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* With a focus on deconstructing many of the tropes associated with heroism, ''VisualNovel/FullMetalDaemonMuramasa'' is ruthlessly cynical with any kind of idealism within the setting always coming with some kind of caveat, be it naivete or insanity, with any kind of idealistic action usually having some kind of nasty downside or price when looked at beyond a surface level. Even the storys central message of ThouShaltNotKill ends up both espoused and critiqued with seemingly no satisfactory solution other than embracing the darker aspects of humanity.
* The various entries and routes within the ''VisualNovel/ShinzaBanshoSeries'' pingpongs all over the place in terms of tone, but usually settles somewhere on the idealistic end. Some entries such as ''Literature/AvestaOfBlackAndWhite'' even manages to be on both ends of the scale simultaneously.
* The various entries and routes within the ''VisualNovel/ShinzaBanshoSeries'' pingpongs all over the place in terms of tone, but usually settles somewhere on the idealistic end. Some entries such as ''Literature/AvestaOfBlackAndWhite'' even manages to be on both ends of the scale simultaneously.
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* Three (in)famous games by [=ClockUp=] vary on the cynical part of the spectrum:
** ''Euphoria'': [[spoiler:ThePowerOfLove saves you and your lover [[EarnYourHappyEnding from the continuous torture.]]]]
** ''Maggot Baits'': Happier than ''Fraternite'' [[spoiler:due to the endings]], but not by too much.
** ''Fraternite'': Cynical and depressing all the way. [[spoiler:No matter what ending you get, you can't save anybody.]]
** ''Euphoria'': [[spoiler:ThePowerOfLove saves you and your lover [[EarnYourHappyEnding from the continuous torture.]]]]
** ''Maggot Baits'': Happier than ''Fraternite'' [[spoiler:due to the endings]], but not by too much.
** ''Fraternite'': Cynical and depressing all the way. [[spoiler:No matter what ending you get, you can't save anybody.]]
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I'm sure someone can clean this up. I feel like it could've been written better.
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* The first route of ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' starring Saber is firmly on the idealistic side, playing out almost like a stereotypical "Good triumphs over evil" story. The second route sees [[TheHero Emiya Shirou's]] ideals challenged and shows that his way of thinking is severely flawed, slipping into cynicism while still maintaining bits of idealism that with good intentions, maybe things will turn out for the best. The final route has Shirou's ideals completely abandoned as he becomes cynical over what he's doing, and the story shows that unfortunately, being idealistic isn't always right. In short, the routes go from firmly idealistic to firmly cynical.
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* ''Franchise/{{Danganronpa}}'':
** ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaTriggerHappyHavoc'' seems to be near the middle but leans toward the idealistic. While it's certainly not above showing anyone can die and anyone is capable of murder, [[SympatheticMurderer it also drives home that the people involved often have understandable motivations and reasons for doing so, even if they know it's wrong]], and that [[AssholeVictim not all victims are innocent]]. At its core, the series is about the importance of holding onto hope even in the worst times, and the negative effects of despair. [[spoiler: In the end, even when shown that the world outside is [[CrapsackWorld a violent hellscape]], the survivors choose to escape anyway.]]
** ''VisualNovel/Danganronpa2GoodbyeDespair'' takes it up a notch with [[spoiler: TheReveal that all of the students used to be members of Ultimate Despair, the most violent terrorist group in history. However, after they were captured, they were placed in a virtual reality therapy program to give them new memories and a chance to start over. This was screwed up thanks to the machinations of the BigBad from the previous game, but five of them manage to escape with their memories intact. While the others are left comatose, it's heavily implied that there's a chance they could be restored.]]
** ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaV3KillingHarmony'' pushes things much further toward cynicism. First with [[spoiler: TheReveal that, with just six of them left alive, they manage to reach the exit to the facility they're trapped in...only to learn that they're the final survivors of the human race, stranded on a ruined Earth after a meteor impact. It's enough to drive many of them past the DespairEventHorizon and into a suicidal depression.]] And second with [[spoiler: the reveal that it's all a lie. Not only is humanity fine, they're glued to their seats to watch the killing game the students are participating in. [[TrumanShowPlot The whole thing is a TV show]] [[LongRunners in its 53rd season.]] Before their memories were altered, the students themselves were fans of the show and ''actively chose to participate,'' with interview videos showing them as misanthropic and violent.]] Of course, this should all to be taken with a grain of salt, since it's made clear that [[spoiler: the BigBad could be lying about everything. Indeed, the survivors take the show down in the end and escape the facility as themselves, complete with a RayOfHopeEnding.]]
** ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaTriggerHappyHavoc'' seems to be near the middle but leans toward the idealistic. While it's certainly not above showing anyone can die and anyone is capable of murder, [[SympatheticMurderer it also drives home that the people involved often have understandable motivations and reasons for doing so, even if they know it's wrong]], and that [[AssholeVictim not all victims are innocent]]. At its core, the series is about the importance of holding onto hope even in the worst times, and the negative effects of despair. [[spoiler: In the end, even when shown that the world outside is [[CrapsackWorld a violent hellscape]], the survivors choose to escape anyway.]]
** ''VisualNovel/Danganronpa2GoodbyeDespair'' takes it up a notch with [[spoiler: TheReveal that all of the students used to be members of Ultimate Despair, the most violent terrorist group in history. However, after they were captured, they were placed in a virtual reality therapy program to give them new memories and a chance to start over. This was screwed up thanks to the machinations of the BigBad from the previous game, but five of them manage to escape with their memories intact. While the others are left comatose, it's heavily implied that there's a chance they could be restored.]]
** ''VisualNovel/DanganronpaV3KillingHarmony'' pushes things much further toward cynicism. First with [[spoiler: TheReveal that, with just six of them left alive, they manage to reach the exit to the facility they're trapped in...only to learn that they're the final survivors of the human race, stranded on a ruined Earth after a meteor impact. It's enough to drive many of them past the DespairEventHorizon and into a suicidal depression.]] And second with [[spoiler: the reveal that it's all a lie. Not only is humanity fine, they're glued to their seats to watch the killing game the students are participating in. [[TrumanShowPlot The whole thing is a TV show]] [[LongRunners in its 53rd season.]] Before their memories were altered, the students themselves were fans of the show and ''actively chose to participate,'' with interview videos showing them as misanthropic and violent.]] Of course, this should all to be taken with a grain of salt, since it's made clear that [[spoiler: the BigBad could be lying about everything. Indeed, the survivors take the show down in the end and escape the facility as themselves, complete with a RayOfHopeEnding.]]
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* The ''Franchise/AceAttorney'' series are very, very strongly on idealism's side, as the characters and games always believe in doing the right thing in court, on [[JusticeWillPrevail pursuing the truth and justice above everything else and on how doing so always end up bringing happiness to others.]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids Also, chances are, anyone who laughs or mocks at the protagonists for being "too naïve" or "too inexperienced" because of their beliefs]] [[SillyRabbitCynicismIsForLosers will either realize the mistake of their ways in the end or will be proven to be the villains of the case at hand.]] [[BreadEggsBreadedEggs Or both.]]
** The nature of the law is examined in several cases, asking whether [[ToBeLawfulOrGood one should follow the law or follow their heart]]. This is particularly poignant at the end of ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', where the BigBad says "the law is absolute", whereas the good guys [[ShutUpHannibal throw it back in their face]] by saying that the law is always changing based on what people think is good. Thus, it argues that in the decision on whether ToBeLawfulOrGood, "good" is always the right choice, painting an idealistic look at the law and human nature.
** The cynical parts of the series are when people exploit the law for their own means. This is examined in ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]'' and ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneySpiritOfJustice Spirit of Justice]]''. The former has the "dark age of the law" coming from the public at large not trusting the law anymore after a series of cynical lawmakers decided that "the ends justify the means" and started ignoring it to get ahead. The latter is [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny an oppressive state]] where just defending an innocent person could get you the death penalty because the people in charge want to hold onto power by any means necessary, and LaResistance is fighting against this oppression. In both games, the ones fighting against this oppression and cynicism are the idealistic heroes.
* ''VisualNovel/SilverCrisis'' has a huge part of the story focus on whether Strength comes from raw power, or from your own will/mindset and the help of others. The Scale slides towards the Cynical Side for most of the plot, with moments such as Lucas’s constant losing streak and status of being [[TheLoad a burden to Lucario]], Silver and Ganondorf’s Overwhelming Power, and [[spoiler:the Corruption of Lucario’s former trainer in pursuit of this]] leaning on the side of “Raw Power means everything”. [[spoiler:But by the end of the story, the scale lands firmly on the Idealistic side, showing that the trust Lucas and Lucario had for one another is what truly defeated Silver, as well as Lucas’s strength of heart and willingness to better himself being what allows him to truly unlock his hidden power and become truly strong.]]
* ''VisualNovel/SwanSong'' starts off very, very cynical and keeps going downhill, with worse and worse actions being taken and more and more tragedy happening as it progresses. While some heroic characters exist, don't expect them to actually make anything better. [[spoiler:Until the true ending, where things are hopeful and finally improving, at least a little]].
* While ''VisualNovel/MuvLuvUnlimited'' is mixed but ultimately idealistic, its sequel, ''VisualNovel/MuvLuvAlternative'', as well as anything else that takes place in the ''Unlimited'' verse, is very cynical and painful, dealing with [[spoiler:nationalist humans waging a civil war]] and actually fighting the BETA after them being hyped up but unseen in ''Unlimited''. Rather than learning that humanity is losing miserably against them, you're seeing it firsthand, and only very rarely does something actually go well. In the end, [[spoiler:it's on a mixed note. The BETA's leader has been removed from Earth and valuable information has been uncovered about them, but the moon and Mars are still heavily populated by them and there's 10^37 (or 10000000000000000000000000000000000000) total other worlds the BETA inhabit. Yuuko estimates that an additional 30 years has been bought for humanity as a whole by the events of Alternative, too.]]
* ''VisualNovel/SongsAndFlowers'', while it can be mixed and does delve into serious subjects, particularly [[spoiler: the discovery that the protagonist's MissingMom was actually murdered]], it's much closer to the idealistic end with its emphasis on [[ThePowerOfFriendship friendship]], [[ThePowerOfLove love]], [[YouAreNotAlone support]], and [[YouAreBetterThanYouThinkYouAre personal growth]].
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** The nature of the law is examined in several cases, asking whether [[ToBeLawfulOrGood one should follow the law or follow their heart]]. This is particularly poignant at the end of ''VisualNovel/ApolloJusticeAceAttorney'', where the BigBad says "the law is absolute", whereas the good guys [[ShutUpHannibal throw it back in their face]] by saying that the law is always changing based on what people think is good. Thus, it argues that in the decision on whether ToBeLawfulOrGood, "good" is always the right choice, painting an idealistic look at the law and human nature.
** The cynical parts of the series are when people exploit the law for their own means. This is examined in ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies Dual Destinies]]'' and ''[[VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneySpiritOfJustice Spirit of Justice]]''. The former has the "dark age of the law" coming from the public at large not trusting the law anymore after a series of cynical lawmakers decided that "the ends justify the means" and started ignoring it to get ahead. The latter is [[PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny an oppressive state]] where just defending an innocent person could get you the death penalty because the people in charge want to hold onto power by any means necessary, and LaResistance is fighting against this oppression. In both games, the ones fighting against this oppression and cynicism are the idealistic heroes.
* ''VisualNovel/SilverCrisis'' has a huge part of the story focus on whether Strength comes from raw power, or from your own will/mindset and the help of others. The Scale slides towards the Cynical Side for most of the plot, with moments such as Lucas’s constant losing streak and status of being [[TheLoad a burden to Lucario]], Silver and Ganondorf’s Overwhelming Power, and [[spoiler:the Corruption of Lucario’s former trainer in pursuit of this]] leaning on the side of “Raw Power means everything”. [[spoiler:But by the end of the story, the scale lands firmly on the Idealistic side, showing that the trust Lucas and Lucario had for one another is what truly defeated Silver, as well as Lucas’s strength of heart and willingness to better himself being what allows him to truly unlock his hidden power and become truly strong.]]
* ''VisualNovel/SwanSong'' starts off very, very cynical and keeps going downhill, with worse and worse actions being taken and more and more tragedy happening as it progresses. While some heroic characters exist, don't expect them to actually make anything better. [[spoiler:Until the true ending, where things are hopeful and finally improving, at least a little]].
* While ''VisualNovel/MuvLuvUnlimited'' is mixed but ultimately idealistic, its sequel, ''VisualNovel/MuvLuvAlternative'', as well as anything else that takes place in the ''Unlimited'' verse, is very cynical and painful, dealing with [[spoiler:nationalist humans waging a civil war]] and actually fighting the BETA after them being hyped up but unseen in ''Unlimited''. Rather than learning that humanity is losing miserably against them, you're seeing it firsthand, and only very rarely does something actually go well. In the end, [[spoiler:it's on a mixed note. The BETA's leader has been removed from Earth and valuable information has been uncovered about them, but the moon and Mars are still heavily populated by them and there's 10^37 (or 10000000000000000000000000000000000000) total other worlds the BETA inhabit. Yuuko estimates that an additional 30 years has been bought for humanity as a whole by the events of Alternative, too.]]
* ''VisualNovel/SongsAndFlowers'', while it can be mixed and does delve into serious subjects, particularly [[spoiler: the discovery that the protagonist's MissingMom was actually murdered]], it's much closer to the idealistic end with its emphasis on [[ThePowerOfFriendship friendship]], [[ThePowerOfLove love]], [[YouAreNotAlone support]], and [[YouAreBetterThanYouThinkYouAre personal growth]].
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