Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
could we even list some of the rationality?
Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
* The story is a [[FanFiction|fanfiction]] FixFic or {{Deconstruction}} in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
to:
* The story is a [[FanFiction|fanfiction]] FixFic or {{Deconstruction}} in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, overlooked (aka "Munchkinism"), and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
Changed line(s) 36,38 (click to see context) from:
* "David's Sling" and "Earthweb" by Creator/MarcStiegler.
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky.
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}.
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky.
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}.
to:
* "David's Sling" and "Earthweb" by Creator/MarcStiegler.
Creator/MarcStiegler. Rationality principles invoked: Reasoned formal discussion and quantitative evaluation (in "David's Sling"), prediction markets (in "Earthweb").
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality byCreator/EliezerYudkowsky.
Creator/EliezerYudkowsky. Rationality principles invoked: Way too many to count - each chapter is titled after a different principle.
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}. Rationality principles invoked: Self-awareness, Munchkinism of opportunities.
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}. Rationality principles invoked: Self-awareness, Munchkinism of opportunities.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
As a corollary of this principle, the intelligence of a character in a RationalFic must never be an InformedAbility. We must see them being smart, not be told that they are smart. They must think of brilliant things to do which we ourselves could have realized are possible. As in a FairPlayWhodunnit, the character must make deductions that we ourselves could realistically have made. Only by solving puzzles which are, from the readers' perspective, at least slightly fair, can the character's good sense be convincingly exhibited. (Note that the ability to come up with smart ''options'' and ''strategies'' means that this is not strictly like a FairPlayWhodunnit.)
to:
As a corollary of this principle, the intelligence of a character in a RationalFic must never be an InformedAbility. We must see them being smart, not be told that they are smart. They must think of brilliant things to do which we ourselves could have realized are possible. As in a FairPlayWhodunnit, the character must make deductions that we ourselves could realistically have made. Only by solving puzzles which are, from the readers' perspective, at least slightly fair, can the character's good sense be convincingly exhibited. (Note that the ability to come up with exhibit smart ''options'' and ''strategies'' means that this is not strictly like the same principle as a FairPlayWhodunnit.FairPlayWhodunnit; and fair-play insights may happen throughout the novel, not just in ways relevant to a mystery plot.)
Changed line(s) 24,26 (click to see context) from:
That fandom developed a nascent tradition of writing their own "rational fics": often explicitly fanfiction by members of the LessWrong community, designed to teach the "rationality techniques" of that community. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]] Still, not always necessarily associated with LessWrong or even fanfics at all. Most are, though. Tend to make use of {{Deconstruction}} or {{Reconstruction}} in examining genre tropes.
Owing to the origins of this modern re-emergence, it is also often the case that in modern RationalFic:
Owing to the origins of this modern re-emergence, it is also often the case that in modern RationalFic:
to:
That fandom developed a nascent tradition of writing their own "rational fics": often explicitly fanfiction by members of the LessWrong community, designed to teach the "rationality techniques" of beloved by that community.author. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]] Still, not always necessarily associated with LessWrong or even fanfics at all. Most are, though. Tend to make use of {{Deconstruction}} or {{Reconstruction}} in examining genre tropes.
Owing to the origins ofthis the modern re-emergence, it is also often the case that in modern RationalFic:
Owing to the origins of
Changed line(s) 28,30 (click to see context) from:
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
* The story is a FanFiction FixFic or [[Deconstruction]] in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
* The story is a FanFiction FixFic or [[Deconstruction]] in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
to:
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
users.
* The story is aFanFiction [[FanFiction|fanfiction]] FixFic or [[Deconstruction]] {{Deconstruction}} in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
* The story is a
Changed line(s) 33,37 (click to see context) from:
Known rational fics:
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality: the first and most popular
* [[ThreeWorldsCollide Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality: the first and most popular
* [[ThreeWorldsCollide Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
to:
The oldest or best-written stories, which helped to define the genre.
* The Literature/NullA novels "The World Of Null-A" and "The Players Of Null-A" by Creater/AEVanVogt. Rationality principles invoked: "The map is not the territory", "Dog1 is not Dog2", stopping and thinking when something emotional happens (the "cortico-thalamic pause", as they called it).
* "David's Sling" and "Earthweb" by Creator/MarcStiegler.
* Fanfic/HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality by Creator/EliezerYudkowsky.
* {{Fanfic/Luminosity}} by {{Creator/Alicorn}}.
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Other rational
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality: the first and most popular
* [[ThreeWorldsCollide Three Worlds Collide]], also by
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
Deleted line(s) 41,44 (click to see context) :
* {{Accelerando}}, by Charles Stross: one of the first real novels to explore LessWrong's much-beloved [[TheSingularity Singularity]] tropes.
* Literature/FineStructure
* Literature/{{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
* Literature/FineStructure
* Literature/{{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
Deleted line(s) 49,50 (click to see context) :
* Literature/{{Ra}}
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
* [[https://twitter.com/HardSciFiMovies HardSciFiMovies]] on Twitter - deconstructing famous plots in 140 characters
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Sorta rational fics]]
Put a story here if you think it has some of the above properties, but not all, especially if it doesn't try to teach explicit rationality.
* {{Accelerando}}, by Charles Stross: one of the first real novels to explore LessWrong's much-beloved [[TheSingularity Singularity]] tropes.
* Literature/FineStructure
* Literature/{{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
* Literature/{{Ra}}
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
[[/folder]]
[[folder:Sorta rational fics]]
Put a story here if you think it has some of the above properties, but not all, especially if it doesn't try to teach explicit rationality.
* {{Accelerando}}, by Charles Stross: one of the first real novels to explore LessWrong's much-beloved [[TheSingularity Singularity]] tropes.
* Literature/FineStructure
* Literature/{{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
* Literature/{{Ra}}
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
Changed line(s) 54 (click to see context) from:
* [[https://twitter.com/HardSciFiMovies HardSciFiMovies]] on Twitter - deconstructing famous plots in 140 characters
to:
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Hi! Sorry to swoop in but I *did* kinda define the genre and I think a lot of this needs significant revision. If you still disagree after reading edits, maybe we could vote on it or something?
Changed line(s) 4,10 (click to see context) from:
In the shortest possible terms, a RationalFic is a story in which the character's intelligence is distinctly ''not'' an InformedAbility. They really do make clever deductions that the readers actually can follow, and the author really does provide the necessary facts to the reader, ''hoping'' they'll figure it out.
It's surprising how often authors ''don't'' do that, really.
The general characteristics of a rational fic:
* The characters aren't stupid. None of the main heroes or main villains hold the IdiotBall.
* The characters solve problems through the intelligent application of their knowledge and resources.
It's surprising how often authors ''don't'' do that, really.
The general characteristics of a rational fic:
* The characters aren't stupid. None of the main heroes or main villains hold the IdiotBall.
* The characters solve problems through the intelligent application of their knowledge and resources.
to:
In the shortest possible terms, most core sense, a RationalFic is a story in which allegedly brilliant reasoning by the characters is conferred not by mutation or native brilliance alone, but follows from explicit rules of thought meant to constitute normative rationality, which readers are intended to pick up from the story and use in real life.
The grandparent of all RationalFic is the ''Null-A'' series by Creator/AEVanVogt, based on the (in hindsight) mostly wrong work of Alfred Korzybski's General Semantics. Nonetheless, Korzybski was the originator of the phrase "The map is not the territory" and the idea that the word "dog" is an abstraction which can prevent us from seeing how Dog1 is not Dog2. And while most of the Null-A characters' abilities, like teleportation or lightning reflexes, are not things readers can use, the way that Gilbert Gosseyn reasons about [[spoiler:his own apparent death]] explicitly uses some of Korzybski's principles.
As a corollary of this principle, the intelligence of a character in a RationalFic must never be an InformedAbility. We must see them being smart, not be told that they are smart. They must think of brilliant things to do which we ourselves could have realized are possible. As in a FairPlayWhodunnit, the character must make deductions that we ourselves could realistically have made. Only by solving puzzles which are, from the readers' perspective, at least slightly fair, can the character'sintelligence is distinctly ''not'' an InformedAbility. They really do make clever deductions good sense be convincingly exhibited. (Note that the readers actually can follow, ability to come up with smart ''options'' and ''strategies'' means that this is not strictly like a FairPlayWhodunnit.)
Thus theauthor really does provide the necessary facts to the reader, ''hoping'' they'll figure it out.
It's surprising how often authors ''don't'' do that, really.
The generalsecondary characteristics of a rational fic:
RationalFic:
*The characters aren't Nobody important is stupid. None of the main heroes or main villains hold the IdiotBall.
IdiotBall. Rational protagonists often face rational (or at least very intelligent) opposition to maintain the story's power balance.
* The characters solve problems throughthe intelligent application insightful or unexpected applications of their knowledge and resources.resources (as opposed to pulling out yet more intense magical powers).
The grandparent of all RationalFic is the ''Null-A'' series by Creator/AEVanVogt, based on the (in hindsight) mostly wrong work of Alfred Korzybski's General Semantics. Nonetheless, Korzybski was the originator of the phrase "The map is not the territory" and the idea that the word "dog" is an abstraction which can prevent us from seeing how Dog1 is not Dog2. And while most of the Null-A characters' abilities, like teleportation or lightning reflexes, are not things readers can use, the way that Gilbert Gosseyn reasons about [[spoiler:his own apparent death]] explicitly uses some of Korzybski's principles.
As a corollary of this principle, the intelligence of a character in a RationalFic must never be an InformedAbility. We must see them being smart, not be told that they are smart. They must think of brilliant things to do which we ourselves could have realized are possible. As in a FairPlayWhodunnit, the character must make deductions that we ourselves could realistically have made. Only by solving puzzles which are, from the readers' perspective, at least slightly fair, can the character's
Thus the
It's surprising how often authors ''don't'' do that, really.
The general
*
* The characters solve problems through
Deleted line(s) 12 (click to see context) :
* [[GreyAndGrayMorality Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values]], not just by being [[LightIsNotGood "good"]] or [[DarkIsNotEvil "evil"]].
* Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being [[LightIsNotGood "good"]] or [[DarkIsNotEvil "evil"]].
Changed line(s) 17,20 (click to see context) from:
* The story teaches sound lessons about rationalist techniques, which can be applied to readers' lives.
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
to:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
Added DiffLines:
Owing to the origins of this modern re-emergence, it is also often the case that in modern RationalFic:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
* The story is a FanFiction FixFic or [[Deconstruction]] in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
* The story is a FanFiction FixFic or [[Deconstruction]] in which the characters take advantage of opportunities previously overlooked, and any rules of magic are further hardened or revealed to have underlying principles.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Has a TV Tropes page.
Changed line(s) 41 (click to see context) from:
* [[http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cambist-and-lord-iron-a-fairy-tale-of-economics/ The Cambist and Lord Iron]]: a fairy-tale of economics
to:
* [[http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cambist-and-lord-iron-a-fairy-tale-of-economics/ The Cambist and Lord Iron]]: Literature/TheCambistAndLordIron: a fairy-tale of economics
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 47 (click to see context) from:
* Literature/WizBiz by Rick Cook
to:
* Literature/WizBiz by Rick CookCook
* [[https://twitter.com/HardSciFiMovies HardSciFiMovies]] on Twitter - deconstructing famous plots in 140 characters
* [[https://twitter.com/HardSciFiMovies HardSciFiMovies]] on Twitter - deconstructing famous plots in 140 characters
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* The characters aren't stupid. No one holds the IdiotBall (or at least not the main heroes or main villains).
to:
* The characters aren't stupid. No one holds the IdiotBall (or at least not None of the main heroes or main villains).villains hold the IdiotBall.
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
* The rules of the fictional world are [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]]. They should also be [[MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness sane]] and if they are not then the characters should notice that.
to:
* The rules of the fictional world are [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]]. They should also be consistent]] and [[MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness sane]] and if they are not then the characters should notice that.
sane]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 36,37 (click to see context) from:
* FineStructure
* {{Worm}}
* {{Worm}}
to:
* FineStructure
Literature/FineStructure
*{{Worm}}Literature/{{Worm}}
*
Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
* {{Ra}}
to:
* {{Ra}}Literature/{{Ra}}
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
* PartingWords and TheGreatAlicornHunt: in-universe rational!MLPFIM fanfics
to:
* PartingWords and TheGreatAlicornHunt: in-universe rational!MLPFIM fanficsfanfics
* Literature/WizBiz by Rick Cook
* Literature/WizBiz by Rick Cook
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
softened the rule about sane and consistent world
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
* The rules of the fictional world are [[MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness sane]] and [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]].
to:
* The rules of the fictional world are [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]]. They should also be [[MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness sane]] and [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]].
if they are not then the characters should notice that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 30 (click to see context) from:
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
to:
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ [[ThreeWorldsCollide Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
Deleted line(s) 44 (click to see context) :
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9794740/1/Pokemon-The-Origin-of-Species Pokemon: The Origin of Species]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46 (click to see context) from:
* [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-77cUxba-aA Twisted]]: rational!Aladdin ... the musical
to:
* [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-77cUxba-aA Twisted]]: rational!Aladdin ... the musicalmusical
* PartingWords and TheGreatAlicornHunt: in-universe rational!MLPFIM fanfics
* PartingWords and TheGreatAlicornHunt: in-universe rational!MLPFIM fanfics
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Better link target for \"readers can reach...\"
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* The story is like a puzzle; [[ViewersAreGeniuses readers can reach the same solution as the characters]] by using the information provided earlier in the story.
to:
* The story is like a puzzle; [[ViewersAreGeniuses [[FairPlayWhoDunnit readers can reach the same solution as the characters]] by using the information provided earlier in the story.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Adding to list
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]: DeathNote fanfiction trying to show what more realistic standards of reasoning would allow the main characters to achieve.
to:
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]: DeathNote fanfiction trying to show what more realistic standards of reasoning would allow the main characters to achieve.achieve.
* [[http://squid314.livejournal.com/324957.html The Last Temptation of Christ]]: a funny, short one-piece
* [[http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cambist-and-lord-iron-a-fairy-tale-of-economics/ The Cambist and Lord Iron]]: a fairy-tale of economics
* [[http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/05/27/transhumanist-fables/ Transhumanist Fables]]
* {{Ra}}
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9794740/1/Pokemon-The-Origin-of-Species Pokemon: The Origin of Species]]
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
* [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-77cUxba-aA Twisted]]: rational!Aladdin ... the musical
* [[http://squid314.livejournal.com/324957.html The Last Temptation of Christ]]: a funny, short one-piece
* [[http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cambist-and-lord-iron-a-fairy-tale-of-economics/ The Cambist and Lord Iron]]: a fairy-tale of economics
* [[http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/05/27/transhumanist-fables/ Transhumanist Fables]]
* {{Ra}}
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9794740/1/Pokemon-The-Origin-of-Species Pokemon: The Origin of Species]]
* [[http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm Blindsight]] by Peter Watts
* [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-77cUxba-aA Twisted]]: rational!Aladdin ... the musical
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
to:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.basis.
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]: DeathNote fanfiction trying to show what more realistic standards of reasoning would allow the main characters to achieve.
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9380249/1/Rationalising-Death Rationalising Death]]: DeathNote fanfiction trying to show what more realistic standards of reasoning would allow the main characters to achieve.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
to:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals: [[LivingForeverIsAwesome living forever]], [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals.
to:
* The story hints at or embraces [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals.ideals: [[{{Utopia}} utopias]] or [[{{Dystopia}} dystopias]] will often be a subject of discussion
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome ''eradicated'']] a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
to:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome ''eradicated'']] ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome eradicated]]'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
--> "There seem to be a lot of bronies on LessWrong. This is a trap to sniff them out." -- [[http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=1418 LessWrong FimFiction Group]
to:
--> "There seem to be a lot of bronies on LessWrong. This is a trap to sniff them out." -- [[http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=1418 LessWrong FimFiction Group]Group]]
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreAwesome mankind has ''eradicated'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.]]
to:
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreAwesome mankind [[HumansAreSpecial mankind]] has ''eradicated'' [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome ''eradicated'']] a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* My Little Pony: FriendshipIsOptimal, by Iceman: mostly does not explicitly teach rationality techniques, but points out exactly why they say AIIsACrapshoot.
to:
* My Little Pony: FriendshipIsOptimal, by Iceman: mostly does not explicitly teach rationality techniques, but points out exactly why they say AIIsACrapshoot.AIIsACrapshoot.
--> "There seem to be a lot of bronies on LessWrong. This is a trap to sniff them out." -- [[http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=1418 LessWrong FimFiction Group]
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9794740/1/Pokemon-The-Origin-of-Species Pokemon: the Origin of Species]]: rationalfic of {{Pokemon}} Red+Blue
* {{Accelerando}}, by Charles Stross: one of the first real novels to explore LessWrong's much-beloved [[TheSingularity Singularity]] tropes.
* FineStructure
* {{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreAwesome mankind has ''eradicated'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.]]
--> "There seem to be a lot of bronies on LessWrong. This is a trap to sniff them out." -- [[http://www.fimfiction.net/index.php?view=group&group=1418 LessWrong FimFiction Group]
* [[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9794740/1/Pokemon-The-Origin-of-Species Pokemon: the Origin of Species]]: rationalfic of {{Pokemon}} Red+Blue
* {{Accelerando}}, by Charles Stross: one of the first real novels to explore LessWrong's much-beloved [[TheSingularity Singularity]] tropes.
* FineStructure
* {{Worm}}
* [[http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/The+Ballad+Of+Smallpox+Gone/4f7lHc?src=5 The Ballad of Smallpox Gone]]: not fiction, ''way awesomer'' for being about RealLife, in which [[HumansAreAwesome mankind has ''eradicated'' a disease that used to cause the equivalents of small genocides on a frequent basis.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
to:
* {{Luminosity}}, by AlicornAlicorn
* My Little Pony: FriendshipIsOptimal, by Iceman: mostly does not explicitly teach rationality techniques, but points out exactly why they say AIIsACrapshoot.
* My Little Pony: FriendshipIsOptimal, by Iceman: mostly does not explicitly teach rationality techniques, but points out exactly why they say AIIsACrapshoot.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality -- the first and most popular
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ Three Worlds Collide]], by the same author
to:
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality -- HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality: the first and most popular
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ Three Worlds Collide]], by the sameauthorauthor
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
* [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/ Three Worlds Collide]], by the same
* {{Luminosity}}, by Alicorn
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 9 (click to see context) :
Changed line(s) 16,18 (click to see context) from:
Bonus points for the LessWrong crowd:
* The main character uses (or tries to use) rationalist and scientific methods to demystify seemingly mysterious phenomena.
* The main character uses (or tries to use) rationalist and scientific methods to demystify seemingly mysterious phenomena.
to:
Bonus points for the LessWrong crowd:
points:
* The main character uses (or tries to use) [[TheScientificMethod rationalist and scientificmethods methods]] to [[SufficientlyAnalyzedMagic demystify seemingly mysterious phenomena.phenomena]].
* The main character uses (or tries to use) [[TheScientificMethod rationalist and scientific
Changed line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) from:
Originally, there were only a few hard-science fiction authors who wrote this way. Then, one fateful day, HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality was posted to the internet. It acquired a fandom.
to:
Originally, there were only a few hard-science hard science fiction authors who wrote this way. Then, one fateful day, HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality was posted to the internet. It acquired a fandom.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
to:
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' ''
-> -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
-> -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* The characters are not stupid. No one holds the IdiotBall (or at least not the main heroes or main villains).
to:
* The characters are not aren't stupid. No one holds the IdiotBall (or at least not the main heroes or main villains).
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being [[LightIsNotGood "good"]] or [[DarkIsNotEvil "evil"]].
to:
* [[GreyAndGrayMorality Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, values]], not just by being [[LightIsNotGood "good"]] or [[DarkIsNotEvil "evil"]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being "good" or "evil".
to:
* Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being "good" [[LightIsNotGood "good"]] or "evil".[[DarkIsNotEvil "evil"]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 20,21 (click to see context) from:
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system.
to:
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the SCPFoundation system.
system: if you leave it alone in a locked room, it won't destroy the planet.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
* The story hints at or embraces [[Main/Transhumanism transhumanist]] ideals.
to:
* The story hints at or embraces [[Main/Transhumanism [[{{Transhuman}} transhumanist]] ideals.
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
That fandom developed a nascent tradition of writing their own "rational fics": often explicitly fanfiction by members of the LessWrong community, designed to teach the "rationality techniques" of that community, but not always necessarily associated with LessWrong or even fanfics at all. Most are, though. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]]
to:
That fandom developed a nascent tradition of writing their own "rational fics": often explicitly fanfiction by members of the LessWrong community, designed to teach the "rationality techniques" of that community, but community. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]] Still, not always necessarily associated with LessWrong or even fanfics at all. all. Most are, though. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]]
Tend to make use of {{Deconstruction}} or {{Reconstruction}} in examining genre tropes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 19,21 (click to see context) from:
* The story hints at or embraces [[Transhumanism transhumanist]] ideals.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the [[SecureContainProtect SCP]] system.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the [[SecureContainProtect SCP]] system.
to:
* The story hints at or embraces [[Transhumanism [[Main/Transhumanism transhumanist]] ideals.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the[[SecureContainProtect SCP]] SCPFoundation system.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology. It doesn't have to be [[AIIsACrapshoot always a crapshoot]], just potentially dangerous if not handled carefully by well-trained users. Think of the "Safe" level under the
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 18 (click to see context) :
Changed line(s) 20,24 (click to see context) from:
* The story hints at or embraces transhumanist ideals.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology.
to:
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 10 (click to see context) :
Deleted line(s) 12 (click to see context) :
Deleted line(s) 14 (click to see context) :
Deleted line(s) 16 (click to see context) :
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
*
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,3 (click to see context) from:
->''It's amazing how such [[BunnyEarsLawyer intelligent]], [[CrazyPrepared organized]], dedicated people have [[BasementDweller so much spare time]].''
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
to:
In the shortest possible terms, a RationalFic is a story in which the character's intelligence is distinctly ''not'' an InformedAbility. They really do make clever deductions that the readers actually can follow, and the author really does provide the necessary facts to the reader, ''hoping'' they'll figure it out.
It's surprising how often authors ''don't'' do that, really.
The general characteristics of a rational fic:
* The characters are not stupid. No one holds the IdiotBall (or at least not the main heroes or main villains).
* The characters solve problems through the intelligent application of their knowledge and resources.
* The story is like a puzzle; [[ViewersAreGeniuses readers can reach the same solution as the characters]] by using the information provided earlier in the story.
* Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being "good" or "evil".
* The rules of the fictional world are [[MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness sane]] and [[MagicAIsMagicA consistent]].
Bonus points for the LessWrong crowd:
* The main character uses (or tries to use) rationalist and scientific methods to demystify seemingly mysterious phenomena.
* The story teaches sound lessons about rationalist techniques, which can be applied to readers' lives.
* The story hints at or embraces transhumanist ideals.
* The story deals with the dangers and potential of powerful new technology.
Originally, there were only a few hard-science fiction authors who wrote this way. Then, one fateful day, HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality was posted to the internet. It acquired a fandom.
That fandom developed a nascent tradition of writing their own "rational fics": often explicitly fanfiction by members of the LessWrong community, designed to teach the "rationality techniques" of that community, but not always necessarily associated with LessWrong or even fanfics at all. Most are, though. [[InternetBacklash Be warned.]]
----
Known rational fics:
* HarryPotterAndTheMethodsOfRationality -- the first and most popular
*
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
->''It's amazing how such [[BunnyEarsLawyer intelligent]], [[CrazyPrepared organized]], dedicated people have [[BasementDweller so much spare time]].''
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
->''But when you look at what Sherlock Holmes does - you can't go out and do it at home. Sherlock Holmes is not really operating by any sort of reproducible method. He is operating by magically finding the right clues and carrying out magically correct complicated chains of deduction. Maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that reading Sherlock Holmes does not inspire you to go and do likewise. Holmes is a mutant superhero. And even if you did try to imitate him, it would never work in real life.'' -- [[Creator/EliezerYudkowsky Eliezer Yudkowsky]], on [[http://lesswrong.com/lw/3m/rationalist_fiction/ Rationalist Fiction]].
