History Main / JustGivingOrders

The Reverse-Nuremberg Defense (as opposed to the [[JustFollowingOrders Nuremberg Defense]]) is when a person within a position of authority commits a horrible deed by proxy ([[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking arson, murder, jaywalking]], etc.) and places total responsibility on the person the authority figure ordered to commit this.

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing1994'': After Simba gets his HeroicSecondWind and has the BigBad cornered, Scar tries to weasel out of his comeuppance by placing all blame for the coup on Mufasa and subsequent overrun of the Pridelands on the hyenas. "It was the hyenas; they're the enemy." While Simba does spare him (and not said excuse mattered in the slightest), Scar's words invite [[BadGuysDoTheDirtyWork a hell of a]] BackstabBackfire when Simba pushes him off a cliff, leaving him surrounded by hyenas.

* ''WesternAnimation/TheLionKing1994'': After Simba gets his HeroicSecondWind and has the BigBad cornered, Scar tries to weasel out of his comeuppance by placing all blame for the coup on Mufasa and subsequent overrun of the Pridelands on the hyenas. "It was the hyenas; they're the enemy." While Simba does spare him (it's debatable if said excuse mattered), Scar's words invite [[BadGuysDoTheDirtyWork a hell of a]] BackstabBackfire when Simba pushes him off a cliff, leaving him surrounded by hyenas.

* Legally, this is almost never the case. If you order a subordinate to commit a crime, then you're equally liable for it. Otherwise (for instance) every mob boss would go free by simply claiming he didn't ''make'' his goons kill that guy. This applies to murder for hire too naturally (even if you didn't pull the trigger, if the person who did it was hired by you, you're guilty). Naturally, few ethical codes will disagree. Military law calls this "command responsibility" (as noted by Tywin Lannister in ''Series/GameOfThrones'' above) though exceptions exist.

* In ''LightNovel/FullMetalPanic'', [[BigBad Leonard Testarossa]] believes himself morally superior to [[PragmaticHero Sousuke]] simply because Leonard never directly killed anyone: he "only" gave orders which resulted in the death or endangerment of people. He honestly believes that his conscience is clean simply because he wasn't the one who actually pulled the trigger.

Often the result of an UriahGambit failing.

-->'''Matoi''' So it's not because she's a threat, but a grudge?\\

* ''Manga/AyakashiTriangle'': The Gogyosen want the ayakashi medium killed purely over a personal grudge. They know that wouldn't justify having exorcist ninja do it, but still think it's fine to corrupt and mind control ayakashi into doing the job for them.

->'''[[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler Hitler]]:''' ''[Through a translator]'' All those people who did the killing for me weren't atheists. I didn't actually kill anybody, I just gave the orders.\\

** Kilgrave from ''Series/JessicaJones2015'', being a PsychopathicManchild with [[MindManipulation the power to make other people do things for him]], repeatedly uses this excuse. Whenever Jessica calls him out on the trail of destruction he leaves behind (or anyone else capable of calling him out for that matter), he claims that he is not responsible for killing anybody because he has other people do the killing for him. Whenever someone points out that he compelled people to kill, he will try to [[{{Gaslighting}} gaslight]] them into thinking that it was somehow their fault. For example, Jessica confronts him that he made her kill Reva Conners, he claims that he only told her to "take care" of her, and that Jessica was the one who interpreted this as killing her.

* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': Near the end of Robert's Rebellion, Tywin Lannister and his Westerlands army [[NeutralNoLonger joined the rebels at the eleventh hour]] and sacked King's Landing in Robert's name. Tywin ordered Ser Gregor Clegane to kill the Targaryen children to eliminate competing claims to the throne, but Gregor extrapolated this to mean he had license to kill Queen Elia Martell as well, though not before raping her. When Elia's brother Oberyn confronts him about this years later, Tywin "categorically" denies any involvement with her death and blames it squarely on Gregor. [[{{Hypocrite}} He actually made the opposite critique of his son Tyrion earlier]].

When you plays the BlameGame, you either win... ''or you die!''

When one plays the BlameGame, you either win... ''or you die!''

* Rather ironically, the Reverse Nuremberg Defense had one partially successful use during the actual Nuremberg Trials. Albert Speer, Minister of Armaments during the latter part of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, managed to shift blame for his commission of foreign slave labor by pinning it on his subordinate Fritz Sauckel. The judges were savvy enough to see through this and still gave Speer a twenty-year sentence, but were more lenient with Speer because of his public atonement, while Sauckel got the death penalty.

* This proves to make the BigBad of ''VisualNovel/GreatAceAttorney'' difficult to take down. [[spoiler: Unlike many other Chessmasters in the series, they never directly killed anyone, preferring to order or blackmail others into taking care of loose ends.]]

When something bad needs to be done for one's own agenda, it is best to keep one's own hands clean and thus you select someone to do the dirty work. When they are caught in the act, it is only inevitable that it traces back to you. While being an assassin is definitely not a legal profession in most parts of the world, hiring an assassin is just as frowned upon. When the hitman squeals and outs you in-front of [[CopsAndDetectives the fuzz]], you'll start to file through every excuse in the book. "I didn't do it." "Someone with the same name as me hired him." "MamaDidntRaiseNoCriminal." Eventually you'll run out of cue cards and you will go with the final gambit: "So I hired him. I still wasn't the one that shot that kid. The SmokingGun was not in my hand. I did nothing wrong."

* A sinner dies and is brought before God to be judged. He’s about to be condemned to Hell, but argues that none of this was his fault because the Devil made him do it. The Devil is brought in, and says he didn’t make the sinner do anything. He just told him to do those sins.

* Rather ironically, the Reverse Nuremberg Defense had one partially successful use during the Nuremberg Trials. Albert Speer, Minister of Armaments during the latter part of UsefulNotes/WorldWarII, managed to shift blame for his commission of foreign slave labor by pinning it on his subordinate Fritz Sauckel. The judges were savvy enough to see through this and still gave Speer a twenty-year sentence, but were more lenient with Speer because of his public atonement, while Sauckel got the death penalty.

* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': Near the end of Robert's Rebellion, Tywin Lannister and his Westerlands army joined the rebels at the eleventh hour and sacked King's Landing in Robert's name. Tywin ordered Ser Gregor Clegane to kill the Targaryen children to eliminate competing claims to the throne, but Gregor extrapolated this to mean he had license to kill Queen Elia Martell as well, though not before raping her. When Elia's brother Oberyn confronts him about this years later, Tywin "categorically" denies any involvement with her death and blames it squarely on Gregor. [[{{Hypocrite}} He actually made the opposite critique of his son Tyrion earlier]].

* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': Near the end of Robert's Rebellion, Tywin Lannister and his Westerlands army joined the rebels at the eleventh hour and sacked King's Landing. Tywin ordered Ser Gregor Clegane to kill the Targaryen children to eliminate competing claims to the throne, but Gregor extrapolated this to mean he had license to kill Queen Elia Martell as well, though not before raping her. When Elia's brother Oberyn confronts him about this years later, Tywin "categorically" denies any involvement with her death and blames it squarely on Gregor. [[{{Hypocrite}} He actually made the opposite critique of his son Tyrion earlier]].