History Main / ReliablyUnreliableGuns

* In ''{{Commando}}'', Cook is knocked into the next room while fighting Matrix, which somehow makes the gun fire its last two rounds.

* Averted in the reimagined ''BattlestarGalactica'' when a drunk Adama takes Tigh's sidearm from the locker, chambers a round, presumably flicks off the safety and tosses the weapon on the table, where it bounces quite a bit but does not go off.

Evidently, Hollywood doesn't trust the "big brands" when it comes to guns, as there are two things you can usually expect to see with firearms depicted in fiction:

To a very limited extent, this can be TruthInTelevision, as it's possible to jam a weapon so severely that serious work is needed to get it back in order, and every now and then you will hear about gunmakers issuing safety recalls on guns that aren't drop-safe. But that does sort of prove the point about Hollywood's approach: the gun is being recalled because its discharging when dropped is '''not''' normal in RealLife.

* The Chauchat was the most widely-produced automatic weapon in World War I and had a number of features seen on modern assault rifles, such as a pistol grip, in-line stock, and fire rate selector. However, it was made in a hurry and with little attention to detail; specifically, detail that would make it usable. The open-sided magazines would inevitably become clogged with dirt, it had an overly-complex long recoil system that created rather violent recoil and lowered accuracy, the screws holding the side plates would become loose after prolonged firing, and quality was rarely consistent over the parts, or even among manufacturers; Gladiator-made guns, specifically, would often have the sights misaligned. The quality and consistency of production were actually so bad that parts could not be interchanged from rifle to rifle. Problems became worse when the Americans entered the war and were issued Chauchats converted to .30-06. The gun had trouble extracting the long, straight cases and was hardly up to the stresses of the powerful round. It was so poor that it was used only as a training weapon, and they were all destroyed after the war.
** Post war analysis showed that around half the Chauchats used in combat were dropped as useless by their operator before they could fire off an entire magazine. It jammed often and easily due to the above mentioned reasons, and the only way to unjam it was complete dis and reassembly--less then recommended in the heat of battle in no-man's-land. You may as well charge into that trench with nothing but a knife, because it will likely out perform the Chauchat when it turns into an overly-elaborate and cumbersome metal club.

* In ''[[SaintsRow Saint's Row 2]]'', you interrupt the trial of your partner Johnny Gat and hold up a bailiff. At your command, the bailiff drops his gun, which goes off, prompting everyone to duck for cover and Gat's lawyer to ask if anyone got hit and needs his expertise.

* More TruthInTelevision: Ask anyone who knew about the problems with the M16 in Vietnam. Many, many soldiers grabbed AK-47s off the dead Charlies instead of having to deal with weapons that were notorious for jamming at the most inopportune moments, for various reasons intentional and accidental (primarily the latter).

* More TruthInTelevision: Ask anyone who knew about the problems with the M16 in Vietnam. Many, many soldiers grabbed AK-47s off the dead Charlies instead of having to deal with their crap guns.
** To be fair to the M16, this was caused because the average soldier in Vietnam thought that the M16 was so advanced that it didn't need maintenance. After the Army started the "My Sweet 16" campaign in Army publications and gave out cleaning kits for free, the failure rate dropped dramatically.
*** The average soldier thought that it didn't need maintenance because the Army '''told''' him it didn't. When first issued, soldiers were told the rifle was "self-cleaning" and didn't need any maintenance. There was also issues with neither the bore nor the chamber being chrome-lined, which the inventor insisted was necessary. The [=M16A1=] was finally given a chrome-lined chamber (and later, the entire bore).
*** To those who don't know, chrome lined chambers and inner parts are necessary, especially for high humidity environments like Vietnam, because otherwise, the steel will corrode and rust, and stainless steel can't be used because it is too brittle. The manufacturers apparently thought this was a luxury, so guns would rust shut very rapidly, and render them useless. As noted below, there were other... less innocent reasons why the guns were manufactured in a way that made them essentially useless.
** Not only that, but the ammo given to soldiers was initially [[http://world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm obsolete ball-powder]] that wasn't up to spec. In other words, the rifle was [[BlessedWithSuck screwed by others]].
*** Most of the problems with the M16 (not the [=M16A1=], which was the improved version) were caused by the Army Ordnance Board's attempts to sabotage the rifle and go back to the M14. Not issuing cleaning kits or training soldiers to clean it was a big part of this. There was no proper training at first (just firing off a few rounds into the treeline on full auto), no armorer's manual, nothing. The actions of the Army Ordnance Board were frankly criminal, and got many soldiers killed.
** The original point remains, however. US soldiers in Vietnam would often use AK-47s from fallen enemies, simply because, even with the improvements and cleaning kits, the AK-47s were still far more reliable than the [=M16s=]. Another reason stated was that the heavier 7.62mm round was less likely to be deflected by vegetation than the lighter 5.56mm used by the M16.
*** Quite apart from the above points, Soviet weapons were designed so that, if they got sucker-punched, they could immediately conscript people, give them a little training, and send them to hold the line, as happened in WWII. That meant the guns were designed with loose tolerances, which granted reliability at the cost of accuracy. This, incidentally, is why the AK-47 is the most popular assault rifle in the world (it also didn't hurt that the Soviets gave them away like candy). Anyone can use one, as long as they haven't watched too many movies and think something like firing from the hip is anything but an appallingly stupid idea.
**** One does note that on a lot of Soviet weapons, they cut every imaginable corner during manufacture, but anything remaining that they spent money on was important. Those who have had the opportunity to examine, for example, a 1970s-80s production AKM or AK-74, will note that the receiver and dust cover are stamped sheet metal riveted together, and not even very heavy stamped sheet metal. The buttstock and handguard, and from some plants even the pistol grip look like they were whittled out of plywood fruit crates by a small child with a dull knife. The metal finish is usually black enamel paint applied sloppily with a spray gun, which chips and scratches easily. Even the ammunition is generally loaded in lacquered steel cases instead of brass, because brass costs more than steel. But they spent real money to do the hardchrome lining on the bore and chamber and the interior of the gas cylinder, and hardchrome plated the gas piston too. The springs, also, are good steel, well made with correct heat treatment. It looks like a piece of junk slapped together for the Volkssturm in 1945. But it ''works'' and tolerates abuse and neglect that would destroy many other designs in short order. Same with the old [=PPS43=] and [=PPSh41=] machine pistols, same with the PKM belt-fed GPMG, same with wartime-production Mosin-Nagant rifles.
**** They were even better at cutting corners than you'd think. Do you know why ALL pre-74 Soviet small arms, Nagant revolvers, Mosin-Nagant rifles, PKM belt-fed GPMG, [=PPD 1940G=] [=PPS42=], [=PPS43=] and [=PPSh41=] machine pistols, AK-47's, Tokarev model TT-33 pistols etc. were chambered for a 7.62 bullet? Because, even thought the Soviet Union used several different 7.62 rounds, if they ran critically sort of barrels for ''anything'', they'd slice up old Tsarist Mosin-Nagant rifles to the appropriate length and use that. In WW2 they were mass-producing [=PPS42=] machine pistols from old rifles INSIDE Leningrad in the worst parts of the siege; they could barely feed themselves, but they could churn out machine pistols by the thousand, three per old rifle recycled.
** Recent news stories have gone into detail about failures of the M4 carbine compared to newer "piston-driven" variants such as the [=HK416=]. In a completely unrelated note, the M4 contract comes up for renewal in 2012...
*** The unreliability of the M4 has been exaggerated of late, and considering the the army's cancellation of their Mk 16 orders, combined with the overall success of the M4 in the greater world market, the carbine ain't going nowhere. It just doesn't make sense to replace a weapon for a near identical one with no advantages in stopping power, ergonomics, accuracy, etc.
*** It bears mentioning that the M16's direct-impingement gas operating system, while cutting down on parts, mechanical complexity, and weight, may have been an AwesomeButImpractical idea that inherently hurt the overall reliability of the design. Most gas-operated 5.56 mm rifles built after the M16 (including Eugene Stoner's AR-18) have been piston-driven instead.
** One somewhat annoying quirk that is still common in many AR-15 variants is their tendency for the action to cycle if the weapon is dropped or bumped just so. This is easy to cope with once you're aware of it, but it means that your weapon can go from loaded but not readied (ie: safe) to readied (ie: cocked, locked, and ready to rock) with the safety OFF without your knowledge. This can be EXTREMELY dangerous, especially when it can take as little as going over a big bump while riding in a vehicle or dropping your weapon to cause it. Yikes.
* Debate on [=GLOCK=]s moved to discussion page.

* In the Old West, experienced horsemen would only load five rounds into their single-action revolvers and have the hammer resting on the empty chamber. That was because while tightening the cinch on their horse's saddle, they would hook the stirrup over the saddle horn. If the stirrup came loose it could fall back into place and strike the pistol's hammer, causing it to discharge if there was a loaded round in the chamber. This defect in single-action revolvers was not corrected until the Ruger New Model Blackhawk revolver came on the market in 1973.

** Remington actually had this solved as early as the civil war, as their revolvers had grooves in the cylinders between the chambers where the hammer could safely be rested. For some reason, it didn't catch on.
*** It didn't catch on because it doesn't work with hammer-fixed firing pins (as opposed to the flat hammers used by cap and ball revolvers). Colt did the same thing with their black-powder cap and ball revolvers. Ruger's innovation was the transfer bar, which let them mount a spring-loaded firing pin inside the frame itself.

* Also, the Ross Rifle, designed as a substitute for the Lee Enfield, was used by the Canadian military during WWI. The Ross was easier to dis/reassemble and a pound lighter than the Enfield. It also was prone to the bolt deforming or falling out, it jammed with the slightest dirt, and the bolt occasionally threw itself out of the gun when fired. Needless to say, the soldiers usually ditched them for Enfields as soon as they got to Europe.

<<|GunsAndGunplayTropes|>>

* Averted in a recent episode of ''CSINewYork'', where Mac Taylor and his gun fall at least 30 feet onto a hard tiled floor -- the gun bounces, but doesn't go off.
* Averted in the reimagined ''BattlestarGalactica'' when a drunk Adama takes Tighs sidearm from the locker, chambers a round, presumably flicks off the safety and tosses the weapon on the table, where it bounces quite a bit but does not go off.

** When the [=SA80=] A2 rolled out a few years ago, all of these problems went away. It's now an excellent weapon - ask anyone who has used it on a daily basis - and comparable with anything else out there (if still a little heavy). It's also terrifically accurate. Although, yes, the A1 was crap.
*** The A2 was de-facto made by H&K, then part of the 'British Aerospace' group.
** Occasionally this happens with new designs, as of late 2008 two new models of Ruger pistols, the LCP and SR9, were recalled for parts replacement due to potential discharge if dropped.

** Most sources mention the biggest issue with the Sten wasn't the mechanism, but rather the magazines (which were made to looser tolerances).
*** The Sten was actually designed to use the same magazines as the MP40 (used by Britain's ''principal enemy'' at the time).
** It's not only that but the first Sten was made with no safety measures, especially with the bolt in forward position (if it was in back position, the cocking handle could be at least put on a notch in the gun's body).

** Also of note, some older military surplus weapons [[BreakOutTheMuseumPeice (milsurps)]] may be filled with cosmoline, which is used to preserve firearms for storage. In order to remove cosmoline, give the gun a bath and scrub it with paint thinner.

** Also of note, some older military surplus weapons [[BreakOutTheMuseumPeice (milsurps)]] may be filled with cosmoline, which is used to preserve firearms for storage. In order to remove cosmoline, give the gun a bath and scrubbing with paint thinner.

* ''{{Monk}}'', ''Mr. Monk On Wheels.'' Natalie somehow manages to fire a gun by whirling around excitedly [[spoiler: and the bullet manages to hit Monk square in the leg opposite of where he got hit before.]]

*** Quite apart from the above points, Soviet weapons were designed so that, if they got sucker-punched, they could immediately conscript people, give them a little training, and send them to hold the line, as happened in WWII. That meant the guns were designed with loose tolerances, which granted reliability at the cost of accuracy. This, incidentally, is why the AK-47 is the most popular assault rifle in the world. Anyone can use one, as long as they haven't watched too many movies and think something like firing from the hip is anything but an appallingly stupid idea.

** This Troper was injured using one of these weapons (1750s British Long Land Pattern musket, specifically) when an ember stayed in the barrel and he reloaded. Consider these are muzzle-loaded and his particular weapon was just long enough to be [[NoOSHACompliance at eye level when standing]]. This was a common occurance in early firearms.

**** One does note that on a lot of Soviet weapons, they cut every imaginable corner during manufacture, but anything remaining that they spent money on was important. Those who have had the opportunity to examine, for example, a 1970s-production AKM, or a 1970s-80s production AK-74, will note that the receiver and dust cover are stamped sheet metal riveted together, and not even very heavy stamped sheet metal. The buttstock and handguard, and from some plants even the pistol grip look like they were whittled out of plywood fruit crates by a small child with a dull knife. The metal finish is usually black enamel paint applied sloppily with a spray gun, which chips and scratches easily. Even the ammunition is generally loaded in lacquered steel cases instead of brass, because brass costs more than steel. But they spent real money to do the hardchrome lining on the bore and chamber and the interior of the gas cylinder, and hardchrome plated the gas piston too. The springs, also, are good steel, well made with correct heat treatment. It looks like a piece of junk slapped together for the Volkssturm in 1945. But it WORKS and tolerates abuse and neglect that would destroy many other designs in short order. Same with the old [=PPS43=] and [=PPSh41=] machine pistols, same with the PKM belt-fed GPMG, same with wartime-production Mosin-Nagant rifles.
**** Even still, many poorer countries' armies or militias will use their [=AKs=] in such a manner (to [[ATeamFiring very little effect]]). I've seen photos of African militia fighters firing [=AKs=] while ''holding them above their heads''.
***** Interestingly, this one may have more to do with personal beliefs than gun knowledge. In Arabic countries, or at least some fighters in Afghanistan, many people believe that firing in this manner means they didn't actually kill anyone (which is a sin) because clearly, if somebody got hurt, it had to be Allah himself that guided the bullets!