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* ''AnimaBeyondFantasy'' features a couple interesting takes on the concept.

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* ''AnimaBeyondFantasy'' ''TabletopGame/AnimaBeyondFantasy'' features a couple interesting takes on the concept.
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** 4th edition makes attributes linear in effect, meaning that someone with 18 strength is no longer four times stronger than someone with 10 strength, but rather "+4" stronger on d20 rolls (and thus, 20 percentage points more likely to succeed at a task). This resolves a lot of the issues with trying to represent characters with very high stats, making characters with very high stats much more human.

to:

** 4th edition and on makes attributes linear in effect, meaning that someone with 18 strength is no longer four times stronger than someone with 10 strength, but rather "+4" stronger on d20 rolls (and thus, 20 percentage points more likely to succeed at a task). This resolves a lot of the issues with trying to represent characters with very high stats, making characters with very high stats much more human.

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to:

* ''AnimaBeyondFantasy'' features a couple interesting takes on the concept.
** It has an open-ended dice roll system, meaning it's possible, [[TitleDrop statistically speaking]], to succeed on any roll no matter how badly the odds are stacked against you. Unfortunately, this could lead to a lucky roll allowing a first level PC to do something like punch through reinforced steel. To keep things (somewhat) more reasonable, allowing a roll to exceed the threshold for what a real-life human could possibly accomplish requires additional abilities. A character must have the Inhumanity trait, or its even-crazier upgrade Zen, which allow things that defy logic and physics in all sorts of [[RuleOfCool awesome]] [[RuleOfFun ways]].
** Similarly, when it comes to base stats, characters cannot exceed the maximum score of 10 in any physical stat without Inhumanity or Zen. Interestingly, the game gives a little wiggle room for mental and spiritual stats, with the explanation that it's a lot harder to quantify the maximum mental ability of a human.
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A particularly counterintuitive bit of GameplayAndStorySegregation, it includes everything from strength (though it does explain carrying [[ImprobableWeaponUser improbable weapons]]), speed/dexterity (No SuperSpeed for ''you''), intelligence (can't have the mage see through the EvilPlan, can we?) and HP (You literally have the HP to survive a flamethrower in the face, but can't even get near measly CutScene flames without intense pain).

to:

A particularly counterintuitive bit of GameplayAndStorySegregation, it includes everything from strength (though it does explain carrying [[ImprobableWeaponUser improbable weapons]]), speed/dexterity (No SuperSpeed for ''you''), intelligence (can't have the mage see through the EvilPlan, can we?) and HP (You literally have the HP to survive a flamethrower in the face, but can't even get near measly CutScene flames [[CutsceneIncompetence without intense pain).
pain]]).
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Fixed two potholes


''"[[TheWeakestLink Statistically speaking, the PC is the strongest man in the world. But will the reality reflect this?]]"''

to:

''"[[TheWeakestLink ''"[[Series/TheWeakestLink Statistically speaking, the PC is the strongest man in the world. But will the reality reflect this?]]"''



Many tabletop games in general avoid this trope, thanks to the presence of a human being judging the rules and interpreting the game's gray areas. It's when roleplaying games make the jump to video games, relying on a computer that only allows you to do whatever the developers could squeeze into the engine (and [[DeveloperForesight conceive of the player trying]]) to act as adjudicator, that things get hairy.

to:

Many tabletop games in general avoid this trope, thanks to the presence of a human being judging the rules and interpreting the game's gray areas. It's when roleplaying games make the jump to video games, relying on a computer that only allows you to do whatever the developers could squeeze into the engine (and [[DeveloperForesight [[DevelopersForesight conceive of the player trying]]) to act as adjudicator, that things get hairy.

Changed: 4251

Removed: 6978

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Natter, Example Indentation, general cleanup


* Games by Black Isle Studios were among the first to kick this trope square in the nuts with ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'', as every skill and ability has multiple applications, including checks made during dialogue, special interactions, and clues that the game can drop in your direction for characters able to notice them. Then they took this approach when making ''[[BaldursGate Baldur's Gate]]'', which many considered the first computer game to truly capture the "spirit" of D&D. Bioware and Obsidian (mostly Obsidian, Bioware tends to use the options as pure flavor or as an alternative that gives the same results) continue this tradition today, as seen below.
** The first two ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' games also have the opposite effect if you use Intelligence as a [[DumpStat dump stat]], leaving you with a character who is effectively brain damaged. All your dialogue options for the entire game are replaced with suitably dim-witted alternatives and certain non-player characters actually recognise that you will be totally incapable of following simple instructions and so will complete important quests for you!
** Likewise, ''Fallout'''s spiritual sequel ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'' contains all of the above examples, as well as numerous others. If one achieves 20 strength and dexterity, you will be preternaturally powerful and able to easily solve any problem you can murder your way out of. This is greatly helped by the lack of cutscenes to move the story along.
** In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'', new conversation options are opened thanks to your Cunning attribute. There is, of course, a Coercion skill. Apparently lopping off enemy heads can make you ''really, really'' good at convincing people. But would ''you'' argue with someone who can turn a fire-breathing dragon into a scaly [[TooSoon John the Baptist impersonator?]]
** In ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights'', the character's intelligence and wisdom scores affect what dialogue options are offered. Dumb characters get grunting, wise ones intuitive solutions, and smart ones lore. On the other hand, the Charisma score doesn't play as large a role in conversations as it could, which was one of the reasons ''VideoGame/ADanceWithRogues'' mod was created.
** Especially important in ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'', where each stat has an effect on at least a few non-combat choices. Because each level gives you another point to place in any stat, whether you've been packing them all into dexterity and wisdom or strength and endurance will determine whether you spot and disarm the trap, or take it like a man.
*** However, in the same game, having maximum charisma does not actually enable The Nameless One to lead the planes to war or even simply recruit additional followers, even though the description implies that he should be able to. Wisdom and Charisma do, however, allow you to TALK characters to death/defeat! It grants you massive stat-ups as well.
** ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' does this; improved attributes open up new conversation options, so a particularly intelligent or perceptive character will pick up subtleties that others might miss. The sequel does even more of it.
*** The LetsPlay for [=KotOR II=] pokes fun at this, since the game's already laughably easy "puzzles" become almost insulting if your character has an Int of 14 or higher - the game literally ''gives'' you the answer.
** ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'', made by Troika (refugees from Black Isle), continues the ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' tradition of most puzzles being able to be solved in various ways, and stealth being generally rewarded better than violence ([[TheMasquerade for obvious reasons]]). Dialogue attribute checks are plentiful, especially thanks to the mind-altering powers of various Disciplines, and characters will even react differently based on different stats, particularly Appearance. Sadly, this starts to disappear in the late game, as development was rushed by the publisher.
* The ''VideoGame/QuestForGlory'' series includes several skills, all of them used in conjunction with your core stats. Each of the three basic classes will have different starting distributions of stats and skills, and will approach each problem in different ways accordingly: someone with high dexterity and good climbing skill can scale the wall rather than take on the guard at the gate, and so on.
** Notably, [=QfG=] averts this particular trope: certain actions depend on your abilities at the time, which can be improved. You can't move a very heavy rock until you have a particularly high strength stat, picking a lock requires dexterity and lockpicking skill, and if you don't have a reasonable level of climbing skill at key points, it's HaveANiceDeath. Naturally, the only stat that doesn't have a direct effect on gameplay is Intelligence, which is only used to determine your mana points.
*** However, to keep the treadmill going, the same character in [=QfG4=] now needs ~350 Climbing to climb a city wall which doesn't really look at all different from the city wall in [=QfG1=] which took ~50 Climbing. Likewise for Lockpicking, etc. Maybe Mordavia is just so oppressive that even common tasks require a diehard veteran.
** Although the "communication" skill wasn't added until the second game, and the moments where it actually makes a difference are rather rare.
*** Communication is specifically related to bartering, which makes it useless in [=QfG4=], where bartering isn't an option.

to:

* Games by Black Isle Studios were among the first to kick this trope square in the nuts with ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'', as every skill and ability has multiple applications, including checks made during dialogue, special interactions, and clues that the game can drop in your direction for characters able to notice them. Then they took this approach when making ''[[BaldursGate Baldur's Gate]]'', which many considered the first computer game to truly capture the "spirit" of D&D. Bioware and Obsidian (mostly Obsidian, Bioware tends to use the options as pure flavor or as an alternative that gives the same results) continue this tradition today, as seen below.
**
The first two ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' games also have the opposite effect if you use Intelligence as a [[DumpStat dump stat]], leaving you with a character who is effectively brain damaged.brain-damaged. All your dialogue options for the entire game are replaced with suitably dim-witted alternatives and certain non-player characters actually recognise that you will be totally incapable of following simple instructions and so will complete important quests for you!
** Likewise, * Black Isle took this approach when making ''[[BaldursGate Baldur's Gate]]'', which many considered the first computer game to truly capture the "spirit" of D&D. Bioware and Obsidian (mostly Obsidian, Bioware tends to use the options as pure flavor or as an alternative that gives the same results) continue this tradition today, as seen below.
* In
''Fallout'''s spiritual sequel ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'' contains all of the above examples, as well as numerous others. If one ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'', if you achieves 20 strength and dexterity, you will be preternaturally powerful and able to easily solve any problem you can murder your way out of. This is greatly helped by the lack of cutscenes to move the story along.
** * In ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'', new conversation options are opened thanks to your Cunning attribute. There is, of course, a Coercion skill. Apparently lopping off enemy heads can make you ''really, really'' good at convincing people. But would ''you'' argue with someone who can turn a fire-breathing dragon into a scaly [[TooSoon John the Baptist impersonator?]]
** * In ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights'', the character's intelligence and wisdom scores affect what dialogue options are offered. Dumb characters get grunting, wise ones intuitive solutions, and smart ones lore. On the other hand, the Charisma score doesn't play as large a role in conversations as it could, which was one of the reasons ''VideoGame/ADanceWithRogues'' mod was created.
** * Especially important in ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'', where each stat has an effect on at least a few non-combat choices. Because each level gives you another point to place in any stat, whether you've been packing them all into dexterity and wisdom or strength and endurance will determine whether you spot and disarm the trap, or take it like a man.
***
man. However, in the same game, having maximum charisma does not actually enable The Nameless One to lead the planes to war or even simply recruit additional followers, even though the description implies that he should be able to. Wisdom and Charisma do, however, allow you to TALK characters to death/defeat! It grants you massive stat-ups as well.
** * ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' does this; improved attributes open up new conversation options, so a particularly intelligent or perceptive character will pick up subtleties that others might miss. The sequel does even more of it.
*** The LetsPlay for [=KotOR II=] pokes fun at this, since the game's already laughably easy "puzzles" become almost insulting if your character has an Int of 14 or higher - the game literally ''gives'' you the answer.
**
* ''VideoGame/VampireTheMasqueradeBloodlines'', made by Troika (refugees from Black Isle), continues the ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' tradition of most puzzles being able to be solved in various ways, and stealth being generally rewarded better than violence ([[TheMasquerade for obvious reasons]]). Dialogue attribute checks are plentiful, especially thanks to the mind-altering powers of various Disciplines, and characters will even react differently based on different stats, particularly Appearance. Sadly, this starts to disappear in the late game, as development was rushed by the publisher.
* The ''VideoGame/QuestForGlory'' series includes several skills, all of them used in conjunction with your core stats. Each of the three basic classes will have different starting distributions of stats and skills, and will approach each problem in different ways accordingly: someone with high dexterity and good climbing skill can scale the wall rather than take on the guard at the gate, and so on.
** Notably, [=QfG=]
averts this particular trope: this: certain actions depend on your abilities at the time, which can be improved. You can't move a very heavy rock until you have a particularly high strength stat, picking a lock requires dexterity and lockpicking skill, and if you don't have a reasonable level of climbing skill at key points, it's HaveANiceDeath. Naturally, the only stat that doesn't have a direct effect on gameplay is Intelligence, which is only used to determine your mana points.
***
points. However, to keep the treadmill going, the same character in [=QfG4=] now needs ~350 Climbing to climb a city wall which doesn't really look at all different from the city wall in [=QfG1=] which took ~50 Climbing. Likewise for Lockpicking, etc. Maybe Mordavia is just so oppressive that even common tasks require a diehard veteran.
** Although the "communication" skill wasn't added until the second game, and the moments where it actually makes a difference are rather rare.
*** Communication is specifically related to bartering, which makes it useless in [=QfG4=], where bartering isn't an option.
veteran.



* In ''VideoGame/DeusEx'', strength and speed upgrades change the ability to deal with the environment, such as enabling the movement of troublesome boxes or expanding movement abilities, and the levels seem to be designed with this in mind.
** Oddly, the super strength used to lift heavy objects and the super strength used to hit harder in battle are separate augmentations.
*** This is explained by which muscles are being enhanced. The damage enhancement enhances the arm muscles significantly, whereas the lift enhancement augments the arm, back, shoulders, and legs. i.e. with the damage one your arms could take the stress, but you'd still throw out your back or bust all of your joints.
*** Furthermore, "lifting heavy things" isn't the same as "moving things rapidly". Think about a car jack - it lets you lift a car using just your muscles, which is pretty super, but it's not going to help you swing a baseball bat because it's too slow.
** Although the Shifter game mod fixes this little oddity via combining the two augs into one. Makes it a lot more appealing to use upgrade canisters on, too.
** As does the [[DeusExInvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity, it lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.
* Averted in ''VideoGame/ChampionsOnline''. The amount of strength your character has DOES determine how physically strong you are. A character with minimal strength can barely lift a bench or a mailbox, where as a character that has 300 or more strength could easily pick up and toss cars, tanks, or pretty much anything not nailed to the ground.
** {{Champions}} uses a logarithmic scale for strength; a Strength of 300 is actually enough to lift, oh, a smallish mountain range. If the online game really lets you do that, that's impressive.
** Unfortunately, it falls prey to the above example as well, where weapon wielding heroes don't swing any faster. And made even stranger because some characters that invest in no strength at all and use primarily physical attacks, could do just about as much damage as another who did.
* ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.
** And, in a more direct aversion, there is one giant door in particular which you can open by brute force if your Strength stat is high enough. The reward you get is pretty good, too.
** There's also the Warp Zones separating each Kalpa in the ''Labyrinth of Amala'', some kind of minigame where you get coins and items while dodging or breaking obstacles: Strength allows you to break more resistant obstacles, Vitality reduces the amount of HP and money lost when you hit obstacles, Agility lets you move faster, and Luck raises the chances of items appearing.

to:

* In ''VideoGame/DeusEx'', strength and speed upgrades change the ability to deal with the environment, such as enabling the movement of troublesome boxes or expanding movement abilities, and the levels seem to be designed with this in mind.
** Oddly,
mind. [[ZigZaggedTrope Oddly]], the super strength used to lift heavy objects and the super strength used to hit harder in battle are separate augmentations.
*** This is explained by which muscles are being enhanced. The damage enhancement enhances the arm muscles significantly, whereas the lift enhancement augments the arm, back, shoulders, and legs. i.e. with the damage one your arms could take the stress, but you'd still throw out your back or bust all of your joints.
*** Furthermore, "lifting heavy things" isn't the same as "moving things rapidly". Think about a car jack - it lets you lift a car using just your muscles, which is pretty super, but it's not going to help you swing a baseball bat because it's too slow.
** Although the Shifter game mod fixes this little oddity via combining the two augs into one. Makes it a lot more appealing to use upgrade canisters on, too.
** As does the [[DeusExInvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity, it lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.
* Averted in ''VideoGame/ChampionsOnline''. The amount of strength your character has DOES determine how physically strong you are. A character with minimal strength can barely lift a bench or a mailbox, where as a character that has 300 or more strength could easily pick up and toss cars, tanks, or pretty much anything not nailed to the ground.
**
ground. {{Champions}} uses a logarithmic scale for strength; a Strength of 300 is actually enough to lift, oh, a smallish mountain range. If the online game really lets you do that, that's impressive.
** Unfortunately, it falls prey to the above example as well, where weapon wielding heroes don't swing any faster. And made even stranger because some characters that invest in no strength at all and use primarily physical attacks, could do just about as much damage as another who did.
* ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.
** And, in a more direct aversion, there is one giant door in particular which you can open by brute force if your Strength stat is high enough. The reward you get is pretty good, too.
** There's also the Warp Zones separating each Kalpa in the ''Labyrinth of Amala'', some kind of minigame where you get coins and items while dodging or breaking obstacles: Strength allows you to break more resistant obstacles, Vitality reduces the amount of HP and money lost when you hit obstacles, Agility lets you move faster, and Luck raises the chances of items appearing.
impressive.



** They also only affect the lifting strength of your ''arms''; hoist up one of those mega-gigantic things and then watch as poor little Link is stuck there unable to move until you hurl it!
** Having more hearts does more than just allow you to take more hits. The more life you have the longer you can stay in hazardous environments like underwater or in death mountain without the appropriate gear on.
* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of Anime/MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. Anime/MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them {{Stone Wall}}s. Yeah sure, while Anime/MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. Anime/KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attacks that rival these in power? [[Anime/GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

Added: 413

Changed: 299

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:


Many tabletop games in general avoid this trope, thanks to the presence of a human being judging the rules and interpreting the game's gray areas. It's when roleplaying games make the jump to video games, relying on a computer that only allows you to do whatever the developers could squeeze into the engine (and [[DeveloperForesight conceive of the player trying]]) to act as adjudicator, that things get hairy.



* Many tabletop games in general avoid this trope, thanks to the presence of a human being judging the rules and interpreting the game's gray areas, instead of a computer that only allows you to do whatever the developers could squeeze into the engine.
* Early ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' averted this in two ways. While a character's class abilities improved over time, their base stats didn't without the aid of magic, and only the most powerful of magics could make such a change permanent. At the same time, it was plainly stated that if there was any task a character wanted to attempt that wasn't outlined in the rules, the game master could improvise a check using any of the six ability scores.

to:

* Many tabletop games in general avoid this trope, thanks to the presence of a human being judging the rules and interpreting the game's gray areas, instead of a computer that only allows you to do whatever the developers could squeeze into the engine.
* Early ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''
''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'':
** The early editions
averted this in two ways. While a character's class abilities improved over time, their base stats didn't without the aid of magic, and only the most powerful of magics could make such a change permanent. At the same time, it was plainly stated that if there was any task a character wanted to attempt that wasn't outlined in the rules, the game master could improvise a check using any of the six ability scores.



*** 4th edition made attributes linear in effect, meaning that someone with 18 strength was no longer four times stronger than someone with 10 strength, but rather "+4" stronger on d20 rolls (and thus, 20 percentage points more likely to succeed at a task). This resolved a lot of the issue with trying to represent characters with very high stats, making characters with very high stats much more human.

to:

*** ** 4th edition made makes attributes linear in effect, meaning that someone with 18 strength was is no longer four times stronger than someone with 10 strength, but rather "+4" stronger on d20 rolls (and thus, 20 percentage points more likely to succeed at a task). This resolved resolves a lot of the issue issues with trying to represent characters with very high stats, making characters with very high stats much more human.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
MG misuse; Mighty Glaciers are strong and slow, Stone Walls are weak but tough.


* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of Anime/MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. Anime/MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah sure, while Anime/MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.

to:

* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of Anime/MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. Anime/MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier.{{Stone Wall}}s. Yeah sure, while Anime/MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Having more hearts does more than just allow you to take more hits. The more life you have the longer you can stay in hazardous environments like underwater or in death mountain without the appropriate gear on.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah sure, while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.

to:

* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser Anime/MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser Anime/MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah sure, while MazinKaiser Anime/MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** This is so big of an issue that some newer games give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. Anime/KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attacks that rival these in power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

to:

** This is so big of an issue that some newer games give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. Anime/KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attacks that rival these in power? [[GunXSword [[Anime/GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah sure, while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.

to:

* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah sure, while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground), or become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar [[Anime/GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM.
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** This is so big of an issue that some newer games give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attacks that rival these in power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

to:

** This is so big of an issue that some newer games give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg Anime/KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attacks that rival these in power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

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* An example of stats not being well-connected: video games where Strength improves your damage output, but not the speed at which you swing your weapons ([[{{Metroidvania}} Metroidvanias]] are especially guilty of this). In real life, being strong increases your "damage output" ''because'' it lets you swing your weapon faster (momentum equals mass times velocity, so faster swing = harder hit). Another example is when your movement speed also effects how well you dodge attacks. In reality, running fast (movement speed) and reaction time and acceleration (dodging) are completely separate abilities (although they often come together, e.g. a sprinter has to have all three in order to get good times).
** This is displayed in many boxing games where hand speed and power are separate stats. This is TruthInTelevision to some extent, having fast hands does not guarantee power (usually because a boxer sacrifices power for speed). However, games such as Fight Night Round 3 carry it to extremes where a boxer whose hands move like molasses inexplicably do massive damage when they land.
*** Equation for kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2. So, increasing your velocity has more effect on the amount of energy you hit with than mass, because it's squared. A heavy boxer will more often move with their entire body mass, though, which can increase the mass they hit with by a factor or 10 or 20. If the slow as mollases boxers are just half fastie's speed (1/4 the energy) it could be TruthInTelevision.
**** However, it is only a superficial interpretation of how a punch effects a person. Even so, just because velocity is squared does not mean that is the more important factor. Mass can be altered fairly significantly, not only by increasing weight, but also by technique. Changes to punch velocity are minor. For the same type of motion, there isn't that much difference between a fast boxer and slow boxer in terms of actual velocity. Increasing punch speed also usually requires motions that impart less mass behind it, usually resulting in a weaker punch. That's why jabs, despite being very fast, aren't as effective as a hay maker or upper cut.
*** Hand speed can indeed be separate from punching power. This is because it often refers to something other than the speed of the boxer's hand at impact. Boxers who are referred to as having high hand speed are those who can quickly and unexpectedly punch and return to their guard, allowing them to fire off many punches in rapid succession. This can be achieved through throwing your fists faster, which will increase power, but it can also be achieved by reducing the length of the punching arc, and reducing the amount of lower body motion powering the punch. "Arm punches," punches using only or primarily the arm muscles to generate force, can therefore be considerably "faster" in that they're more difficult to see coming and can be fired quickly in large numbers, but punches using the whole body to generate force are actually moving much faster at impact. In professional boxing, where the number of times you strike your opponent is less important than the damage you do, the latter kind of punch is preferred.
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* Early DungeonsAndDragons averted this in two ways. While a character's class abilities improved over time, their base stats didn't without the aid of magic, and only the most powerful of magics could make such a change permanent. At the same time, it was plainly stated that if there was any task a character wanted to attempt that wasn't outlined in the rules, the game master could improvise a check using any of the six ability scores.

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* Early DungeonsAndDragons ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' averted this in two ways. While a character's class abilities improved over time, their base stats didn't without the aid of magic, and only the most powerful of magics could make such a change permanent. At the same time, it was plainly stated that if there was any task a character wanted to attempt that wasn't outlined in the rules, the game master could improvise a check using any of the six ability scores.
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* Inverted in ''VideoGame/TheEvilWithin'': the player character is normally very powerful, breaking wood and iron items alike with ease. His melee damage, however, is very low, and needs upgrading before it can get to the same level of strength.
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*** 4th edition made attributes linear in effect, meaning that someone with 18 strength was no longer four times stronger than someone with 10 strength, but rather "+4" stronger on d20 rolls (and thus, 20 percentage points more likely to succeed at a task). This resolved a lot of the issue with trying to represent characters with very high stats, making characters with very high stats much more human.
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* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon only strong enough to shake the ground) become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack that rival these in power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

to:

* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure Yeah sure, while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses possess the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase increases their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its it's supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach reaches higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS (which in canon is only strong enough to shake the ground) ground), or become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
SYSTEM.
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives give similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and a SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack attacks that rival these in power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash unleashes a massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than the OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power(which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS(which in canon only strong enough to shake the ground) become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack that rival these in power ? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

to:

* ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power(which power (which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS(which BFS (which in canon only strong enough to shake the ground) become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives similar but better SuperMode like candies. In ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack that rival these in power ? power? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.
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** Unfortunately, it falls prey to the above example as well, where weapon wielding heroes don't swing any faster. And made even stranger is some characters that invest in no strength at all and use primarily physical attacks, could do just about as much damage as another who did.

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** Unfortunately, it falls prey to the above example as well, where weapon wielding heroes don't swing any faster. And made even stranger is because some characters that invest in no strength at all and use primarily physical attacks, could do just about as much damage as another who did.
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*** Hand speed can indeed be separate from punching power. This is because it often refers to something other than the speed of the boxer's hand at impact. Boxers who are referred to as having high hand speed are those who can quickly and unexpectedly punch and return to their guard, allowing them to fire off many punches in rapid succession. This can be achieved through throwing your fists faster, which will increase power, but it can also be achieved by reducing the length of the punching arc, and reducing the amount of lower body motion powering the punch. "Arm punches," punches using only or primarily the arm muscles to generate force, can therefore be considerably "faster" in that they're more difficult to see coming and can be fired quickly in large numbers, but punches using the whole body to generate force are atually moving much faster at impact. In professional boxing, where the number of times you strike your opponent is less important than the damage you do, the latter kind of punch is preferred.

to:

*** Hand speed can indeed be separate from punching power. This is because it often refers to something other than the speed of the boxer's hand at impact. Boxers who are referred to as having high hand speed are those who can quickly and unexpectedly punch and return to their guard, allowing them to fire off many punches in rapid succession. This can be achieved through throwing your fists faster, which will increase power, but it can also be achieved by reducing the length of the punching arc, and reducing the amount of lower body motion powering the punch. "Arm punches," punches using only or primarily the arm muscles to generate force, can therefore be considerably "faster" in that they're more difficult to see coming and can be fired quickly in large numbers, but punches using the whole body to generate force are atually actually moving much faster at impact. In professional boxing, where the number of times you strike your opponent is less important than the damage you do, the latter kind of punch is preferred.
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*** This is explained by which muscles are being enhanced. The damage enhancement enhances the arm muscles significantly, whereas the lift enhancement augments the arm, back, shoulders, and legs. i.e. the damage one your arms could take the stress, but you'd still throw out your back or bust all of your joints.

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*** This is explained by which muscles are being enhanced. The damage enhancement enhances the arm muscles significantly, whereas the lift enhancement augments the arm, back, shoulders, and legs. i.e. with the damage one your arms could take the stress, but you'd still throw out your back or bust all of your joints.



** As does the [[DeusExInvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.

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** As does the [[DeusExInvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity capacity, it lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.
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** As does the [[InvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.

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** As does the [[InvisibleWar [[DeusExInvisibleWar sequel game]], which not only gives you greater carrying capacity lets you kill lower level enemies by throwing said boxes at them.
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it\'s supposed to have exceptions


* The Pokèmon series has this in spades with [=HMs=].You may have a Scyther who knows how to slice and dice anything in four different fashions, but to get rid of that little shrub blocking your way, you'll need a Pokèmon who knows the (much statistically weaker) move Cut.
** Also applicable with Rock Smash and Strength, two other HMs with relatively low base power.
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* ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]]'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.

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* ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]]'' ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.



* In ''DigitalDevilSaga'' Heat shows off his near single minded devotion of his stats points to strength quite well in cut scenes, even when untransformed he is able to break down stone walls and effortlessly lift people by their throat one handedly.

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* In ''DigitalDevilSaga'' ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'' Heat shows off his near single minded devotion of his stats points to strength quite well in cut scenes, even when untransformed he is able to break down stone walls and effortlessly lift people by their throat one handedly.
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Interesting trivia, to be sure, but not really related to this trope and definitely not a subversion of it.


** Certain players subvert this by getting "HM slaves", or extra Pokémon that are not trained with the main team (and are consequently weaker), but are taught HMs that the player would rather not teach to a main team member.
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* SuperRobotWars is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power(which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS(which in canon only strong enough to shake the ground) become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives similar but better SuperMode like candies. In SuperRobotWarsK, this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack that rival these in power ? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.

to:

* SuperRobotWars ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWars'' is really guilty of this thanks to the attack damage numbers. However a good and possibly best example might be the gameplay potrayal of MazinKaiser and Mazingers in general. MazinKaiser is well known for its unstoppable defense, not its power(which is by the game story considered strong but just high standard of SuperRobotGenre) and Mazingers are supposed to be really standard in term of power and specialize in their Endurance therefore making them MightyGlacier. Yeah, sure while MazinKaiser is strong in defense, its offense sure isnt as standard as the story suggest. Since they posses the SuperMode Mazinpower which increase their attack power by 25 %, this turns their attack FAR stronger than its supposed to be. It says something when its standard ChestBlaster reach higher power level than Explosions like [[HadesProjectZeorymer Mei-oh]] or Final Kaiser Blade BFS(which in canon only strong enough to shake the ground) become even more powerful than [[GaoGaiGar Genesic Crusher]] which destroyed the SOLAR SYSTEM
** This is so big of an issue that some newer games gives similar but better SuperMode like candies. In SuperRobotWarsK, ''VideoGame/SuperRobotWarsK'', this is played straight again, both numerically speaking and SuperMode issue is present. The OriginalGeneration has an attack buff and an attack that punch the enemy to outer space and blast them. KotetsushinJeeg is capable of highest damage thanks to an attack buff SuperMode and a CombinationAttack EleventhHourSuperpower SuperMode. One of the strongest attack that rival these in power ? [[GunXSword Dann of Thursday]] Overflow sword slash that just unleash massive pillar of energy to the skies, and drop it to slam his target and proceed to do a follow up cut in two. Its power is numerically stronger than OriginalGeneration attack that is gained later, and not much lower than the Jeegs. Yeah there's a reason why Dann is such a GameBreaker.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The first two ''Fallout'' games also have the opposite effect if you use Intelligence as a [[DumpStat dump stat]], leaving you with a character who is effectively brain damaged. All your dialogue options for the entire game are replaced with suitably dim-witted alternatives and certain non-player characters actually recognise that you will be totally incapable of following simple instructions and so will complete important quests for you!
** Likewise, ''Fallout'''s spiritual sequel ''{{Arcanum}}'' contains all of the above examples, as well as numerous others. If one achieves 20 strength and dexterity, you will be preternaturally powerful and able to easily solve any problem you can murder your way out of. This is greatly helped by the lack of cutscenes to move the story along.

to:

** The first two ''Fallout'' ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'' games also have the opposite effect if you use Intelligence as a [[DumpStat dump stat]], leaving you with a character who is effectively brain damaged. All your dialogue options for the entire game are replaced with suitably dim-witted alternatives and certain non-player characters actually recognise that you will be totally incapable of following simple instructions and so will complete important quests for you!
** Likewise, ''Fallout'''s spiritual sequel ''{{Arcanum}}'' ''VideoGame/ArcanumOfSteamworksAndMagickObscura'' contains all of the above examples, as well as numerous others. If one achieves 20 strength and dexterity, you will be preternaturally powerful and able to easily solve any problem you can murder your way out of. This is greatly helped by the lack of cutscenes to move the story along.



** In ''NeverwinterNights'', the character's intelligence and wisdom scores affect what dialogue options are offered. Dumb characters get grunting, wise ones intuitive solutions, and smart ones lore.
** Especially important in ''PlanescapeTorment'', where each stat has an effect on at least a few non-combat choices. Because each level gives you another point to place in any stat, whether you've been packing them all into dexterity and wisdom or strength and endurance will determine whether you spot and disarm the trap, or take it like a man.

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** In ''NeverwinterNights'', ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights'', the character's intelligence and wisdom scores affect what dialogue options are offered. Dumb characters get grunting, wise ones intuitive solutions, and smart ones lore.
lore. On the other hand, the Charisma score doesn't play as large a role in conversations as it could, which was one of the reasons ''VideoGame/ADanceWithRogues'' mod was created.
** Especially important in ''PlanescapeTorment'', ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'', where each stat has an effect on at least a few non-combat choices. Because each level gives you another point to place in any stat, whether you've been packing them all into dexterity and wisdom or strength and endurance will determine whether you spot and disarm the trap, or take it like a man.



** ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' does this; improved attributes open up new conversation options, so a particularly intelligent or perceptive character will pick up subtleties that others might miss. The sequel does even more of it.

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** ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' does this; improved attributes open up new conversation options, so a particularly intelligent or perceptive character will pick up subtleties that others might miss. The sequel does even more of it.

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* ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]]'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.
** And, in a more direct aversion, there is one giant door in particular which you can open by brute force if your Strength stat is high enough. The reward you get is pretty good, too.
** There's also the Warp Zones separating each Kalpa in the ''Labyrinth of Amala'', some kind of minigame where you get coins and items while dodging or breaking obstacles: Strength allows you to break more resistant obstacles, Vitality reduces the amount of HP and money lost when you hit obstacles, Agility lets you move faster, and Luck raises the chances of items appearing.



* ''[[ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne]]'' has doors which will test your statistics (or sometimes those of your demon allies) in order to see if you are worthy of being allowed passage.
** And, in a more direct aversion, there is one giant door in particular which you can open by brute force if your Strength stat is high enough. The reward you get is pretty good, too.
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Natter


** A pity, too - the sword requires no physical abilities to be used normally once it has been pulled out, though the PC version does let the player simply give it to themselves.
*** Why should it? It would be somewhat redundant, given that you are supposed to have high stats to get it in the first place. (Technically they don't need to be maxed; they can also be sufficiently higher than when you first try it.)

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