History PlayingWith / NoTrueScotsman

** Alice likes to think of herself as being X, but is told that she doesn't fit the dictionary definition/meet the official qualifications. In response [[PersonalDictionary she tries to assert a different, broader definition that ''would'' include her]].

** Alice like to think of herself as being X, but is told that she doesn't fit the dictionary definition/meet the official qualifications. In response she tries to assert a different, broader definition that ''would'' include her.

'''Basic Trope''': Character A does not consider character B to belong to a certain group, because of his[=/=]her actions or attributes.

** Alice ends up defining "real" Goths so narrowly that the majority of Goths do not fit her definition.

** Alice randomly flips between defining Ravenna as being a Goth, and as not being one.

** Alice tells Bob, "No woman other than a Goth would dye her hair black. " When Bob points out that Susan dyes her hair black, Alice replies, "Well, then I guess she's a Goth too, even if she doesn't think so."

* '''Zig Zagged''': Ravenna acts like a Goth, and Susan doesn't. Alice believes that Susan is a Goth because she dyes her black, but also believes that Ravenna isn't because she wears pink lipstick.

* '''Implied''': [[PerkyGoth Ravenna]] is the only Goth Alice seems to look disprovingly of, yet the fact Alice never explains herself leaves the exact reason up in the air.
* '''Played For Laughs''': Alice's made-up definitions are a RunningGag.
* '''Played For Drama''': Ravenna [[DisproportionateRetribution murders Alice]] over her [[FelonyMisdemeanor made-up definition]] of "Goth".

%% Optional items, added after Conversed, at your discretion:
%%
%%* '''Deconstructed''': ???

** Alice insists that all Goths are disguised space aliens with no eyes, eight breasts, and an attraction to polka dots. Bob points out that no Goths currently fit that definition, and Alice claims they're all trend followers getting their facts wrong. Bob points out that even the pioneers of Gothic culture didn't fit that definition, [[InsaneTrollLogic to which Alice replies that the Gothic subculture has become more open since then.]]

* '''Parodied''': Bob points out that Alice, also a Goth, is wearing stilettos too. Alice promptly and dramatically renounces her Goth status and decides to be a[[Franchise/StarTrek Trekkie]] instead.

* '''Parodied''': Bob points out that Alice, also a Goth, is wearing stilettos too. Alice promptly and dramatically renounces her Goth status and decides to be a Trekkie instead.

* '''Justified''': Alice believes that Ravenna isn't a true Goth because of her boots.

* '''Straight''': Alice tells Bob, "All true {{Goth}}s wear clunky combat boots. Everyone knows that." When Bob points out that their friend Ravenna prefers sleek stiletto boots, Alice says, "In that case, I guess she's not a real {{Goth}}."

* '''Implied''': Not applicable. (This trope can only be shown.)

* '''Parodied''': ???

'''Basic Trope''': Character A does not consider character B to belong to group C, because of his[=/=]her actions or attributes.

** Alice considers Ravenna to be a Goth because she follows many of the habits of Goths, even though she never claims to be one.

* '''Zig Zagged''': ???

Oh, you're done this? Well, go back to the [[NoTrueScotsman REAL main page,]] away from the poser main page!

%%* '''Implied''': ???

'''Basic Trope''': Someone makes a generalization about a group of people, and when given a counterexample, arbitrarily redefines the group to exclude that person.
* '''Straight''': "{{Goth}}s all wear clunky combat boots. What? Ravenna prefers sleek stiletto boots? Well, she's no ''real'' {{Goth}}."
* '''Exaggerated''': Alice ends up defining "Real Goths" so narrowly that the majority of Goths do not fit her definition.
* '''Downplayed''': Alice's exclusion isn't inherently part of the definition (if it was, it wouldn't be the fallacy at all) but is still something most people really ''wouldn't'' associate with the group. For example, she says "Goths don't wear pink lipstick!"

** "Only a Goth would dye her hair black. What? Susan does it? Well, then I guess ''she's'' a Goth too."
** Raveena is accepted as a goth because she follows many of the habits of goths, even though she never claims to be one.
* '''Subverted''': Raveena is said by Alice not to be a goth... but because of a list of clearly defined attributes by Alice, which others agree she doesn't meet.
* '''Double Subverted''': ... But many of them are constantly changed and made narrower and narrower as time goes on.
* '''Parodied''': Raveena is defined as not being Goth enough by something pointlessly silly, like not wearing a very specific nail polish which is hard to get.
* '''Zig Zagged''': Raveena is seemingly defined as being then not being a Goth at random.

* '''Enforced''': RuleOfFunny

* '''Invoked''': Alice does not consider Ravenna a Goth, so she arbitrarily redefines the term.
* '''Exploited''': ???
* '''Defied''': "Well OK, Ravenna's a Goth too, but '''most''' Goths aren't like that."
* '''Discussed''': ???

%%* '''Reconstructed''': ???
%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???
%%* '''Played For Drama''': ???

* '''Justified''': ???
* '''Inverted''':

** Raveena is accepted as a goth even though she never claims to be one because she follows many of the habits of goths.
* '''Subverted''': Raveena is said by Alice not to be a goth... but because of a list of clearly defined attributes by Alice, which others agree she doens't meet.

* '''Averted''': "Well OK, Ravenna's a Goth too, but '''most''' Goths aren't like that."
* '''Enforced''': ???
* '''Lampshaded''': ???
* '''Invoked''': ???

* '''Defied''': ???

* '''Conversed''': ???

%%* '''Plotted A Good Waste''': ???

'''Basic Trope''': Someone makes a generalization about a group, and when given a counterexample, arbitrarily redefines the group to exclude it.

* '''Inverted''': "Only a Goth would dye her hair black. What? Susan does it? Well, then I guess ''she's'' a Goth too."
* '''Subverted''': ???
* '''Double Subverted''': ???
* '''Parodied''': ???
* '''Zig Zagged''': ???

Back to NoTrueScotsman

* '''Straight''': "{{Goth}}s all wear clunky combat boots. What? Ravenna prefers sleek stiletto boots? Well, she's no ''real'' {{Goth}}"

* '''Averted''': ???

* '''Downplayed''': ???

* '''Deconstructed''': ???
* '''Reconstructed''': ???
* '''Played For Drama''': ???

%%* '''Played For Laughs''': ???

* '''Exaggerated''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she had the [[SarcasmMode audacity]] to hang out with another girl who is clearly not (and does not claim to be) {{Goth}}.
* '''Downplayed''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she listens to different types of music rather than focusing on the dark stuff.
* '''Justified''': It becomes apparent upon actually getting to know Ravenna that she really ''is'' a poseur, trying too hard to seem DarkerAndEdgier than she actually is.
* '''Inverted''':
** Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she is more goth than all the other goths at school put together.
** Alternatively, Ravenna is warmly welcomed and accepted at the {{Goth}} table (well, as warmly as they can) even though she couldn't be less {{Goth}} if she tried.
* '''Subverted''': Ravenna sits at the table with her clique like usual...
* '''Double Subverted''': But there is an invisible wall around her and them, and it's clear that she's been alienated from them somehow. They also talk about her when she goes to the bathroom to fix her lipstick when she's done eating.
* '''Parodied''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table for wearing black.

* '''Averted''': Ravenna is warmly welcomed and accepted at the {{Goth}} table.
* '''Enforced''': Elitism and insecurity. (See "Deconstructed")
* '''Lampshaded''': [[Film/MeanGirls "You can't sit with us!"]]
* '''Invoked''': The AlphaBitch of the {{Goth}} table sizes up Ravenna, looking for any reason to exclude her.

* '''Deconstructed''': The problem is with the group; they're so insecure that they feel they have to all behave the same.
* '''Reconstructed''': The group learns that there are multiple ways to express oneself and be part of the {{Goth}} subculture, and they accept Ravenna. Even if she does happen to prefer stiletto boots over combat boots. Even if she did happen to wear a pink bow that didn't have a skull in the middle. And even if she does choose to have non-goth friends.
* '''Played For Drama''': The effect that being alienated has on Ravenna.

'''Basic Trope''': Someone is excluded from a subculture he/she is part of, because he/she isn't "hardcore" enough.
* '''Straight''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she prefers sleek stiletto boots over clunky combat boots.

* '''Downplayed''': Ravenna is excluded form the {{Goth}} table because she listens to different types of music rather than focusing on the dark stuff.

* '''Downplayed''': ???

* '''Basic Trope''': Someone is excluded from a subculture he/she is part of, because he/she isn't "hardcore" enough.
* '''Played Straight''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she prefers sleek stiletto boots over clunky combat boots.

* '''Inverted''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table because she is more goth than all the other goths at school put together.

* '''Deconstructed''': The problem is with the group; they're so insecure that they feel they have to all behave the same.
* '''Reconstructed''': The group learns that there are multiple ways to express oneself and be part of the {{Goth}} subculture, and they accept Ravenna. Even if she does happen to prefer stiletto boots over combat boots. Even if she did happen to wear a pink bow that didn't have a skull in the middle. And even if she does choose to have non-goth friends.

* '''Exploited''': the AlphaBitch of the {{Goth}} table sizes up Ravenna, looking for any reason to exclude her.
* '''Lampshaded''': [[Film/MeanGirls "You can't sit with us!"]]

* '''Enforced''': Elitism and insecurity (see "deconstructed")
* '''Invoked''': See "exploited"
* '''Defied''': See "reconstructed"
* '''Discussed''':
* '''Conversed''':
* '''Played For Laughs''': See "parodied"

----

* '''Justified''': It becomes apparent upon actually getting to know Ravenna that she really ''is'' a poseur, trying too hard to seem DarkerAndEdgier than she actually is.

* '''Deconstructed''': The problem is with the group; they're so insecure that they feel they have to all behave the same.

* '''Parodied''': Ravenna is excluded from the {{Goth}} table for wearing black.

* '''Lampshaded''': [[MeanGirls "You can't sit with us!"]]
* '''Averted''': Ravenna is warmly welcomed and accepted at the {{Goth}} table.

* '''Played For Drama''': The effect that being alienated has on Ravenna.

* '''Exploited''': TheLibby of the {{Goth}} table sizes up Ravenna, looking for any reason to exclude her.

** Alternatively, Ravenna is warmly welcomed and accepted at the {{Goth}} table even though she couldn't be less {{Goth}} if she tried.