Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Series / TheWhitePrincess

Go To

OR

Added: 540

Changed: 2013

Removed: 964

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cleanup. Fixing indentation and commenting out zce, Fan Vid should be on the 'vid''s page. Foreshadowing doesn't apply — treating this as a discrete work, Arthur does not die in the timeframe of the show. Get Thee To A Nunnery isn't literally about being exiled to a nunnery, it's about words changing meaning thru time. More complaining on Historical Villain Upgrade


* BaitAndSwitch: After an outbreak of the sweating sickness in London, Lizzie orders the treasury guards to kick the door down so the money can be distributed as alms to the sick. Bishop Mortimer orders them to stop and another guard pushes the two men away...then promptly hacks the padlock off the door with an axe.

to:

* BaitAndSwitch: After BaitAndSwitch:
**After
an outbreak of the sweating sickness in London, Lizzie orders the treasury guards to kick the door down so the money can be distributed as alms to the sick. Bishop Mortimer orders them to stop and another guard pushes the two men away...then promptly hacks the padlock off the door with an axe.



* ConsummationCounterfeit: Henry VII, having already raped Elizabeth prior, takes a knife to their wedding bed and slices her foot as proof that the marriage was consummated that night.



* EgocentricallyReligious: Margaret Beaufort is ALL about this. Anything she does, including [[spoiler: murdering two innocent boys]], is always "God's Will."

to:

* EgocentricallyReligious: Margaret Beaufort is ALL about this. Anything she does, including [[spoiler: murdering two innocent boys]], is always "God's Will."" Lampshaded by her husband, who snarks that God's will conveniently always aligns with hers.



* EveryoneHasStandards: Jasper Tudor is appalled when he learns Margaret Beaufort [[spoiler: orchestrated the murder of the Princes in the Tower]].
-->'''Margaret Beaufort''': [[spoiler: They were Yorks!]]
-->'''Jasper Tudor''': [[spoiler: They were CHILDREN!]]

to:

* EveryoneHasStandards: EveryoneHasStandards:
**
Jasper Tudor might be loyal to Henry, is appalled when he learns Margaret Beaufort [[spoiler: orchestrated the murder of the Princes in the Tower]].
-->'''Margaret
Tower to help put Henry on the throne]].
--->'''Margaret
Beaufort''': [[spoiler: They were Yorks!]]
-->'''Jasper
Yorks!]]\\
'''Jasper
Tudor''': [[spoiler: They were CHILDREN!]]



* FanVid: If you look for this series online, be prepared to sift through a ''lot'' of musical montages.



* FreudianTrio: Cecily as Id, Elizabeth as Ego and Maggie as Superego.

to:

* %%* FreudianTrio: Cecily as Id, Elizabeth as Ego and Maggie as Superego.



* ForeShadowing: The death of Arthur, Prince of Wales
** During an public execution, Henry tells his son that he will [[HarsherInHindsight never wear the crown]] if he cannot watch a traitor be beheaded. His [[UsefulNotes/HenryVIII little brother]] seems less distraught.
** Margaret takes Henry junior on a pilgrimage, which he obviously finds boring. She explains that he is the second son, so while Arthur will be king, [[HilariousInHindsight Henry may be Pope]].
** Queens Elizabeth curse the male line of [[ExactWords whomever killed the York Princes]] to die out. [[UsefulNotes/ElizabethI It does]]. Eventually.
** Hinting at Lizzie's FaceHeelTurn, she says to Henry that she will never let anyone get between the two of them and their children.



* GetTheeToANunnery: Happens to Elizabeth of York's mother, Elizabeth Woodville after she is usurped by Margaret.



* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Or rather, a historical version of AdaptationalBadass, applied toward Elizabeth of York. Real Elizabeth is relatively unremarkable, as far as her own actions go - she seems to have been a typical queen consort of the time, performing her representative duties and not meddling in politics. It's pretty ridiculous to imagine her doing most of the interesting stuff she gets up to in the show.
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Author of the book this show is based on isn't the biggest fan of Tudors and it shows.
** Henry VII actually doesn't come of that badly, with two major exceptions - rape of Elizabeth of York, and his affair with Catherine Gordon. The former is done under the flimsy excuse of "Yorks proving their daughter is fertile", and mostly is there to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after wedding (premature birth or consensual sex are apparently out of question for some reason). The latter is pretty jarring considering historical Henry's lack of interest in extramarital affairs, least of all with the former wife of his enemy and a friend of his wife (yes, Elizabeth and Catherine Gordon were actually friends). In fact, the marriage of Henry and Elizabeth was by all accounts happy and remarkably peaceful.
** Poor Margaret Beaufort gets the worst of it. She was undoubtedly ambitious - she supported her son in his efforts to gain the throne and after he became king, she demanded to be treated as a queen, pushing Elizabeth of York to the wayside. However, other than that, she is mostly remembered as a kind, pious and intelligent woman who used her considerable influence on the court for good. She supported artists and academics, and when Cecily of York married a commoner against the will of her son, she spoke in her favor to Henry. Definitely a far cry from the crazy, shrewish religious fanatic and effectively a villain of the story this show portrays her as...
** What's known of Cecily of York has next to nothing to do with the character presented. It is TruthInTelevision that she was very close to Margaret Beuafort, as Margaret later convinced Henry VII to forgive Cecily for having an unapproved (second) love-marriage with an essential peasant. But she was not likely envious and spiteful to Elizabeth of York. Her marriage seems to have indeed been PerfectlyArrangedMarriage, from her later words regarding her husband's death, but there was no reported incident at her wedding. She also contrary to a throw-away line in later episodes visited her mother the ''most'' of Elizabeth's surviving children.

to:

* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Or rather, a historical version of AdaptationalBadass, applied toward HistoricalBadassUpgrade: The real Elizabeth of York. Real Elizabeth is relatively unremarkable, as far as her own actions go - she York seems to have been a typical queen consort of the time, performing her representative duties and not meddling in politics. It's pretty ridiculous to imagine her doing most Here she's a major political player who has a hand in many of the interesting stuff she gets up to in the show.
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Author
major events of the book this show is based on isn't the biggest fan of Tudors and it shows.
**
Henry VII actually doesn't come of VII's early reign.
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade:
** Historical record shows
that badly, with two major exceptions - rape of Henry VII's marriage to Elizabeth of York, York seems to have been happy and his remarkably peaceful, with no extramarital affairs. While their relationship here largely reflects that, it starts off with him raping her. He also later has an affair with Catherine Gordon. The former is done under the flimsy excuse of "Yorks proving their daughter is fertile", and mostly is there to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after wedding (premature birth or consensual sex are apparently out of question for some reason). The latter is pretty jarring considering historical Henry's lack of interest in extramarital affairs, least of all with the former wife of his enemy and a friend of his wife (yes, Elizabeth and Catherine Gordon were actually friends). In fact, the marriage of Henry and Elizabeth was by all accounts happy and remarkably peaceful.
Gordon.
** Poor Margaret Beaufort gets the worst of it. She was undoubtedly ambitious - she supported her son in his efforts to gain the throne and after he became king, she demanded to be treated as a queen, pushing Elizabeth of York to the wayside. However, other than that, she is mostly remembered as a kind, pious and intelligent woman who used her considerable influence on the court for good. She supported artists and academics, and when Cecily of York married a commoner against the will of her son, she spoke in her favor to Henry. Definitely a far cry from the crazy, shrewish religious fanatic and effectively a villain of the story this show portrays her as...
** What's known of Cecily of York has next to nothing to do with the character presented. It is TruthInTelevision true that she was very close to Margaret Beuafort, as Margaret later convinced Henry VII to forgive Cecily for having an unapproved (second) love-marriage with an essential peasant. But she was not likely envious and spiteful to Elizabeth of York. Her marriage seems to have indeed been PerfectlyArrangedMarriage, from her later words regarding her husband's death, but there was no reported incident at her wedding. She also also, contrary to a throw-away line in later episodes episodes, visited her mother the ''most'' of Elizabeth's surviving children.

Changed: 3549

Removed: 4898

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trimming the Artistic License History entry to tone down negativity, first person writing (!), redundancy, and speculation. Hollywood Costuming is a zce and should be its own entry.


** [[HollywoodCostuming Costumes. That's where we start.]]
** While we can't ever say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, actual, credible historians all agree that it's unlikely as Henry was known to be a ‘most prudent’ king, who did not act impetuously; in fact at least one historian has made a subtle dig at Phillipa Gregory for her inaccurate portrayal of both Henry VII and his relationship with Elizabeth of York.
*** For starters, it's unlikely he would ever raped Elizabeth, even as a weird flexing of power over her, as despite modern perception, royalty and nobility were never alone, even when they were in their bedchambers, and rumours about actions and conversations tended to be easily spread by gossiping servants. Henry VII wasn't foolish, he knew that the Yorkists were only compliant because of his marriage to Elizabeth, if word got out that Henry was mistreating Elizabeth, the Yorkists would have been scandalised - and angry Yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It's also worth knowing that contemporary belief stressed the necessity of female enjoyment in the act of sexual intercourse in order for conception to take place. The female body, considered to be a poor shadow or imperfectly formed version of its male counterpart, could only conceive if orgasm took place, during which a female ‘seed’ was emitted to mix with that of the male; adding to the idea that if Henry was trying to impregnate Elizabeth, he would've had to ensure that she enjoyed the act and received pleasure, something that wouldn't happen if he raped her.
*** In the books, Henry raping Elizabeth is used to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. Historians agree that there are only two credible theories: either Arthur was born prematurely, or Henry and Elizabeth consummated the marriage after a verbal promise of marriage or ‘hand fasting’ which was seen as a binding agreement that was often viewed as enough to justify physical relations. Aside from those two theories, it's possible that with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months? In that time period, up until the 'quickening', which is when an expecting mother first feels her baby moving inside her, the only thing women had to discern pregnancy was multiple missed periods and symptoms. But of course, Elizabeth knows she's pregnant because of her magic or something.
*** The real Margaret Beaufort was what we would consider to be an abused child. She was married and impregnated at age twelve and was so small and slight that her son’s birth when she was thirteen nearly killed her. Needless to say, Margaret would've been very against the notion of "testing Elizabeth's fertility" by having her son rape her.
*** To continue, a letter written by Henry VII's own hand state that while possessing his own doubts and fears, he'd been talked into delaying his daughter's marriage to the King of Scotland as Elizabeth and Margaret had fears that if the marriage were concluded, Princess Margaret would have to be immediately sent to Scotland, in which case they feared that the King of Scots would not wait, but injure her, and endanger her health. Princess Margaret’s marriage was actually opposed by Henry himself, for the reason of her extreme youth and “delicate” health at the time, once again destroying the notion of him being willing to harm Elizabeth. The fact that Margaret Beaufort herself was so against the idea of her granddaughter's marriage is understandable as unsurprisingly, there is evidence her being traumatised by her precocious pregnancy with Henry and that her experience of sex at such an early age made the thought of it completely abhorrent. A religious book that she later bequeathed to Christ’s College, Cambridge, contained poignant question written by Margaret Beaufort herself: was it a sin to loathe sex?
*** It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it.
*** Lastly, Phillipa Gregory's reasoning is nothing short of InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility...by Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that getting a princess pregnant out of wedlock would have caused, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?
** Elizabeth of York was not in love with, let alone lost her virginity to Richard III. The real Elizabeth wouldn't have had much cause to like him very much considering what he did to her family: he took the throne that rightfully belonged to her brother, imprisoned the Princes in the Tower, which directly lead to their disappearances, with foreign contemporaries believing that Richard had killed them, and declared her parents’ marriage invalid, meaning he publicly shamed her mother for being no more than a royal whore and making her and all of her siblings bastards, which was about the lowest rank anyone could legally be. Before he did all of this he ordered the execution of her uncle Anthony Woodville and her half-brother Richard Grey, from whom I assume she might have been close with, based on evidence that show both these men actively involved in the childhood of Edward IV’s children. Of course rumour of marriage that cause everyone to respond in disgust and Richard to do something that King’s never do… stand in front of his lords/citizens and say the rumor was a complete lie and he that he would never consider such a thing.
** Elizabeth Woodville didn't conspire against Henry VII. It just wouldn't make sense - her sons were imprisoned, most likely dead, and she could ensure a good future for her daughters by collaborating with the new regime. We know for a fact that she and Margaret Beaufort agreed on a marriage of Elizabeth and Henry, creating an alliance against Richard III - the man who dethroned one of her sons, locked both boys in the Tower and it's possible he had them murdered.

to:

** [[HollywoodCostuming Costumes. That's where we start.]]
** While we can't ever say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, actual, credible historians all agree that it's unlikely as this is unlikely. Henry was known to be a ‘most prudent’ king, who did not act impetuously; in fact at least one historian has made a subtle dig at Phillipa Gregory for her inaccurate portrayal of both Henry VII and his relationship with Elizabeth of York.
*** For starters, it's unlikely he would ever raped Elizabeth, even as a weird flexing of power over her, as despite modern perception, royalty and nobility were never alone, even when they were in their bedchambers, and rumours about actions and conversations tended to be easily spread by gossiping servants. Henry VII wasn't foolish, he knew that the Yorkists were only compliant because of his marriage to Elizabeth, if word got out that Henry was mistreating Elizabeth, the Yorkists
impetuously. It would have been scandalised - and angry Yorkists was the last thing Henry an extremely consequential scandal that would want. It's also worth knowing that contemporary belief stressed the necessity of female enjoyment in the act of sexual intercourse in order for conception to take place. The female body, considered to be a poor shadow or imperfectly formed version of its male counterpart, could only conceive if orgasm took place, during which a female ‘seed’ was emitted to mix with that of the male; adding to the idea that if Henry was trying to impregnate Elizabeth, he would've had to ensure that she enjoyed the act and received pleasure, something that wouldn't happen if he raped her.
*** In the books, Henry raping Elizabeth
have enraged York loyalists. Though this is used to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. Historians agree that early, there are only two credible theories: more likely explanations[[note]] either Arthur was born prematurely, or Henry and Elizabeth consummated the marriage after a verbal promise of marriage or ‘hand fasting’ which was seen as a binding agreement that was often viewed as enough to justify physical relations. Aside from those two theories, it's possible relations[[/note]]. The notion that with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months? In that time period, up until the 'quickening', which is when an expecting mother first feels her baby moving inside her, the only thing women had to discern pregnancy was multiple missed periods and symptoms. But of course, Elizabeth knows she's pregnant because of her magic or something.
*** The real
Margaret Beaufort was what we would consider to be an abused child. She have considered "testing Elizabeth's fertility" is also unlikely, as she was married and impregnated at age twelve and was so small and slight that her son’s birth when she was thirteen nearly killed her. Needless to say, Margaret would've been very against the notion of "testing Elizabeth's fertility" by having her son rape her.
*** To continue, a letter written by Henry VII's own hand state that while possessing his own doubts and fears, he'd been talked into delaying his daughter's marriage to the King of Scotland as Elizabeth and Margaret had fears that if the marriage were concluded, Princess Margaret would have to be immediately sent to Scotland, in which case they feared that the King of Scots would not wait, but injure her, and endanger her health. Princess Margaret’s marriage was actually opposed by Henry himself, for the reason of her extreme youth and “delicate” health at the time, once again destroying the notion of him being willing to harm Elizabeth. The fact that Margaret Beaufort herself was so against the idea of her granddaughter's marriage is understandable as unsurprisingly, there is evidence her being traumatised by her precocious pregnancy with Henry and that her experience of sex at such an early age made the thought of it completely abhorrent. A religious book that she later bequeathed to Christ’s College, Cambridge, contained poignant question written by Margaret Beaufort herself: was it a sin to loathe sex?
*** It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it.
*** Lastly, Phillipa Gregory's reasoning is nothing short of InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility...by Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that getting a princess pregnant out of wedlock would have caused, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?
** Elizabeth of York was not in love with, let alone lost her virginity to Richard III. The real Elizabeth wouldn't have had much cause to like him very much considering what he did to her family: he took the throne that rightfully belonged to her brother, imprisoned the Princes in the Tower, which Tower (which directly lead to their disappearances, with foreign contemporaries believing that Richard had killed them, them), and declared her parents’ marriage invalid, meaning he publicly shamed her mother for being no more than a royal whore invalid and making her she and all of her siblings bastards, which was about the lowest rank anyone could legally be. Before he did all of this he ordered the execution of her uncle Anthony Woodville and her half-brother bastards. Richard Grey, from whom I assume she might have been close with, based on evidence that show both these men actively involved in the childhood of Edward IV’s children. Of course III also publicly denied their rumour of marriage that cause everyone to respond in disgust and Richard to do something that King’s never do… stand in front of his lords/citizens and say the rumor was a complete lie and he that he would never consider such a thing.
marriage.
** Elizabeth Woodville didn't conspire against Henry VII. It just wouldn't make sense - her sons were imprisoned, most likely dead, and she could ensure a good future for her daughters by collaborating with the new regime. We know for a fact that The betrothal she and Margaret Beaufort agreed on a marriage of for Elizabeth and Henry, creating Henry benefited her, as it created an alliance against Richard III - the man who dethroned one of her sons, locked both boys in the Tower and it's possible he had them murdered.III.



** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a UsefulNotes/{{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century. To top it off, the bethrothal was actually arranged at Medina del Campo, not even in Andalusia, and in 1489, three years before the Alhambra's fall.
** Neither Margaret Beaufort, nor Elizabeth would be allowed to sit on the Privy Council, that was the king’s council comprised of officials such as the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Treasurer as well as other major Nobles of the Realm. Both Queen and Queen Mother would have been more busy visiting Abbeys and giving to charity rather than running the government which was, you know, the kings job.
** While she was rather charitable, Elizabeth of York would not have been throwing money to the people who dying of the sweating sickness, as England had been left BANKRUPT after the reigns of her father and uncle.
** The series has Elizabeth Woodville on her deathbed, who is shown to have died after Jasper Tudor. In fact, Elizabeth Woodville died three years BEFORE Jasper Tudor. She died in 1492 while Jasper died in 1495.

to:

** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a UsefulNotes/{{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century. To top it off, the bethrothal was actually arranged at Medina del Campo, not even in Andalusia, and in 1489, three years before the Alhambra's fall.
1489.
** Neither Margaret Beaufort, nor Elizabeth would be allowed to sit on the Privy Council, that was the king’s council comprised of officials such as the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Treasurer as well as other major Nobles of the Realm. Both Queen and Queen Mother would have been more busy visiting Abbeys and giving to charity rather than running the government which was, you know, the kings job.
government.
** While she was rather charitable, Elizabeth of York would not have been throwing money to the people who dying of the sweating sickness, as England had been left BANKRUPT bankrupt after the reigns of her father and uncle.
** The series has Elizabeth Woodville on her deathbed, who is shown to have died dying after Jasper Tudor. In fact, Elizabeth Woodville died three years BEFORE Jasper Tudor. She Tudor, where this happened the opposite way in real life (she died in 1492 while Jasper died in 1495.1495).

Added: 193

Changed: 412

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


->''"The right is not given, Henry. It is taken. It is taken by blood, by murder. Where is God in that?"''
-->-- '''Elizabeth'''



In this series, the Wars of the Roses is effectively ended by the marriage of Henry VII (Jacob Collins-Levy) and Elizabeth of York (Creator/JodieComer), which unites the houses of York and Lancaster... which wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that said houses aren't exactly on good terms with each other, threatening to ruin both their marriage and the kingdom.

to:

In this series, the UsefulNotes/{{the Wars of the Roses Roses}} is effectively ended by the marriage of Henry VII (Jacob Collins-Levy) ([[Creator/JacobCollinsLevy Jacob Collins-Levy]]) and Elizabeth of York (Creator/JodieComer), which unites the houses of York and Lancaster... Lancaster into UsefulNotes/TheHouseOfTudor... which wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that said houses aren't exactly on good terms with each other, threatening other. Their respective mothers, Margaret Beufort (Creator/MichelleFairley) and Elizabeth Woodville (Creator/EssieDavis) use their children to ruin both plot and scheme; a rival claimant to the throne, Perkin Warbeck (Creator/PatrickGibson) comes out of the woodwork; and their marriage has its own ups and downs. All this threatens the kingdom.
stability of their recently reforged kingdom.

Followed by ''Series/TheSpanishPrincess'', set a generation later.

Added: 276

Removed: 276

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ArmorPiercingSlap: A furious Lizzie gives Henry one of these after he [[MaritalRapeLicense forces her to have sex with him to ensure she can give him an heir]] and then [[PostRapeTaunt taunts her by claiming he imagined he was bedding her sister]] to make the task bearable.


Added DiffLines:

* RageBreakingPoint: A furious Lizzie gives Henry a tight slap after he [[MaritalRapeLicense forces her to have sex with him to ensure she can give him an heir]] and then [[PostRapeTaunt taunts her by claiming he imagined he was bedding her sister]] to make the task bearable.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Up To Eleven is a defunct trope


* AscendedExtra: The central characters of this series are King Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. Henry was a small child when ''The White Queen'' started and appeared only sporadically until the later episodes. Elizabeth wasn't even ''[[UpToEleven born]]'' until the second episode, and doesn't get a major speaking role until the eighth.

to:

* AscendedExtra: The central characters of this series are King Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. Henry was a small child when ''The White Queen'' started and appeared only sporadically until the later episodes. Elizabeth wasn't even ''[[UpToEleven born]]'' ''born'' until the second episode, and doesn't get a major speaking role until the eighth.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a UsefulNotes/{{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century.

to:

** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a UsefulNotes/{{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century. To top it off, the bethrothal was actually arranged at Medina del Campo, not even in Andalusia, and in 1489, three years before the Alhambra's fall.

Changed: 659

Removed: 628

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Richard III was not 'buried alive' in a shallow grave. Following his death, Richard's body was stripped naked and taken to Leicester where it was put on public display for two days (it was common practice for a royal body to be put on display as proof of death), before being buried in the choir of the Greyfriars at Leicester and in 1495, ten years after the burial, Henry VII paid for a marble and alabaster monument to mark Richard's grave, Sir George Buck wrote that it was "a fair tomb of mingled colour marble adorned with Richard's image".
*** The discovery of Richard's skeleton in the 2010's confirmed all of the above.
** The show justifies continued rivalry between immediate families of Elizabeth and Henry by claiming one of her brothers survived. In reality, the man who claimed to be him was revealed to actually be named Perkin Warbeck and was most certainly an impostor, for several reasons.
*** The series use of Perkin Warbeck as the real Richard of Shrewsbury one BIG issue: Warbeck himself lays the blame for the murder of his "brother”, Edward V, directly at Richard III’s feet, and claims to only have escaped because an unnamed “lord” felt sorry for him; which clashes with the show having the murders being done by Margaret Beaufort.

to:

** Richard III was not 'buried alive' in a shallow grave. Following his death, Richard's body was stripped naked and taken to Leicester where it was put on public display for two days (it was common practice for a royal body to be put on display as proof of death), before being buried in the choir of the Greyfriars at Leicester and in 1495, ten years after the burial, Henry VII paid for a marble and alabaster monument to mark Richard's grave, Sir George Buck wrote that it was "a fair tomb of mingled colour marble adorned with Richard's image".
***
image". The discovery of Richard's skeleton in the 2010's confirmed all of the above.
this.
** The show justifies continued rivalry between immediate families of Elizabeth and Henry by claiming one of her brothers survived. In reality, the man who claimed to be him was revealed to actually be named Perkin Warbeck and was most certainly an impostor, for several reasons.
***
reasons. The series use of Perkin using Warbeck as the real Richard of Shrewsbury has one BIG issue: Warbeck himself lays laid the blame for the murder of his "brother”, Edward V, directly at Richard III’s feet, and claims claimed to only have escaped because an unnamed “lord” felt sorry for him; which this clashes with the show having the murders murder being done by Margaret Beaufort.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a {{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century.

to:

** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a {{Romani}} UsefulNotes/{{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for.

to:

** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for. The dialogue identifies the place of the meeting as Granada's Alhambra but it is filmed in the Alcazar of Seville with no attempt to hide it. The Cathedral is seen despite being finished in 1507 only. The Spanish guards wear the armor of House Tyrell from ''Series/GameOfThrones''. The reception consists of the Princess and courtiers flashmob-dancing to [[TorosYFlamenco Flamenco]], a {{Romani}} dance from the mid-18th century.

Added: 87

Changed: 34

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The page I mentioned in that warning states we're not allowed to edit trope names and You Are Not My Father seems to be a former trope names


%%Make sure you have finished reading Administrivia/HowToWriteAnExample before editing.



* [[YouAreNotMyFather You Are Not My Mother]]: Said verbatim by Lizzie after Elizabeth ruins Prince Harry's enoblement by declaring that Prince Richard is alive and the true Duke of York.

to:

* [[YouAreNotMyFather You Are Not My Mother]]: YoureNotMyMother: Said almost verbatim by Lizzie after Elizabeth ruins Prince Harry's enoblement by declaring that Prince Richard is alive and the true Duke of York.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adult Fear is now a disambig


* AdultFear:
** Duchess Cecily Neville admits to Maggie she's afraid Richard, her last grandson, will die fighting in the same conflict that's already claimed his father, brother and uncles.
** Richard and Cathy Gordon have to face being separated from their infant son and [[spoiler: the very likely possibility he's been killed by Margaret Beaufort to get rid of another York claimant]].
** Richard Pole has to point out to Maggie that [[spoiler: her involvement in a plot to restore Richard to the throne could cost him and their son their lands, heads or both]].
** Henry and Elizabeth have to live with the prospect their actions and that of their mothers might have doomed their children to early graves.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** The discovery of Richard's skeleton in the 2010's confirmed all of the above.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not So Different has been renamed, and it needs to be dewicked/moved


* NotSoDifferent:

to:

* NotSoDifferent: NotSoDifferentRemark:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** In the show, Mary of Burgundy falls off her horse while racing Lord Strange across a field, and dies later the same day. In actuality, her riding accident occurred while she was hunting in the woods with her husband and knights of the court; her horse tripped and threw her into a ditch, then fell on top of her, and she died of her injuries ''several weeks'' later.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Obnoxious and personal. Adds nothing and doesn't belong.


*** The series use of Perkin Warbeck as the real Richard of Shrewsbury one BIG issue: Warbeck himself lays the blame for the murder of his "brother”, Edward V, directly at Richard III’s feet, and claims to only have escaped because an unnamed “lord” felt sorry for him; which clashes with the show having the murders being done by Margaret Beaufort. Sorry, Philippa, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

to:

*** The series use of Perkin Warbeck as the real Richard of Shrewsbury one BIG issue: Warbeck himself lays the blame for the murder of his "brother”, Edward V, directly at Richard III’s feet, and claims to only have escaped because an unnamed “lord” felt sorry for him; which clashes with the show having the murders being done by Margaret Beaufort. Sorry, Philippa, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->'''Elizabeth Woodville''': ''[to Margaret]'' I do not fear death. I have done my duty to God and when my time comes, he will reunite me with my dead. But there is fear in your eyes. What will you say to God when you see him? How will you explain all that blood on your hands?

to:

-->'''Elizabeth Woodville''': ''[to Margaret]'' I do not fear death. I have done my duty to God and when my time comes, he will reunite me with my dead.Edward. But there is fear in your eyes. What will you say to God when you see him? How will you explain all that blood on your hands?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AnguishedDeclarationOfLove: Lizzie begs Henry not to fight against the Yorkist army. Paranoid Henry simply assumes that he wants her to have him surrender the crown. Lizzie insists that she wants him to come back to her to an unconvinced Henry. Lizzie blurts out, "How can I prove I am with you, except to ask you not to die?"


Added DiffLines:

** What's known of Cecily of York has next to nothing to do with the character presented. It is TruthInTelevision that she was very close to Margaret Beuafort, as Margaret later convinced Henry VII to forgive Cecily for having an unapproved (second) love-marriage with an essential peasant. But she was not likely envious and spiteful to Elizabeth of York. Her marriage seems to have indeed been PerfectlyArrangedMarriage, from her later words regarding her husband's death, but there was no reported incident at her wedding. She also contrary to a throw-away line in later episodes visited her mother the ''most'' of Elizabeth's surviving children.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** There's no historical evidence that supports the claim the series made that Margaret Beaufort and Jasper Tudor were ever in love with each other. Their relationship was more akin to LikeBrotherAndSister as she had been the widow of his older brother Edmund and the mother of his nephew that he raised.

Added: 549

Changed: 1247

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It's extremely unlikely Elizabeth of York lost her virginity to Richard III. The real Elizabeth probably didn't even like him very much considering what he did to her little brothers. There were rumours of them possibly marrying for political reasons, but Richard himself vehemently opposed them, and either way they didn't seem to be particularly close.
** Elizabeth Woodwille most likely didn't conspire against Henry VII. It just wouldn't make sense - her sons were imprisoned, most likely dead, and she could ensure a good future for her daughters by collaborating with the new regime. We know for a fact that she and Margaret Beaufort agreed on a marriage of Elizabeth and Henry, creating an alliance against Richard III - the man who dethroned one of her sons, locked both boys in the Tower and it's possible he had them murdered.

to:

** It's extremely unlikely Elizabeth of York was not in love with, let alone lost her virginity to Richard III. The real Elizabeth probably didn't even wouldn't have had much cause to like him very much considering what he did to her little brothers. There were rumours of them possibly marrying for political reasons, but family: he took the throne that rightfully belonged to her brother, imprisoned the Princes in the Tower, which directly lead to their disappearances, with foreign contemporaries believing that Richard himself vehemently opposed had killed them, and either way they didn't seem declared her parents’ marriage invalid, meaning he publicly shamed her mother for being no more than a royal whore and making her and all of her siblings bastards, which was about the lowest rank anyone could legally be. Before he did all of this he ordered the execution of her uncle Anthony Woodville and her half-brother Richard Grey, from whom I assume she might have been close with, based on evidence that show both these men actively involved in the childhood of Edward IV’s children. Of course rumour of marriage that cause everyone to be particularly close.
respond in disgust and Richard to do something that King’s never do… stand in front of his lords/citizens and say the rumor was a complete lie and he that he would never consider such a thing.
** Elizabeth Woodwille most likely Woodville didn't conspire against Henry VII. It just wouldn't make sense - her sons were imprisoned, most likely dead, and she could ensure a good future for her daughters by collaborating with the new regime. We know for a fact that she and Margaret Beaufort agreed on a marriage of Elizabeth and Henry, creating an alliance against Richard III - the man who dethroned one of her sons, locked both boys in the Tower and it's possible he had them murdered.murdered.
** Richard III was not 'buried alive' in a shallow grave. Following his death, Richard's body was stripped naked and taken to Leicester where it was put on public display for two days (it was common practice for a royal body to be put on display as proof of death), before being buried in the choir of the Greyfriars at Leicester and in 1495, ten years after the burial, Henry VII paid for a marble and alabaster monument to mark Richard's grave, Sir George Buck wrote that it was "a fair tomb of mingled colour marble adorned with Richard's image".



** in real life Henry VII would’ve most definitely not approved of Lizzie throwing money to the people who dying of the sweating sickness, especially since the kingdom at the time was bankrupt.

to:

** in real life Henry VII would’ve most definitely While she was rather charitable, Elizabeth of York would not approved of Lizzie have been throwing money to the people who dying of the sweating sickness, especially since as England had been left BANKRUPT after the kingdom at the time was bankrupt.reigns of her father and uncle.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The real Margaret Beaufort was what we would consider to be an abused child. She was married and impregnated at age twelve and was so small and slight that her son’s birth when she was thirteen nearly killed her. Needless to say, Margaret would've been very against the notion of "testing Elizabeth's fertility" by having her son rape her.

to:

** *** The real Margaret Beaufort was what we would consider to be an abused child. She was married and impregnated at age twelve and was so small and slight that her son’s birth when she was thirteen nearly killed her. Needless to say, Margaret would've been very against the notion of "testing Elizabeth's fertility" by having her son rape her.

Added: 3692

Changed: 2653

Removed: 248

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Henry absolutely fought on the front-line: Actually, according to the accounts, during the Battle of Bosworth, Henry was on foot (not atop a horse, mind you) because he ‘wanted to be on foot in the midst of us’. Also according to Vergil (who interviewed several witnesses), Henry ‘withstood the attack longer than even his soldiers thought possible’. While it seems to have been considered exceptionally brave to fight on the front line to a modern audience, good commanders did NOT do so unless it made tactical sense or they had no choice. The Spanish ambassador’s comment about James IV of Scotland comes to mind, when he called James a “poor commander” because he always charged ahead of his army, despite the ambassador also admiring James bravery.


** While we can't say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, and that's that (MaritalRapeLicence was a thing), it's unlikely that it happened the way it did in the series. For starters, it's unlikely he would even touch her before the wedding, even as a weird flexing of power over her. If the word got out, Yorkists would be scandalized by his treatment of a princess - and angering Yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it. Lastly, their reasoning is nothing short of InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility...by Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that getting a princess pregnant out of wedlock would have caused, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?
*** As an aside, it's supposed to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. For one, he was probably born slightly prematurely - but also, with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months? Of course, Elizabeth knows because magic or something.

to:

** While we can't ever say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, and that's actual, credible historians all agree that (MaritalRapeLicence was a thing), it's unlikely that it happened the way it as Henry was known to be a ‘most prudent’ king, who did not act impetuously; in the series. fact at least one historian has made a subtle dig at Phillipa Gregory for her inaccurate portrayal of both Henry VII and his relationship with Elizabeth of York.
***
For starters, it's unlikely he would even touch her before the wedding, ever raped Elizabeth, even as a weird flexing of power over her. If her, as despite modern perception, royalty and nobility were never alone, even when they were in their bedchambers, and rumours about actions and conversations tended to be easily spread by gossiping servants. Henry VII wasn't foolish, he knew that the Yorkists were only compliant because of his marriage to Elizabeth, if word got out, out that Henry was mistreating Elizabeth, the Yorkists would be scandalized by his treatment of a princess have been scandalised - and angering angry Yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It's also worth knowing that contemporary belief stressed the necessity of female enjoyment in the act of sexual intercourse in order for conception to take place. The female body, considered to be a poor shadow or imperfectly formed version of its male counterpart, could only conceive if orgasm took place, during which a female ‘seed’ was emitted to mix with that of the male; adding to the idea that if Henry was trying to impregnate Elizabeth, he would've had to ensure that she enjoyed the act and received pleasure, something that wouldn't happen if he raped her.
*** In the books, Henry raping Elizabeth is used to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. Historians agree that there are only two credible theories: either Arthur was born prematurely, or Henry and Elizabeth consummated the marriage after a verbal promise of marriage or ‘hand fasting’ which was seen as a binding agreement that was often viewed as enough to justify physical relations. Aside from those two theories, it's possible that with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months? In that time period, up until the 'quickening', which is when an expecting mother first feels her baby moving inside her, the only thing women had to discern pregnancy was multiple missed periods and symptoms. But of course, Elizabeth knows she's pregnant because of her magic or something.
** The real Margaret Beaufort was what we would consider to be an abused child. She was married and impregnated at age twelve and was so small and slight that her son’s birth when she was thirteen nearly killed her. Needless to say, Margaret would've been very against the notion of "testing Elizabeth's fertility" by having her son rape her.
*** To continue, a letter written by Henry VII's own hand state that while possessing his own doubts and fears, he'd been talked into delaying his daughter's marriage to the King of Scotland as Elizabeth and Margaret had fears that if the marriage were concluded, Princess Margaret would have to be immediately sent to Scotland, in which case they feared that the King of Scots would not wait, but injure her, and endanger her health. Princess Margaret’s marriage was actually opposed by Henry himself, for the reason of her extreme youth and “delicate” health at the time, once again destroying the notion of him being willing to harm Elizabeth. The fact that Margaret Beaufort herself was so against the idea of her granddaughter's marriage is understandable as unsurprisingly, there is evidence her being traumatised by her precocious pregnancy with Henry and that her experience of sex at such an early age made the thought of it completely abhorrent. A religious book that she later bequeathed to Christ’s College, Cambridge, contained poignant question written by Margaret Beaufort herself: was it a sin to loathe sex?
***
It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it. it.
***
Lastly, their Phillipa Gregory's reasoning is nothing short of InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility...by Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that getting a princess pregnant out of wedlock would have caused, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?
*** As an aside, it's supposed to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. For one, he was probably born slightly prematurely - but also, with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months? Of course, Elizabeth knows because magic or something.
too?



** The show justifies continued rivalry between immediate families of Elizabeth and Henry by claiming one of her brothers survived. In reality, the man who claimed to be him was revealed to actually be named Perkin Warbeck and was most likely an impostor.

to:

** The show justifies continued rivalry between immediate families of Elizabeth and Henry by claiming one of her brothers survived. In reality, the man who claimed to be him was revealed to actually be named Perkin Warbeck and was most likely certainly an impostor.impostor, for several reasons.
*** The series use of Perkin Warbeck as the real Richard of Shrewsbury one BIG issue: Warbeck himself lays the blame for the murder of his "brother”, Edward V, directly at Richard III’s feet, and claims to only have escaped because an unnamed “lord” felt sorry for him; which clashes with the show having the murders being done by Margaret Beaufort. Sorry, Philippa, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too.



** Henry would never have fought on the frontline, he was an administrator, not a general. The closest he ever came to fighting was at Bosworth, when Richard managed to kill his standard bearer, planning of the battle was done by his uncle Jasper.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The series has Elizabeth Woodville on her deathbed, who is shown to have died after Jasper Tudor. In fact, Elizabeth Woodville died three years BEFORE Jasper Tudor. She died in 1492 while Jasper died in 1495.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* GoneHorriblyRight: Margaret is incredulous that Teddy is being freed so she stages a scene to get him back in the Tower. Her scene unfortunately gets real peasants riled up and makes the moderate Jack de la Pole to turn against the Tudors and rebel.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


* MightMakesRight: [[InvokedTrope Invoked]] by Lizzy in the finale. She tells Henry that the right of kings is taken and held by force. This means he can, nay ''must'', [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop kill her brother and cousin to secure his own power]].

to:

* MightMakesRight: [[InvokedTrope Invoked]] by Lizzy in the finale. She tells Henry that the right of kings is taken and held by force. This means he can, nay ''must'', [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop kill her brother and cousin to secure his own power]].power.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Neither Margaret Beaufort, nor Elizabeth would be allowed to sit on the Privy Council, that was the king’s council comprised of officials such as the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Treasurer as well as other major Nobles of the Realm. Both Queen and Queen Mother would have been more busy visiting Abbeys and giving to charity rather than running the government which was, you know, the kings job.
** in real life Henry VII would’ve most definitely not approved of Lizzie throwing money to the people who dying of the sweating sickness, especially since the kingdom at the time was bankrupt.
** Henry would never have fought on the frontline, he was an administrator, not a general. The closest he ever came to fighting was at Bosworth, when Richard managed to kill his standard bearer, planning of the battle was done by his uncle Jasper.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler: [[TheCameo In the last episode an anonymous priest appears and assists with the execution of Perkin and Teddy.]] A grateful Henry VII makes him Prince Harry's tutor and ask's his name. [[TheReveal He replies his name is Wolsey.]]

to:

** [[spoiler: [[TheCameo In the last episode an anonymous priest appears and assists with the execution of Perkin and Teddy.]] A grateful Henry VII makes him Prince Harry's tutor and ask's his name. [[TheReveal He replies his name is Wolsey.]]]]]]

Added: 282

Changed: 36

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* YoungFutureFamousPeople: Prince Harry, the future Henry VIII.

to:

* YoungFutureFamousPeople: YoungFutureFamousPeople:
**
Prince Harry, the future Henry VIII.VIII.
** [[spoiler: [[TheCameo In the last episode an anonymous priest appears and assists with the execution of Perkin and Teddy.]] A grateful Henry VII makes him Prince Harry's tutor and ask's his name. [[TheReveal He replies his name is Wolsey.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** While we can't say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, and that's that (MaritalRapeLicence was a thing), it's unlikely that it happened the way it did in the series. For starters, it's unlikely he would even touch her before the wedding, even as a weird flexing of power over her. If the word got out, yorkists would be scandalized by his treatment of a princess - and angering yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it. Lastly, their reasoning is nothing short InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility... By Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that would've caused a princess getting pregnant out of wedlock, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?

to:

** While we can't say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, and that's that (MaritalRapeLicence was a thing), it's unlikely that it happened the way it did in the series. For starters, it's unlikely he would even touch her before the wedding, even as a weird flexing of power over her. If the word got out, yorkists Yorkists would be scandalized by his treatment of a princess - and angering yorkists Yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it. Lastly, their reasoning is nothing short of InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility... By by Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that would've caused getting a princess getting pregnant out of wedlock, wedlock would have caused, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?



** It's extremely unlikely Elizabeth of York lost her virginity to Richard III. Real Elizabeth probably didn't even like him very much considering what he did to her little brothers. There were rumors of them possibly marrying for political reasons, but Richard himself vehemently opposed them, and either way they didn't seem to be particullary close.

to:

** It's extremely unlikely Elizabeth of York lost her virginity to Richard III. Real The real Elizabeth probably didn't even like him very much considering what he did to her little brothers. There were rumors rumours of them possibly marrying for political reasons, but Richard himself vehemently opposed them, and either way they didn't seem to be particullary particularly close.



* FrontlineGeneral: Zigzagged. Henry usually leads his troops into battle, and he tends to fight on the frontlines. He only doesn't do so at the battle of Stoke against the forces of the pretender Lambert Simnel, since Lizzie begs him not to, lest he's killed, leaving her a widow and their newborn son without a father.

to:

* FrontlineGeneral: Zigzagged. Henry usually leads his troops into battle, and he tends to fight on the frontlines. He only doesn't do so at the battle of Stoke against the forces of the pretender Lambert Simnel, since Simnel because Lizzie begs him not to, lest he's killed, leaving her a widow and their newborn son without a father.



** Poor Margaret Beaufort gets the worst of it. She was undoubtedly ambitious - she supported her son in his efforts to gain the throne and after he became king, she demanded to be treated as a queen, pushing Elizabeth of York to the wayside. However, other than that, she is mostly remembered as a kind, pious and intelligent woman who used her considerable influence on the court for good. She supported artists and academics, and when Cecily of York married a commoner against the will of her son, she spoke in her favor to Henry. Definitely a far cry from crazy, shrewish religious fanatic and effectively a villain of the story this show portrays her as...

to:

** Poor Margaret Beaufort gets the worst of it. She was undoubtedly ambitious - she supported her son in his efforts to gain the throne and after he became king, she demanded to be treated as a queen, pushing Elizabeth of York to the wayside. However, other than that, she is mostly remembered as a kind, pious and intelligent woman who used her considerable influence on the court for good. She supported artists and academics, and when Cecily of York married a commoner against the will of her son, she spoke in her favor to Henry. Definitely a far cry from the crazy, shrewish religious fanatic and effectively a villain of the story this show portrays her as...

Added: 1223

Changed: 55

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** As an aside, it's supposed to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. For one, he was probably born slightly prematurely - but also, with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months?

to:

*** As an aside, it's supposed to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. For one, he was probably born slightly prematurely - but also, with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months?months? Of course, Elizabeth knows because magic or something.
** It's extremely unlikely Elizabeth of York lost her virginity to Richard III. Real Elizabeth probably didn't even like him very much considering what he did to her little brothers. There were rumors of them possibly marrying for political reasons, but Richard himself vehemently opposed them, and either way they didn't seem to be particullary close.
** Elizabeth Woodwille most likely didn't conspire against Henry VII. It just wouldn't make sense - her sons were imprisoned, most likely dead, and she could ensure a good future for her daughters by collaborating with the new regime. We know for a fact that she and Margaret Beaufort agreed on a marriage of Elizabeth and Henry, creating an alliance against Richard III - the man who dethroned one of her sons, locked both boys in the Tower and it's possible he had them murdered.
** The show justifies continued rivalry between immediate families of Elizabeth and Henry by claiming one of her brothers survived. In reality, the man who claimed to be him was revealed to actually be named Perkin Warbeck and was most likely an impostor.
** Elizabeth and Henry didn't travel to Spain to negotiate the marriage of Arthur and Catherine of Aragon. That's what envoys were for.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ArtisticLicenseHistory: Hoo boy where to start.
** [[HollywoodCostuming Costumes. That's where we start.]]
** While we can't say for sure Henry VII absolutely never raped Elizabeth, and that's that (MaritalRapeLicence was a thing), it's unlikely that it happened the way it did in the series. For starters, it's unlikely he would even touch her before the wedding, even as a weird flexing of power over her. If the word got out, yorkists would be scandalized by his treatment of a princess - and angering yorkists was the last thing Henry would want. It also went against the deeply religious morality of the era, so especially his own mother wouldn't stand for it. Lastly, their reasoning is nothing short InsaneTrollLogic. Supposedly, they want to test Elizabeth's fertility... By Henry trying to get Elizabeth pregnant before marriage. Setting aside the outrage that would've caused a princess getting pregnant out of wedlock, just how long did they plan on trying this?! Even a healthy, fertile woman can try for years before she actually gets pregnant, and in that time, Elizabeth, the heir of house York, would be formally unbound to the new king. Henry also proclaims that if Elizabeth proves to be infertile, he marries her sister Cecily. Would he "test" her the same way he does Elizabeth? If yes, just how long is he willing to take to enter this otherwise very convenient marriage?! If not, what if Cecily turns out to be infertile too?
*** As an aside, it's supposed to explain why their first son Arthur was born eight months after the wedding. For one, he was probably born slightly prematurely - but also, with the state of medicine in the 15th century, how could anyone actually know Elizabeth is pregnant at no more than two months?


Added DiffLines:

* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Or rather, a historical version of AdaptationalBadass, applied toward Elizabeth of York. Real Elizabeth is relatively unremarkable, as far as her own actions go - she seems to have been a typical queen consort of the time, performing her representative duties and not meddling in politics. It's pretty ridiculous to imagine her doing most of the interesting stuff she gets up to in the show.

Top