History VillainHasAPoint / TheDCU

* ''Series/{{Arrow}}'':
** In the episode [[Recap/ArrowS5E7Vigilante "Vigilante"]], while the titular VigilanteMan is clearly a KnightTemplar, most of Team Arrow, a group mostly comprised of morally grey [[AntiHero anti-heroes]], support his actions at first, until his actions result in civilian casualties that Vigilante [[KickTheDog dismisses as "collateral damage"]]. [[Comicbook/GreenArrow Oliver]], while being against Vigilante from the start, has to concede Vigilante's point that [[WretchedHive Star City]] is worse than ever, and Green Arrow's [[ThouShaltNotKill gentler]] methods aren't necessarily getting the job done.

** Behind the back of his mobster employers, Joker remarks that their desire for things to go back to how they were before Batman showed up is futile. Of course in the context where he brings this up, he isn't inferring this is a good thing, since Joker is taking the opportunity provided by Batman to put Gotham on the path to becoming an even worse place than before he showed up.

* ''WesternAnimation/TeenTitans2003'': In "[[Recap/TeenTitansS5E13ThingsChange Things Change]]", [[Characters/TeenTitans2003Slade Slade]] tells Beast Boy that the reason for Terra not remembering him is because she chooses not to. [[spoiler:Turns out he was right.]]

* ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'': Francis Grey's complaint about his 17 year sentence for stealing a small item (his sentence was bumped up due a series of accidents during his escape that caused a boatload of property damage):

** In ''Film/Shazam2019'', when Billy and the foster kids hide themselves among the attendees at the festival, Silvana calls them out for endangering innocent people.

*** "[[Recap/BatmanTheAnimatedSeriesE41JokersWild Joker's Wild]]" inverts this when [[Characters/DCAUBatman Batman]], caught in one of the Joker's explosive {{death trap}}s with which he also plans to level a casino, manages to talk his way out by pointing out to the Joker that he's playing into the casino owner's hands, since the guy is ''trying'' to get the casino destroyed as part of an [[InsuranceFraud insurance scam]]. Much as it infuriates him, Joker realizes Batman is right, and he decides to abandon his death trap to go settle accounts with the casino owner instead.

*** "[[Recap/BatmanTheAnimatedSeriesE41JokersWild Joker's Wild]]" inverts this when Batman, caught in one of the Joker's explosive {{death trap}}s with which he also plans to level a casino, manages to talk his way out by pointing out to the Joker that he's playing into the casino owner's hands, since the guy is ''trying'' to get the casino destroyed as part of an [[InsuranceFraud insurance scam]]. Much as it infuriates him, Joker realizes Batman is right, and he decides to abandon his death trap to go settle accounts with the casino owner instead.

*** Although they shot themselves in the foot multiple times by being more of a threat to the world than the Justice League, it's acknowledged even InUniverse that Project Cadmus has a point about the scary potential of what the Justice League could do if they wanted (especially since they were visited by an AlternateUniverse League, the Justice Lords, who had conquered their world and come to do the same to this one), especially given some of the questionable decisions that the Justice League has made. Most notably, installing [[KillSat a giant laser in their orbital base and aiming it at the planet]] without asking for anyone's permission or even telling them about it.

*** In "[[Recap/JusticeLeagueUnlimitedS1E8TheReturn The Return]]", the one who finally manages to get rid of Amazo is Luthor, who causes the god-like android to question his purpose and motivation, telling him, quite simply, that he's doing ''nothing'' with his near-omniscient power. It seems that, if Amazo has a weakness at all, it's lack of imagination. Amazo can't deny this, and leaves to ''find'' a purpose.

*** [[TheJailer Lock-Up]] points out that Arkham is a CardboardPrison with a revolving door. When he [[CanonImmigrant shows up in the comics]], Batman ''does'' briefly team up with him.
*** "Joker's Wild" inverts this when Batman, caught in one of the Joker's explosive {{death trap}}s with which he also plans to level a casino, manages to talk his way out by pointing out to the Joker that he's playing into the casino owner's hands, since the guy is ''trying'' to get the casino destroyed as part of an [[InsuranceFraud insurance scam]]. Much as it infuriates him, Joker realizes Batman is right, and he decides to abandon his death trap to go settle accounts with the casino owner instead.

*** Although they shot themselves in the foot multiple times by being more of a threat to the world than the Justice League, it's acknowledged that Project Cadmus has a point about the scary potential of what the Justice League could do if they wanted (especially since they were visited by an AlternateUniverse League, the Justice Lords, who had conquered their world and come to do the same to this one), especially given some of the questionable decisions that the Justice League has made. Most notably, installing [[KillSat a giant laser in their orbital base and aiming it at the planet]] without asking for anyone's permission or even telling them about it.

*** In "The Return", the one who finally manages to get rid of Amazo is Luthor, who causes the god-like android to question his purpose and motivation, telling him, quite simply, that he's doing ''nothing'' with his near-omniscient power. It seems that, if Amazo has a weakness at all, it's lack of imagination. Amazo can't deny this, and leaves to ''find'' a purpose.
*** In "Destroyer", after the League and the Secret Society defeat Darkseid [[EnemyMine together]], the villains protest that they deserve better than being immediately incarcerated. Batman concedes the point sufficiently to give them [[MercyLead five minutes]] to run for it.
* ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice2010'': Mr. Twister points out that the heroes of the Justice League are using their teenaged sidekicks as ChildSoldiers for secret and highly dangerous missions. [[EvenEvilHasStandards Twister goes as far as to say that even he's disturbed by what the League is doing]].

* ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamOrigins'': [[Characters/BatmanArkhamSeriesTheRiddler The Riddler]] is an egomaniac and TautologicalTemplar who thinks he's [[PayEvilUntoEvil Paying Evil Unto Evil]] by [[InformationBroker exposing dirty secrets]] in Gotham. During one of their exchanges, Batman demands that he stop. After Riddler states that he's mainly trying to clean up the streets, entice the police to do their jobs, and remove corruption, Batman replies that this is simply blackmail. Riddler then asks [[NotSoDifferentRemark if what he's doing is worse than beating criminals up]]. Batman noticeably doesn't have a rebuttal for this.

* ''ComicBook/{{Batman}}'': In ''The Brave and the Bold ''#191, Batman suspects the Joker is responsible for the murder of the Penguin, only for the Joker to reveal [[NotMeThisTime it wasn't him]] -- arguing that it ''couldn't'' have been him, since he always takes credit for his work. Batman begrudgingly admits that he's right. [[Spoiler: His reluctant faith is justified when it turns out the Penguin is alive and framed Joker so that Pengy could pull off a murder at his own funeral.]]

* ''ComicBook/{{Batman}}'': In one comic Batman suspects the Joker is responsible for a murder he's investigating, only for the Joker to reveal [[NotMeThisTime it wasn't him]] -- arguing that it ''couldn't'' have been him, since he always takes credit for his work. Batman begrudgingly admits that he's right.

*** In "Destroyer", after the League and the Legion of Doom defeat Darkseid [[EnemyMine together]], the villains protest that they deserve better than being immediately incarcerated. Batman concedes the point sufficiently to give them [[MercyLead five minutes]] to run for it.
* While the Reach is just using it to discredit the Justice League, both they and early on, Mr. Twister point out that the version of the Justice League seen in ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice2010'' are using their teenaged sidekicks as ChildSoldiers. Twister goes as far as to point out their ages and say [[EvenEvilHasStandards he's disturbed by it]].

* ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamOrigins'': The Riddler is an egomaniac and TautologicalTemplar who thinks he's [[PayEvilUntoEvil Paying Evil Unto Evil]] by [[InformationBroker exposing dirty secrets]] in Gotham. During one of their exchanges, Batman demands that he stop. After Riddler states that he's mainly trying to clean up the streets, entice the police to do their jobs, and remove corruption, Batman replies that this is simply blackmail. Riddler then asks [[NotSoDifferentRemark if what he's doing is worse than beating criminals up]]. Batman noticeably doesn't have a rebuttal for this.

* In ''ComicBook/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' the reason Calibac's words finally convince Superman to stop adhering to ThouShaltNotKill is that they ring true. Apokolips keeps invading and supervillains keep re-offending because they know the worst superheroes will do to them is beat them up a little -- intimidating to a common street thug, but a questionable deterrent for those who also have superpowers. And on top of that, he points out that by doing so, he shows more concern for the lives of his enemies than those of the people he's protecting, and that an AlienInvasion by Apokolips plays by different rules than regular supervillain battles, making a no-kill rule burdensome at best.

* ''ComicBook/{{Batman}}'':
** ''ComicBook/{{Knightfall}}'': SerialKiller Victor Zsasz tells Batman that [[NotSoDifferentRemark the two of them are both killers]] -- and when Batman retorts that he does ''not'' kill, Zsasz insists that Batman's hatred of criminals makes him ''want'' to kill them, and [[WhatYouAreInTheDark he would actually do it if he believed he could get away with it]]. This argument then unhinges Batman to the point where he beats Zsasz bloody in a rage, breaking his jaw and fracturing his skull and coming within a blow or two of smashing in his brain before Renee Montoya stops him -- [[IResembleThatRemark all the while screaming that he is]] ''[[IResembleThatRemark not]]'' [[IResembleThatRemark a killer]].
** In the novelization, though, Zsasz's argument is [[PlayingWithATrope taken in a different direction]] when Batman is being stalked through the Batcave by Bane and considers using one of his collection of samurai swords to slice Bane open -- but then feels guilty when he remembers Zsasz's "killer" accusation. In fact, here Batman would have been completely justified in killing Bane because 1) psychologically tormented drug addict or not, Bane is still a mass-murdering monster and ManipulativeBastard, 2) Batman was acting purely in self-defense and 3) he's no match for Bane physically in his exhausted state and he can't think of any nonlethal way to bring him down. [[spoiler: Tragically, then, Batman gets his back broken by Bane because he forecloses his only option due to a point made by an enemy of his that was only ''partly'' applicable to real life, and an extremely disingenuous one at that.]]
** In another comic Batman suspects the Joker is responsible for a murder he's investigating, only for the Joker to reveal [[NotMeThisTime it wasn't him]] -- arguing that it ''couldn't'' have been him, since he always takes credit for his work. Batman begrudgingly admits that he's right.

* ''Franchise/GreenLantern'': [[KnightTemplar Sinestro]] left the Green Lantern Corps and started his own Sinestro Corps, because he felt that the Guardians of the Universe were doing a piss-poor job at policing the universe. Given that the Guardians tried to remove free will during ''ComicBook/RiseOfTheThirdArmy'', his suspicions are being proven right. He also made Green Lanterns abolish ThouShaltNotKill rule to make them better deal with threats in ''ComicBook/SinestroCorpsWar''.
* ''ComicBook/{{Superman}}'':
** "ComicBook/KryptonNoMore": Superman is so frightened of losing another home planet that he goes on a rampage, destroying environmental threats such as super-tankers. Super-villain Protector clashes with him, accusing Superman of setting himself up as judge, jury and executioner. Protector is slimy, violent and entirely self-serving, but he has a point. Even Comicbook/{{Supergirl}} called her cousin out on his behavior until Clark backed off.
** In "ComicBook/SupermanVsMuhammadAli", an alien race offers to pit their greatest champion against Earth's, winner take all. To decide Earth's champion, Superman and Muhammad Ali must face each other in a ring. Both heroes are given 24 hours to train, but Superman takes himself and Ali to a pocket dimension where time passes more slowly. Unfortunately, they are forced to return when the aliens discover Superman's trick. When Superman demands to know why they were summoned before their 24-hour deadline was up, the alien Emperor retorts Superman and Ali used a trick to buy themselves several weeks, ergo they were who ignored the deadline.
** "ComicBook/NewKrypton": Lex Luthor certainly wasn't wrong about what would happen if a whole army of Kryptonians landed on Earth. Even without Lane and Luthor's interference, the Kandorians (or at least their leadership) quickly showed themselves to be arrogant assholes who flouted human laws and felt themselves to be immune to any form of corrective behaviour. Luthor finds the affair extremely gratifying.
* ComicBook/PoisonIvy: She is completely right in thinking humans treat other life-forms and the environment in general horribly. The problem is she acts like humans do these things [[HumansAreBastards just to be dicks]], rather than because they need to eat plants or animals to live and she doesn't seem to realize or care that human civilization needs technology to survive that happens to be bad for the environment, as in a lot of cases there is no better alternative.

** ''Film/WonderWoman2017'': While [[spoiler:Ares]] does give mankind new ideas for killing each other, he reveals to Wonder Woman that the humans carried out war crimes entirely on their own volition and that [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters humanity is naturally inclined to violence]]. Given that UsefulNotes/WorldWarII and several other conflicts occur after his death and without his direct influence, to say nothing of the CrapsackWorld that is the [=DCEU=], [[spoiler:Ares]] is not entirely wrong. This is acknowledged by Wonder Woman herself in the final scene when she acknowledges that even if she can't change all of humanity, she can still save one human life at a time.

** In ''Film/Shazam2019'', when Billy and the foster kids hide themselves among the attendees at the festival, Silvana calls them out for endangering innocent people.

** Behind the back of his mobster employers, Joker remarks that their desire for things to go back to how they were before Batman showed up is futile. Of course in the context where he brings this up, he isn't inferring this is a good thing, since Joker is taking the opportunity provided by Batman to put Gotham on the path to becoming an even worse place than before he showed up.
* In the ''{{WesternAnimation/Wonder Woman|2009}}'' film Persephone's arguments about the wrongness of Hippolyta's hiding the Amazons away from Man's World:
-->'''Hippolyta''': You were given a life of peace and beauty!\\
'''Persephone''': And denied one of families and children. Yes Hippolyta, the Amazons ''are'' warriors, but we are ''women'' too.

* ''Series/Batman1966'': In "Dizzoner the Penguin", Penguin and Batman are running for mayor of Gotham City. The Penguin begins his debate statement by pointing out that Batman conceals his identity and his past behind a mask, which is actually a perfectly valid point (which he, however, uses as a springboard to segue into a [[InsaneTrollLogic comically absurd argument]] that since Batman is often in close contact with criminals he is probably a criminal himself).
* ''{{Series/Gotham}}'': Salvatore Maroni gets back at the Penguin for playing him for a sap by revealing to his mother, Gertrude, the awful truth about her son. While it is a KickTheDog moment, since he essentially verbally assaults the poor, innocent lady just to make her son squirm, he does bring a lot of ugly but legit points about Oswald being a cold-blooded monster guilty of too many crimes even for a Gotham criminal. And then, after being pushed too far once again, he proceeds to prove him right by stabbing a delivery boy to death only to vent his pain and rage.

* The tie-in comic to ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity'' has a cop denounce the Joker for killing "a lot of good husbands and fathers". Joker complains, not unreasonably, that nobody ever laments the dead ''bachelors''. Though the usual format is "husbands, fathers, and sons".
** Also from ''City'', Strange points out that Batman's mere presence creates his villains, and later games show that he is largely correct. You can link several villains' rise to power and/or motives directly to Batman; he possibly created Joker [[spoiler: who destroyed Black Mask's criminal empire]] which allowed Penguin to take over, Harvey was scarred in retaliation for Batman's actions against the mob, and Riddler did have good intentions and worked for GCPD before he went nuts and started risking innocent lives. Even Scarecrow takes his revenge by attacking the city, and the Arkham Knight would not exist if not for Batman.
** There are some good ones from ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamOrigins'':
*** The Riddler is an egomaniac and TautologicalTemplar who thinks he's [[PayEvilUntoEvil Paying Evil Unto Evil]] by [[InformationBroker exposing dirty secrets]] in Gotham. During one of their exchanges, Batman demands that he stop. After Riddler states that he's mainly trying to clean up the streets, entice the police to do their jobs, and remove corruption, Batman replies that this is simply blackmail. Riddler then asks [[NotSoDifferentRemark if what he's doing is worse than beating criminals up]]. Batman noticeably doesn't have a rebuttal for this.
*** Listen to Anarky's CharacterFilibuster after he's been apprehended and tied up, and he actually starts out with some good points. It's too bad that he quickly [[JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope nose dives off the slippery slope]] and invalidates his own argument a few moments later.
*** The Joker [[spoiler: points out how Batman hasn't accomplished much in his war on crime in the past two years, while he has only been in Gotham ''for two weeks'' yet he's [[NiceJobFixingItVillain done more help for Gotham]] by randomly doing his [[ItAmusedMe actions]]. These action include [[PayEvilUntoEvil executing]] [[DirtyCop Commissioner Loeb]], [[KickTheSonOfABitch dethroning Black Mask]], and exposing Blackgate as a CardboardPrison.]] Despite being a psychopath, The Joker is ''entirely correct'' about these particular points.
*** The [[spoiler: real]] Black Mask, after you capture him [[spoiler: after the fight in the church]], states that he will soon go free, as his resources are enough to buy or threaten the officials to release him, the judicial system (at least in Gotham) is a lie, and Batman himself is the sign of this. Add Anarky's information and your own knowledge about Gotham City, and it's difficult to disagree with his point.
* In ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'', the New Regime trailer. While Injustice!Superman and his fellows established a dictatorship and went to the deep end, their motivations are very understandable: before their coming to power, [[JokerImmunity criminals were unstoppable]], as it was essentially nothing to fear for them: the government did nothing to properly imprison or punish them, and heroes didn't kill in any circumstance. [[VideoGame/BatmanArkhamCity "Look at the Joker. Would he even exist if not for you?"]]
** In ''ComicBook/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' the reason Calibac's words finally convince Superman to stop adhering to ThouShaltNotKill is that they ring true. Apokolips keeps invading and supervillains keep re-offending because they know the worst superheroes will do to them is beat them up a little -- intimidating to a common street thug, but a questionable deterrent for those who also have superpowers. And on top of that, he points out that by doing so, he shows more concern for the lives of his enemies than those of the people he's protecting, and that an AlienInvasion by Apokolips plays by different rules than regular supervillain battles, making a no-kill rule burdensome at best.
** Likewise in ''VideoGame/Injustice2'', [[FallenHero Regime Superman]] and his loyalists bring out the flaws of Batman adhering to ThouShaltNotKill and traditional superheroics, pointing out how his misplaced mercy has let villains like ComicBook/TheJoker or Gorilla Grodd break free from {{Cardboard Prison}}s like Arkham, run amok menacing society, and [[KarmaHoudini face no repercussions]] [[JokerImmunity for their crimes]]. And when Superman and Batman argue over what to do with [[BigBad Brainiac]] once he was defeated, [[spoiler:the fallen Man of Steel asks the Caped Crusader how many innocent lives would have to be shed before he realizes it's necessary to kill villains like Brainiac, the Joker or Gorilla Grodd.]]

* ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'': Francis Grey's complaint about his 17 year sentence for stealing a small item:
-->'''Francis''': I took a ''watch''! Everything else was just an accident.

*** [[TheJailer Lock-Up]] points out that Arkham is a CardboardPrison with a revolving door, and the villains keep coming back. This doesn't justify his excessive punishments, but it's telling that, when he [[CanonImmigrant shows up in the comics]], Batman ''does'' briefly team up with him.

** ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'': In "Eyewitness", [[MasterOfIllusion Spellbinder]] tricks Barbara Gordon into thinking Batman killed Mad Stan. When Spellbinder's finally caught and exposed, [[EvilGloating his taunt to her]] [[FlawExploitation proves his point of her biased opinion and how she's ready to believe the worst in Terry]]. [[MoreThanMindControl His trick just finally pulled the trigger for it]].
** It's quite hard to fault Agent Bennet's fears and animosity for the titular synthoid from ''WesternAnimation/TheZetaProject'', even in spite of all the signs that the thing developing a conscience is genuine. His fears that its "conscience" is merely a ManchurianAgent ploy programmed into it by terrorists or just a malfunction is valid, and notably the synthoid used lethal force against Bennet's men in its ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' [[PoorlyDisguisedPilot introductory episode]] until Max convinced it not to, proving it is indeed willing and able to hurt people to get what it wants.

*** Although they shot themselves in the foot multiple times by being more of a threat to the world than the Justice League, it's acknowledged even InUniverse that Project Cadmus has a point about the scary potential of what the Justice League could do if they wanted (especially since they were visited by an AlternateUniverse League, the Justice Lords, who had conquered their world and come to do the same to this one), especially given some of the questionable decisions that the Justice League has made. Most notably, installing [[KillSat a giant laser in their orbital base and aiming it at the planet]] without asking for anyone's permission or even telling them about it.

*** In fact, the Justice Lords themselves only took over the world because America had elected ''Lex freaking Luthor'' as President and allowed him to almost cause a nuclear war. You can kind of sympathize with their viewpoint that people that dumb shouldn't be allowed to rule themselves.

*** Justice Lord Superman had a point when he [[WhatTheHellHero berates Superman for letting Luthor out of prison to stop them]]. Luthor [[IGaveMyWord doesn't turn on the Justice League]], but because he was released his EvilPlan leads to him using the Justice League's KillSat on a civillian target, nearly uploads his brain into a new Amazo to kill Superman, [[FusionDance fuses with]] Comicbook/{{Brainiac}} causing both villains to become more dangerous than ever and nearly destroy the Earth, and goes onto take over the [[LegionOfDoom Secret Society]] in attempt to revive Brainiac. His efforts to revive Brainiac fail, which instead brings back ComicBook/{{DARKSEID}}, who ends the EvilPowerVacuum on his planet that started after his death and leads his army to destroy all life on Earth.

* While the Reach is just using it to discredit the Justice League, both they and early on, Mr. Twister point out that the version of the Justice League seen in ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice2010'' are using their teenaged sidekicks as ChildSoldiers. Twister goes as far as to point out their ages and say [[EvenEvilHasStandards he's disturbed by it]].

* One of the most psychologically/emotionally charged sequences in the ''Franchise/{{Batman}}'': ''ComicBook/{{Knightfall}}'' saga comes early on, when SerialKiller Victor Zsasz tells Batman that [[NotSoDifferentRemark the two of them are both killers]] -- and when Batman retorts that he does ''not'' kill, Zsasz insists that Batman's hatred of criminals makes him ''want'' to kill them, and [[WhatYouAreInTheDark he would actually do it if he believed he could get away with it]]. This argument then unhinges Batman to the point where he beats Zsasz bloody in a rage, breaking his jaw and fracturing his skull and coming within a blow or two of smashing in his brain before Renee Montoya stops him -- [[IResembleThatRemark all the while screaming that he is]] ''[[IResembleThatRemark not]]'' [[IResembleThatRemark a killer]].

* In ''ComicBook/DoomsdayClock'' Batman calls Ozymandias out for the fact that he killed millions in a narcissistic plan that didn't even work. Ozymandias counters that the heroes have done nothing for their society besides locking villains up in {{Cardboard Prison}}s, that he actually tried to fix the underlying problems and that he actually succeeded in doing things like curing famine and cancer, solving the world's energy crisis and solving nuclear disarmament, and that not only is the DC Universe even more screwed up than the Watchmenverse the heroes aren't doing a damn thing to fix things because they're too busy indulging themselves. Batman is unable to answer the accusation. In this work, apparently, the countless good works done by the Wayne Foundation, not to mention the numerous times he and the rest of the JL ''saved their universe,'' are forgotten or never happened, despite said work being part of DC continuity post "New 52."
* In ''Franchise/GreenLantern,'' [[KnightTemplar Sinestro]] left the Green Lantern Corps and started his own Sinestro Corps, because he felt that the Guardians of the Universe were doing a piss-poor job at policing the universe. Given that the Guardians are indirectly responsible for the massacre that destroyed Atrocitius's sector, and that they tried to remove free will during ''ComicBook/RiseOfTheThirdArmy'', his suspicions are being proven right. He also made Green Lanterns abolish ThouShaltNotKill rule to make them better deal with threats. And let's not even get started with [[CrisisCrossover various crises]] and [[ComicBook/BlackestNight The Blackest Night]].
* In Franchise/{{Superman}} story arc ''Comicbook/KryptonNoMore'', Superman is so frightened of losing another home planet that he goes on a rampage, destroying environmental threats such as super-tankers. Super-villain Protector clashes with him, accusing Superman of setting himself up as judge, jury and executioner. Protector is slimy, violent and entirely self-serving, but he has a point. Even Comicbook/{{Supergirl}} called her cousin out on his behavior until Clark backed off.
* ''ComicBook/NewKrypton'': Lex Luthor certainly wasn't wrong about what would happen if a whole army of Kryptonians landed on Earth. Even without Lane and Luthor's interference, the Kandorians (or at least their leadership) quickly showed themselves to be arrogant supremacists who flouted human laws and felt themselves to be immune to any form of corrective behaviour. Luthor finds the affair extremely gratifying.

** Even earlier, in Season 1, Tempest's plans to [[KillThePoor level the Glades]] have a motivation where it's hard to deny they have some reasons for doing so -- namely, that the place is a WretchedHive of criminals and ApatheticCitizens despite having millions and millions of dollars poured into it via more conventional philanthropic aid. One member mentions his motivation being his daughter, who was gang-raped by Glades-dwellers with such savagery she fell into seemingly permanent catatonia. The BigBad, meanwhile, had his philanthropist wife stabbed by muggers and bleed to death in a public street over a span of hours. With stories like this, one can certainly understand why Tempest would feel that eradicating the area and driving out the inhabitants is a good idea.

** Arguably, Penguin's not wrong to call Batman a criminal. Bruce Wayne is not a member of law enforcement, he has no legal right to fight crime. And since Batman puts himself in these dangerous situations more often than not, he can't claim self defense. If criminals knew who Batman was, there would be so many assault charges filed against Bruce it could put Wayne Industries out of business.