, The Golden Deer and thematically Yellow Persona 4 are about discovering the truth behind the scenes and finally, the red Black Eagles and thematically red Persona 5 are about challenging the status quo.)
** ''VideoGame/Devil Survivor'' is also popular with Fire Emblem fans due to playing like the grid-based strategy ''Fire Emblem'' games.
** This was helped further after the announcement of the crossover between the two series. And even after the back-draft that resulted from the full reveal of the crossover game, the friendliness between the fanbases endured, perhaps even stronger than ever.
** 2019 then introduced ''VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses'' which many ''SMT'' and ''Fire Emblem'' fans acted as a better crossover between the franchises than the official ''Tokyo Mirage Sessions''. This was due to the titular three houses have a route that corresponds to the Law, Neutral and Chaos paths of ''SMT'', the darker and philosophy heavy storyline, the time management and school life elements contributing to relationship values appealing to ''Persona'' fans, and said ''Persona'' fans noting that the main colors of ''Persona 3, 4, and 5'' corresponded in terms of story elements with their matching House. (The Blue Lions and thematically Blue Persona 3 focus on facing past grudges with a moody protagonist, The Golden Deer and thematically Yellow Persona 4 are about discovering the truth behind the scenes and finally, the red Black Eagles and thematically red Persona 5 are about challenging the status quo.)
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** While ''VideoGame/Persona4'' used to hold this position, ''VideoGame/Persona5'' caused a massive NewbieBoom among mainstream audiences who had otherwise never even touched a ''Persona'' game before, let alone the SMT series, which firmly landed it in this category. In fact, ''P5'' is sometimes given this treatment ''even among Persona-exclusive fans''. This escalated after the protagonist of ''Persona 5'' was announced as a DLC fighter for ''VideoGame/SuperSmash BrosUltimate'' with no representation for any games outside of the ''Persona'' series, which resulted in a second wave of newbies joining the fandom and further outcries from the usual suspects that the game was overhyped.
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** While ''VideoGame/Persona4'' used to hold this position, ''VideoGame/Persona5'' caused a massive NewbieBoom among mainstream audiences who had otherwise never even touched a ''Persona'' game before, let alone the SMT series, which firmly landed it in this category. In fact, ''P5'' is sometimes given this treatment ''even among Persona-exclusive fans''. This escalated after the protagonist of ''Persona 5'' was announced as a DLC fighter for ''VideoGame/SuperSmash BrosUltimate'' ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosUltimate'' with no representation for any games outside of the ''Persona'' series, which resulted in a second wave of newbies joining the fandom and further outcries from the usual suspects that the game was overhyped.
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Changed line(s) 47 (click to see context) from:
** While ''VideoGame/Persona4'' used to hold this position, ''VideoGame/Persona5'' caused a massive NewbieBoom among mainstream audiences who had otherwise never even touched a ''Persona'' game before, let alone the SMT series, which firmly landed it in this category. In fact, ''P5'' is sometimes given this treatment ''even among Persona-exclusive fans''. This escalated after the protagonist of ''Persona 5'' was announced as a DLC fighter for ''VideoGame/Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' with no representation for any games outside of the ''Persona'' series, which resulted in a second wave of newbies joining the fandom and further outcries from the usual suspects that the game was overhyped.
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** While ''VideoGame/Persona4'' used to hold this position, ''VideoGame/Persona5'' caused a massive NewbieBoom among mainstream audiences who had otherwise never even touched a ''Persona'' game before, let alone the SMT series, which firmly landed it in this category. In fact, ''P5'' is sometimes given this treatment ''even among Persona-exclusive fans''. This escalated after the protagonist of ''Persona 5'' was announced as a DLC fighter for ''VideoGame/Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' ''VideoGame/SuperSmash BrosUltimate'' with no representation for any games outside of the ''Persona'' series, which resulted in a second wave of newbies joining the fandom and further outcries from the usual suspects that the game was overhyped.
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%% * ParanoiaFuel: An integral part of many of the ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'' games.
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%% * ParanoiaFuel: An integral part of many of the ''VideoGame/{{Persona}}'' ''Franchise/{{Persona}}'' games.
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** "ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A Fox News broadcast on June 5th, 2020 (in light of the George Floyd riots) listed "Attack and dethrone God" as one of the goals of antifa protesters, who they claimed to be associated with the (long-defunct) Weather Underground Organization. The phrase immediately began trending on Twitter alongside ''Shin Megami Tensei'', as ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD suucintly describes what the franchise is about.[[/labelnote]]
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** "ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A Fox News broadcast on June 5th, 2020 (in light of the George Floyd riots) listed "Attack and dethrone God" as one of the goals of antifa protesters, who they claimed to be associated with the (long-defunct) Weather Underground Organization. The phrase immediately began trending on Twitter alongside ''Shin Megami Tensei'', as ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD suucintly succinctly describes what the franchise is about.about. This meme quickly became more popular after the HD remaster of ''Nocturne'' and the release date of ''Shin Megami Tensei V'' were revealed.[[/labelnote]]
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** '''HEE FUCKING HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO''' [[labelnote:Explanation]]A variant of the popular "LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" meme with the face having Jack Frost's hat, which became more popular after the HD remaster of ''[[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne Nocturne]]'' and ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV's'' release date being revealed, much to the joy of the fans of the franchise.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Shin Megami Tensei'' is the ''Dark Souls'' of ''Persona'' [[labelnote:Explanation]]More people are familiar with ''Persona'' than ''Shin Megami Tensei'', so some people who had previously played a ''Persona'' game before playing an SMT game would compare it to ''VideoGame/DarkSouls''.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Shin Megami Tensei'' is a ''Persona'' spin-off [[labelnote:Explanation]]Many people are more familiar with ''Persona'' than with ''Shin Megami Tensei'', so some might think that the latter is the spin-off of the former when the reverse is actually true. [=MegaTen=] fans made jokes about it. This rose in popularity after the July 2020 Nintendo Direct Mini.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Shin Megami Tensei'' is the ''Dark Souls'' of ''Persona'' [[labelnote:Explanation]]More people are familiar with ''Persona'' than ''Shin Megami Tensei'', so some people who had previously played a ''Persona'' game before playing an SMT game would compare it to ''VideoGame/DarkSouls''.[[/labelnote]]
** ''Shin Megami Tensei'' is a ''Persona'' spin-off [[labelnote:Explanation]]Many people are more familiar with ''Persona'' than with ''Shin Megami Tensei'', so some might think that the latter is the spin-off of the former when the reverse is actually true. [=MegaTen=] fans made jokes about it. This rose in popularity after the July 2020 Nintendo Direct Mini.[[/labelnote]]
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** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://mobile.twitter.com/TheofficialJugg/status/1285219419535409152/photo/1 A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
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** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://mobile.twitter.com/TheofficialJugg/status/1285219419535409152/photo/1 [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdYEP7NXgAEkhgs?format=png&name=small A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
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** "ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A Fox News broadcast on June 5th, 2020 (in light of the George Floyd riots) listed "Attack and dethrone God" as one of the goals of the Weather Underground Organization, which was soon subject to jokes on Twitter about ''Shin Megami Tensei''.[[/labelnote]]
to:
** "ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD"[[labelnote:Explanation]]A Fox News broadcast on June 5th, 2020 (in light of the George Floyd riots) listed "Attack and dethrone God" as one of the goals of antifa protesters, who they claimed to be associated with the (long-defunct) Weather Underground Organization, which was soon subject to jokes Organization. The phrase immediately began trending on Twitter about alongside ''Shin Megami Tensei''.Tensei'', as ATTACK AND DETHRONE GOD suucintly describes what the franchise is about.[[/labelnote]]
** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://mobile.twitter.com/TheofficialJugg/status/1285219419535409152/photo/1 A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
** HEE-HOES MAD [[labelnote:Explanation]][[https://mobile.twitter.com/TheofficialJugg/status/1285219419535409152/photo/1 A mash-up]] of the ever-popular "Hoes mad" meme with Jack Frost:s signature verbal tic. It exploded in popularity after the 7/20/2020 Nintendo Direct Mini received backlash from mainstream gamers who were hoping for news on anything other than [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne an HD remaster of a 17-year old JRPG]] and [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV a niche JRPG stuck in development hell for over 3 years]]. [[/labelnote]]
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*** Maybe too many people hating and killing in its name? Worse: believing that they do good and what they feel is love? This world runs on GodsNeedPrayerBadly. -> HumansAreBastards.
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*** Maybe too many people hating and killing in its their name? Worse: believing that they do good and what they feel is love? This world runs on GodsNeedPrayerBadly. -> HumansAreBastards.
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** Mara has never had a major story role, yet is one of the most popular demons alongside the Frost family due to his infamous GagPenis appearance and all of the {{Double Entendre}}s he makes in his dialogue. In the official demon popularity poll ran by Atlus in Japan for Strange Journey's remake, Mara came in '''first''', surpassing other fan-favorites like Jack Frost, Alice and Pixie.
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** Mara has never had a major story role, yet is one of the most popular demons alongside the Frost family due to his infamous GagPenis appearance and all of the {{Double Entendre}}s he makes in his dialogue. In the official demon popularity poll ran by Atlus in Japan for Strange Journey's remake, Mara came in '''first''', '''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty3wxa2UAaE first]]''', surpassing other fan-favorites like Jack Frost, Alice and Pixie.
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** Mara has never had a major story role, yet is one of the most popular demons alongside the Frost family due to his infamous GagPenis appearance and all of the {{Double Entendre}}s he makes in his dialogue.
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** Mara has never had a major story role, yet is one of the most popular demons alongside the Frost family due to his infamous GagPenis appearance and all of the {{Double Entendre}}s he makes in his dialogue. In the official demon popularity poll ran by Atlus in Japan for Strange Journey's remake, Mara came in '''first''', surpassing other fan-favorites like Jack Frost, Alice and Pixie.
