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Removing unnecessary comment
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%%please don't cutlist this page, since it will be locked, and not all editors know about the Forum%%
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I was here to dewick Unfortunate Implications, but neither of these Broken Base examples count. The first one only explains the opposed side (plus the author's view), and the second one is fans vs. non-fans rather than a debate between fans.
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* BrokenBase:
** The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. (Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.) Or as the turning point where clean furry-themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of its first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Year's Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
** The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. (Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.) Or as the turning point where clean furry-themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of its first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Year's Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
to:
* BrokenBase:
FairForItsDay:
**The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. (Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.) Or as the turning point where clean furry-themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of its first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Year's Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* FairForItsDay:Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
**
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. (Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.) Or as the turning point where clean furry-themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of its first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Year's Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* FairForItsDay:
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None
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* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
to:
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
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None
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!!YMMV tropes in this comic include:
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None
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** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and/or sexual encounters (and often, implied attraction) outside of their respective label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
to:
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and/or sexual encounters (and often, implied attraction) outside of their respective label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well were less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and/or sexual encounters (and often, implied attraction) outside of that label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
to:
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and/or sexual encounters (and often, implied attraction) outside of that their respective label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
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None
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** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and sexual encounters outside of that label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
to:
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and and/or sexual encounters (and often, implied attraction) outside of that label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
to:
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.it.
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and sexual encounters outside of that label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
** Every character in the comics is categorised as either straight or gay, even when they have had relationships and sexual encounters outside of that label. How much of that is simplification for the sake of the story, how much it's acknowledgement that people can have sex outside their sexual preference, and how much is good ol' bi erasure is debatable. Bisexual people well less visible in popular culture back when the comics were published (and that's saying something, as bi characters are still not exactly omnipresent).
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None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there. Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
to:
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because (Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there. there.) Or as the turning point where clean furry themed furry-themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's its first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Year's Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
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The division regarding how ASB is viewed more properly fits under Broken Base anyway
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
to:
* BrokenBase: BrokenBase:
** The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly inmind.mind.
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there. Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
** The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in
** In the furry community, people tend to see ASB ''as a whole'' either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays. And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there. Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 6,8 (click to see context) :
* LoveItOrHateIt: In the furry community, people tend to see ASB either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* BaseBreaker: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
to:
* BaseBreaker: BrokenBase: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
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Perhaps this will work as a compromise? The entries also fit the tropes better IMO
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%%please don't cutlist this page, since it will be locked, and not all editors know about the Forum%%
to:
%%please don't cutlist this page, since it will be locked, and not all editors know about the Forum%%Forum%%
* BaseBreaker: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
* LoveItOrHateIt: In the furry community, people tend to see ASB either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
* BaseBreaker: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was quite clearly a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
* LoveItOrHateIt: In the furry community, people tend to see ASB either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation, aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* SeinfeldIsUnfunny[=/=]FairForItsDay: Setting aside all the above debate, and whether or not including promiscuity in a comic purporting to be displaying realistic gay lifestyle in a way to encourage acceptance is counterproductive, many of the comic's detractors have come to it many years after its initial publication--and having already been exposed to the other furry or gay-themed comics which came later and were less about porn, more nuanced, in a number of cases better written, and certainly less predictable and cliche, they tend to view ASB as not living up to the hype. What is forgotten is that, however flawed the final product might be, it was a product of its time, and ''groundbreaking'' for its time. Stereotyped or not, unrealistically (or counterintuitively) promiscuous or not, it enabled and set the stage for everything which came after. Despite its flaws, this should be remembered--even if the standard it set was one which has long since been surpassed (and thankfully so), it still set it.
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!!YMMV tropes in this comic include:
to:
!!YMMV tropes in this comic include:include:
%%please don't cutlist this page, since it will be locked, and not all editors know about the Forum%%
%%please don't cutlist this page, since it will be locked, and not all editors know about the Forum%%
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* YourMileageMayVary: In the furry community, people tend to see ASB either as a groundbreaking series about homosexuality that seriously examines issues in the gay community, or simply as porn trying to disguise itself as a soap opera that only perpetuates stereotypes about gays.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
to:
** And occasionally as a combination of a cute little story with porn. Because really, there's not enough porn with plot out there.
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
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Removing Darth Wiki stuff. It doesn\'t go on pages outside of DW. Please do not add them back.
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* [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck Dethroning Moment Of Suck]]: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was just a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
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** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
to:
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.comic.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
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It\'s not flamebait, it\'s a widely stated opinion among many of the comic\'s readers. And we have much less respectful DMOS examples at other YMMW\'s pages.
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* [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck Dethroning Moment Of Suck]]: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was just a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.
to:
** Or as the turning point where clean furry themed collections such as Furrlough, Critters, and the like had absolutely no chance to make it... Look at Heathen City vs Circles, which sold more of it's first issue, the Picaresque with gay sex, or the Slice of Life Bildungsroman which took 8 issues to even have something resembling porn? Hint: [[spoiler: You almost never see Circles at a Furry Convention]]. Or a good work when you cut out the obvious FanService Bits (New Years Party, anything aside from Marcus and Daniel NOT in a sexual situation (aside from maybe the first time) but which still holds up to the previous where because SexSells everyone and their brother has to have it in a successful furry comic.comic.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
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The flamebait banner overrides the YMMV banner, despite being below it. deleting.
Deleted line(s) 1 (click to see context) :
* [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck Dethroning Moment Of Suck]]: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was just a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
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Removing Wall Banger wick
Deleted line(s) 2,3 (click to see context) :
* [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
** Point. Though it seems likely that Mr. King was objecting to more than just the promiscuity, since he thought [[SexIsEvil any gay sex]] ''at all'' was [[{{Squick}} sick and perverted]] and that [[TheFundamentalist gays were going to Hell]]. And I wouldn't call Mr. King a StrawmanPolitical, since people like him ''do'' sadly exist.
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* DethroningMomentOfSuck: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was just a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
* WallBanger: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
* WallBanger: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
to:
* DethroningMomentOfSuck: [[DarthWiki/DethroningMomentOfSuck Dethroning Moment Of Suck]]: The New Year's Eve Dorm Orgy in the 5th issue. It seems that every New Year's Eve, the gays at Leland organize a large orgy at Daniel's dorm, inviting gays from all over campus for a night of drinking and wild sex, which Daniel happily joins into after some uncertainty. The story, which was just a blatant excuse for some {{Fanservice}}, turned many readers off the comic with its [[UnfortunateImplications unfortunate]] [[AllGaysArePromiscuous implications]], and is considered by its detractors to be the worst story in ASB. The writer [[HandWave Hand Waved]] this by lampshading the usage of STDImmunity in the comic--basically, that in a world where sexually transmitted diseases do not exist, unprotected gay sex would be perfectly safe--thus making it okay to indulge in AuthorAppeal. The scene still comes off as rather tasteless (if amusingly ridiculous). Best read with the MST3KMantra firmly in mind.
*WallBanger: [[DarthWiki/WallBanger Wall Banger]]: Daniel's father is supposed to be a [[StrawmanPolitical homophobe]] because he doesn't want his son living with a bunch of [[AllGaysArePromiscuous horny gay guys who do nothing but screw]]. Marcus boldly denounces this as biased nonsense... [[BrokenAesop never mind that random and unprotected sex is all the main characters seem to ever do]].
*
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* CrowningMomentOfAwesome: Marcus beating the crap out of a bunch of homophobic bullies who tried to hurt Daniel. And then his and Ricky's lashing out at Nigel for his heterophobic insults at Steven afterwards.
** You also forgot Tiny "talking" with his team mates.
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Daniel's talk with the sympathetic priest in issue 6 who helps him patch up his broken relationship with his father is very moving and heartwarming. As is the end [[spoiler: when his father, even though he still disapproves of his son's sexuality, pays for Marcus's college tuition so that he and Daniel can continue to be together.]]
** I'd also add Ricky's speech in the final issue, if you ignore what he does at the end of it.
** And as proof that even low points can have highs (see DethroningMomentOfSuck below), the moment during the New Year's party when David shows what is really BeneathTheMask, calling his [[JerkassFacade macho facade]] "bullshit", showing he cares about Daniel, and encouraging him to not feel so left out. He even gives him a hug!
** You also forgot Tiny "talking" with his team mates.
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: Daniel's talk with the sympathetic priest in issue 6 who helps him patch up his broken relationship with his father is very moving and heartwarming. As is the end [[spoiler: when his father, even though he still disapproves of his son's sexuality, pays for Marcus's college tuition so that he and Daniel can continue to be together.]]
** I'd also add Ricky's speech in the final issue, if you ignore what he does at the end of it.
** And as proof that even low points can have highs (see DethroningMomentOfSuck below), the moment during the New Year's party when David shows what is really BeneathTheMask, calling his [[JerkassFacade macho facade]] "bullshit", showing he cares about Daniel, and encouraging him to not feel so left out. He even gives him a hug!
