History Main / LawfulStupidChaoticStupid

-->-- Oft-forgotten sentence from ''Advanced [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons Dungeons & Dragons]]'', 2nd Edition Player's Handbook

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[[/index]]

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''Note: this page is currently undergoing editing to split it into separate pages. Please put new examples on each alignment's page, and not here.''

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!!Examples of Chaotic Stupid[=/=]Stupid Evil

[[folder:Tabletop Games]]
* The ''TabletopGame/{{old World of Darkness}}'' games had at least one faction in every playable race that was frequently chosen by players of Stupid Evil or Chaotic Stupid characters. These groups had a tendency towards extreme violence, madness, and generally being DarkerAndEdgier than the other factions of that race. Whether or not these factions were inherently Stupid Evil or Chaotic Stupid is debatable, depending on how awesome you believe a given faction to be.
** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Any member of the Sabbat for Stupid Evil, especially the faux-transhumanist Tzimisce. The Malkavian Clan was pretty much only ever played as Chaotic Stupid, as players went out of their way to play "wacky" insane people. One of the most notorious kinds of Chaotic Stupid Malkavians is known as the 'fishmalk', played by the kind of people who think "crippling insanity" means "''[[SarcasmMode hilariously]]'' [[CloudCuckooLander random]]", with one of the inspirations for the nickname being an illustration where a Malkavian is fondling and making kissy-faces at a fish.
** ''TabletopGame/WerewolfTheApocalypse'': The Black Spiral Dancers, and Werewolf-related entities like the Fomori. In-setting, the evil corporation Pentex frequently engaged in Stupid Evil activities through the bad behavior of its subsidiaries.
** ''TabletopGame/MageTheAscension'': The Nephandi for Stupid Evil, Marauders for Chaotic Stupid. Curiously, the more popular choice over both was the Lawful Stupid Technocracy, most likely due to a possible AlternateCharacterInterpretation in which they are protecting humanity and rationality from the actions of destructive Tradition mages while clearing their own ranks of corruption.
** ''TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming'': Unseelie fae got some CharacterDevelopment as the ''TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming'' product line expanded, but many players did not get the memo. Initially, the Unseelie were portrayed as rather jerk-assish. Poorly played Unseelie Pooka were worse than the most annoying of fish Malks, though at least Changeling allowed for levity and it wouldn't always clash with the game's mood.
** ''TabletopGame/HunterTheReckoning'': Any of the Creeds - philosophies towards monster hunting and their associated abilities - could potentially fall into one of the Stupids. Common examples include Stupid Evil Avengers and Waywards, Stupid Good Innocents and Redeemers, Lawful Stupid Judges, and Stupid Neutral Visionaries and Hermits.
** ''TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen'': The Raveners, a faction of demons dedicated to destroying the earth out of spite, became a home to many of the game's Stupid Evil characters.
* Game Masters for ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'', if they have more than two nights of experience, are well aware that whenever a player writes down "Chaotic Neutral" for their alignment, the odds are strongly in favor of either 1) chaotic stupid or 2) stupid evil, and trying to pull a fast one by not honestly saying they plan to play an evil character. Yes, some players can play a CN character without being little more than a headache to the GM and other players, but many more cannot.
** The second edition setting TabletopGame/{{Planescape}} had several organizations with distinct, powerful philosophies. Good players found lots of interesting conflict and choice in them. Bad players had the doors to stupid-evil and chaotic-stupid thrown wide open for them. There were the Mercykillers, who cruelly punished those guilty of crimes, the Xaositects, who worshiped chaos, the Transcendent Order, who tried to purify action without thought, the Bleak Cabal, who were nihilists, the Dustmen, who believed everyone was already dead and needed to purge themselves to escape reincarnation, and the Fated, who believed charity was bad and individuals should earn or take what they want. Stupid evil and chaotic stupid characters could justify anything with these, though none of the factions were actually portrayed that way in canon.
* In the Third Edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''if the player chooses their class and race before rolling their ability scores they are very likely to wind up as this. It's better to make your rolls and THEN choose your race and class, in that order. Choosing class before race also makes it essentially inevitable that you'll wind up as this. This is because some classes need certain ability scores to be high in order to just function. While a fighter could have really any distribution of ability scores and be effective, a paladin must have a very specific distribution of abilities or be mostly useless. Since the ability that most classes DON'T need is intelligence, that's usually the one which gets the lowest roll. Can be corrected by a high level player obtaining particular items, or averted by a change in the campaign setting that makes certain class abilities less relevant (turn undead, for example). Though what some players tend to overlook is that a character can lack formal education and still know tactics from observation. D&D distinguishes between Intelligence (book smarts, the stuff you learn at school) and Wisdom (street smarts, the stuff your mom taught you): some players don't seem to. Though: [[Administrivia/TropesAreTools used correctly this trope can actually make for great characters]].
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[[folder:Video Games]]
* In the original campaign for ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'', you find a sorceress named Qara as a companion. She's Chaotic Neutral according to her alignment, but she could fool you. All of her actions, every single one of her words and absolutely any dialog options you have with her that makes her like you better are outright Chaotic Stupid AND Stupid Evil. If you're True Neutral you'll learn to dread your conversations with her very quickly, as all options always give a bunch of points towards any of the extremes of alignment, also giving or taking a bunch of influence with her. With no middle terms.
** Which is quite odd, considering that Sand, a wizard you can get to follow you and is the exact opposite of Qara for most things, is a much better character. He is Lawful Neutral, but understands the law is not absolute. He is a jerk most of the time, but devotes himself to your trial in order to take a few punches at bigger jerks. His opinion is that it is better to be a coward and live than to be brave (or stupid, in his opinion) and die. Horribly, most likely. He only follows you afterward to potential danger because he is already caught in the mess.
** In the ''Mask of the Betrayer'' expansion, the system is a bit better. You find more instances where being evil is not being brain-dead and it is a lot easier to keep a True Neutral alignment without looking like a turncoat psychotic. Even though the Spirit-Eater your character turns out to be is still a pain to the alignment (some powers give you points towards one way or another, without considering that you may simply want to use them for the convenience, if you're neutral), it was later fixed with patches. Not to mention that you receive much more chances to affect the influence of followers, so you can screw a bit during conversations without screwing the relationship itself.
* ''Franchise/MortalKombat'' does this in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'', in light of shifting the dichotomy in-game towards a conflict of OrderVersusChaos. You have characters that side with one of the fiction's two evil {{Big Bad}}s simply because they perceive one as distributors of order or chaos, and the other as the opposite. Both the lawful Big Bad and the chaotic Big Bad will inevitably cause total destruction and unmaking of the realms, either instantly and controlled, or wildly via turmoil. Forget that you'll have your life probably destroyed in the process, because victory for either evil of the Big Bads will obviously inevitably cause [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment evil]], the characters go along with it because they're militantly obsessed with order or chaos as abstract concepts only. The characters are stupid in the sense that they contradict with the ideals of justice or safety associated with order, or self survival associated with chaos, rather than using the ethical alignments for their own morally neutral goals. While we don't necessarily see every example, they tend to bounce between good and evil, just to see their abstract values carried out [[OmnicidalNeutral in any way]].
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* In the Third Edition of ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons''if the player chooses their class and race before rolling their ability scores they are very likely to wind up as this. It's better to make your rolls and THEN choose your race and class, in that order. Choosing class before race also makes it essentially inevitable that you'll wind up as this. This is because some classes need certain ability scores to be high in order to just function. While a fighter could have really any distribution of ability scores and be effective, a paladin must have a very specific distribution of abilities or be mostly useless. Since the ability that most classes DON'T need is intelligence, that's usually the one which gets the lowest roll. Can be corrected by a high level player obtaining particular items, or averted by a change in the campaign setting that makes certain class abilities less relevant (turn undead, for example). Though what some players tend to overlook is that a character can lack formal education and still know tactics from observation. D&D distinguishes between Intelligence (book smarts, the stuff you learn at school) and Wisdom (street smarts, the stuff your mom taught you): some players don't seem to. Though: [[TropesAreNotBad used correctly this trope can actually make for great characters]].

* MortalKombat does this in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'', in light of shifting the dichotomy in-game towards a conflict of OrderVersusChaos. You have characters that side with one of the fiction's two evil {{Big Bad}}s simply because they perceive one as distributors of order or chaos, and the other as the opposite. Both the lawful Big Bad and the chaotic Big Bad will inevitably cause total destruction and unmaking of the realms, either instantly and controlled, or wildly via turmoil. Forget that you'll have your life probably destroyed in the process, because victory for either evil of the Big Bads will obviously inevitably cause [[DepartmentOfRedundancyDepartment evil]], the characters go along with it because they're militantly obsessed with order or chaos as abstract concepts only. The characters are stupid in the sense that they contradict with the ideals of justice or safety associated with order, or self survival associated with chaos, rather than using the ethical alignments for their own morally neutral goals. While we don't necessarily see every example, they tend to bounce between good and evil, just to see their abstract values carried out [[OmnicidalNeutral in any way]].

** The second edition setting TabletopGame/{{Planescape}} had several organizations with distinct, powerful philosophies. Good players found lots of interesting conflict and choice in them. Bad players had the doors to stupid-evil and chaotic-stupid thrown wide open for them. There were the Mercykillers, who cruelly punished those guilty of crimes, the Xaositects, who worshiped chaos, the Transcendent Order, who tried to purify action without thought, the Bleak Cabal, who were nihilists, the Dustmen, who believed everyone was already dead and needed to purge themselves to escape reincarnation, and the Fated, who believed charity was bad and individuals should earn or take what they want. Stupid evil and chaotic stupid characters could justify anything with these.

->''Always consider alignment as a tool, not a straitjacket that restricts the character.''\\
-- Oft-forgotten sentence from ''Advanced [[TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons Dungeons & Dragons]]'', 2nd Edition Player's Handbook

** ''TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade'': Any member of the Sabbat for Stupid Evil, especially the faux-transhumanist Tzimisce. The Malkavian Clan was pretty much only ever played as Chaotic Stupid, as players went out of their way to play "wacky" insane people. One of the most notorious kinds of Chaotic Stupid Malkavians is known as the 'fishmalk': played by the kind of people who think "crippling insanity" means "''[[SarcasmMode hilariously]]'' [[CloudCuckooLander random]]," this nickname was inspired by an illustration where a Malkavian is fondling and making kissy-faces at a fish.

** ''TabletopGame/ChangelingTheDreaming'': Unseelie fae got some CharacterDevelopment as the ''ChangelingTheDreaming'' product line expanded, but many players did not get the memo. Initially, the Unseelie were portrayed as rather jerk-assish. Poorly played Unseelie Pooka were worse than the most annoying of fish Malks, though at least Changeling allowed for levity and it wouldn't always clash with the game's mood.

** ''TabletopGame/DemonTheFallen'': The Devourers, a faction of demons dedicated to destroying the earth out of spite, became a home to many of the game's Stupid Evil characters.

** The second edition setting PlaneScape had several organizations with distinct, powerful philosophies. Good players found lots of interesting conflict and choice in them. Bad players had the doors to stupid-evil and chaotic-stupid thrown wide open for them. There were the MercyKillers, who cruelly punished those guilty of crimes, the Xaositechts, who worshiped chaos, the Transcendent Order, who tried to purify action without thought, the Bleak Cabal, who were nihilists, the Dustmen, who believed everyone was already dead and needed to purge themselves to escape reincarnation, and the Fated, who believed charity was bad and individuals should earn or take what they want. Stupid evil and chaotic stupid characters could justify anything with these.

* In ''NeverwinterNights2'' original campaign, you find a sorceress named Qara as a companion. She's Chaotic Neutral according to her alignment, but she could fool you. All of her actions, every single one of her words and absolutely any dialog options you have with her that makes her like you better are outright Chaotic Stupid AND Stupid Evil. If you're True Neutral you'll learn to dread your conversations with her very quickly, as all options always gives a bunch of points towards any of the extremes or alignment, giving or taking also a bunch of influence with her. With no middle terms.
** Which is quite odd, considering that Sand, a wizard you can get to follow you and is the exact opposite of Qara for most things, is a much better character. He is Lawful Neutral, but understands the law is not absolute. He is a jerk most of the times, but devotes himself to your trial in order to take a few punches at bigger jerks. His opinion is that it is better to be a coward and live than to be brave (or stupid, in his opinion) and die. Horribly, most likely. He only follows you afterward to potential danger because he is already caught in the mess.

* MortalKombat does this in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'', in light of shifting the dichotomy in-game towards a conflict of OrderVersusChaos. You have characters that side with one of the fiction's two evil {{Big Bad}}s simply because they perceive one as distributors of order or chaos, and the other as the opposite. Both the lawful Big Bad and the chaotic Big Bad will inevitably cause total destruction and unmaking of the realms, either instantly and controlled, or wildly via turmoil. Forget that you'll have your life probably destroyed in the process, because victory for either evil of the Big Bads will obviously inevitably cause [[RedundancyDepartmentOfRedundancy evil]], the characters go along with it because they're militantly obsessed with order or chaos as abstract concepts only. The characters are stupid in the sense that they contradict with the ideals of justice or safety associated with order, or self survival associated with chaos, rather than using the ethical alignments for their own morally neutral goals. While we don't necessarily see every example, they tend to bounce between good and evil, just to see their abstract values carried out [[OmnicidalNeutral in any way]].

!!Examples of Chaotic Stupid / Stupid Evil

* MortalKombat does this in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'', in light of shifting the dichotomy in-game towards a conflict of OrderVersusChaos. You have characters that side with one of the fiction's two evil [[BigBad BigBads]] simply because they perceive one as distributors of order or chaos, and the other as the opposite. Both the lawful Big Bad and the chaotic Big Bad will inevitably cause total destruction and unmaking of the realms, either instantly and controlled, or wildly via turmoil. Forget that you'll have your life probably destroyed in the process, because victory for either evil of the Big Bads will obviously inevitably cause [[RedundancyDepartmentOfRedundancy evil]], the characters go along with it because they're militantly obsessed with order or chaos as abstract concepts only. The characters are stupid in the sense that they contradict with the ideals of justice or safety associated with order, or self survival associated with chaos, rather than using the ethical alignments for their own morally neutral goals. While we don't necessarily see every example, they tend to bounce between good and evil, just to see their abstract values carried out [[OmnicidalNeutral in any way]].[[/folder]]

See also SelfishGoodSelfishEvil, another variant on CharacterAlignment. Also compare DudleyDoRightStopsToHelp (good) and DickDastardlyStopsToCheat (evil) for when pandering to MORAL alignment actually ''hinders'' the objective.