History UsefulNotes / MisplacedNationalism

** The perception by Scottish and Welsh people that they are run as colonies by a distant and uncaring administration in London is seeping into the north of England for much the same reasons; there is discontent in the North that whoever they vote for, they are outnumbered by a far more populous South and South-East that effectively dictates by weight of numbers who runs the country. Many northern people will snarkily say that at least Scotland and Wales now have a measure of local autonomy -- and we ''don't''. this feeling of alientation and a suspicion that Britain is run purely for the benefit of London and the South-East is thought to have contributed to the North voting for Brexit -- just to stick it to London and its (perceived) out-of-touch insular intelligensia, in a big way (the irony being the people most backing Brexit were probably the most snobbish and out-of-touch people from the South. This means some more left-leaning people in the South perceive the North as being racist idiots for voting for Brexit, especially when many parts of the North decided to vote Tory instead of Labour for the first time due to their desire for Brexit, believing the North has screwed themselves over considering economic assessments of the effects of Brexit shows ironically many of the areas most in favour of it will be among the worst hit).

* Any discussion on an international forum regarding either the [[UsefulNotes/AssociationFootball Association]] or [[UsefulNotes/AmericanFootball American]] types of "football", even among people who don't follow sports. Arguments over the names of the sports, arguments over kit, all argument fodder. See the ''Fans of "That other Football"'' section on AcceptableHobbyTargets for more.

* Costa Rica is famous for having a very isolationist policy toward Central America. The country is not a member of the regional parliament and its integrational policies are normally tame at best. Costa Ricans also are famous for consider themselves richer, whiter and more peaceful that their neighbors (something that, of course, is not necessarily true). Naturally, these causes resentment towards them in many Central American countries, especially Nicaragua.
* Mexico and Costa Rica have a strong soccer rivalry that may cause very awful online fights, except for that; relationships between both countries are generally friendly.
* Costa Ricans also feel very proud of the fact that they abolished the Army. [[ValuesDissonance Probably hard to understand]] for people in other countries that, on the contrary, are proud of their armies and military power, but for ticos it is the other way around feeling that they are a particularly exemplary democratic and peaceful country that can lecture the world about pacifism and non-violence, something like the Gandhi of the countries. The fact that one of their presidents won the Nobel Peace Prize and that the country has mediated in many international peace agreements reinforce those beliefs.
* Costa Rican also tend to believe that their country has one of the world’s best democracies and that is one of the most democratic places. Costa Rica hasn’t had a coup or a civil war since 1948, nor a dictatorship for that matter, in a region when those were very common, and is often considered Latin America’s oldest (uninterrupted) democracy, yet of course many people among the intellectual elite may question this idyllic image.
* In general, according to some intellectuals like writer and feminist Tatiana Lobo, Costa Rica’s nationalism is base around three basic myths; (white) race, democracy and peace.

** One of the frustrating things for Scottish unionists is the proviso that because Brexit is perceived to promise economic harm and social division for Scotland, so it should separate from the UK. But this proviso is weakened in their eyes by the idea that independence (or [[TakeThat Scexit]] is somehow meant to be a magic bullet solution for these problems, but in fact all expert opinion suggests that it would bring its own economic disruption, social upheaval and popular division.

** Clashing mentalities there include the fact that the West Bank is, according to Literature/TheBible, part of the Jewish homeland, and the accompanying belief that Jews thus have a right to settle there; the Muslim belief that losing territory claimed by Islam something that must be corrected; the Jewish fear that without a stronghold and stubborn nature, people are going to wipe them out ''again''; the knowledge of the surrounding countries that, with such a strong army, acting like a terrified oppressed people ''makes no sense''; the question of whether the West Bank was Palestinian or Transjordanian (same with Gaza and Egypt); the belief of the Israelis that the fact that they've lived there for generations now gives them a claim on the land; the belief of the Palestinians that the fact that ''they've'' lived there for even ''more'' generations gives them a stronger claim on the land; the belief of the Middle Eastern Jews that nobody on either side seems to care that they never left... Each side has such a different way of viewing the conflict that it becomes nearly impossible to fully comprehend the other, much less have a reasonable discussion. It's essentially the Hatfields and [=McCoy=]s on a geopolitical scale.

** And the whole thing gets even uglier by the fact that the divide on that issue divides almost every political movement. Israel was founded in no small part by socialists and still has many kibbutzim, yet many Western Leftists have sympathy for the Palestinians (while others '''don't'''). Many religious Conservatives view Israel as some sort of "part of god's plan" (especially in the US), yet others resent it for not being Christian and the isolationist crowd resents the amount of aid it gets. It's fair to say that a group of politically minded people that discusses Israel -- even if they agree on every single other subject -- will descend into bickering and mutual accusations of being horrible people and traitors to their political cause in no time.
** In fact, a not so small number of people are just fed up with the whole debate and want ''both'' sides to just shut the hell up, and argue that the whole issue is getting way too much attention (which of course is likely to draw unfavorable answers [[EnemyMine from both sides]])

** Interestingly, sometimes Kurds and Armenians form an EnemyMine against Turks, but it's kind of a love-hate relationship. [[note]] The Kurds did participate in the Armenian genocide, but have for the most part apologized and have been trying to make nice with the Armenians. This isn't to say that every individual Kurd wants to, however, and Armenians are still usually weary of them.[[/note]]
* Israel and another neighbor they're frequently at odds with, Lebanon, can get pretty heated as well. Says something a Lebanese group managed to get ''Film/WonderWoman2017'' banned from the country because the film's star is an Israeli.

## Do not, under any circumstances, call Turkish coffee "Turkish coffee" unless it is written that way on the menu. If there is no menu, play it safe and call it "Greek coffee" in a Greek restaurant, "Arabic coffee" in an Arabic one,[[note]]Admittedly, they usually won't be ''too'' offended if you say "Turkish", unless the Turks have insulted their country of origin recently[[/note]] "Armenian coffee" in an Armenian one [[note]](in the actual country it is simply called coffee, or "soorj" in the native language, as if no other type exists)[[/note]], "Bosnian coffee" in a Bosnian one, "Cypriot coffee" in Cyprus[[note]]unless you're in the internationally unrecognized (except by Turkey) Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus[[/note]], and "Turkish coffee" ''if and only if'' you are actually in a Turkish restaurant/cafe.[[note]]You could get away with it in restaurants/cafes run by some of the Balkan countries, e.g. Serbian, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Romanian, Bulgarian, etc., but usually they'd just say "black coffee."[[/note]]

*** Also, do not get between an Egyptian and a Lebanese or Syrian when arguing over who makes better desserts (irrespective of who invented them); the Egyptians prefer smaller pastries with such intensive use of clarified butter that the things practically fry in the oven; Lebanese and Syrians prefer to use less clarified butter (although the quantities are still insane) but also serve larger pieces and drench everything in sugar syrup and honey (which the Egyptians do to a much lesser extent). (Note: Other than falafel and dessert, Egyptians and Lebanese get along pretty well, as to Egyptians and Syrians on a people-to-people level).

* UsefulNotes/{{Oregon}} in general is a testy one. From the Oregonian perspective, DON'T say you're from UsefulNotes/{{California}} or you'll be expected to be a spoiled and rude asshole who doesn't know how to drive and doesn't respect the history and culture of the state (in the Portland area this has morphed into a dislike of people from the East Coast over the past few years, thanks to the Hipster Invasion, even amongst people who came from the East Coast to Portland but did so years earlier). Also, DO NOT pronounce the last syllable of Oregon like "gone" or they'll never find your body. It's pronounced "gin," with a hard "g." Oregonians are also somewhat annoyed that it seems like the only things non-Oregonians know their state for is VideoGame/TheOregonTrail and Series/{{Portlandia}}, instead of its many other accomplishments.

* While UsefulNotes/{{Brazil}}ians can have some conflicts with neighbors (particularly FriendlyRival Argentina), they usually indulge in in-fighting, since like the US it's a country of continental proportions. It's usually started by people from UsefulNotes/SaoPaulo, the richest and most populous city (and its namesake state; they have a reputation rather like that of New Yorkers), with usual targets being Rio de Janeiro (who have a reputation rather like that of Southern Californians), and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Region,_Brazil the Northeast region]].

** The Netherlands is actually the host of 2 languages, which are Dutch and Frisian. Mentioning that people in the Netherlands only speak Dutch will cause a Dutchman to correct you. That is not even mentioning how problematic it is for people that are actual Frisians.

* A form of Misplaced Nationalism is frequently directed towards Europe from American conservatives, who accuse the US left of turning America into "a European country", which either means "a bit more liberal", "country with a public healthcare system" or "socialist nightmare" depending on how extreme/pissed off the speaker is. This generally infuriates Europeans, who don't appreciate being held up as a negative option and who think their own political consensuses are just fine thank you very much (the British are especially prickly with regard to the UsefulNotes/NationalHealthService, especially after the "Creator/StephenHawking [[CriticalResearchFailure wouldn't be alive if he was British"]] fiasco). Ann Coulter in particular severely annoyed European commentators when she said UsefulNotes/BarackObama would turn America into "some pathetic little Western European country, only without... America to save us". Ignoring the massive internet and historical debates over whether America ever actually has "saved" Europe (and vice-versa, cough Lafayette cough), most European audiences thought that statement crossed the line from ignorance to outright xenophobia. Similarly, Europe is usually held up as a negative option in such circles -- the idea that the United States ever has anything to learn from Europe ever is outright blasphemy, as opposed to the European political spectrum, where left-wingers admire the US first amendment (among other things and Brits on the left admire the U.S just for ''having'' a written constitution in the first place) and right-wingers admire the USA's welfare state (or rather, lack thereof).

* Some non-Americans for some reason tend to get pretty infuriated when an American company licenses a foreign franchise to America. This is typically out of concern that the steamroller that is Hollywood will completely Americanize the franchise beyond recognition, making it generic and destroying any cultural connections and/or characters. Although just as often, they're simply worried that Hollywood will just make it utterly suck (see ''Film/DragonballEvolution'').

** And speaking of the Civil War, the "Bleeding Kansas" affair that preceded it (and provided tragic {{Foreshadowing}] of what was to come) has led to an ongoing rivalry between Kansas and Missouri, a state which was heavily involved in the fiasco.

* Costa Rica is famous for having a very isolationist policy toward Central America. Is not a member of the regional parliament and its integrational policies are normally tame at best. Costa Ricans also are famous for consider themselves richer, whiter and more peaceful that their neighbors (something that, of course, is not necessarily true). Naturally, these causes resentment towards them in many Central Americans countries, especially Nicaragua.

* Costa Ricans also feel very proud of the fact that they abolished the Army. [[ValuesDissonance Probably hard to understand]] for people in other countries that, on the contrary, are proud of their armies and military power, but for ticos is the other way around feeling that they are a particularly exemplary democratic and peaceful country that can lecture the world about pacifism and non-violence, something like the Gandhi of the countries. The fact that one of their presidents won the Nobel Peace Prize and that the country has mediated in many international peace agreements reinforce those beliefs.

* In general, according to some intellectuals like writer and feminist Tatiana Lobo, Costa Rica’s nationalism is base around tree basic myths; (white) race, democracy and peace.

** UsefulNotes/{{Pennsylvania}} is often described as "UsefulNotes/{{Philadelphia}} in the east, UsefulNotes/{{Pittsburgh}} in the west, and Kentucky in the middle," referring to the vast rural area between the two cities, commonly known as [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyltucky "Pennsyltucky"]] (or "The T" if you're being polite[[note]]if you remove the Pittsburgh and Philly metropolitan areas, the remaining map is vaguely shaped like a short, fat letter T.[[/note]], which is every bit as culturally and politically distinct from the urban regions as you can imagine. It can be a bit annoying to Pennsylvanians ''from'' Pittsburgh or Philly--or one of the larger cities within the T like Harrisburg, Allentown, or Erie--since if you tell an outsider you're from Pennsylvania, their first thought is Amish Country.

--> "To foreigners, a Yankee is an American. To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner. To Northerners, a Yankee is an Easterner. To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander. To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter. And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast."

* Any discussion involving Cuba is likely to devolve into pro- or anti-American flaming, communism vs. capitalism flamewars, Che Guevara bashing/idealising, bickering about free health care, etc.

* Non-US residents assuming that the US is the same all over, or that it can be divided into North and South. The Midwest is not to be grouped with the Northeast, ever. And for the love of all that is holy, the South is not Texas!

* A strange version takes place in the comments for [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVmq9dq6Nsg this video]], titled "Portlandia : Dream of the 90s". For the most part it consists of people declaring (with various levels of seriousness, but always generally in favor of Portland) its perfect accuracy. Then along comes one guy saying Portland is just a wannabe Austin. The mockery of Austin that follows more or less fits the tone of previous Portland worship, but the Texan guy still doesn't seem to get the joke.
* Oregon in general is a testy one. From the Oregonian perspective, DON'T say you're from California or you'll be expected to be a spoiled and rude asshole who doesn't know how to drive and doesn't respect the history and culture of the state (in the Portland area this has morphed into a dislike of people from the East Coast over the past few years, thanks to the Hipster Invasion, even amongst people who came from the East Coast to Portland but did so years earlier). Also, DO NOT pronounce the last syllable of Oregon like "gone" or they'll never find your body. It's pronounced "gin," with a hard "g." Oregonians are also somewhat annoyed that it seems like the only things non-Oregonians know their state for is VideoGame/TheOregonTrail and Series/{{Portlandia}}, instead of its many other accomplishments.

* [[BigApplesauce New Yorkers]] vs. [[{{Joisey}} New Jerseyans]] on the issue of rightful ownership of the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. The landmarks are technically on New Jersey's side of the Hudson River, and Jersey City uses the Statue of Liberty on official documents and on "Welcome to Jersey City" signs, yet legally, they are exclaves of the [[UsefulNotes/NewYorkState State of New York]].[[note]]Well, Liberty Island is. Only part of Ellis Island is an exclave of New York, to wit the parts that were the "natural" island at high tide (or something like that); much of Ellis Island is reclaimed, made from fill. ''Those'' are part of New Jersey. The NY-NJ border runs in a little loop on the northeastern end of the island; most of the island, including the Immigration Building, is in NJ, but several buildings have the border running through them.[[/note]] The arguments can get quite fierce, especially as one gets closer to the Hudson.

** A near-identical dynamic exists in Illinois between UsefulNotes/{{Chicago}}land and the rest of the state, in Georgia between UsefulNotes/{{Atlanta}}. And between UsefulNotes/LosAngeles and UsefulNotes/SanFrancisco and the rest of California. And a similar rift has opened up in Colorado, [[http://www.coloradoan.com/article/20130607/WINDSORBEACON01/306070016/Rural-Colorado-counties-pursue-split-from-state over the issues of gun control and environmental regulation]]. This also applies to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/51st_state#From_other_states about 13]] other states. In general, "blue states" tend to be dominated by liberal, cosmopolitan urban areas surrounded by vast swathes of conservative rural areas.
** A similar dynamic is also true of Western Massachusetts vs. Boston, where the two have different cultures (though oddly Western Mass is more liberal despite being more rural), and where the former often feels like they get shafted in everything while Boston gets all the resources and attention. As such, anyone from Western Mass will be likely to emphasize the "Western" bit and get annoyed at being confused with Boston. This has all been true since before the US existed proper, resulting in [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shay%27s_Rebellion Shay's Rebellion]] and ''part of why the Constitution was created''. It is a rather [[UnknownRival one-sided fight]], though, in that Western Mass dislikes Boston but Boston barely notices they exist, or already thinks of Western Mass as its own state, if not the moon.
** Pennsylvania is often described as "UsefulNotes/{{Philadelphia}} in the east, UsefulNotes/{{Pittsburgh}} in the west, and Kentucky in the middle," referring to the vast rural area between the two cities, commonly known as [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyltucky "Pennsyltucky"]] (or "The T" if you're being polite[[note]]if you remove the Pittsburgh and Philly metropolitan areas, the remaining map is vaguely shaped like a short, fat letter T.[[/note]], which is every bit as culturally and politically distinct from the urban regions as you can imagine. It can be a bit annoying to Pennsylvanians ''from'' Pittsburgh or Philly--or one of the larger cities within the T like Harrisburg, Allentown, or Erie--since if you tell an outsider you're from Pennsylvania, their first thought is Amish Country.

** In UsefulNotes/{{Virginia}}, it's "Northern Virginia", i.e. anywhere roughly commuting distance from Washington D.C., versus "Southside Virginia", the Richmond area and points south, east, and west. In UsefulNotes/NorthCarolina, it's the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area, the Charlotte area, and everywhere else. Both divides are similar to the New York City/upstate divide above, with the added wrinkle in NC's case that Raleigh is the capital, Durham is a heavily black city in a mostly white state, and Chapel Hill's main claim to fame is [[StrawmanU hosting the University of North Carolina]]. Then there's Asheville, which is full of crazy hippies (and craft breweries).
* There's also a bit of state nationalism when it comes to Florida and California. A lot of Californians will point out that Florida is "like California but they replaced the fun with old people." However, Floridians will retort by pointing out that California is basically a desert and can't support a tropical climate like Florida does. This leads to citizens from the two states (usually people from central California vs. people from central Florida) calling each other "wannabes". Also, do not get between Californians and Floridians arguing about whose oranges are better.

* And then of course, there is UsefulNotes/{{Texas}}, known for people who are [[EverythingIsBigInTexas very vocally proud of their home state]] and who like to remind others that their state was a Republic before joining (or annexing, depending on your point of view and degree of tongue-in-cheek) the rest of the United States. It is ''not'' part of The South, and the opposite is also true (although Texas did secede and join the Confederate States of America during the UsefulNotes/AmericanCivilWar, and seceded from Mexico over the exact same issue, possibly making Texas Double South).
** Many people from other states, particularly the Western or Northeastern, will be derisive towards Texans for their (perceived or otherwise) overtly conspicuous state patriotism and anti-intellectualism. Often times, Americans will comment that Texas is to the rest of America what American is to the rest of the world (eg, Some Americans blame Texas and sometimes Florida for their poor international reputation). The rivalry between New Mexico and Texas, which can be felt everywhere from local New Mexicans complaining about Texan drivers on mountain roads to ''state vs state lawsuits'' for rights over the water from the Rio Grande, is one sided -- New Mexicans towards Texans -- but still very real.

** That being said, the end of the "war" was declared when the United States government declared Toledo as part of Ohio and gave Michigan the Upper Peninsula. In retrospect, the U.P. provides more revenue than Toledo ever could, but, ironically, people from the U.P. tend not to get along with people from the Mitten. The U.P. has long threatened to secede to Wisconsin. A lot this comes from the U.P. being more rural and a place for older people to retire to. Hilariously, Michiganders often get along better with Canadians than they do with people from the other peninsula.

* Chinese animation vs anime vs western animation. Usually start with "trope X is used! This work is copying others!" or "this style is copying!" and end (or not end) with World War II, Second Sino-Japanese War, Cold War, racism discussion thrown across the table. If only there was a Chinese/Japanese version of Wiki/ThisVeryWiki... You still got to wonder what will happen if you mention ''The King Of Pigs'' (a highly regarded South Korean animated film) to these people.

* Likewise, take any page on Wiki/TheOtherWiki dealing with any historical event, entity or person.

* Most cases of athletes or sports teams relocating can provoke flames online, but when it’s an athlete signing to a team from a different ''country'' in an international sport, this trope becomes involved and the vitriol goes UpToEleven. If competing against their home nation’s own team is likely, expect endless cries of “Traitor!” and insinuations that the second country only hires foreigners because their own athletes are no good.

** How do you mistake Finns for Swedes anyway? Finns sound like nobody else on the planet thanks to their Moon Talk.
*** Actually, Finnish-speaking Finns sound remarkably like Estonians. Linguists do consider Finland to be part of a separate language group that has been named as ''Finno-Ugric'', which in the present day consists of Estonian, Finnish and Hungarian. However, Finland belonged to UsefulNotes/{{Sweden}} until 1809 and about one-tenth of Finland's population consists of people who speak Swedish. Tove Jansson, the writer and artist of the ''Literature/TheMoomins'' happened to come from this minority and originally wrote the stories in Swedish.
*** Because of this, the Finnish school system mandates all Finns to learn Swedish from 7th grade at the latest, and because of ''that'', nine tenths hate that one tenth for it. By the way, this one tenth are Fenno-swedes, not Swedes, and certainly not "Swedes in Finland" or some variation thereof.

** Pennsylvania is often described as "UsefulNotes/{{Philadelphia}} in the east, UsefulNotes/{{Pittsburgh}} in the west, and Kentucky in the middle," referring to the vast rural area between the two cities, commonly known as [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsyltucky "Pennsyltucky"]] (or "The T" if you're being polite[[note]]if you remove the Pittsburgh and Philly metropolitan areas, the remaining map is vaguely shaped like a short, fat letter T.[[/note]] And yes, ''Series/OrangeIsTheNewBlack'' fans, ''that'' "Pennsatucky."[[note]]While the character is from Virginia, the real person she was based on is from western Pennsylvania[[/note]]), which is every bit as culturally and politically distinct from the urban regions as you can imagine. It can be a bit annoying to Pennsylvanians ''from'' Pittsburgh or Philly--or one of the larger cities within the T like Harrisburg, Allentown, or Erie--since if you tell an outsider you're from Pennsylvania, their first thought is Amish Country.

What is this force that divides {{Message Board}}s, derails discussions, and causes otherwise reasonable people to turn into [[PatrioticFervor frothing super-patriots?]] That's right, it's [[TitleDrop Misplaced Nationalism]], the division of the Internet along national[[note]](Nationalism is the belief that everyone is (born as) a member of a "nation", a group of people who all share certain traits (citizenship, language, culture, ethnicity). Most countries are nation-states, wherein the people of one nation predominate, but not all nations are countries and some countries -- like the now-defunct Austro-Hungarian Empire -- are dominated by the people of two or more "nations".)[[/note]] lines even though it's supposedly transcends borders and cultures. This generally comes hand in hand with the assumption that even though ''[[MyCountryRightOrWrong you]]'' [[MyCountryRightOrWrong may not agree with everything]] ''[[MyCountryRightOrWrong your]]'' [[MyCountryRightOrWrong country does]], people from other countries are totally complicit in everything ''their'' country does. Don't like their leader? Insult them for it or, better yet, blame them for supporting that person ([[MisBlamed even when they didn't]]). Have a grudge on their country for something that happened decades or even centuries ago? Bring it up now, and [[SinsOfOurFathers blame the current generation for it!]] Hold a nasty prejudice against another country? Rag on them for it! If they insist you're misinformed, tell them they're lying, because you clearly know more about their country than they do.

* Then there are the issues between Northern and Southern California, with the South seeing the North as a bunch of crazy hippies and nanny-state supporters, while the North views the south as a bunch of vapid celebrity- obsessed morons. This can get especially ugly whenever there’s a drought, with “They’re using our water to fill up their swimming pools!” type arguments being used.
* There's also a bit of this between New Hampshire and Massachusetts. As far as NH residents are concerned, MA is a corrupt, ridiculously expensive, overdeveloped shithole full of arrogant [M]assholes who couldn't care less about anyone other than themselves and think that they're the center of the universe, while MA residents think that NH is full of bedroom community dwellers who constantly talk shit about Massachusetts even though they have no problem working there, dumb hicks, and incredibly stupid and clueless libertarians. They have one thing in common, however: [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking each one thinks that the other's motorists are the rudest, most incompetent morons on the planet]].

* UsefulNotes/{{Michigan}} and UsefulNotes/{{Ohio}} "fought" a "[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War war]]" over [[UsefulNotes/ToledoOhio Toledo]] when Michigan was about to become a state (1835-36). (We are aware, in retrospect, that there are fewer things more pathetic to fight a war over than Toledo.) Neither state has let the other forget about it since: Ohioans have a wonderful ditty that starts "I don't give a damn about the whole State of Michigan..." (to the tune of "The Old Gray Mare"), while Michiganders, as is their tight-lipped quasi-Canadian wont (as well as not considering Ohio worthy of any cute songs), simply say, "Fuck Ohio." This war continues to be fought by proxy via the ongoing football rivalry between the Ohio State University Buckeyes and the University of Michigan Wolverines.

** One of the frustrating things for Scottish unionists is the proviso that because Brexit is perceived to promise economic harm and social division for Scotland, so it should separate from the UK. But this proviso is weakened in their eyes by the idea that independence (or [[TakeThat Scexit]] is somehow meant to be a magic bullet solution for these problems, but in fact all expert opinion suggests that it would bring it's own economic disruption, social upheaval and popular division.
** Tied into that is the fact that, even if we accept the nationalist premise that Scotland leaving the UK and then joining the EU will be as good or better for the country than it remaining in the UK (irrespective of whether Brexit actually happens), Scotland does not currently meet the membership requirements for joining the EU. Therefore, say unionists, we will have to endure a period of austerity so much greater than that as part of the UK under the Tory government (said Tory austerity which Scottish nationalists claim to hate so much) that Scotland will end up effectively bankrupt before it can even join the EU. This dilemma only looks even more stark in the context of the current Coronavirus pandemic; furlough for Scottish workers was achieved by the UK Treasury, but would be a much more difficult proposition for an independent Scotland alongside it's other financial obstacles.

** Also, its a good idea to NEVER EVER say that Lviv/Lwow is a Polish city where anyone can hear you, especially if they are from Western Ukraine, because it will launch a huge FlameWar. (For the record, since the post-WWII ethnic cleansing organised by the USSR it's no longer ethnically Polish.)

** Communism and the Soviet Union is still a very touchy issue, combined with historically justified mistrust of Russia and the fact that Romanians are a Latin-speaking[[note]]yes, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages Romanian is a Romance language]][[/note]] people in a sea of Slavs leads to Romanians having universal contempt for the Russians.

*** Amsterdam versus Rotterdam. ''Especially'' [[SeriousBusiness when football (soccer) gets involved]], with their respective teams of Ajax and Feyenoord.

** Economics is also entwined with politics. Some people from China consider Hongkongers as selfish, ungrateful, trouble-making colonial mongrels, and some Hongkongers maintain the success of China stemmed from HK having been its doorway to the globe and find the Chinese to be faceless, [[CreativeSterility creatively sterile]] cogs with no taste or sense of individuality. Some Chinese think HK should be grateful for all the money they spend in HK, but many more Hongkongers hate them for taking up extremely limited living space, key goods like hospital beds or milk powder (and mocking the Chinese for the utter nationalism, but whenever China has yet another safety scandal, they raid HK and empty it of all of its "quality" products) and generally treating HK like a grab bag of 'free' goodies at the expense of the locals living there, as well as their inability and unwillingness to abide by local customs and laws, which causes locals great inconvenience in their daily lives. In addition, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_baby anchor babies]] are also a very contentious point, as many Hongkongers view them as 'locusts', unfairly taking up school spots that are already stretched quite thin (it's normal for tens, if not hundreds of students to compete for a few spots in a prestigious school), as well as using public resources and services paid for by taxes (the parents of the anchor babies usually live in the mainland, meaning that the HK government cannot charge them taxes, but due to HK's jus soli policies, the anchor babies are entitled to use those resources, meaning that they can essentially use them for free), without 'giving back' to society as it were. There is also the argument whether Hong Kong is getting a fair deal for what it pays for water (especially when compared to Singapore, which gets it much cheaper from Malaysia, which also became latter's argument, citing HK's high prices as reason they should charge more).

** This gets even more muddled by the fact that Stalin would go on to kill more of his own people than Hitler did. It's so bad that it's often forgotten that Stalin ordered his own extermination of the Jews. Russians tend to focus on the people who fought for their country and their lives and tend to avoid any talk about the period of Stalinism.

** Also, its a good idea to NEVER EVER say that Lviv/Lwow is a Polish city where anyone can hear you, especially if they are from Western Ukraine, because it will launch a huge FlameWar. (For the recond, since the post-WWII ethnic cleansing organised by the USSR it's no longer ethnically Polish.)
*** Of course, Poles don't deny they conquered it during the Polish-Soviet war and organised some light ethnic cleansing under Joseph Pilsudski's military dictatorship in the '20s and '30s, they simply point out that the whole area was conquered and Polonized in ''1356'', so some of the people evicted from Lviv in 1945 and their families had been living there for almost 600 years.

** When talking with Poles, you should steer clear of any WW II -- related topics, unless you really want to start a flame war of similar magnitude. Especially dangerous topics includes:

* Costa Ricans also feel very proud of the fact that they abolished the Army. [[ValuesDissonance Probably hard to understand]] for people in other countries that, on the contrary, are proud of their armies and military power, but for ticos is the other way around feeling that they are a particularly exemplary democratic and peaceful country that can lecture the world about pacifism and non-violence, something like the Gandhi of the countries. The fact that one of their presidents won the Nobel Price of Peace and that the country has mediated in many international peace agreements reinforce those beliefs.

* Also related to Yugoslavia is Italy vs. Slovenia and/or Croatia (this isn't very common today, but it goes a long way into the past, starting with the expansion of medieval Venice onto the Eastern Shore of the Adriatic).

** Thanks to Stag parties going abroad to cheap Eastern European cities like Budapest, Prague and Riga you're seeing a new brand of annoyance toward the stereotypical annoying British tourist. This results in a bizarre twist of fate wherein it is recommended that Americans visiting Spain make it clear the they're ''American and not British.'' Many older Brits are apologetic for the UK being associated with the lad culture of cheap, Anglo-centic tourist-oriented package holidays in Benidorm and suchlike. When visiting Spain they will try to stay in smaller towns and discover the native Spanish culture. However, the economy is reliant enough on tourism that most places will be multilingual anyway (especially as there are large numbers of German tourists/expats as well).
* Special mention goes to the Scotland/England feud, which goes back a ''long'' time (people still talk about The Wars of Independence, which started in ''1286'') but has been given fervour by the ongoing independence debate. A lot of Scottish nationalists' rhetoric comes across as less 'pro-independence' and more 'anti-English', whereas the English arguments against independence can come across on occasion as rather patronising arguments for why Scotland is rubbish/wouldn't survive on its own (note: it should go without saying that Scottish unionists tend to feel the same way as these English naysayers). Tempers on all sides are easily inflamed, made even worse by the political divide (the current Prime Minister is a Tory, a party with very little support in Scotland, so the mutual animosity there doesn't help).

** Some English people will loudly object that if the Scots/Welsh/Northern Irish think that England's so terrible, they can ''leave'' (a common complaint is "they should have let US vote in the Scottish referendum -- we'd have kicked them out!") ...only for nationalists in those countries to bite back that they'd love to, but one look at England's conduct during and after the Scottish referendum would suggest that Westminster will try anything to prevent them from doing just that.

** One of the frustrating things for Scottish unionists is the proviso that because Brexit is perceived to promise economic harm and social division for Scotland, so it should separate from the UK. But this proviso is weakened in their eyes by the idea that independence is somehow meant to be a magic bullet solution for these problems, but in fact all expert opinion suggests that it would bring it's own economic disruption and social upheaval.
** Tied into that is the fact that, even if we accept the nationalist premise that Scotland leaving the UK and then joining the EU will be as good or better for the country than it remaining in the UK (irrespective of whether Brexit actually happens), Scotland does not currently meet the membership requirements for joining the EU. Therefore, say unionists, we will have to endure a period of austerity so much greater than that as part of the UK under the Tory government (said Tory austerity which Scottish nationalists claim to hate so much) that Scotland will end up effectively bankrupt before it can even join the EU. This dilemma only looks even more stark in the context of the current Coronavirus; furlough for Scottish workers was achieved by the UK Treasury, but would be a much more difficult proposition for an independent Scotland alongside it's other financial obstacles.

** Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would point out that the reason they ''need'' their own Parliaments is because they are vastly outnumbered by the English. Whichever party wins the UK election does so because it has the majority of English votes; there are more people in that one country than the other three put together. Once Parliament is in session, England retains this advantage: Scotland has 59 representatives ([=MP=]s), Wales 40 and Northern Ireland 18 -- a total of 117. England has ''533'' -- over quadruple the representatives of the other three countries. This means that, theoretically, all the [=MP=]s of Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland could vote against a proposal, but if just 326 of the 533 English representatives vote in favour of it, it will go through. Devolution grants a limited measure of protection for the smaller countries, but their powers are still limited by Westminster...which holds the power to abolish any of the three devolved Parliaments at any time (a proposal to make the Scottish Parliament permanent was voted down...in a vote dominated by the English [=MP=]s). Oh, and if you thought that the esteemed Members of Parliament were above misplaced nationalism and taking cheap digs at their neighbours? Think again.

* UsefulNotes/{{Michigan}} and UsefulNotes/{{Ohio}} "fought" a "[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War war]]" over [[UsefulNotes/ToledoOhio Toledo]] when Michigan was about to become a state (1835-36). (We are aware, in retrospect, that there are fewer things more pathetic to fight a war over than Toledo.) Neither state has let the other forget about it since: Ohioans have a wonderful ditty that starts "I don't give a damn about the whole State of Michigan..." (to the tune of "The Old Gray Mare"), while Michiganders, as is their tight-lipped quasi-Canadian wont, simply say, "Fuck Ohio." This war continues to be fought by proxy via the ongoing football rivalry between the Ohio State University Buckeyes and the University of Michigan Wolverines.

** This has gotten to the point that in some Baltic countries there are popular Nazi marches and local governments then stop Russophiles from holding marches of Holocaust survivors as a response.