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** ''Super Babylon'' mocks superhero outfits as impractical, getting them killed when they went into combat, but it occurs in a story where they handed a defeat by Marshal Law whose outfit is equally impractical.

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** ''Super Babylon'' mocks superhero outfits as impractical, getting them killed when they went into combat, but it occurs in a story where they are handed a defeat by Marshal Law whose outfit is equally impractical.
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** The crux of the comic is that superheroes are bad, nowhere as heroic as real heroes, and promote the idea that violence is the best option. The titular protagonist isn't exempt from this, when called out for how his actions inspire people to acts of just the characters he fights against, he doesn't deny. The problem is what while the comic criticizes superheroes for resorting to violence, some of the "real heroes" it praises are soldiers who fought in war, ie, people who took part in horrific acts of violence.

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** The crux of the comic is that superheroes are bad, nowhere as heroic as real heroes, and promote the idea that violence is the best option. The titular protagonist isn't exempt from this, when called out for how his actions inspire people to acts of violence just like the characters he fights against, he doesn't deny. The problem is what while the comic criticizes superheroes for resorting to violence, some of the "real heroes" it praises are soldiers who fought in war, ie, people who took part in horrific acts of violence.
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*** It should be noted that earlier comics in the series, mostly the original and ''Takes Manhattan'', didn’t have this problem, as they took a ''much'' dimmer view of soldiers, the military, and police, seeing superheroes as an extension of their hypermasculine quasi-fascistic methods.

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*** It should be noted that earlier comics in the series, mostly the original and ''Takes Manhattan'', didn’t have this problem, as they took a ''much'' dimmer view of soldiers, the military, and police, seeing superheroes as an extension of their hypermasculine quasi-fascistic methods. methods, only for the later stories to break the aesop.
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*** Not helping is how the original ''Fear and Loathing'' has a strong anti-military stance by portraying it as a tool of oppression used by the government. Yet later stories portray the military as the "real heroes".
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*** Not helping is how the original ''Fear and Loathing'' has a strong anti-military stance by portraying it as a tool of oppression used by the government. Yet later stories portray the military as the "real heroes".
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* BrokenAesop: The arc ''Super Babylon'' satirizes Golden Age superheroes for their conservative attitudes and prejudices, but also constantly attacks them for their [[SexIsEvil supposed sexual perversion.]] It's rather hard to take accusations of dated attitudes seriously when the comic itself treats [[BondageIsBad bondage,]] [[DepravedHomosexual crossdressing, homosexuality]], nudism, and [[DisposableSexWorker prostitution]] as either punchlines or signs of moral decay. It's especially obvious when Law's old girlfriend (a strident feminist who gave cogent arguments against toxic masculinity) comes back evil, which is shown by having her [[EvilCostumeSwitch dress in a skimpy outfit and get in a relationship with another guy.]]
** The crux of the comic is that superheroes are bad, nowhere as heroic as real heroes, and promote the idea that violence is the best option. The titular protagonist isn't exempt from this, when called out for how his actions inspire people to acts of just the characters he fights against, he doesn't deny. The problem is what while the comic criticizes superheroes for resorting to violence, some of the "real heroes" it praises are soldiers who fought in war, ie, people who took part in horrific acts of violence.
*** It should be noted that earlier comics in the series, mostly the original and ''Takes Manhattan'', didn’t have this problem, as they took a ''much'' dimmer view of soldiers, the military, and police, seeing superheroes as an extension of their hypermasculine quasi-fascistic methods.
** ''Super Babylon'' mocks superhero outfits as impractical, getting them killed when they went into combat, but it occurs in a story where they handed a defeat by Marshal Law whose outfit is equally impractical.
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** The Jesus Society of America are a pastiche of Golden Age heroes who based on their name are overtly Christian. No such heroes with those traits [[DeadUnicornTrope existed in comics]]. In fact, the most notable case in superhero comics of a group who were religious fundamentalists were the [[Franchise/XMen Purifiers]], who were ''villains''. Additionally, a lot of the most famous comic creators of the Gold and Silver Ages ''were Jewish''.

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** The Jesus Society of America are a pastiche of Golden Age heroes who based on their name are overtly Christian. No such heroes with those traits [[DeadUnicornTrope existed in comics]]. In fact, the most notable case in superhero comics of a group who were religious fundamentalists were the [[Franchise/XMen [[ComicBook/XMen Purifiers]], who were ''villains''. Additionally, a lot of the most famous comic creators of the Gold and Silver Ages ''were Jewish''.
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** The comic's criticism of characters Golden and Silver Age comic characters ring hollow and demonstrates the writer is mostly projecting his own values. The DeliberateValuesDissonance treats the characters as though the characters' values were never updated as the times changed. Saying they only went after easy targets is just plain untrue as ComicBook/CaptainAmerica was created before America entered World War 2 was in fact a controversial character at the time. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheAdventuresOfSuperman Superman's radio show]] had him battling against the Ku Klux Klan back when the Klan was considered a respectable organization. Likewise it criticizing superheroes as being a disgrace to the "real heroes" of World War II ignores that Captain America's comics were actually very popular with American servicemen, and Creator/JackKirby, one of Captain America's creators, actually served in the war.

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** The comic's criticism of characters Golden and Silver Age comic characters ring hollow and demonstrates the writer is mostly projecting his own values. The DeliberateValuesDissonance treats the characters as though the characters' values were never updated as the times changed. Saying they only went after easy targets is just plain untrue as ComicBook/CaptainAmerica was created before America entered World War 2 and was in fact a controversial character at the time. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheAdventuresOfSuperman Superman's radio show]] had him battling against the Ku Klux Klan back when the Klan was considered a respectable organization. Likewise it criticizing superheroes as being a disgrace to the "real heroes" of World War II ignores that Captain America's comics were actually very popular with American servicemen, and Creator/JackKirby, one of Captain America's creators, actually served in the war.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Is Marshal Law really a JerkWithAHeartOfJerk, or a man still struggling to be the superhero he dreams himself to be, despite his obvious PTSD and other glaring, self-acknowledged emotional flaws?

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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Is Marshal Law really a JerkWithAHeartOfJerk, or a man still struggling to be the superhero he dreams himself to be, despite his obvious PTSD and other glaring, self-acknowledged emotional flaws?flaws? And is the world we're seeing truly that terrible or is it merely his [[ThroughTheEyesOfMadness warped perception]] of it, fuelled by his [[PowerOfHate hatred]] of superheroes?
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* SpiritualSuccessor:
** It can be seen as one for Creator/HarveyKurtzman's ''Superduperman'', his MAD magazine spoof. Like Kurtzman, Mills ''hates'' superheroes and heaps scorn on it, and where Kurztman made fun of classic heroes for being pathetic adolescent fantasies, Mills updates it in general to all other superheroes that came since TheFifties, including vigilantes, revisionist heroes and teenage heroes.
** ''Marshal Law'' can also be seen as one for Ben Edlund's ''ComicBook/TheTick'', since both are satirical parodies of the superhero genre featuring caricatures of well-known Marvel and DC superheroes. However unlike ''The Tick'', which is more of a silly and light-hearted spoof of said genre for kids, ''Marshal Law'' is a dark and cynical parody of the genre for adults.
** Creator/GarthEnnis' ''ComicBook/TheBoys'' is one for ''Marshal Law''. Where Mills played his superhero satire for laughs, Ennis plays it, generally for drama with characters like the Butcher and Hughie being more than the caricatures like Joe Gilmore, and tackling the corporate structure behind superhero stories and fandoms.
** It has also gained a SpiritualAntithesis in the form of ''Manga/MyHeroAcademia'' with direct comparisons between BigBad Shigaraki, our DesignatedHero Marshal Law and the very similar art style.
** ''Marshal Law'' also borrows a lot of inspiration from ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'' (Pat Mills and Ken O'Neill even helped create some comic strips for Judge Dredd) to the point where the series was even originally going to be a flat out copy of Judge Dredd.
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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.

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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" myself)". Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.

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i... do not see this as shallow parody, so much as claiming that superheroes are ultimately a solution looking for a problem


** The comic's satire depicts superheroes as a bad thing by intentionally constructing a world to not need them. Superheroes are depicted as a bad thing, in a world where the kinds of threats that would justify their existence don't exist, with some of the heroes' exploits in universe turning out to be fabrications.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} appreciating their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys exploring the corporate mindset behind their popularity]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.

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* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by simple hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} appreciating their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys exploring the corporate mindset behind their popularity]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.
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None


** The Jesus Society of America are a pastiche of Golden Age heroes who based on their name are overtly Christian. No such heroes with those traits [[DeadUnicornTrope existed in comics]]. In fact, the most notable case in superhero comics of a group who were religious fundamentalists were the [[Franchise/XMen Purifiers]], who were ''villains''.

to:

** The Jesus Society of America are a pastiche of Golden Age heroes who based on their name are overtly Christian. No such heroes with those traits [[DeadUnicornTrope existed in comics]]. In fact, the most notable case in superhero comics of a group who were religious fundamentalists were the [[Franchise/XMen Purifiers]], who were ''villains''. Additionally, a lot of the most famous comic creators of the Gold and Silver Ages ''were Jewish''.
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* HilariousInHindsight: "Kingdom of the Blind" has the BatmanParody Private Eye's origin include the twist of Private Eye arranging his own parents' murder with the assistance of his butler. This is similar to the origin of Batman's Crime Syndicate counterpart Owlman as established in ''ComicBook/ForeverEvil2013''.
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Is Marshal Law really a JerkWithAHeartOfJerk, or a man still struggling to be the superhero he dreams himself to be, despite his obvious PTSD and other glaring, self-acknowledged emotional flaws?

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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Is Marshal Law really a JerkWithAHeartOfJerk, or a man still struggling to be the superhero he dreams himself to be, despite his obvious PTSD and other glaring, self-acknowledged emotional flaws?
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* DesignatedVillain: The superheroes in ''[[Franchise/{{Hellraiser}} Pinhead]] Vs Marshall Law'' don't do anything evil and actually try to stop the threat of Pinhead and the Cenobites. But because they are a seen as a disgrace to the "real heroes" who fought in war ([[BrokenAesop which is in of itself the comic contradicting its earlier message about how the army was a tool of a fascist state]]) the comic decides that they all deserve to be tortured forever in Hell while Marshall Law gets to go free.
* FetishRetardant: The comics are filled with sexual imagery, but the exaggerated art style makes the characters look grotesque and ridiculous and there is a lot of rape and abuse. Then again, this likely intentional, given the satirical nature of the comic.

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* DesignatedVillain: The We're just supposed to take it for granted that the superheroes in ''[[Franchise/{{Hellraiser}} Pinhead]] Vs Marshall Law'' are the same hypocritical perverts as the rest, but they don't do anything evil evil, demonstrate self-sacrifice and bravery, and actually try to stop the threat of Pinhead and the Cenobites. Cenobites (and are even trying to rescue Law). But because they are a seen as a disgrace to the "real heroes" who fought in war ([[BrokenAesop which is in of itself the comic contradicting its earlier message about how the army was a tool of a fascist state]]) the comic decides that they all deserve to be tortured forever in Hell while Marshall Law not only gets to go free.
scot-free, he also takes a known serial killer with him as an ally in his campaign against the heroes. [[IgnoredEpiphany Law never has any epiphanies about his experience]], and practically brags about how much he loves hating superheroes. All in all, everyone involved - perhaps even Law himself - would've been better off leaving him in Hell to rot.
* FetishRetardant: The comics are filled with sexual imagery, but the exaggerated art style makes the characters look grotesque and ridiculous and there is a lot of rape and abuse. Then again, this is likely intentional, given the satirical nature of the comic.
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* {{Narm}}: Marshal Law criticizing the superheroes as a disgrace to the real heroes who fought against the Nazis is hard to take seriously when he [[PuttingOnTheReich dresses pretty damn fash himself]].

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* {{Narm}}: Marshal Law criticizing the superheroes as a disgrace to the real heroes who fought against the Nazis is hard to take seriously when he [[PuttingOnTheReich dresses pretty damn fash himself]]. Of course, if you ask the creators, that was exactly the point.
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* DesignatedVillain: The superheroes in ''[[Franchise/{{Hellraiser}} Pinhead]] Vs Marshall Law'' don't do anything evil and actually try to stop the threat of Pinhead and the Cenobites. But because they are a seen as a disgrace to the "real heroes" who fought in war ([[BrokenAesop which is in of itself the comic contradicting its earlier message about how the army was a tool a fascist state]]) the comic decides that they all deserve to be tortured forever in Hell while Marshall Law gets to go free.

to:

* DesignatedVillain: The superheroes in ''[[Franchise/{{Hellraiser}} Pinhead]] Vs Marshall Law'' don't do anything evil and actually try to stop the threat of Pinhead and the Cenobites. But because they are a seen as a disgrace to the "real heroes" who fought in war ([[BrokenAesop which is in of itself the comic contradicting its earlier message about how the army was a tool of a fascist state]]) the comic decides that they all deserve to be tortured forever in Hell while Marshall Law gets to go free.
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Not YMMV.


* SelfDeprecation: There seem to be some elements of this in ''Takes Manhattan'' and ''The Kingdom of the Blind'', as they feature vicious parodies of The Punisher and Batman respectively. These two happen to be the only mainstream superheroes Pat Mills has ever mentioned in a positive light, and indeed he has written for both of them-- ''after'' skewering them in ''Marshal Law'', no less.

Added: 619

Removed: 619

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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.


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* TooBleakStoppedCaring: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.

Added: 938

Changed: 957

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* FanDisservice: The comics are filled with sexual imagery, but the exaggerated art style makes the characters look grotesque and ridiculous and there is a lot of rape and abuse. Then again, this likely intentional, given the satirical nature of the comic.

to:

* FanDisservice: FetishRetardant: The comics are filled with sexual imagery, but the exaggerated art style makes the characters look grotesque and ridiculous and there is a lot of rape and abuse. Then again, this likely intentional, given the satirical nature of the comic.



* ShallowParody: The comic's criticism of characters Golden and Silver Age comic characters ring hollow and demonstrates the writer is mostly projecting his own values. The DeliberateValuesDissonance treats the characters as though the characters' values were never updated as the times changed. Saying they only went after easy targets is just plain untrue as ComicBook/CaptainAmerica was created before America entered World War 2 was in fact a controversial character at the time. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheAdventuresOfSuperman Superman's radio show]] had him battling against the Ku Klux Klan back when the Klan was considered a respectable organization. Likewise it criticizing superheroes as being a disgrace to the "real heroes" of World War II ignores that Captain America's comics were actually very popular with American servicemen, and Creator/JackKirby, one of Captain America's creators, actually served in the war.

to:

* ShallowParody: ShallowParody:
**
The comic's criticism of characters Golden and Silver Age comic characters ring hollow and demonstrates the writer is mostly projecting his own values. The DeliberateValuesDissonance treats the characters as though the characters' values were never updated as the times changed. Saying they only went after easy targets is just plain untrue as ComicBook/CaptainAmerica was created before America entered World War 2 was in fact a controversial character at the time. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Radio/TheAdventuresOfSuperman Superman's radio show]] had him battling against the Ku Klux Klan back when the Klan was considered a respectable organization. Likewise it criticizing superheroes as being a disgrace to the "real heroes" of World War II ignores that Captain America's comics were actually very popular with American servicemen, and Creator/JackKirby, one of Captain America's creators, actually served in the war.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} appreciating their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys exploring the corporate mindset behind the superhero genre]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} appreciating their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys exploring the corporate mindset behind the superhero genre]], their popularity]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.
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None


* {{Narm}}: Marshal Law criticizing the superheroes as a disgrace to the real heroes who fought against the Nazis is hard to take seriously when he [[PuttingOnTheReich dresses up a Nazi himself]].

to:

* {{Narm}}: Marshal Law criticizing the superheroes as a disgrace to the real heroes who fought against the Nazis is hard to take seriously when he [[PuttingOnTheReich dresses up a Nazi pretty damn fash himself]].
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* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.

to:

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: TooBleakStoppedCaring: You could probably replace the narration with "Everyone sucks but me! (And I'm not that great myself.)" Kevin O'Neill noted that one Batman writer felt offended by the series' piss-take of Batman in ''The Kingdom of the Blind'' noting that he and Pat Mills had parodied the character without putting anything in its place. O'Neill said that this was an IntendedAudienceReaction because to them the concept of TheHero was out of favor and there weren't any more stories to tell in that genre and Mills and O'Neill were frustrated that the genre's DeadHorseTrope keeps being recycled and updated.
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None


* SelfDeprecation: ''The Kingdom Of The Blind'' might have some elements of this, being a scathing Batman satire; Batman is the only "mainstream" superhero that Pat Mills has ever written for.

to:

* SelfDeprecation: There seem to be some elements of this in ''Takes Manhattan'' and ''The Kingdom Of of the Blind'', as they feature vicious parodies of The Blind'' might have some elements of this, being a scathing Punisher and Batman satire; Batman is respectively. These two happen to be the only "mainstream" superhero that mainstream superheroes Pat Mills has ever mentioned in a positive light, and indeed he has written for.for both of them-- ''after'' skewering them in ''Marshal Law'', no less.
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* SelfDeprecation: ''The Kingdom Of The Blind'' might have some elements of this, being a scathing Batman satire; Batman is the only "mainstream" superhero that Pat Mills has ever written for.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} an appreciation for their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys an analysis of the corporate mindset behind the superhero genre]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} an appreciation for appreciating their virtues and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys an analysis of exploring the corporate mindset behind the superhero genre]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven by hatred for superhero comics rather than, in Alan Moore's case, a sophisticated appreciation for its virtues in his past with slight nostalgia added on top, its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: Since the series is driven purely by hatred for superhero comics rather than, in Alan Moore's case, a sophisticated than [[ComicBook/{{Watchmen}} an appreciation for its their virtues in his past with slight nostalgia added on top, and flaws]] or [[ComicBook/TheBoys an analysis of the corporate mindset behind the superhero genre]], its repeated hitting on the same "Superheroes suck" concept can be tiresome after a while.

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