History WMG / DarkSouls

** The main reason for that speculation is the apparent size compatibility between Seath and Ms. [[GagBoobs Ginormous Gozangas]], but let's remember that [[spoiler: while the illusory Gwynevere is effing huge, there's no evidence pointing to the real one being the same way]], or evidence pointing to her being the only woman that huge.

The fight against Gravelord Nito is very similar to the situation in the Machinima/LeeroyJenkinsVideo; you have to move carefully, or else you'll stir up all sorts of powerful mooks (in this case, [[DemBones skeletal ones]] rather than dragon whelps) who will overwhelm you with numbers. Paladin Leeroy, [[LeeroyJenkins being what he is]], would make a habit of doing this each and every single time he faced Nito. He would do it alone, sometimes he would try and summon phantoms for help, and sometimes he would become a phantom himself, just so he could somehow defeat the Gravelord, and failed every single time for his reckless behavior. And after trying and failing so much while in the company of others, other Undead adventurers eventually learned that he's bad news and thus refuse to summon or assist him. Which leaves Leeroy, who never learned his lesson, in a bad situation; he lost so much humanity that he was in danger of going hollow. Thus his invasion of you is one last-ditch effort to try and get some humanity and keep his mind from cracking, since he could no longer get it by being summoned.

The entity you face in the Kiln isn't really Gwyn, but the "spirit" of the First Flame, using Gwyn (as its first sacrifice) as an avatar. Taking on his skills and abilities, while Gwyn's consciousness is gone. His charred looking body only makes him appear to be hollowed, even tho DS3 says that the curse of the Undead only affects humans. He blindly attacks you, not because he is desperately trying to defend the dying flame, but the flame itself is trying to A. Protect itself from being snuffed out, B. Testing the Chosen Undead to see if he is strong enough to be used as fuel (as if the Chosen Undead can indeed defeat its avatar, then they are probably strong enough to keep the fire burning awhile longer). This is shown more clearly in DS3, where the "Soul of Cinder" is an amalgamation of everyone who has ever Linked the Fire. The First Flame has added the appearance and abilities of the other sacrifices to its avatar, while maintaining its own conciousness (as the Soul of Cinder attacks you just as furiously as "Gwyn" did in DS1). It reverts to using Gwyn's attacks as its last stage as its other, primary options have failed.

** [[spoiler: Except Knight Kirk isn't even a true Darkwraith, and he's not invading ForTheEvulz after all. He's really a Chaos Servant [[AntiVillain farming humanity for Quelagg's sister]]. But the Chaos covenant doesn't grant [=PvP=] benefits, so Kirk joined the Darkwraiths (or at least adopted their techniques) in order to steal humanity from other undead. He keeps invading player characters (as opposed to other [=NPCs=]) [[BatmanGambit because they're the most effective at gathering humanity]]. NotSoDifferent from a Chaos Servant player character, is he?]]

The Crestfallen Warrior mention's New Londo as having once been an undead city. [[spoiler: This likely means that New Londo was built by undead, specifically to house the undead on their own terms. Gwyn was still alive when the city was thriving and personally granted its leaders a portion of his own power. This means the curse of undeath has been around for over a thousand years and there has been no mention of it vanishing for a point and time when Gwyn sacrificed himself to rekindle the flame, which is very telling. Kindling the fire has absolutely nothing to do with the Darksign.]] Havel the rock is mentioned as having been an old friend of Gwyn.[[spoiler: This means Havel has been around for at least 1000 years. His weapon, the Dragon Tooth, implies he has been around since the war against the everlasting dragons making him even older. An undead that has been around since the war against the dragons wouldn't make sense if the Dark Sign is caused by the fading of the First Flame.]]

[[{{Troll}} For that matter]], Manus, who may be the Furtive Pigmy himself is ''also''(?) a God of Darkness. And he has been corrupted into a [[BeastOfTheApocalypse beastly state]], along with practically everyone still alive at Oolacile, there's no doubt there were grown woman living there. [[ReallyGetsAround What has been going on]] while neither the PlayerCharacter or anyone else was looking? What were Manus's [[AttemptedRape REAL intentions]] and EvilPlan with the resident DamselInDistress Dusk, [[FridgeHorror that he was so willing to restrain himself from]], Even in such an AxCrazy state?

While I admit part of the point is to {{Troll}} tropers who read this theory (Like you watching this screen), this idea, which suddenly came to me today ''[[EpilepticTrees could]]'' [[SincerityMode have some genuine credit]].
Let's put it this way: when you search for a romantic partner, what do you seek to find in them. I'd imagine it would be human qualities on every level, be it physical, mental, moral or emotional. Even if someone is erh... ''[[ExtremeOmnisexual eccentric]]'' in this regard, they will at least seek something resembling human.

Now, with that said, the Dark Soul is stated to be everything that is fundamentally human about the human race and thanks to the [[{{Curse}} Darksign]] there are people walking around with different amounts of if, the lack of it causing you to transform into rotting, SoulEating zombies.
We also know that all humans inherited fragments of the Dark Soul from the Furtive Pigmy.

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(Different troper) There is definitely something fishy about the whole Undead Prophecy, especially since we never get Gwyn's take on it from the man himself. In order to even get to Gwyn, the player needs to kill Nito, the Witch of Izalith, Seathe the Scaleless ''and'' the Four Kings to fill the Lordvessel. All of whom [=were/are=] Gwyn's old allies. That seems [[WhatTheHellHero a rather dickish thing to do to your own friends]] if this was Gwyn's plan all along. The other gods besides Gwyndolin have all left Lordran, and you can even kill Gwyndolin yourself, leaving Lordran completely to its own devices. Whether you link the Fire or not, the Age of Fire as Gwyn knew it is already long gone. So really, what's the point of keeping it going, except that the alternative might be much worse?

* Lautrec represents the more {{Jerkass}} playerbase. These people have decided that the best way to power level is not to proceed through the game as normal, but to go to any of the more popular PvP zones (like Anor Londo, the Kiln of the First Flame, or Darkroot Garden) in human form, and summon two phantoms. After that, they sit around, kill every invader effortlessly (using [[GameBreaker cheap tactics]]), and throw rude gestures around. In other words, they do exactly what Lautrec does in Anor Londo.

** [[spoiler: Except Knight Kirk isn't even a true Darkwraith, and he's not invading ForTheEvulz after all. He's really a Chaos Servant [[AntiVillain farming humanity for Quelagg's sister]]. But the Chaos covenant doesn't grant PvP benefits, so Kirk joined the Darkwraiths (or at least adopted their techniques) in order to steal humanity from other undead. He keeps invading player characters (as opposed to other [=NPCs=]) [[BatmanGambit because they're the most effective at gathering humanity]]. NotSoDifferent from a Chaos Servant player character, is he?]]

[[WMG: Lautrec and Fina's relationship is much darker than we ever thought.]]
[[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o95uUu7I9Xs&rdm=39b9m6441&noapp=1&client=mv-google I saw a comment on Vaati Vidya's video on Lautrec that I really thought was interesting: A commenter named thekillers1stfan said that Lautrec is “totally Fina's child not her lover”.]] [[https://vaguespeculations.wordpress.com/2014/03/ He based this off the statue in the Undead Parish of a mother (implied to be Fina) holding her child,]] and because we first find Lautrec in a cell in the Undead Parish, and Lautrec adores Fina, he came to the conclusion that the child the statue of Fina was holding was Lautrec, her son. I though this was an interesting idea, but one thing didn't seem right to me. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Favor_and_Protection The Ring of Favor talks about Fina's “fateful beauty”, which seemed to indicate a romantic relationship.]] So was Lautrec Fina's lover or her son? [[ParentalIncest And then it hit me: He was both.]]

Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other. When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone shunning him and Fina because they were repulsed by their incestuous relationship. Lautrec forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to him and Fina enduring hatred because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other.

Because of her incestuous relationship with her son/lover, the other gods tried to hide the evidence of the now-disgraced Fina as a way of punishing her (though they didn't succeed in destroying all of the evidence), which is why there are so few references to her. Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover. After their separation, Fina then forgot about her son/lover, and he was replaced in her affection by other men. [[https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Embraced+Armor+of+Favor The Embraced Armor of Favor says that the armor “is crafted to depict [Fina's] embrace, quite ignoring the fact that her love is in fact as fickle as the weather.”]] This refers to Fina taking other men as lovers.

While exiled in Carim, Lautrec attempted to address his sadness at being separated from Fina by having a suit of armor made for him that would always remind him of the love that he and Fina had, both as mother and son and as lovers. While Lautrec was in Carim, the pious pardoner Oswald attempted to reform him. Oswald's efforts to reform Lautrec failed, because he still was in love with Fina. [[https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Helm+of+Favor The Helm of Favor says that “Adrift on sea of isolation, only his faith in the love of [Fina] remained true, and so the knight forsook all else.”]] Lautrec was sustained in his exile by his love for his mother/lover, and this unnatural love he still felt gave him the strength to return to Lordran intent on revenge, wearing the armor he had made for him to remind him of Fina.

Lautrec decided to take revenge for being first ostracized and then exiled because of his incestuous relationship with Fina. Lautrec kills firekeepers because they represent the “proper way of life” he and his mother/lover had been punished for defying. In Lordran, Lautrec met Petrus which is how he learned about his plan to kill Rhea. At first, Lautrec asked Petrus to help him in his quest for revenge, but when Petrus refused Lautrec came to hate him. After being tricked by Patches, Lautrec came to hate him as well.

While in Lordran, Lautrec searched for shrines to Fina that he could worship at, as a way of honoring their unnatural love, but this was difficult because the other gods had destroyed most of Fina's shrines. Eventually, Lautrec found the shrine to Fina in the Undead Parish. This became a site of worship for him, where he would remember his incestuous romance with Fina and renew his oath of revenge against those who had shunned them. But one day, Oswald of Carim saw Lautrec worshipping at the statue of Fina and her child, who was of course a young Lautrec. Oswald recognized Lautrec as Fina's son/lover who he had tried and failed to reform. Oswald then imprisoned Lautrec as punishment for his incestuous relationship with Fina, for escaping from exile, for worshipping the now-disgraced Fina, and for murdering firekeepers. Lautrec remained in the cell for a long time. And then some ''idiot'' came along and freed him...

Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other. When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone shunning him and Fina because they were repulsed by their incestuous relationship. Lautrec forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to him and Fina enduring hatred because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other. Because of her incestuous relationship with her son/lover, the other gods tried to hide the evidence of the now-disgraced Fina as a way of punishing her (though they didn't succeed in destroying all of the evidence), which is why there are so few references to her. Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover. After their separation, Fina then forgot about her son/lover, and he was replaced in her affection by other men. [[https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Embraced+Armor+of+Favor The Embraced Armor of Favor says that the armor “is crafted to depict [Fina's] embrace, quite ignoring the fact that her love is in fact as fickle as the weather.”]] This refers to Fina taking other men as lovers.

While exiled in Carim, Lautrec attempted to address his sadness at being separated from Fina by having a suit of armor made for him that would always remind him of the love that he and Fina had, both as mother and son and as lovers. While Lautrec was in Carim, the pious pardoner Oswald attempted to reform him. Oswald's efforts to reform Lautrec failed, because he still was in love with Fina. [[https://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Helm+of+Favor The Helm of Favor says that “Adrift on sea of isolation, only his faith in the love of [Fina] remained true, and so the knight forsook all else.”]] Lautrec was sustained in his exile by his love for his mother/lover, and this unnatural love he still felt inspired him to take revenge for being first shunned and then exiled. and Lautrec returned to Lordran intent on revenge and wearing the armor he had made for him to remind him of Fina.

[[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o95uUu7I9Xs&rdm=39b9m6441&noapp=1&client=mv-google I saw a comment on Vaati Vidya's video on Lautrec that I really thought was interesting: A commenter named thekillers1stfan said that Lautrec is “totally Fina's child not her lover”.]] [[https://vaguespeculations.wordpress.com/2014/03/ He based this off the statue in the Undead Parish of a mother holding her child]] and because we first find Lautrec in a cell in the Undead Parish, and Lautrec adores Fina, he came to the conclusion that the statue was a statue of Fina and that the child she was holding was Lautrec, her son. I though this was an interesting idea, but one thing didn't seem right to me. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Ring_of_Favor_and_Protection The Ring of Favor talks about Fina's “fateful beauty”, which seemed to indicate a romantic relationship.]] So was Lautrec Fina's lover or her son? [[ParentalIncest And then it hit me: He was both.]]

Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other.When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone shunning him and Fina because they were repulsed by their incestuous relationship. Lautrec forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to him and Fina enduring hatred because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other. Because of her incestuous relationship with her son/lover, the other gods tried to hide the evidence of the now-disgraced Fina as a way of punishing her (though they didn't succeed in destroying all of the evidence), which is why there are so few references to her.

Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover. In Carim, Lautrec attempted to address his sadness of being separated from Fina by having a suit of armor made for him that would always remind him of the love that he and Fina had, both as mother and son and as lovers. While Lautrec was in Carim, the pious pardoner Oswald attempted to reform him. Oswald's efforts to reform Lautrec failed, and Lautrec returned to Lordran intent on revenge and wearing the armor he had made for him to remind him of Fina.

While in Lordran, Lautrec searched for shrines to Fina that he could worship at, as a way of honoring their unnatural love, but this was difficult because the other gods had destroyed most of Fina's shrines. Eventually, Lautrec found the shrine to Fina in the Undead Parish. This became a site of worship for him, where he would remember his incestuous romance with Fina and renew his oath of revenge against those who had shunned them. But one day, Oswald of Carim saw Lautrec worshipping at the statue of Fina and her child, who was of course a young Lautrec. Oswald recognized Lautrec as Fina's son/lover who he had tried and failed to reform. Oswald then imprisoned Lautrec as punishment for his incestuous relationship with Fina, for escaping from exile, for worshipping the now-disgraced Fina, and for murdering firekeepers. Lautrec remained in the cell for a one time. And then some ''idiot'' came along and freed him...

[[ParentalIncest Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other.]] When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone shunning him and Fina because they were repulsed by their incestuous relationship. Lautrec forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to him and Fina enduring hatred because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other. Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover. In Carim, Lautrec attempted to address his sadness of being separated from Fina by having a suit of armor made for him that would always remind him of the love that he and Fina had, both as mother and son and as lovers. While Lautrec was in Carim, the pious pardoner Oswald attempted to reform him. Because of her incestuous relationship with her son, the other gods tried to hide the evidence of the now-disgraced Fina as a way of punishing her (though they didn't succeed in destroying all of the evidence), which is why there are so few references to her. Oswald's efforts to reform Lautrec failed, and Lautrec returned to Lordran intent on revenge and wearing the armor he had made for him to remind him of Fina. Lautrec decided to take revenge for being first ostracized and then exiled because of his incestuous relationship with Fina. Lautrec kills firekeepers because they represent the “proper way of life” he and his mother/lover had been punished for defying. While in Lordran, Lautrec searched for shrines to Fina that he could worship at, as a way of honoring their unnatural love, but this was difficult because the other gods had destroyed most of Fina's shrines. Eventually, Lautrec found the shrine to Fina in the Undead Parish. This became a site of worship for him, where he would remember his incestuous romance with Fina and renew his oath of revenge against those who had shunned them. But one day, Oswald of Carim saw Lautrec worshipping at the statue of Fina and her child, who was of course a young Lautrec. Oswald recognized Lautrec as Fina's son/lover who he had tried and failed to reform. Oswald then imprisoned Lautrec as punishment for his incestuous relationship with Fina, for escaping from exile, for worshipping the now-disgraced Fina, and for murdering firekeepers. Lautrec remained in the cell for a one time. And then some ''idiot'' came along and freed him...

[[ParentalIncest Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other.]] When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone else wanting nothing to do with him because they were repulsed by his incestuous relationship with Fina. Lautrec forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to him and Fina enduring hatred because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other. Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover. Because of her incestuous relationship with her son, the other gods tried to hide the evidence of Fina as a way of punishing her (though they didn't succeed in destroying all of the evidence), which is why there are so few references to her. It's possible that while he was there, the pardoner Oswald attempted to reform him, as the pious Oswald is from Carim. However, Lautrec then returned to Lordran, wearing armor designed to remind him of Fina and intent on revenge. Lautrec decided to take revenge for being first ostracized and then exiled because of his incestuous relationship with Fina. Lautrec kills firekeepers because they represent the “proper way of life” he and his mother/lover had been punished for defying.

[[ParentalIncest Lautrec was Fina's son, but they fell in love with each other.]] When their unnatural relationship was discovered everyone was horrified. [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Helm_of_Favor The Helm of Favor tells us that “During his solitude, [Lautrec] forsook everything, for he believed in [Fina's] love for him.”]] Lautrec's solitude was everyone else wanting nothing to do with him because they were repulsed by his incestuous relationship with Fina. But he and Fina endured their hatred, because they were unhealthily obsessed with each other, which is what Laurence forsaking everything because he believed in Fina's love refers to. Eventually, Lautrec was exiled to Carim to separate him from his mother/lover.
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[[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o95uUu7I9Xs&rdm=39b9m6441&noapp=1&client=mv-google I saw a comment on Vaati Vidya's video on Lautrec that I really thought was interesting: A commenter named thekillers1stfan said that Lautrec is “totally Fina's child not her lover”.]] [[https://vaguespeculations.wordpress.com/2014/03/ He based this off the statue in the Undead Parish of a mother holding her child]] and because we first find Lautrec in a cell in the Undead Parish, and Lautrec adores Fina, he came to the conclusion that the statue was a statue of Fina and that the child she was holding was Lautrec, her son. I though this was an interesting idea, but one thing didn't seem right to me.

[[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o95uUu7I9Xs&rdm=39b9m6441&noapp=1&client=mv-google I saw a comment on Vaati Vidya's video on Lautrec that I really thought was interesting: A commenter named thekillers1stfan said that Lautrec is “totally Fina's child not her lover”.]] [[http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/File:Undead_parish_interior.jpg He based this off the statue]] [[https://vaguespeculations.wordpress.com/2014/03/ in the Undead Parish of a mother holding her child]] and that we first find Lautrec in a cell in the Undead Parish,

[[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o95uUu7I9Xs&rdm=39b9m6441&noapp=1&client=mv-google I saw a comment on Vaati Vidya's video on Lautrec that I really thought was interesting: A commenter named thekillers1stfan said that Lautrec is “totally Fina's child not her lover”.]] He based this off the statue in the Undead Parish of a mother holding her child