Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
Gunnar says Thor’s body was “a bottle for extremely poor weather, and his will makes a poor stopper.” This might just be a result of having a different view of the gods than Atticus espouses, but it seems like a unique description. Perhaps Thor saw the Tuatha De Danann with their godhood ''and'' their Druidic magic, and decided he wanted something similar. Or he otherwise just wanted more power. Whatever the inspiration, Thor probably ate storm spirits or something, not unlike how Nebweneff ate the Saharra elemental. Since he was a god, he was able to handle the power boost, but there were side effects, like making him more of a Jerkass sometimes. It would also explain why he is the strongest Thor around. It’s also not an excuse for his actions, because he probably could have disgorged the power if he cared enough to.
to:
Gunnar says Thor’s body was “a bottle for extremely poor weather, and his will makes a poor stopper.” This might just be a result of having a different view of the gods than Atticus espouses, but it seems like a unique description. Perhaps Thor saw the Tuatha De Danann with their godhood ''and'' their Druidic magic, and decided he wanted something similar. Or he otherwise just wanted more power. Whatever the inspiration, Thor probably ate storm spirits or something, not unlike how Nebweneff ate the Saharra elemental. Since he was a god, he was able to handle the power boost, but there were side effects, like making him more of a Jerkass sometimes. It would also explain why he is the strongest Thor around. It’s also not an excuse for his actions, because he probably could have disgorged the power if he cared enough to.to.
[[WMG: Thor was a JerkassGod because of the Christianisation of Europe]]
Bar Zhang Guo Lao, the entire Thor Revenge Squad's experiences with him can be explicitly dated to after or during the Christianisation of Europe, including/especially the homelands of Thor's traditional worshippers. Leif is about 1000 years old, when Scandinavia had been in the process of being Christianised for 200 years. Väinämöinen explicitly refers to his people turning Christian when he packed up and left, and the tipping point was around the 13th or 14th century. Perun referred to the composition of the Eddas when Thor tricked him, which is dated to around the 13th century. And Zhang Guo Lao can be inferred to be around the same time or after, as he and Thor communicated in Russian - the Kievan Rus', the official founders of Russia, were led by a Varangian warrior class of pagan Scandinavians until their official conversion in 988 under Vladimir the Great. Given that Russian was a distinct language that they shared (to an extent), they probably encountered each other either during the time of the Grand Duchy of Moscow, a vassal state of the Mongols and later the Golden Horde, putting the meeting between the 13th and 16th centuries. Gunnar, meanwhile, explicitly dates back to the 18th century.
During this time, Thor was being both promoted as a heroic defender of humanity in myths and folklore, such as the Eddas, but also being demonised by the Churches, and especially demonised given his prominent position, something that went on for over a thousand years. So, there were mixed images of him as an unmitigated {{Jerkass}} and possible demon, but also a hero and protector of humanity. The result? JerkWithAHeartOfGold, albeit one where the 'heart of gold' is borderline invisible. Once he dies, he loses all that mixed up belief baggage, and is a much more pleasant person as a result, explicitly thanking Atticus for helping to kill his previous incarnation.
[[WMG: Thor was a JerkassGod because of the Christianisation of Europe]]
Bar Zhang Guo Lao, the entire Thor Revenge Squad's experiences with him can be explicitly dated to after or during the Christianisation of Europe, including/especially the homelands of Thor's traditional worshippers. Leif is about 1000 years old, when Scandinavia had been in the process of being Christianised for 200 years. Väinämöinen explicitly refers to his people turning Christian when he packed up and left, and the tipping point was around the 13th or 14th century. Perun referred to the composition of the Eddas when Thor tricked him, which is dated to around the 13th century. And Zhang Guo Lao can be inferred to be around the same time or after, as he and Thor communicated in Russian - the Kievan Rus', the official founders of Russia, were led by a Varangian warrior class of pagan Scandinavians until their official conversion in 988 under Vladimir the Great. Given that Russian was a distinct language that they shared (to an extent), they probably encountered each other either during the time of the Grand Duchy of Moscow, a vassal state of the Mongols and later the Golden Horde, putting the meeting between the 13th and 16th centuries. Gunnar, meanwhile, explicitly dates back to the 18th century.
During this time, Thor was being both promoted as a heroic defender of humanity in myths and folklore, such as the Eddas, but also being demonised by the Churches, and especially demonised given his prominent position, something that went on for over a thousand years. So, there were mixed images of him as an unmitigated {{Jerkass}} and possible demon, but also a hero and protector of humanity. The result? JerkWithAHeartOfGold, albeit one where the 'heart of gold' is borderline invisible. Once he dies, he loses all that mixed up belief baggage, and is a much more pleasant person as a result, explicitly thanking Atticus for helping to kill his previous incarnation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
** If it doesn't work while you're dead, that would explain why he came back as such a different god.
to:
** If it doesn't work while you're dead, that would explain why he came back as such a different god.god.
[[WMG: Thor was a JerkassGod for a reason]]
Gunnar says Thor’s body was “a bottle for extremely poor weather, and his will makes a poor stopper.” This might just be a result of having a different view of the gods than Atticus espouses, but it seems like a unique description. Perhaps Thor saw the Tuatha De Danann with their godhood ''and'' their Druidic magic, and decided he wanted something similar. Or he otherwise just wanted more power. Whatever the inspiration, Thor probably ate storm spirits or something, not unlike how Nebweneff ate the Saharra elemental. Since he was a god, he was able to handle the power boost, but there were side effects, like making him more of a Jerkass sometimes. It would also explain why he is the strongest Thor around. It’s also not an excuse for his actions, because he probably could have disgorged the power if he cared enough to.
[[WMG: Thor was a JerkassGod for a reason]]
Gunnar says Thor’s body was “a bottle for extremely poor weather, and his will makes a poor stopper.” This might just be a result of having a different view of the gods than Atticus espouses, but it seems like a unique description. Perhaps Thor saw the Tuatha De Danann with their godhood ''and'' their Druidic magic, and decided he wanted something similar. Or he otherwise just wanted more power. Whatever the inspiration, Thor probably ate storm spirits or something, not unlike how Nebweneff ate the Saharra elemental. Since he was a god, he was able to handle the power boost, but there were side effects, like making him more of a Jerkass sometimes. It would also explain why he is the strongest Thor around. It’s also not an excuse for his actions, because he probably could have disgorged the power if he cared enough to.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
:Not exponentially. They've "only" been together for 30-something years, which is 5 or 6 times a wolfhound's normal lifespan.
to:
:Not exponentially. They've "only" been together for 30-something years, which is 5 or 6 times a wolfhound's normal lifespan.lifespan.
[[WMG: Thor succeeded where the Morrigan failed, and that's why he was such a jerk]]
The Morrigan let the huntress goddesses kill her when she realized she couldn't fight off the influence of her worshippers, but maybe she gave up too soon, and she just needed to keep on it. Atticus and whole iron thing proved the paradigm can shift. If Thor were stubborn enough (certainly in character) to fight off the influence of his believers or somehow discovered a work around, he would remain unchanging while everyone else developed in a kinder direction with the times and he might seem like a bigger jerk by comparison because of it. He is the original Thor, which means he's probably been around for a long time and originated during an era where more dickish behavior was acceptable.
** If it doesn't work while you're dead, that would explain why he came back as such a different god.
[[WMG: Thor succeeded where the Morrigan failed, and that's why he was such a jerk]]
The Morrigan let the huntress goddesses kill her when she realized she couldn't fight off the influence of her worshippers, but maybe she gave up too soon, and she just needed to keep on it. Atticus and whole iron thing proved the paradigm can shift. If Thor were stubborn enough (certainly in character) to fight off the influence of his believers or somehow discovered a work around, he would remain unchanging while everyone else developed in a kinder direction with the times and he might seem like a bigger jerk by comparison because of it. He is the original Thor, which means he's probably been around for a long time and originated during an era where more dickish behavior was acceptable.
** If it doesn't work while you're dead, that would explain why he came back as such a different god.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.
to:
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.on.
:Not exponentially. They've "only" been together for 30-something years, which is 5 or 6 times a wolfhound's normal lifespan.
:Not exponentially. They've "only" been together for 30-something years, which is 5 or 6 times a wolfhound's normal lifespan.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Time Lord joke.
Changed line(s) 16,19 (click to see context) from:
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.
[[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.
[[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.
to:
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.
[[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.on.
[[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
further evidence
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
* In Shattered, it is revealed that even though several gods have died so far most if not all of them wont stay dead. Due to the power of [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve belief]] the gods who still have some worship/relevance in the modern world can remanifest themselves.
to:
* In Shattered, it is revealed that even though several gods have died so far most if not all of them wont stay dead. Due to the power of [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve belief]] the gods who still have some worship/relevance in the modern world can remanifest themselves.
themselves.
* Shattered also involves a scene where the characters commune with the spirits of the dead on Samhain. Midhir appears immediately when summoned as a smokey outline and converses with all present. [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] on the other hand pops up suddenly next to Atticus, not having been summoned, appearing fully solid and even touching his chin, all conveniently while the other character's backs are all turned, and speaking to him telepathically so they cannot hear.
* Shattered also involves a scene where the characters commune with the spirits of the dead on Samhain. Midhir appears immediately when summoned as a smokey outline and converses with all present. [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] on the other hand pops up suddenly next to Atticus, not having been summoned, appearing fully solid and even touching his chin, all conveniently while the other character's backs are all turned, and speaking to him telepathically so they cannot hear.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) from:
* In Shattered, it is revealed that even though several gods have died so far most if not all of them wont stay dead. Due to the power [belief ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve]
to:
* In Shattered, it is revealed that even though several gods have died so far most if not all of them wont stay dead. Due to the power [belief ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve]
of [[ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve belief]] the gods who still have some worship/relevance in the modern world can remanifest themselves.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
to:
*In Shattered, it is revealed that even though several gods have died so far most if not all of them wont stay dead. Due to the power [belief ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Corrected formatting.
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* [[WMG: Certain important characters aren't dead.]]
to:
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
* [[WMG: Oberon will die.]]
to:
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* [[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have shut off herself, created some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor had anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is Goibniu, who seems genuinely distraught. The court of Faerie would be turned upside down in grief, (most of them, anyway), and they're not. The Olympians may be immortal, but the Tuatha would have mounted a very fast attack for retribution. They didn't.
to:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have shut off herself, created some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Danann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor had anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is Goibniu, Goibniu (after being informed by Atticus), who seems genuinely distraught. The court of Faerie would be turned upside down in grief, (most of them, anyway), and they're not. The Olympians may be immortal, but the Tuatha would have mounted a very fast attack for retribution. They didn't.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have shut off herself, created some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor have anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is Goibniu, who seems genuinely distraught. The court of Faerie would be turned upside down in grief, (most of them, anyway), and they're not. The Olympians may be immortal, but the Tuatha would have mounted a very fast attack for retribution. They didn't.
to:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have shut off herself, created some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor have had anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is Goibniu, who seems genuinely distraught. The court of Faerie would be turned upside down in grief, (most of them, anyway), and they're not. The Olympians may be immortal, but the Tuatha would have mounted a very fast attack for retribution. They didn't.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor have anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is
----
----
to:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done off herself, created some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor have anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is
----is Goibniu, who seems genuinely distraught. The court of Faerie would be turned upside down in grief, (most of them, anyway), and they're not. The Olympians may be immortal, but the Tuatha would have mounted a very fast attack for retribution. They didn't.
How better to gather her forces and help with the final attack on Ragnarok as a surprise than by completely faking her death? And as Atticus was closer to her than anyone else, convincing him would likely convince everyone else.
Goibniu even mentioned that Scathach was moving in - who, in lore, was the very dangerous woman who trained Ireland's greatest hero. Nobody'll mess with her if they think she's taken up residence in the fen. And what better bodyguard could you have while you're hiding and marshaling your magic and plans than the only woman to beat the best warrior in their history and taught him all he knew? Ergo - [[spoiler: the Morrigan]], a badass in battle in her own right, is alive.
* [[WMG: Oberon will die.]]
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.
* [[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.
----
How better to gather her forces and help with the final attack on Ragnarok as a surprise than by completely faking her death? And as Atticus was closer to her than anyone else, convincing him would likely convince everyone else.
Goibniu even mentioned that Scathach was moving in - who, in lore, was the very dangerous woman who trained Ireland's greatest hero. Nobody'll mess with her if they think she's taken up residence in the fen. And what better bodyguard could you have while you're hiding and marshaling your magic and plans than the only woman to beat the best warrior in their history and taught him all he knew? Ergo - [[spoiler: the Morrigan]], a badass in battle in her own right, is alive.
* [[WMG: Oberon will die.]]
Nobody wants anything to happen to that pooch, but he's lived exponentially longer than any other wolfhound that exists. And if you want real pathos, a real kick to the gut, the enemy won't kill his lover. They'll kill the unequipped, vulnerable dog that he's had as a best friend for far longer than he should have. It's not pretty, but it's war, and wrenching the heart out of Atticus would be a valid strategy on the bad guys' part. This is a WMG that I'm seriously hoping I'm wrong on.
* [[WMG: Because every entry has to have one...]]
Druids are Time Lords in training.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann.
to:
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann.
Danaann. Mannanan Mac Lir, who also has part of the job of ferrying souls to their rightful place, has not said a word about it nor have anything less than his usual hospitable behavior; the loss of [[spoiler: the Morrigan]] would have dealt him and the other Irish gods a great blow, but the only one who seems to know is
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
''Literature/IronDruidChronicles''
This is the Wild Mass Guessing page for Kevin Hearne's Iron Druid Chronicles series. Feel free to go so nuts with it that Loki thinks you're insane. Spoilers abound!
* [[WMG: Certain important characters aren't dead.]]
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann.
----
This is the Wild Mass Guessing page for Kevin Hearne's Iron Druid Chronicles series. Feel free to go so nuts with it that Loki thinks you're insane. Spoilers abound!
* [[WMG: Certain important characters aren't dead.]]
While fleeing from the huntresses, Atticus does not actually see [[spoiler: The Morrigan]] die. He simply loses all mental link with her, which she could very well have simply shut herself off, done some damage, and escaped intact, after divining that her greatest help to Atticus would be to pop in as a total surprise when the shit really hits the fan. She has other places to go than her Fen in Tir na nOg, or even in the earth plane itself, although it's more likely she IS in her home among the Tuatha De Danaann.
----
