History Trivia / TheAvengers

* OldShame: "The Avengers #200" is the single issue of the original comic line that ran from 1963 and into the 1980s that Marvel most wants to forget. It was so unpopular even when it came out in 1980 that Marvel immediately scrambled to address it in "The Avengers Annual #10" a year later.

** Editor Mark Gruenwald disliked Monica Rambeau and, once he decided to start making her look bad, the character never managed to recover during her ''Avengers'' run, not continued to suffer for two decades after it, only starting to come back into prominence with ''Comicbook/{{Nextwave}}'' three decades later. First he drafted a story that showed her to be an incompetent leader, in direct contrast to the two previous times she successfully lead the team, and [[https://web.archive.org/web/20040516190215/http://www.geocities.com/mh_prime/8802.html fired Roger Stern for protesting it]]. She was so ineffective The Avengers temporarily disbanded. Then he had her {{depower}}ed in a losing fight that left her emaciated and bedridden. Then she was kept from returning from the team by her mother, despite being an adult who was in freighting and law enforcement before her superhero career. Then she lost the title of Captain Marvel to new character Genis-Vell, then she lost her second superhero name Photon to Genis! All because Gruenwald was also the writer for Captain America and didn't like it when Avengers writer Creator/RogerStern had Captain America take orders from a novice superhero.

** Monica Rambeau might just his favorite among Roger Stern's Marvel creations and is unquestionably his favorite among The Avengers. He spent dozens of issues developing her from a frantic confused rookie into a leader with the veteran Avengers' full confidence.

CreatorsFavorite

* ShrugOfGod: When asked how ''The Avengers #200'' even came to be, Creator/JimShooter claimed he didn't entirely remember how it got published or who came up with the original idea. He nonetheless decided to take some of the heat, acknowledging that since was the editor at the time, and his name was in the credits, he obviously wasn't innocent himself, no matter if the idea came from him or not.

** Editor Mark Gruenwald disliked Monica Rambeau and, once he decided to start making her look bad, the character never managed to recover during her ''Avengers'' run, not continued to suffer for two decades after it, only starting to come back into prominence with ''Comicbook/NextWaveAgentsOfHate'' three decades later. First he drafted a story that showed her to be an incompetent leader, in direct contrast to the two previous times she successfully lead the team, and [[https://web.archive.org/web/20040516190215/http://www.geocities.com/mh_prime/8802.html fired Roger Stern for protesting it]]. She was so ineffective The Avengers temporarily disbanded. Then he had her {{depower}}ed in a losing fight that left her emaciated and bedridden. Then she was kept from returning from the team by her mother, despite being an adult who was in freighting and law enforcement before her superhero career. Then she lost the title of Captain Marvel to new character Genis-Vell, then she lost her second superhero name Photon to Genis! All because Gruenwald was also the writer for Captain America and didn't like it when Avengers writer Creator/RogerStern had Captain America take orders from a novice superhero.

** Editor Mark Gruenwald disliked Monica Rambeau and, once he decided to start making her look bad, the character never managed to recover during her ''Avengers'' run. First he drafted a story that showed her to be an incompetent leader, in direct contrast to the two previous times she successfully lead the team, and [[https://web.archive.org/web/20040516190215/http://www.geocities.com/mh_prime/8802.html fired Roger Stern for protesting it]]. She was so ineffective The Avengers temporarily disbanded. Then he had her {{depower}}ed in a losing fight that left her emaciated and bedridden. Then she was kept from returning from the team by her mother, despite being an adult who was in freighting and law enforcement before her superhero career. Then she lost the title of Captain Marvel to new character Genis-Vell, then she lost her second superhero name Photon to Genis! All because Gruenwald was also the writer for Captain America and didn't like it when Avengers writer Creator/RogerStern had Captain America take orders from a novice superhero.

** Monica Rambeau might just hisfavorite among Roger Stern's Marvel creations and is unquestionably his favorite among The Avengers. He spent dozens of issues developing her from a frantic confused rookie into a leader with the veteran Avengers' full confidence.

%%* CreatorsPest
%% This trope requires evidence of the creator stating that they dislike a character - so we either need to cite something where Gruenwald and Bendis have said this, or we need to cite someone else in the industry reliably reporting it second-hand.
%%** Editor Mark Gruenwald disliked Monica Rambeau and, once he decided to start making her look bad, the character never managed to recover during her ''Avengers'' run. First he drafted a story that showed her to be an incompetent leader, in direct contrast to the two previous times she successfully lead the team. She was so ineffective The Avengers temporarily disbanded. Then he had her {{depower}}ed in a losing fight that left her emaciated and bedridden. Then she was kept from returning from the team by her mother, despite being an adult who was in freighting and law enforcement before her superhero career. Then she lost the title of Captain Marvel to new character Genis-Vell, then she lost her second superhero name Photon to Genis! All because Gruenwald was also the writer for Captain America and didn't like it when Avengers writer Creator/RogerStern had Captain America take orders from a novice superhero.

* CreatorsPest
** Similar to Chris Claremont not wanting Cyclops when he took over ''X-Men'', editor Editor Mark Gruenwald disliked Monica Rambeau and once he decided to start making her look bad the character never managed to recover it. First he drafted a story that showed her to be an incompetent leader, in direct contrast to the two previous times she successfully lead the team. She was so ineffective The Avengers temporarily disbanded. Then he had her {{depower}}ed in a losing fight that left her emaciated and bedridden. Then she was kept from returning from the team by her mother, despite being an adult who was in freighting and law enforcement before her superhero career. Then she lost the title of Captain Marvel to new character Genis-Vell, then she lost her second superhero name Photon to Genis! All because Gruenwald was also the writer for Captain America and didn't like it when Avengers writer Roger Stern had Captain America take orders from a novice superhero.
** Somewhat inversely, Brian Michael Bendis is not subtle about the characters he dislikes - Hawkeye, Carol Danvers, and the Wasp. This becomes particularly apparent in how they TookALevelInJerkass under his pen, were killed off in Hawkeye and Wasp's case, and/or are subject to mean-spirited jokes at their expense. In Hawkeye's case, this comes with a particular brand of NotAsYouKnowThem, namely in having Clint advocate for the lethal option, eventually leading to him killing Bruce Banner, in-spite of the fact Hawkeye is infamously against killing, even to the extent it ruined his marriage.

* CreatorsPest: Somewhat inversely, Brian Michael Bendis is not subtle about the characters he dislikes - Hawkeye, Carol Danvers, and the Wasp. This becomes particularly apparent in how they TookALevelInJerkass under his pen, were killed off in Hawkeye and Wasp's case, and/or are subject to mean-spirited jokes at their expense. In Hawkeye's case, this comes with a particular brand of NotAsYouKnowThem, namely in having Clint advocate for the lethal option, eventually leading to him killing Bruce Banner, in-spite of the fact Hawkeye is infamously against killing, even to the extent it ruined his marriage.

* Prior to 2015, when the Fantastic Four comic was cancelled and he joined the Uncanny Avengers, the Human Torch was the only standard Fantastic Four member to not join the Avengers, and was in fact the only Stan Lee created character to have never done so. There have been many stand-in members of the Fantastic Four over the years that have also been Avengers: Comicbook/SheHulk, Comicbook/IncredibleHulk, Franchise/SpiderMan, {{Wolverine}}, ComicBook/LukeCage, Crystal of ComicBook/TheInhumans, [[ComicBook/SubMariner Namor]], and [[ComicBook/AntMan Ant-Man II]].

* WriterRevolt: After Creator/MarkMillar big success with ''ComicBook/UltimateXMen'', Marvel proposed that he write a spin-off comic, ''Ultimate ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'', but Millar wanted to use the ''Ultimate ComicBook/TheAvengers'' instead. Creator/KurtBusiek, the writer of the Avengers at the time, did not want that to happen, as he feared that the regular Avengers would be left in the shadow of this new comic book. As the ComicBook/UltimateMarvel universe was turning into a CashCowFranchise, so badly needed by Marvel to get rid of the risk of bankruptcy, they allowed Millar to work with the Avengers. The new team got a different name, as Busiek requested, and was named "ComicBook/TheUltimates". This was not enough for Busiek, who resigned from writing the Avengers as a result.

* ReferencedBy:
** In ''Literature/EvidenceOfThingsNotSeen'', the Avengers is one of the comics Chuy uses to learn English.
** In ''Film/GhostbustersAfterlife'', in one scene while "supervising" his summer school class, Mr. Grooberson can be seen reading an Avengers comic book.

* FanNickname: Rulk for the ComicBook/RedHulk

* ReferencedBy: In ''Literature/EvidenceOfThingsNotSeen'', the Avengers is one of the comics Chuy uses to learn English.

* [[ReferencedBy/TheAvengers Referenced By]]

* Prior to 2015, when the Fantastic Four comic was cancelled and he joined the Uncanny Avengers, the Human Torch was the only standard Fantastic Four member to not join the Avengers, and was in fact the only Stan Lee created character to have never done so. There have been many stand-in members of the Fantastic Four over the years that have also been Avengers: Comicbook/SheHulk, Comicbook/IncredibleHulk, Franchise/SpiderMan, {{Wolverine}}, {{ComicBook/Luke Cage|HeroForHire}}, Crystal of ComicBook/TheInhumans, [[ComicBook/SubMariner Namor]], and [[ComicBook/AntMan Ant-Man II]].

** It should be noted, though, that in the version of events where Hank hits Janet by accident that he does so because he is too focused on his work not to notice her ''which is why the marriage is falling apart''. It's possible that Shooter wrote the scene to be an accident, Bob Hall drew it to be deliberate, and since the point of the arc was the dissolution of Hank and Janet's relationship Shooter didn't object to it because it worked better than it being an accident.

* WhyFandomCantHaveNiceThings: When Jim Shooter wrote Avengers #213, where Pym attacked Jan (something that he NeverLiveItDown), he received loads of mail complainings. He turned to Creator/StanLee for advise. Lee told him that he got a similar backlash about Spider-Man's love relations back in the day, and asked about the sales. They were growing. Lee told him that means that he should ignore the mails; if sales were growing it can only be because people like the stories, despite the casual complainers.