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* ADayInTheLimelight: Jaroks, the player who bore the brunt of most of Storm Surge, [=SalC1=] and The Horizon’s shenanigans with Dunshire during the Complex Gaming saga, happened to be recording his own series for YouTube at the time, and captured most of their efforts from a different angle. He also joined Storm to deliver the news to the server’s Discord that Mojang had banned their server for breaking the terms of service.

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* ADayInTheLimelight: Jaroks, the player who bore the brunt of most of Storm Surge, [=SalC1=] and The Horizon’s shenanigans with Dunshire during the Complex Gaming saga, happened to be recording his own series for YouTube [=YouTube=] at the time, and captured most of their efforts from a different angle. He also joined Storm to deliver the news to the server’s Discord that Mojang had banned their server for breaking the terms of service.
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* RetiredMonster: The entire team for ''Minecraft'', as ''Minecraft'' servers have become robust enough in their protection that griefing is either not fun or downright impossible.

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* RetiredMonster: The entire team for ''Minecraft'', as ''Minecraft'' servers have become robust enough in their protection that griefing is either not fun or downright impossible. That said, ''no'' amount of protection can stop Storm Surge from hitting people with SocialEngineering.
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* BoringButPractical: Storm Surge himself notes in a conversation with Doridian that the most effective way to stop griefing is to set up a Whitelist, as it requires a lot of time and energy to get to a server using it and getting banned from a server using it could end up devastating (since you couldn't just hop onto another random account to get back into the action until you got bored).

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Resorting this entry back into alphabetical order, as per the "ignore articles at the beginning of titles" rule in How To Alphabetize Things page.


* ADayInTheLimelight: Jaroks, the player who bore the brunt of most of Storm Surge, [=SalC1=] and The Horizon’s shenanigans with Dunshire during the Complex Gaming saga, happened to be recording his own series for YouTube at the time, and captured most of their efforts from a different angle. He also joined Storm to deliver the news to the server’s Discord that Mojang had banned their server for breaking the terms of service.


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* ADayInTheLimelight: Jaroks, the player who bore the brunt of most of Storm Surge, [=SalC1=] and The Horizon’s shenanigans with Dunshire during the Complex Gaming saga, happened to be recording his own series for YouTube at the time, and captured most of their efforts from a different angle. He also joined Storm to deliver the news to the server’s Discord that Mojang had banned their server for breaking the terms of service.
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Added DiffLines:

* ADayInTheLimelight: Jaroks, the player who bore the brunt of most of Storm Surge, [=SalC1=] and The Horizon’s shenanigans with Dunshire during the Complex Gaming saga, happened to be recording his own series for YouTube at the time, and captured most of their efforts from a different angle. He also joined Storm to deliver the news to the server’s Discord that Mojang had banned their server for breaking the terms of service.
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* CoolBoat: They love to 'steal' other users' boats and leave behind humorous messages about how they won't return the boat.

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* CoolBoat: They love to 'steal' other users' boats (by completely erasing or otherwise destroying them to the point where it looks like there was never a boat there) and leave behind humorous messages about how they won't return the boat.
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* BegoneBribe: In the Complex series, one of the team members distracts one of the targeted players by trying to build a cone, and then kicking up a great big fuss about it when the said player claims the area to make him stop doing it. The guy eventually offers the team member a million sever currency to make him go away.

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* BegoneBribe: In the Complex series, one of the team members distracts one of the targeted players by trying to build a cone, cone right next to his town, and then kicking up a great big fuss about it when the said player claims the area to make him stop doing it. The guy eventually offers the team member a million sever currency server credit to make him go away.
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* BegoneBribe: In the Complex series, one of the team members distracts one of the targeted players by trying to build a cone, and then kicking up a great big fuss about it when the said player claims the area to make him stop doing it. The guy eventually offers the team member a million sever currency to make him go away.
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* SocialEngineering:

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* SocialEngineering: Everyone on the team uses it to some extent, but it's Storm's weapon of choice.
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Edited page since aVo are doing videos again - or at least Storm is.


[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They spread to other games in later on, such as ''VideoGame/DayZ'' and ''VideoGame/{{Rust}}''. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.

to:

[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They spread to other games in later on, such as ''VideoGame/DayZ'' and ''VideoGame/{{Rust}}''. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The While most of aVo’s members are inactive, Storm Surge continues to post videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.
with guests.
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[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) was a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They spread to other games in later on, such as ''VideoGame/DayZ'' and ''VideoGame/{{Rust}}''. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.

to:

[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) was is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They spread to other games in later on, such as ''VideoGame/DayZ'' and ''VideoGame/{{Rust}}''. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.
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* BullyingADragon: Happens a lot. Everybody seems perfectly happy to antagonize the team of griefers that has repeatedly gotten around every security measure they run across. Rice-Think ''especially'' ran into this problem, since they attacked the team and then ''didn't'' add any protections to their own server.


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* SarcasmFailure: The team's general reaction to the [[TooDumbToLive Rice-Think server.]]
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* VillainProtagonist: Nothing they do can objectively be construed as constructive behavior, but that doesn't stop them from having over 200,000 subscribers at their height, and slightly less that when their content slowed down.

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* VillainProtagonist: Nothing they do can objectively be construed as constructive behavior, but that doesn't stop them from having over 200,000 subscribers at their height, height (at a time where that was incredibly popular), and slightly less that when their content slowed down.

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Please do not add multiple tropes with a slash, as per the How To Write An Example guidelines.


** A series of their Minecraft videos deal with what amounts to a internet war with Reddit. Team Avolition destroyed a specific server hosted by Reddit and posted their footage on Youtube. People from Reddit found out and tried, among other things, a Denial of Service attack and trying to ban Team Avolition from their Minecraft servers using a global list of forbidden players. The Team responded by banning every single admin and moderator [[HoistByHisOwnPetard by using Reddit's global list]]. Needless to say, neither side has forgiven the other.
*** Surprisingly, Doridian (The person who made the system they used, who was also banned, and had his server griefed by them before) actually became friends with them later.

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** A series of their Minecraft videos deal with what amounts to a internet war with Reddit. a Website/{{Reddit}} community. Team Avolition destroyed a specific server hosted by Reddit and posted their the resulting footage on Youtube. People from Reddit that community found out and tried, among other things, a Distributed Denial of Service attack and trying tried to ban Team Avolition from their Minecraft ''Minecraft'' servers using a global list of forbidden players. The Team responded by banning every single admin and moderator [[HoistByHisOwnPetard by using Reddit's that same global list]].list]] due to its shoddy programming. Needless to say, neither side has forgiven the other.
*** Surprisingly, Doridian (The (the person who made the system they used, who was also banned, and had his server griefed by them before) actually became friends with them later.



* BreakTheHaughty: Occasionally they will unleash their destructive ways upon a server who's admins have gone DrunkWithPower. This is more often than not the outcome.



* BreakTheHaughty: Occasionally they will unleash their destructive ways upon a server whose admins have gone DrunkWithPower. This is more often than not the outcome.



* DirtyOldMan: Well, not necessarily old, but the target of one of their Minecraft HG griefing videos is a guy who, on one server daily, asked in the chat if any girls online could send him nudies.

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* DirtyOldMan: Well, not necessarily old, but the target of one of their Minecraft ''Minecraft'' HG griefing videos is a guy who, on one server daily, asked in the chat if any girls online could send him nudies.



* EarlyInstallmentWeirdness: Nonexistent or basic modded clients, relatively primitive griefing methods (pouring lava down Dell's house is juvenile compared to some of their escapades later on), and a general lack of coordination that they became infamous for later on (although the Cobblecloud incident was fairly thought-out, if somewhat unsuccessful). Arguably justified, as their griefing methods had to adapt to the constantly evolving countermeasures against griefing itself.
* EurekaMoment: In "Reddit Episode 15: Diamonds", the team is screwing around on the top of a hill. When Storm_Surge is crafting diamond tools for everyone, Krysk playfully destroys the crafting table, sending the diamonds flying. Storm_Surge quickly re-pockets the diamond, only for them to duplicate for a split second. When he mentions this to the team, Krysk remembers that there was a duplication glitch for Minecraft, and modifies Reliant to allow the creation of infinite-stack blocks, which ends up being the primary griefing tactic for the video.

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* EarlyInstallmentWeirdness: Nonexistent When they first started, the Team only had nonexistent or basic modded clients, relatively primitive griefing methods (pouring lava down Dell's house is juvenile compared to some of their escapades later on), and a general lack of coordination that they became infamous for later on (although the Cobblecloud incident was fairly thought-out, if somewhat unsuccessful). Arguably justified, as their griefing methods had to adapt to the constantly evolving countermeasures against griefing itself.
* EurekaMoment: In "Reddit Episode 15: Diamonds", the team is screwing around on the top of a hill. When Storm_Surge is crafting diamond tools for everyone, Krysk playfully destroys the crafting table, sending the diamonds flying. Storm_Surge quickly re-pockets the diamond, only for them to duplicate for a split second. When he mentions this to the team, Krysk remembers that there was a duplication glitch for Minecraft, ''Minecraft'', and modifies their Reliant client program to allow the creation of infinite-stack blocks, which ends up being the primary griefing tactic for the video.



* ForTheEvulz[=/=]ItAmusedMe: The primary reason for griefing.

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* ForTheEvulz[=/=]ItAmusedMe: ForTheEvulz: The primary reason for griefing.



* GameMod: "Reliant", a modified Minecraft client at least partially of Krysk's work that allows the team {{Flight}}, XRayVision, SuperSpeed, and [[SuperSpeed Other]] [[StealthExpert Super]] [[PersonOfMassDestruction Powers.]] Reliant was specifically built for Avolition's griefing, with capes to identify their accounts.
* GoneHorriblyRight: Rice Think's system for detecting griefing used a system to tell if individual blocks had been tampered with. This meant that Team Avo simply ''wiped the structures from the face of the earth'' and got away with it.

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* GameMod: "Reliant", a modified Minecraft client at least partially of Krysk's work that allows the team {{Flight}}, XRayVision, SuperSpeed, and [[SuperSpeed Other]] [[StealthExpert Super]] [[PersonOfMassDestruction Powers.]] Reliant was specifically built for Avolition's griefing, with capes to identify their accounts.
accounts to each other.
* GoneHorriblyRight: Rice Think's system for detecting griefing used a system to tell if individual blocks had been tampered with. This meant that Team Avo simply ''wiped the structures from the face of the earth'' and got away with it.it, since the system didn't report if blocks had been removed entirely.



* HoistByHisOwnPetard: In one episode of their Spacemonkey griefing, one of them decides to turn the Admin complex into a monster spawning zone by removing all of the torches, [[https://youtu.be/I6nNo_usbNE?t=342 only to get attacked by a spider, and later a skeleton, on the way out.]] Later in the same episode, their usual trick of putting fences under stairs(which, in that version of minecraft, prevented the stairs from being climbed) [[https://youtu.be/I6nNo_usbNE?t=403 gets one of them stuck as a Creeper's approaching.]]
* KillItWithFire: Their plan for almost every griefing.
* NiceJobBreakingItHero: After stringing along the above DirtyOldMan, they have him believing they are a hot girl sending him pics - when one of the members' invisibility runs out. The others quickly turn him invisible again, but it's too late. The victim sees his name - [[spoiler: "Agent Harry"]] - and realizes they've been messing with him.

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* HoistByHisOwnPetard: In one episode of their Spacemonkey griefing, one of them decides to turn the Admin complex into a monster spawning zone by removing all of the torches, [[https://youtu.be/I6nNo_usbNE?t=342 only to get attacked by a spider, and later a skeleton, on the way out.]] Later in the same episode, their usual trick of putting fences under stairs(which, in that version of minecraft, ''Minecraft'', prevented the stairs from being climbed) [[https://youtu.be/I6nNo_usbNE?t=403 gets one of them stuck as a Creeper's approaching.]]
* KillItWithFire: Their backup plan for almost every griefing.
griefing is to just set everything on fire.
* NiceJobBreakingItHero: After stringing along the above DirtyOldMan, a perverted player, they have him believing they are a hot girl sending him pics - when one of the members' invisibility runs out. The others quickly turn him invisible again, but it's too late. The victim sees his name - [[spoiler: "Agent Harry"]] - and realizes they've been messing with him.



* RefugeInAudacity: At one point, they destroy a building, bury the remains, tell an admin they're planting trees, and have the admin ''help'' them. Look below at Unwitting Pawn to see why this qualifies.
* RetiredMonster: The entire team, as Minecraft servers have become robust enough in their protection that griefing is either not fun or downright impossible.

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* RefugeInAudacity: At one point, they destroy a building, bury the remains, tell an admin they're planting trees, and have the admin ''help'' them. Look below at Unwitting Pawn to see why this qualifies.
them... the same admin who ''built the building in the first place''.
* RetiredMonster: The entire team, team for ''Minecraft'', as Minecraft ''Minecraft'' servers have become robust enough in their protection that griefing is either not fun or downright impossible.



** [[FunnyBackgroundEvent Dell and another user on Spacemonkey recite Reznov's Vorkuta plot from]] VideoGame/CallOfDutyBlackOps.

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** [[FunnyBackgroundEvent Dell and another user on Spacemonkey recite Reznov's Vorkuta plot from]] VideoGame/CallOfDutyBlackOps.''VideoGame/CallOfDutyBlackOps''.



** Some users on Spacemonkey make sporadic VideoGame/TeamFortress2 references.

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** Some users on Spacemonkey make sporadic VideoGame/TeamFortress2 ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' references.



* SocialEngineering:
** Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.
** Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes. First, they demolished a castle. As they were trying to bury the remains, they received help from ''the player who built it.'' Second, Storm_Surge was destroying a gazebo. He was caught in the act by another player, so he pretended that he was "upgrading the floor." He asked the player if he could fetch some logs. After the new structure was built, the player helped Storm_Surge protect it.



* ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill: Any server with Big Brother requires that they do this; Big Brother records who modified which block last, so doing something like putting lava in a house would just get them banned. Their solution, therefore, is to utterly destroy any structure and remove any trace of its existence.

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* ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill: Any server with the Big Brother server addon requires that they do this; Big Brother records who modified which block last, so doing something like putting lava in a house would just get them banned. Their solution, therefore, is to utterly destroy any structure and remove any trace of its existence.



* UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering:
** Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.
** Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:
*** First, they demolished a castle. As they were trying to bury the remains, they received help from [[spoiler:''the player who built it.'']]
*** Second, Storm_Surge was destroying a gazebo. He was caught in the act by another player, so he pretended that he was "upgrading the floor." He asked the player if he could fetch some logs. After the new structure was built, the player helped Storm_Surge protect it.
* VillainProtagonist: Nothing they do can objectively be construed as constructive behavior, but that doesn't stop them from having over 200,000 subscribers.

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* UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering:
** Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.
** Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:
*** First, they demolished a castle. As they were trying to bury the remains, they received help from [[spoiler:''the player who built it.'']]
*** Second, Storm_Surge was destroying a gazebo. He was caught in the act by another player, so he pretended that he was "upgrading the floor." He asked the player if he could fetch some logs. After the new structure was built, the player helped Storm_Surge protect it.
* VillainProtagonist: Nothing they do can objectively be construed as constructive behavior, but that doesn't stop them from having over 200,000 subscribers.subscribers at their height, and slightly less that when their content slowed down.
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Removing "recent", since Examples Are Not Recent.


[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They have spread to other games in recent years, such as VideoGame/DayZ and VideoGame/{{Rust}}. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.

to:

[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is was a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They have spread to other games in recent years, later on, such as VideoGame/DayZ ''VideoGame/DayZ'' and VideoGame/{{Rust}}.''VideoGame/{{Rust}}''. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.
Tabs MOD

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* {{Troll}}: [[CaptainObvious Naturally.]]

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* {{Troll}}: [[CaptainObvious Naturally.]]
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** ''Storm'' had one episodes prior, when Sugarfree accused him of burning down the treefort.
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* RetiredMonster: The entire team, as Minecraft servers have become robust enough in their protection that griefing is either not fun or downright impossible.
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* GameMod: "Reliant", a modified Minecraft client at least partially of Krysk's work that allows the team {{Flight}}, XRayVision, SuperSpeed, and [[SuperSpeed Other]] [[StealthExpert Super]] [[PersonOfMassDestruction Powers.]] Reliant was specifically built for Avolition's griefing, with capes to identify their accounts.
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* Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.

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* ** Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.

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* UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering: Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:
** First, they demolished a castle. As they were trying to bury the remains, they received help from [[spoiler:''the player who built it.'']]
** Second, Storm_Surge was destroying a gazebo. He was caught in the act by another player, so he pretended that he was "upgrading the floor." He asked the player if he could fetch some logs. After the new structure was built, the player helped Storm_Surge protect it.

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* UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering: UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering:
* Early on in the Spacemonkey saga; The players voted to make Storm a moderator because he worked to repair the tower that they just griefed.
**
Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:
** *** First, they demolished a castle. As they were trying to bury the remains, they received help from [[spoiler:''the player who built it.'']]
** *** Second, Storm_Surge was destroying a gazebo. He was caught in the act by another player, so he pretended that he was "upgrading the floor." He asked the player if he could fetch some logs. After the new structure was built, the player helped Storm_Surge protect it.

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[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They have spread to other games in recent years, such as VideoGame/DayZ and VideoGame/{{Rust}}. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]]

to:

[[https://www.youtube.com/user/teamavolition?feature=watch Team Avolition]] (often stylized as aVo) is a ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}'' griefing team that popularized putting videos of griefing on Website/YouTube. They have spread to other games in recent years, such as VideoGame/DayZ and VideoGame/{{Rust}}. Team Avolition's endeavors are highly controversial, with detractors labeling the team as a bane on gaming in general, or fans that claim their actions are hilarious. [[ForTheEvulz The group just enjoys what they do.]]
]] The videos are currently on indefinite hiatus.



* EarlyInstallmentWeirdness: Nonexistent or basic modded clients, relatively primitive griefing methods (pouring lava down Dell's house is juvenile compared to some of their escapades later on), and a general lack of coordination that they became infamous for later on (although the Cobblecloud incident was fairly thought-out, if somewhat unsuccessful). Arguably justified, as their griefing methods had to adapt to the constantly evolving countermeasures against griefing itself.
* EurekaMoment: In "Reddit Episode 15: Diamonds", the team is screwing around on the top of a hill. When Storm_Surge is crafting diamond tools for everyone, Krysk playfully destroys the crafting table, sending the diamonds flying. Storm_Surge quickly re-pockets the diamond, only for them to duplicate for a split second. When he mentions this to the team, Krysk remembers that there was a duplication glitch for Minecraft, and modifies Reliant to allow the creation of infinite-stack blocks, which ends up being the primary griefing tactic for the video.



* FailedASpotCheck: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-JOBN3n6fs&t=1m57s This moment]] from 'Reddit Episode 14: Jericho' feels like something out of a stealth video game.



* {{Flight}}: Their Reliant client allows them to fly around.
* ForTheEvulz[=/=]ItAmusedMe: The primary reason for griefing.



* EarlyInstallmentWeirdness: Nonexistent or basic modded clients, relatively primitive griefing methods (pouring lava down Dell's house is juvenile compared to some of their escapades later on), and a general lack of coordination that they became infamous for later on (although the Cobblecloud incident was fairly thought-out, if somewhat unsuccessful). Arguably justified, as their griefing methods had to adapt to the constantly evolving countermeasures against griefing itself.
* ForTheEvulz[=/=]ItAmusedMe: The primary reason for griefing.
* {{Flight}}: Their Reliant client allows them to fly around.
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->'''RelocationAgent:''' We're awful people.

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->'''RelocationAgent:''' ->'''[=RelocationAgent=]:''' We're awful people.
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Whoops, misidentified someone.


->'''Jade:''' We're awful people.

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->'''Jade:''' ->'''RelocationAgent:''' We're awful people.

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->'''Jade:''' We're bad people.
->'''Krysk:'''

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->'''Jade:''' We're bad awful people.
->'''Krysk:'''->'''Krysk:''' No; we're ''amusing'' people.
----
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----

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--------
->'''Jade:''' We're bad people.
->'''Krysk:'''
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* CallingCard: They will change many signs to let you know Team Avolition was there. They also make 'swastistars' -- [[CrossesTheLineTwice a swastika inside a Star of David.]]

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* CallingCard: They will change many signs to let you know Team Avolition was there. They also make 'swastistars' 'swastars' -- [[CrossesTheLineTwice a swastika inside a Star of David.]]
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Added comment under X Ray Vision

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** Jade Vision wasn't "made" by Jade; all of Reliant's features (at least in the early stages) were programmed by Krysk. Jade Vision was named after Jade because of his uncanny ability to find hidden chests and other valuables on servers.

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A few less bytes.


* UnwittingPawn: Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:

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* UnwittingPawn: UnwittingPawn[=/=]SocialEngineering: Twice during the "Rice Think" episodes:



** Griefers call this sort of thing [[FanNickname Social]] [[SocialEngineering Engineering.]]
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* BreakTheHaughty: Occasionally they will unleash their destructive ways upon a server who's admins have gone DrunkWithPower. This is more often than not the outcome.

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