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Requires Word Of God confirmation
Deleted line(s) 4,7 (click to see context) :
* AuthorsSavingThrow:
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her. Her simply not being able to reverse the curse herself is plausible too, given how powerful Ingrid was.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Manipulative B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** The episode gives official confirmation that magic objects brought from other worlds can still work - explaining some previous FridgeLogic about magic outside of Storybrooke.
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her. Her simply not being able to reverse the curse herself is plausible too, given how powerful Ingrid was.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Manipulative B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** The episode gives official confirmation that magic objects brought from other worlds can still work - explaining some previous FridgeLogic about magic outside of Storybrooke.
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None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
to:
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent {{Manipulative B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** Zelena surviving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'', one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. No explanation was ever provided for it, so one can only assume that her magic being still in the amulet helped things along.
to:
** Zelena surviving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'', one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. No confirmed explanation was ever provided for it, so one can only assume that her magic being still in the amulet helped things along.
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Magnificent Bastard needs to be approved by the cleanup thread. And Zelena being a rapist can't count.
Deleted line(s) 14 (click to see context) :
* MagnificentBitch: Zelena proved herself to be one in this episode - giving Regina a HopeSpot with the intention of destroying her happiness, forcing Rumple into making a deal with her to both get immunity from him when he gets his powers back and ensuring that she get the Author's help (so she wouldn't have to live without magic forever).
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None
Changed line(s) 2,4 (click to see context) from:
** Zelena surviving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'', one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. Whether an explanation will be provided for this, and whether it's a believable one, remains to be seen.
*** It hasn't been confirmed, but Season 5's reveal that Hades, the god of death, had fallen in love with Zelena provides a very possible (though {{Retcon}}ned) explanation for how she was able to come back--because he wouldn't let her die.
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier.
*** It hasn't been confirmed, but Season 5's reveal that Hades, the god of death, had fallen in love with Zelena provides a very possible (though {{Retcon}}ned) explanation for how she was able to come back--because he wouldn't let her die.
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier.
to:
** Zelena surviving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'', one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. Whether an No explanation will be was ever provided for this, and whether it's a believable one, remains to be seen.
*** It hasn't been confirmed, but Season 5's revealit, so one can only assume that Hades, her magic being still in the god of death, had fallen in love with Zelena provides a very possible (though {{Retcon}}ned) explanation for how she was able to come back--because he wouldn't let her die.
amulet helped things along.
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier. Additionally she had previously shown herself to be excellent at pretending to be something she's not - making it believable that she could fool everyone.
*** It hasn't been confirmed, but Season 5's reveal
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier. Additionally she had previously shown herself to be excellent at pretending to be something she's not - making it believable that she could fool everyone.
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
to:
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her. Her simply not being able to reverse the curse herself is plausible too, given how powerful Ingrid was.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** The episode gives official confirmation that magic objects brought from other worlds can still work - explaining some previous FridgeLogic about magic outside of Storybrooke.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** The episode gives official confirmation that magic objects brought from other worlds can still work - explaining some previous FridgeLogic about magic outside of Storybrooke.
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing it.
to:
* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
** Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashingit.it.
** Robin and Will's first meeting here - and the nice thing Robin does for Will - is a little sad for those who watched ''Series/OnceUponATimeInWonderland'' and know that Will eventually stole from Robin, souring their friendship (which does not get rebuilt until Robin comes to Storybrooke).
* HoYay: There's quite a bit in Robin and Will's first meeting - with both sharing heart-to-hearts about their loved ones - and even hugging goodbye (though that was mainly so Robin could slip Will the elixir).
** Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing
** Robin and Will's first meeting here - and the nice thing Robin does for Will - is a little sad for those who watched ''Series/OnceUponATimeInWonderland'' and know that Will eventually stole from Robin, souring their friendship (which does not get rebuilt until Robin comes to Storybrooke).
* HoYay: There's quite a bit in Robin and Will's first meeting - with both sharing heart-to-hearts about their loved ones - and even hugging goodbye (though that was mainly so Robin could slip Will the elixir).
Added DiffLines:
* MagnificentBitch: Zelena proved herself to be one in this episode - giving Regina a HopeSpot with the intention of destroying her happiness, forcing Rumple into making a deal with her to both get immunity from him when he gets his powers back and ensuring that she get the Author's help (so she wouldn't have to live without magic forever).
* SugarWiki/SheReallyCanAct: Christie Laing finally gets to show off her talents - playing Zelena pretending to be Marian, Zelena not pretending (but still using Marian's form) and Marian in the past.
* SugarWiki/SheReallyCanAct: Christie Laing finally gets to show off her talents - playing Zelena pretending to be Marian, Zelena not pretending (but still using Marian's form) and Marian in the past.
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None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
to:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: AuthorsSavingThrow:
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
** The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. This even explains why Ingrid chose Marian to curse, since she surely was able to detect Zelena's magic and would want to ensure there were no rival witches to contend with (she already had both Gold and Regina to worry about); presumably Zelena allowed it to happen as part of her ruse (and to twist the knife between Robin and Regina, forcing the former to be her True Love again to save her), counting on the heroes to eventually find a way to defeat Ingrid and restore her.
** On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 9 (click to see context) :
* LoveItOrHateIt: Probably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or if you think she should've stayed dead and Maleficent should take center stage, since every episode this arc has been building to her finding her daughter. On the plus side, having her be the one really behind everything allows for a possibility for redemption for Rumple, and even perhaps an EnemyMine that can be part of how Maleficent gets her happy ending.
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None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* SpoiledByTheFormat: The flashback with Robin in Oz seems to be an attempt to avoid doing this for the revelation that Zelena is still alive. Still it did make a few viewers raise eyebrows that Rebecca Mader would be brought back for just one scene.
to:
* SpoiledByTheFormat: The flashback with Robin in Oz seems to be an attempt to avoid doing this for the revelation that Zelena is still alive. Still it did make a few viewers raise eyebrows that Rebecca Mader would be brought back for just one scene.scene.
* UnexpectedCharacter: Nobody really thought Zelena would come back to life.
* UnexpectedCharacter: Nobody really thought Zelena would come back to life.
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None
Added DiffLines:
*** It hasn't been confirmed, but Season 5's reveal that Hades, the god of death, had fallen in love with Zelena provides a very possible (though {{Retcon}}ned) explanation for how she was able to come back--because he wouldn't let her die.
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Removed "Villain Sue", since it is now a Flame Bait example that should not be allowed; see "Flame Bait" page for more details.
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true MagnificentBitch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
to:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true MagnificentBitch {{Magnificent B|astard}}itch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* SpoiledByTheFormat: The flashback with Robin in Oz seems to be an attempt to avoid doing this for the revelation that Zelena is still alive. Still it did make a few viewers raise eyebrows that Rebecca Mader would be brought back for just one scene.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't. Even better; she was powerless at the time.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't. Even better; she was powerless at the time.
to:
* SpoiledByTheFormat: The flashback with Robin in Oz seems to be an attempt to avoid doing this for the revelation that Zelena is still alive. Still it did make a few viewers raise eyebrows that Rebecca Mader would be brought back for just one scene.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't. Even better; she was powerless at the time.scene.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't. Even better; she was powerless at the time.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* SpoiledByTheFormat: The flashback with Robin in Oz seems to be an attempt to avoid doing this for the revelation that Zelena is still alive. Still it did make a few viewers raise eyebrows that Rebecca Mader would be brought back for just one scene.
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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't.
to:
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't. Even better; she was powerless at the time.
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. Whether an explanation will be provided for this, and whether it's a believable one, remains to be seen.
to:
** Zelena surving surviving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' Dagger'', one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. Whether an explanation will be provided for this, and whether it's a believable one, remains to be seen.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived.
to:
** Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived. Whether an explanation will be provided for this, and whether it's a believable one, remains to be seen.
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or if you think she should've staedy dead and Maleficent should take center stage since every episode this arc has been building to her finding her daughter.
to:
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably Probably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or if you think she should've staedy stayed dead and Maleficent should take center stage stage, since every episode this arc has been building to her finding her daughter.daughter. On the plus side, having her be the one really behind everything allows for a possibility for redemption for Rumple, and even perhaps an EnemyMine that can be part of how Maleficent gets her happy ending.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived.
to:
* AssPull: AssPull:
** Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived.
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier.
** Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be no logical way that she survived.
** Her having an item that allowed her to use a {{Glamour}}, however, subverts this, since it neatly explains how she posed as Ariel earlier.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless with that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be noway she survived.
to:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless with without that amulet Glinda gave her, so there should be noway no logical way that she survived.
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or those who think she should stay dead and let Maleficent and Rumpel take center stae.
to:
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or those who if you think she should stay should've staedy dead and let Maleficent and Rumpel should take center stae.stage since every episode this arc has been building to her finding her daughter.
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None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless with that amulet Glinda gave her.
to:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless with that amulet Glinda gave her.her, so there should be noway she survived.
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: Zelena's return. Is it a riveting plot twist? Or does it just cements the SeasonalRot of Season 4, especially since the conflict between Maleficent and the Charmings, and Emma being caught in the middle provides ample story material.
to:
* BrokenBase: Zelena's return. Is it a riveting plot twist? Or does it just cements cement the SeasonalRot of Season 4, especially since the conflict between Maleficent and the Charmings, and Emma being caught in the middle provides ample story material.
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* JerkassWoobie: Between his speech about Baelfire and how he has "pushed away every chance of happiness he'd been given", his heart literally being poisoned by his dark deeds, the cruelty of Zelena's taunting, and him ending up in the position he's in because she's making him (and to stay alive), Gold is moving back into this trope again.
to:
* JerkassWoobie: Between his speech about Baelfire and how he has "pushed away every chance of happiness he'd been given", his heart literally being poisoned by his dark deeds, the cruelty of Zelena's taunting, and him ending up in the position he's in because she's making him (and to stay alive), Gold is moving back into this trope again.again.
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or those who think she should stay dead and let Maleficent and Rumpel take center stae.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't.
* LoveItOrHateIt: Proably one of the most divisive episodes. It really boils down to if you love the idea of Zelena being brought back or those who think she should stay dead and let Maleficent and Rumpel take center stae.
* VillainSue: Zelena. She was able to cheat death in ways even Rumpel couldn't.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* AssPull: Zelena surving being stabbed by the ''Dark One's Dagger'' one of the most dangerous dark objects in existence. Zelena even said herself that she was powerless with that amulet Glinda gave her.
Added DiffLines:
* BrokenBase: Zelena's return. Is it a riveting plot twist? Or does it just cements the SeasonalRot of Season 4, especially since the conflict between Maleficent and the Charmings, and Emma being caught in the middle provides ample story material.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing it.
to:
* HarsherInHindsight: Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing it.it.
* JerkassWoobie: Between his speech about Baelfire and how he has "pushed away every chance of happiness he'd been given", his heart literally being poisoned by his dark deeds, the cruelty of Zelena's taunting, and him ending up in the position he's in because she's making him (and to stay alive), Gold is moving back into this trope again.
* JerkassWoobie: Between his speech about Baelfire and how he has "pushed away every chance of happiness he'd been given", his heart literally being poisoned by his dark deeds, the cruelty of Zelena's taunting, and him ending up in the position he's in because she's making him (and to stay alive), Gold is moving back into this trope again.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* AuthorsSavingThrow: The DiabolusExMachina of the Snow Queen's curse coming back on Marian, forcing her (and Robin and Roland) to leave Storybrooke, now makes perfect sense when knowing she was actually a villain in disguise and surely made it happen to hurt Regina. On a larger level, having Zelena still be alive, to make her defeat less anticlimactic, show what a true MagnificentBitch she is, and even explain to some degree why Gold made the plunge back into villainy.
* HarsherInHindsight: Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing it.
* HarsherInHindsight: Everything Marian told Regina about supporting Robin's love for her turned out to be a cruel trick to build up Regina's hope before squashing it.
