History Main / StupidGood

** [[spoiler: Naruto is finally awake now from his AngstComa and now he seems to be going to confront Sasuke. He's in Sage Mode and everything...thus he probably knows that he can't keep giving Sasuke the benefit of the doubt.]]
*** [[spoiler: ItGotWorse, and he STILL persists in trying to save Sasuke rather than just kill him. With his fists, this time !]]
** Not quite as bad as you're making out. Although he has utmost faith that Sasuke can be redeemed (Dunno why) he does realize that certain people have to be stopped, such as [[spoiler: Madara]]. His immediate reaction upon meeting him was a Rasengan. Naruto may have more faith in Sasuke than is sensible, but even he has his limits. Plus, Naruto has shown no refusal to fight people, only [[TechnicalPacifist to killing them]]. So while he is Stupid Good towards Sasuke, it doesn't apply to everyone. And even with him, he seems ready to kill as a last resort.
** Actually, Naruto has no qualms with killing people, its just that most villains shown seem to be able to survive the encounters. If you look at the movies, he always kills the antagonist at the end of the movie.

** If you watch that scene again, you'll notice that she is actually doing nothing to prevent that person's death, what she is opposed to is being party to murder. He can't have her approval of that action, but unlike a Stupid Good character, she does nothing to prevent it.
*** Actually, choosing the survival of a single person (who, incidentally, was going to die anyway) over that of the whole human race just because she feels bad about giving her approval to "murder" makes her undeniably StupidGood. What if she had managed to persuade the others not to do it? (Okay, [[spoiler: he was already dead at that point]], but they didn't know that).
**** The answer is: the others would have done it anyway with or without her vote and everyonr at the table knew that. What she really wanted was the recognition that a man's life isn't trivial enough to be thrown away on a vote; that's it's something of importance even in the face of humanity's total destruction. That why she relents and says to Mace that when he kills him to "make it easy for him. Somehow. Find a kindness."

* Eddard Stark from ''{{A Song of Ice and Fire}}'' is bound by an inflexible code of honor. It doesn't feel as egregious as might be normal, though. His flaw, [[spoiler:in the end]], wasn't his code of honor, but his belief that other people are better or more honest than they actually are and that they can be shamed into doing the right thing; he's willing to do the right thing, no matter how hard that may actually be.

*** He was barely breaking even with her, and trying to stop his past self from taking over. A better example would be him memorizing the name of every woman who died for him while ignoring the men who did the same.
*** Note that this seems to only apply to Rand. Mat and Perrin try to avoid killing women but will do so when necessary and don't beat themselves up for it. Rand has... issues. And knows it.
**** He actually laughs about the idiocy of it all (and later regards his failing to at which led to [[spoiler: Moiraine's death]] as the point where things started to go really wrong for him. And Mat does beat himself up over killing women and even vows not to do so again, though his pragmatic frame of mind suggests he knows he might have to again.

*** That's helped by their ''not'' refusing to shelter behind people who ''are'' willing to fight for their lives, not that they will likely give a sincere thank you - at least not without some comment about how sad it is that their defender felt they had to take a life. Most of the protagonists tend to say in return that they can live with the guilt, and somehow refrain from slapping the Tinkers.

** Though he does [[KarmicDeath gets what's coming to him]] in the end.

* In the ''{{Discworld}}'' novels, Captain Carrot, who is described as being so likeable, that disappointing his worldview is like kicking a puppy.
** Carrot is many things, but stupid isn't one of them. He does a lot of things that would be hopelessly naive in another character, but the key difference is that, due to his nature and the nature of the world he inhabits, he can make those things ''work''. Not only that, he understands the limitations of his ability to influence people, and if circumstances require him to kill he has no problem doing so.

* Peter Petrelli ("[[BigBad Adam]] [[GenreBlind is my friend.]] [[WhatAnIdiot I can't let you hurt him."]]) and Hiro Nakamura ([[WhyDontYouJustShootHim Why don't you just kill the bad guy when you have the chance?]] "I can't kill somebody begging for forgiveness. It's against the bushido code.") of ''{{Series/Heroes}}''.
** In Hiro's case he is consciously emulating this trope, since comic books and samurai stories have convinced him that this is how a hero is ''supposed'' to behave, which I would count as a partial deconstruction.

*** Its brought up that Celia basically acts like a human from ''our'' world would act in a setting like OrderOfTheStick, being unable to be [[DeathIsCheap easily resurrected]] like humanoid races and if she is killed, she is essentially DeaderThanDead.
*** And that's supposed to justify why she's unwilling to kill people who are trying to kill ''her''? Seems more like that makes her StupidGood tendencies even ''more'' stupid.

** Even ''Homer'' had a quadruple bypass heart surgery after that act alone. And that was before he figured out that 10% of $120 million ''isn't'' $12,000...
** It's because the StatusQuoIsGod.
*** [[FridgeLogic She could have donated the money, and helped so many people, and the status quo would've still been maintained. By tearing up the cheque, she didn't ''destroy'' the money; that just meant that Burns kept it all.]]

** FridgeLogic: Failing one class won't get you thrown out of college, and few if any colleges will require a ''specific'' science class for a Bachelor's of Arts in Writing. After failing that class, Brian could have just gone on to take one of the many softer science options most colleges offer. Cheating, however, will almost invariably lead to expulsion. The honorable thing was also the smart thing, or would be in any realistic take on the situation (which, of course, FamilyGuy isn't.)

** Even ''[[IdiotHero Homer]]'' had a quadruple bypass heart surgery after that act alone. And that was before he figured out that 10% of $120 million ''isn't'' $12,000...

*** [[FridgeLogic But she could have donated the money, helping so many people, and the status quo would've still been maintained.]]
** Not so stupid, she had just watched Burns kill a whole bunch of sea life because she had taught him to recycle (And he was recycling live fish). Remember, she is eight, it would have been traumatic to see all that and I know I wouldn't want the experience to last too long.

* The eponymous hero of ''Dave the Barbarian'' is "huge, but a wimp" says the theme song. The episode "Horders and Sorcery" begins with a puppet play of heroics to recruit Mongol Horders.

This often extends to such utter pacifism that they refuse to [[ThouShaltNotKill kill]], [[ActualPacifist attack]], or even defend themselves from ''anything''. While most people would flee when faced with a foe which cannot be reasoned with, this person will attempt to talk down the enemy even as they're charging with swords drawn, howling for their heads. This is the kind of person who would attempt to convince [[{{Satan}} the devil himself]] that his evil crusade is wrong and that he and his [[CrystalDragonJesus good counterpart]] should resolve their differences with a kind word and a handshake. While pacifism and diplomacy are admirable positions in RealLife, their track record in fiction is [[ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption somewhat more limited]]. It is difficult to reason with entities whose goals include the [[EarthShatteringKaboom destruction]] or [[TakeOverTheWorld domination]] of the world. Yet the Stupid Good character attempts to convert the CompleteMonster to the [[DefeatMeansFriendship side of good]] using ThePowerOfFriendship anyway -- and her player complains when the [[RealityEnsues predictable bloodbath]] ensues.

*** Actually, choosing the survival of a single person (who, incidentally, was going to die anyway) over that of the whole human race just because she feels bad about giving her approval to "murder" makes her undeniably StupidGood. What if she had managed to persuade the others not to do it? (Ok, [[spoiler: he was already dead at that point]], but they didn't know that).

This often extends to such utter pacifism that they refuse to [[ThouShaltNotKill kill]], [[ActualPacifist attack]], or even defend themselves from ''anything''. While most people would flee when faced with a foe which cannot be reasoned with, this person will attempt to talk down the enemy even as they're charging with swords drawn, howling for their heads. This is the kind of person who would attempt to convince [[{{Satan}} the devil himself]] that his evil crusade is wrong and that he and his [[CrystalDragonJesus good counterpart]] should resolve their differences with a kind word and a handshake. While pacifism and diplomacy are admirable positions in RealLife, their track record in fiction is [[ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption somewhat more limited]]. Most real-life conflicts are merely differences in opinion, where both parties can (theoretically) reach a compromise. However, it is difficult to reason with entities whose goals include the [[EarthShatteringKaboom destruction]] or [[TakeOverTheWorld domination]] of the world. Yet the Stupid Good character attempts to convert the CompleteMonster to the [[DefeatMeansFriendship side of good]] using ThePowerOfFriendship anyway -- and her player complains when the [[RealityEnsues predictable bloodbath]] ensues.

** Stupid, perhaps, but [[IdiotHero good]], at least later on in the series[[hottip:* :I will give you the point about her mother]]? She's almost unconsciously ChaoticStupid or maybe even StupidEvil, refusing to take the valuable advice of everyone close to her (including the very person she is almost literally throwing away her existence to spend eternity with), taking petty revenge on him based on her own erroneous conclusions of "betrayal," and essentially manipulating him to compromise his multilayered "I don't want to hurt you" convictions.

* The ''[[{{Unicorn}} kirin]]'' of ''TheTwelveKingdoms'' are this, but this is an accepted fact in-universe: One of a ruler's most important duties is ignoring the advice of his ''kirin'', since a kingdom cannot be ruled on compassion alone.

* ''DragonBallZ's'' Goku: The only BigBad he didn't let live (Vegeta), offer to spare (Radditz, Capt. Ginyu, Frieza), or hope to be redeemed and fight again (Buu) was Cell -- and even Cell got a free Senzu bean, which he makes up for by nearly letting Cell beat Gohan to death (despite having first hand knowledge that Gohan's BerserkButton was seeing his loved ones in danger, not his own peril).

** Not entirely true. Had Goku held onto Radditz's [[AchillesHeel tail]] instead of falling for Radditz's BlatantLies, Piccolo would've killed Radditz, who never would've been able to [[JustBetweenYouAndMe talk Piccolo into revealing the Dragon Balls,]] thus Vegeta and Nappa wouldn't have bothered with Earth and kept blowing up other planets. Though this would've made the series [[UnderStatement much shorter.]]

*** It's actually noted that Goku [[IdiotHero has never been very bright]], possibly due to taking a few too many blows to the head. It's actually ''canon'' that brain damage caused him to forget his [[{{Tykebomb}} Saiyan conquerer programming]] and is the whole reason he turned out okay.

** Not quie as bad as you're making out. Although he has utmost faith that Sasuke can be redeemed (Dunno why) he does realize that certain people have to be stopped, such as [[spoiler: Madara]]. His immediate reaction upon meeting him was a Rasengan. Naruto may have more faith in Sasuke than is sensible, but even he has his limits. Plus, Naruto has shown no refusal to fight people, only [[TechnicalPacifist kill]]. So while he is Stupid Good towards Sasuke, it doesn't apply to everyone. And even with him, he seems ready to kill as a last resort.

*** He was barely breaking even with her, and tryin to stop his past self from taking over. A better example would be him memorizing the name of every woman who died for him while ignoring the men who did the same.

* Notably averted (in regards to both LawfulStupid and StupidGood) by Michael Carpenter and the other Knights of the Cross in ''TheDresdenFiles''. The Lawful Stupid seems to come from how Michael is a devout Christian and the closest thing to a paladin in the series, and often makes his opinion on Harry's practices (from using magic and consorting with spirits, to having sex outside of marriage) known and disapproves of some of Harry's less moral actions, and general antipathy toward religion. Nevertheless, he never pushes his beliefs on Harry, recognises him as a good man who strives to do what is right to the best of his ability, and is Harry's closest friend and ally. Harry himself describes Michael as genuinely righteous and humble, and says that looking into his soul made him weep. The Stupid Good seems to come from how the Knights show a desire to redeem the Knights of the Blackened Denarius (an order of thirty people who have made a [[DealWithTheDevil pact with Fallen Angels]]), constantly offering them the chance for redemption and refusing to kill one at one point. The aversion comes from how they only do this if a Denarian surrenders its coin containing the angel, and are otherwise quite willing to fight and kill them (they also show no problem with unequivacally evil or chaotic creatures). Michael points out that the Christian God is about forgiveness, and that mercy is what sets the Knights above those they fight (one of the Knights themselves is a proof example of how that attitude actually works). Also, at one point, one of the Knights makes a deal with a Denarian, fully expecting betrayal. The only reason he did it was because he knew it to be the only way to save Harry, whose life he valued more (plus, he was dying of cancer).

** Carrot is many things, but stupid isn't one of them. He does a lot of things that would be hopelessly naive in another charachter, but the key difference is that, due to his nature and the nature of the world he inhabits, he can make those things ''work''. Not only that, he understands the limitations of his ability to influence people, and if circumstances require him to kill he has no problem doing so.

** In a possible case of FridgeBrilliance, it's worth noting the long reccuring foes are way past ''second'' chance.

*** Well, the Children do have their fair share of {{Church Militant}}s who are every bit as asskicking as the others. They're just more likely to be unambiguously good (ie, no killing innocents) than any other tribe.

*** Its brought up that Celia basically acts like a human from ''our'' world would act in a setting like OrderOfTheStick, being unable to be [[DeathIsCheap easily ressurected]] like humanoid races and if she is killed, she is essentially DeaderThanDead.

* Hego from ''KimPossible''. He [[ClarkKenting hides his identity with glasses and a tie]], [[MrExposition talks on and on, giving the enemy the chance to attack]], and [[BotheringBytheBook follows the rules of hero/villain interaction to the T]], even lecturing the other heroes on the 'proper' way to do things ''while they were all in danger from the villain''. By about halfway through his introductory episode, the heroes competely understand why his little sister turned evil.

In short, the Stupid Good character is "good" to the point of being [[ThePollyanna unable to comprehend]] that [[AlwaysChaoticEvil someone else might be bad]]. As such, she's a FriendToAllLivingThings, [[TheUndead unliving things]], and [[EldritchAbomination eldritch abominations]].

** Orihime also heals [[spoiler:the BigBad, Muramasa]] in the Zanpakuto filler arc, immediately after he collapses while attacking her, and continues to do so after he admits to being Ichigo's enemy.

* Garrus was in this alignment during his two years as Archangel, trying to make a difference in Omega. Of course this gets his comrades killed when one of his own men betrays them. He even muses about how he can't deal with GreyAndGreyMorality when forced to deal with the traitor.
** What? He was making a difference by killing as many bad guys as he could, cracking jokes about picking them off the whole time and bragging about how bad he's pissing them off. His issues with GreyAndGreyMorality were more from his KnightTemplar tendencies than his inability to see evil in others. This trope is more concerned with giving everyone and everything the benefit of the doubt, which definitely wasn't Garrus' problem.
*** And Helena Blake, who is essentially doing the same thing (as a social worker on the wretched Omega, as opposed to a vigilante), is too self-aware of the mountain of odds against her to fall into this trope.

** This troper notes, as she is wont to do, that the manga version of Sailor Moon is a bit more sensible than her anime counterpart about giving items of great power to the bad guys.

* FamilyGuy Lampshaded this in "Brian Goes to College" when he's given the chance to cheat, but chooses not to and fails, trying to use the old [[AnAesop "At least I failed honorably"]] cliche, which the entire family immediately calls bullshit on, (even [[OnlySaneMan Lois]]) and that he should've just cheated and passed.

* In the new ''WorldOfDarkness,'' pretty much everyone with a Morality above 8 probably counts, considering you can ding a Morality 9 rating by simply refusing to do a good act when presented with the opportunity, and ding a Morality 10 rating by ''just thinking about doing something bad.'' SoYeah.

* Bella Swan from ''Twilight'': there are several instances in which she puts herself in mortal danger unnecessarily or to the benefit of no-one. Example: In the first book when she believes her mother has been kidnapped by a vampire. She sneaks away from her vampiric associates to offer herself up as sacrifice for her mother, so as not to put her vampire family in danger. After receiving a thorough beating, her friends find her and quickly dispatch the offending vampire... something they would have/could have done in the first place.

* Garrus was in this alignment during his two years as Archangel, trying to make a difference in Omega. Of course this gets his comrades killed when one of his own men betrays them. He even muses about how he can't deal with GreyAndGreyMorality when forced to deal with the traitor