History Main / ReasoningWithGod

** Towards the end of ''Discworld/SmallGods'', the seemingly simple-minded Brutha, who has just been made high priest of his religion, talks his own god Om into letting Brutha take the religion on a radically more tolerant and open-minded course. Many years later in other books, characters occasionally mention that the religion is very popular because of those principles.
** In the Death-based book ''Discworld/ReaperMan'', Death, is removed from his position by the Auditors of Reality, who replace him, in pure bureaucratic fashion, with hundreds if not thousands of hyper-specialized Deaths for every kind of living being. After defeating the worst of them all -- the newer, unfeeling, and uncaring and self-aggrandizing Death of Men -- the original Death then goes to one of the [[PowersThatBe Eight Old High Ones]], Azrael, Death of Universes, and pleads his case:

* Laurie talks with Dr. Manhattan on Mars in ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'' and convinces him to come back to Earth to help with the current crisis. Of course, it's exactly what he ''told'' her would happen at the end of their conversation and why he swung back to Earth to pick her up when the time came[[note]]still, it wasn't pointless: he ''wouldn't'' have changed his mind if she hadn't convinced him to, he just foresaw that it would happen[[/note]].

-->-- Exodus 32:11-14

-> '''Kissinger:''' The idea behind the alliance was sound. We did not entirely understand how things stood at the time, but even if we had, I would have made the same suggestion. Brezhnev was getting too strong, especially with the Vietnamese and the South American communist movements. We did what we had to do. If the good Lord disagrees with me, I will be happy to point out His tactical errors.

* On ''Series/MysteryScienceTheater3000'', they spoof this trope while watching Jack Frost, specifically the scene where the girl has to finish her sock before the sun rises, and the girl asks the sun to wait.

* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': Ben Sisko gets the Prophets to intervene during the climax of the episode "Sacrifice of Angels"; they wipe out an entire Dominion fleet entering the wormhole. Another episode has his Bajoran first-officer, who reveres the Prophets [[SufficientlyAdvancedAliens as something like Gods]], point out how special his relationship with the Prophets is; they not only speak ''to'' him directly, but also ''listen'' when he tries to talk or argue with them.

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* Eärendil in ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'' successfully convinces the Valar to abandon their isolationist policies and save Middle-Earth from Morgoth.
** Lúthien also convinces Mandos to bring Beren back to life, in exchange for turning her into a mortal.

--->[[AC:What can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man?]]

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* Creator/IsaacAsimov's "Literature/TheLastTrump": ArchangelGabriel announces that it's time for Judgement Day, but Etheriel, a junior angel, points out a loophole in the declaration, plucks up his courage, and successfully argues for the whole thing to be postponed. (God's reaction to the argument turns out to be, more or less, "Oh good, I was hoping somebody would bring that up".)

* In "The Last Trump" by Creator/IsaacAsimov, God announces that it's time for the Judgement Day, but a junior angel notices a loophole in the declaration, plucks up his courage, and successfully argues for the whole thing to be postponed. (God's reaction to the argument turns out to be, more or less, "Oh good, I was hoping somebody would bring that up".)

** Another episode has Quark of all people do this when convincing the Prophets to undo a change they made to his own spiritual leader (regressing him to pre-{{Planet of Hats}} state). First he tries to argue that [[WallStreet greed is a virtue]] and essential to corporeal beings, but [[IncrediblyLamePun they don't buy it]] and declare they'll just do the same thing to him and send him on his way too. He manages to convince them by pointing out that if they do, it will just attract ''more'' of his kind to come looking for answers. They recognize his "linear" logic, concede to undo their changes to his leader, and make him promise that neither he nor anyone else from his species will come bother them again.

** Another episode has Quark of all people do this when convincing the Prophets to undo a change they made to his own spiritual leader (regressing him to pre-{{Planet of Hats}} state). First he tries to argue that GreedIsGood, but [[IncrediblyLamePun they don't buy it]] and declare they'll just do the same thing to him and send him on his way too. He manages to convince them by pointing out that if they do, it will just attract ''more'' of his kind to come looking for answers. They recognize his "linear" logic, concede to undo their changes to his leader, and make him promise that neither he nor anyone else from his species will come bother them again.

* [[Film/ConanTheBarbarian1982 Conan]] manages an unusual variant when he prays to his patron, Krom, just before the final showdown. Krom is a stoic and aloof warrior god, one who teaches that his followers should be strong enough to solve their own problems (and thus ''asking'' for his help displeases him, so he never grants it). But Conan's heartfelt prayer strikes just the right balance of humility (I probably can't win this fight), honor (I'm going to fight anyway), and bravado (If you won't help, screw you anyway!) that Krom actually sends him a minor miracle, just enough to give Conan a ''chance''.

* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': Ben Sisko gets the Prophets to intervene during the climax of the episode "Sacrifice of Angels"; they wipe out an entire Dominion fleet entering the wormhole. Another episode has Quark of all people do this, by pointing out that if they erase his memory of the conversation and send him back he'll just keep having the same idea and coming back, but if they do what he asks (undoing something they'd done to another visitor for wasting their time) instead the story will spread and nobody will bother them with mundane matters again.

** In the Death-based book ''Discworld/ReaperMan'', Death, is removed from his position by the Auditors of Reality, who replace him, in pure bureaucratic fashion, with hundreds if not thousands of hyper-specialized Deaths for every kind of living being. After defeating the worst of them all -- the newer, unfeeling, and uncaring and self-aggrandizing Death of Men -- the original Death then goes to one of the [[PowersThatBe Eight Old High Ones]], Azrael, Death of Universes, and [[spoiler:successfully]] pleads his case:

* Towards the end of Literature/{{Discworld}} novel ''Discworld/SmallGods'', the seemingly simple-minded Brutha, who has just been made high priest of his religion, talks his own god Om into letting Brutha take the religion on a radically more tolerant and open-minded course. Many years later in other books, characters occasionally mention that the religion is very popular because of those principles.
** In the Death-based book ''Discworld/ReaperMan'', Death, is removed from his position by the Auditors of Reality, who replace him, in pure bureaucratic fashion, with hundreds if not thousands of hyper-specialized Deaths for every kind of living being. After defeating the worst of them all -- the newer, unfeeling, and uncaring and self-aggrandizing Death of Men-- the original Death then goes to one of the [[PowersThatBe Eight Old High Ones]], Azrael, Death of Universes, and [[spoiler:successfully]] pleads his case:
** [[AC:What can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man?]]

--> ''But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. "Lord," he said, "why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, 'It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth'? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.'" Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.''
---> -- Exodus 32:11-14

* Several instances in ''Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality'' of mortals at least attempting to convince Incarnations to intervene and change an event, most notably Niobe's efforts to reverse first husband Cedric's death. When Kerena can't get any Incarnation to listen to her (she's trying to save her baby's life), she [[spoiler: becomes Nox, Incarnation of Night, and launches a centuries-long series of plots and manipulations not only to get revenge on the Incarnations of her time, but to help place Incarnations she considers better for their jobs and to eventually gain back her child (sort of)]].

* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': Ben Sisko gets the Prophets to intervene during the climax of the episode "Sacrifice of Angels"; they wipe out an entire Dominion fleet entering the wormhole.

* There was an issue in ''ComicBook/SpiderMan'' where Spidey dies along with a little girl he was trying to save. After a brief fight with {{Thanos}}, he talks to [[TheGrimReaper Death]] herself, convincing her to allow a little girl to come back to life. In honor of his bravery, Spider-Man comes back as well.

* Subverted in ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick''. Roy gives a moving speech to the Northern Gods at the Godsmoot... but the moot chamber is set up for the gods to communicate through their priests, not for them to listen to mortals.

* [[Film/ConanTheBarbarian Conan]] manages an unusual variant when he prays to his patron, Krom, just before the final showdown. Krom is a stoic and aloof warrior god, one who teaches that his followers should be strong enough to solve their own problems (and thus ''asking'' for his help displeases him, so he never grants it). But Conan's heartfelt prayer strikes just the right balance of humility (I probably can't win this fight), honor (I'm going to fight anyway), and bravado (If you won't help, screw you anyway!) that Krom actually sends him a minor miracle, just enough to give Conan a ''chance''.

* [[ConanTheBarbarian Conan]] manages an unusual variant when he prays to his patron, Krom, just before the final showdown. Krom is a stoic and aloof warrior god, one who teaches that his followers should be strong enough to solve their own problems (and thus ''asking'' for his help displeases him, so he never grants it). But Conan's heartfelt prayer strikes just the right balance of humility (I probably can't win this fight), honor (I'm going to fight anyway), and bravado (If you won't help, screw you anyway!) that Krom actually sends him a minor miracle, just enough to give Conan a ''chance''.