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An extremely relevant bit of context for the Grievance Study hoax, as it suggests the aim was less altruistic and instead the more malicious version of this trope. In addition to Lindsay going full Incel, Peter Boghossian has collaborated with White Supremacists, resigned from his position at Portland State University claiming it was a "social justice factory", and run a conference in Hungary on "wokeism" (in that order). Helen Pluckrose meanwhile collaborated with Lindsay in 2020 to release a book titled "Cynical Theories: How Activist Scholarship Made Everything About Race, Gender, and Identity—and Why This Harms Everybody" which engages in a bunch of cherry picking and special pleading to argue that humanities and critical theory are bad and "Social Justice" (which they insist is different from "social justice") has ruined progressive movements.
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** The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_Studies_affair Grievance Studies hoax]], or "Sokal squared", similarly produced ludicrous papers mimicking the tropes of humanities, in particular gender studies. Several of these papers were accepted for publication, sometimes in quite well-established and respected journals.
* Real scientists engage in this to varying degrees, though mostly it tends to be light-hearted ribbing between colleagues. Especially given that actually annoying the other fields means they won't be able to ask that department for help when something comes up in their work that they can't answer on their own.
* Real scientists engage in this to varying degrees, though mostly it tends to be light-hearted ribbing between colleagues. Especially given that actually annoying the other fields means they won't be able to ask that department for help when something comes up in their work that they can't answer on their own.
to:
** The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_Studies_affair Grievance Studies hoax]], or "Sokal squared", similarly produced ludicrous papers mimicking the tropes of humanities, in particular gender studies. Several of these papers were accepted for publication, sometimes in quite well-established and respected journals.
journals. Notably all three creators of the hoax have gone on to participate in the Conservative publishing mentioned below, with James Lindsay having [[ConspiracyTheorist popularized the claim that LGBT people are groomers]], suggesting the aim was less altruistic concern for integrity in science and more [[KlingonScientistsGetNoRespect malicious]]
* Real scientists engage in this to varying degrees, though mostly it tends to be light-hearted ribbing between colleagues. Especially given that actually annoying the other fields means they won't be able to ask that department for help when something comes up in their work that they can't answer on their own.i
* Real scientists engage in this to varying degrees, though mostly it tends to be light-hearted ribbing between colleagues. Especially given that actually annoying the other fields means they won't be able to ask that department for help when something comes up in their work that they can't answer on their own.i
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* ''Film/{{The Relic}}'': Evolutionary scientist Dr. Margo Green isn't a fan of anthropologist Dr. John Whitney or his work. She's also frustrated by how he and the museum they work for act like superstition is something to take seriously; the museum financing John's work more than hers only adds to Margo's frustrations.
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* ''Film/{{The Relic}}'': Evolutionary scientist biologist Dr. Margo Green isn't a fan of anthropologist Dr. John Whitney or his work. She's also frustrated by how he and the museum they work for act like superstition is something to take seriously; the museum financing John's work more than hers only adds to Margo's frustrations.
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Many "hard" ScienceFiction authors, trained as they are in the hard sciences, such as chemistry or physics, tend to take digs at the "softer" sciences (social sciences such as sociology and anthropology) in their works. The reasons for this vary, but the most common criticism is that it's much harder to perform repeatable experiments. Scientists strive towards empiricism and the "scientific method", and many humanities or social sciences are trying to study things that cannot easily be studied strictly and subjected to experimentation, which makes hard science writers feel justified in considering them as "pseudoscience".
This happens outside of science fiction as well. Often, scientist characters in non-sci-fi shows will insult the softer sciences when they have to deal with them. In real life, common targets are Psychology (see below), Psychiatry (often portrayed as the medical equivalent of the ChurchOfHappyology, which is ironic considering that church's own attitude towards it), Economics ("The Dismal Science"), Linguistics (except by some, c.f. [[Series/TheBigBangTheory Sheldon Cooper]]), &c.. Some can have a grudging respect for economics and political science, the two that can tell if one will get more funding soon.
Think of it as an interdisciplinary TakeThat. How much the rivalry is SeriousBusiness, and how much friendly banter, depends on the people involved. It's still an influential conflict that not only has spawned new theories and schools, but became a full blown [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars "war"]] during the 90's. The standard comeback from soft scientists is that their subject is more "applicable" or more relevant to life and society at large (e.g.: as hit and miss as psychology can be, even biologists admit that neurological or even pharmacological solutions to mood disorders [[DrugsAreBad should only be a last resort]]). Social scientists can point out that that often their fields are not as far along simply because they're more difficult to research: "atoms don't think" and won't lie to you on surveys, make irrational decisions, or be influenced by thousands of seemingly unrelated variables, and there are fewer ethical concerns with experimenting on them. Sometimes they even go to the point of calling physics a "solved" field, whose only remaining mysteries are basically trivia without real-world impact. Another reaction is that these complaints come from those for whom science has been fetishized by, usually non-scientists, thus missing the point entirely and cheapening both.
A related phenomenon is "hard science" and business students criticizing subjects like Literary Criticism and Philosophy for being more WildMassGuessing and [[ADegreeInUseless having little utility in careers outside the academic world]]. This overlooks actual, legitimate philosophies that adults can also make use of (like for example, studying logic and reasoning), and of course, how in RealLife some businesses prefer candidates who bring different ways of thinking to their jobs.
Similarly, there are a number of quantitative-minded sociologists who use complex statistical methods that rival those of the hard sciences in their own research.
This happens outside of science fiction as well. Often, scientist characters in non-sci-fi shows will insult the softer sciences when they have to deal with them. In real life, common targets are Psychology (see below), Psychiatry (often portrayed as the medical equivalent of the ChurchOfHappyology, which is ironic considering that church's own attitude towards it), Economics ("The Dismal Science"), Linguistics (except by some, c.f. [[Series/TheBigBangTheory Sheldon Cooper]]), &c.. Some can have a grudging respect for economics and political science, the two that can tell if one will get more funding soon.
Think of it as an interdisciplinary TakeThat. How much the rivalry is SeriousBusiness, and how much friendly banter, depends on the people involved. It's still an influential conflict that not only has spawned new theories and schools, but became a full blown [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars "war"]] during the 90's. The standard comeback from soft scientists is that their subject is more "applicable" or more relevant to life and society at large (e.g.: as hit and miss as psychology can be, even biologists admit that neurological or even pharmacological solutions to mood disorders [[DrugsAreBad should only be a last resort]]). Social scientists can point out that that often their fields are not as far along simply because they're more difficult to research: "atoms don't think" and won't lie to you on surveys, make irrational decisions, or be influenced by thousands of seemingly unrelated variables, and there are fewer ethical concerns with experimenting on them. Sometimes they even go to the point of calling physics a "solved" field, whose only remaining mysteries are basically trivia without real-world impact. Another reaction is that these complaints come from those for whom science has been fetishized by, usually non-scientists, thus missing the point entirely and cheapening both.
A related phenomenon is "hard science" and business students criticizing subjects like Literary Criticism and Philosophy for being more WildMassGuessing and [[ADegreeInUseless having little utility in careers outside the academic world]]. This overlooks actual, legitimate philosophies that adults can also make use of (like for example, studying logic and reasoning), and of course, how in RealLife some businesses prefer candidates who bring different ways of thinking to their jobs.
Similarly, there are a number of quantitative-minded sociologists who use complex statistical methods that rival those of the hard sciences in their own research.
to:
Many "hard" ScienceFiction authors, trained as they are in the hard sciences, such as chemistry or physics, tend to take digs at the "softer" sciences (social sciences such as sociology and anthropology) in their works. The reasons for this vary, but the most common criticism is that it's much harder to perform repeatable experiments. Scientists strive towards empiricism and the "scientific method", and method," many humanities or social sciences are trying to study things that cannot easily be studied strictly and subjected to experimentation, which makes making hard science writers feel justified in considering them as "pseudoscience".
"pseudoscience."
This happens outside of science fiction as well. Often, scientist characters in non-sci-fi shows will insult the softer sciences when they have to deal with them. In real life, common targets are Psychology (see below), Psychiatry (often portrayed as the medical equivalent of the ChurchOfHappyology, which is ironic consideringthat the church's own attitude towards it), Economics ("The Dismal Science"), Linguistics (except by some, c.f. [[Series/TheBigBangTheory Sheldon Cooper]]), &c.. &c. Some can have a grudging respect for economics and political science, the two that which can tell if one will get more funding soon.
Think of it as an interdisciplinary TakeThat. How much the rivalry is SeriousBusiness, and how much friendly banter, depends on the people involved. It's still an influential conflict that not only has spawned new theories andschools, schools but became a full blown full-blown [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars "war"]] during the 90's. The standard comeback from soft scientists is that their subject is more "applicable" or more relevant to life and society at large (e.g.: as hit and miss as psychology can be, even biologists admit that neurological or even pharmacological solutions to mood disorders [[DrugsAreBad should only be a last resort]]). Social scientists can point out that that often their fields are not as far along simply because they're more difficult to research: "atoms don't think" and won't lie to you on surveys, make irrational decisions, or be influenced by thousands of seemingly unrelated variables, and there are fewer ethical concerns with experimenting on them. Sometimes Sometimes, they even go to the point of calling call physics a "solved" field, field whose only remaining mysteries are basically trivia without real-world impact. Another reaction is that these complaints come from those for whom science has been fetishized by, fetishized, usually by non-scientists, thus missing the point entirely and cheapening both.
A related phenomenon is "hard science" and business students criticizing subjects like Literary Criticism and Philosophy for being more WildMassGuessing and [[ADegreeInUseless having little utility in careers outside the academic world]]. This overlooks actual, legitimate philosophies that adults can alsomake use of (like (like, for example, studying logic and reasoning), and of course, how in RealLife RealLife, some businesses prefer candidates who bring different ways of thinking to their jobs.
Similarly,there are a number of several quantitative-minded sociologists who use complex statistical methods that rival those of the hard sciences in their own research.
This happens outside of science fiction as well. Often, scientist characters in non-sci-fi shows will insult the softer sciences when they have to deal with them. In real life, common targets are Psychology (see below), Psychiatry (often portrayed as the medical equivalent of the ChurchOfHappyology, which is ironic considering
Think of it as an interdisciplinary TakeThat. How much the rivalry is SeriousBusiness, and how much friendly banter, depends on the people involved. It's still an influential conflict that not only has spawned new theories and
A related phenomenon is "hard science" and business students criticizing subjects like Literary Criticism and Philosophy for being more WildMassGuessing and [[ADegreeInUseless having little utility in careers outside the academic world]]. This overlooks actual, legitimate philosophies that adults can also
Similarly,
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Not related to [[JustForFun/IThoughtItMeant erections in any way]] and more specifically not related to the SciFiGhetto.
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Not related to [[JustForFun/IThoughtItMeant erections in any way]] and and, more specifically specifically, not related to the SciFiGhetto.
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%%comment%% Actual science only. We're talking physics vs. sociology, that sort of thing. Alternative medicine, for example, has no place here, because regardless of whether or not it works, it's not generally located/tested scientifically.
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%%comment%% Actual science only. We're talking physics vs. sociology, that sort of thing. Alternative medicine, for example, has no place here, here because regardless of whether or not it works, it's not generally located/tested scientifically.
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* In the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' and ''Series/TheBigBangTheory'' crossover ''Fanfic/TheManyWorldsInterpretation'', by Creator/AAPessimal, two academics from the Discworld cross to Earth and encounter their peers from Caltech. Sheldon Cooper pretty much instantly accepts Professor Ponder Stibbons when Ponder reveals more than a surface knowledge of quantum physics. [[note]]Except to Ponder it is quantum magic[[/note]]. however, Ponder's co-researcher, when she explains her doctorate is in zoology and animal psychology, gets the flat and disinterested response "Oh. Interesting.", spoken in a way that clearly reveals Sheldon considers this beneath his dignity. As she is also an Assassin, she finds her fists beginning to itch. Penny remarks later on her self-control.
* In ''Girl Genius'' story ''Fanfic/RaisedByJagers'' there's a riddling sphinx that preys on the Philosophy Department, with great success.
* In ''Girl Genius'' story ''Fanfic/RaisedByJagers'' there's a riddling sphinx that preys on the Philosophy Department, with great success.
to:
* In the ''Literature/{{Discworld}}'' and ''Series/TheBigBangTheory'' crossover ''Fanfic/TheManyWorldsInterpretation'', by Creator/AAPessimal, two academics from the Discworld cross to Earth and encounter their peers from Caltech. Sheldon Cooper pretty much instantly accepts Professor Ponder Stibbons when Ponder reveals more than a surface knowledge of quantum physics. [[note]]Except to Ponder it is quantum magic[[/note]]. however, Ponder's co-researcher, when she explains her doctorate is in zoology and animal psychology, gets the flat and disinterested response response, "Oh. Interesting.", spoken in a way that clearly reveals Sheldon considers this beneath his dignity. As she is also an Assassin, she finds her fists beginning to itch. Penny remarks later on her self-control.
* In ''Girl Genius'' story ''Fanfic/RaisedByJagers''there's a riddling sphinx that preys on the Philosophy Department, Department with great success.
* In ''Girl Genius'' story ''Fanfic/RaisedByJagers''
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* ''WesternAnimation/CloudyWithAChanceOfMeatballs2'': PlayedForLaughs. The orangutan Barb works for Live Corp, which specializes in futuristic inventions and Food Bars. She and her boss Chester V refuse to even believe that meteorologist Sam Sparks is truly even a scientist.
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngsters minds.
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngsters minds.
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/CloudyWithAChanceOfMeatballs2'': PlayedForLaughs. The orangutan Barb works for Live Corp, which specializes specializing in futuristic inventions and Food Bars. She and her boss boss, Chester V V, refuse to even believe that meteorologist Sam Sparks is truly even a scientist.
scientist.
--> '''Barb''': Meteorology, oh, I love it! The science of smiling and having pretty hair while you ''point at a map.''
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be ratheranti-historian as she views anti-historian, viewing Argyle's research upon on ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngsters children's minds.
--> '''Barb''': Meteorology, oh, I love it! The science of smiling and having pretty hair while you ''point at a map.''
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather
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* Invoked in ''Film/{{Arrival}}'', when Ian, a theoretical physicist, meets Louise, he's reading her book on linguistics and the development of human languages and argues his belief that science is the foundation of civilization rather than language. Louise argues that communication is what allows those scientific discoveries to be shared and described, firmly shutting him up. Moreover, given that they're dealing with a race of StarfishAliens with a StarfishLanguage who [[spoiler:don't think in a linear manner]], Louise's expertise turns out to be far more useful than Ian's and his idea of using simple linear equations fails. Strangely, the aliens are able to recognize more complex three-dimensional equations [[spoiler:(because they are non-linear)]].
--> '''Barb''': Meteorology, oh, I love it! The science of smiling and having pretty hair while you ''point at a map.''
* ''Film/{{Sunshine}}'': Both Played With and Downplayed. The eight protagonists are: six engineers of various kinds, a theoretical / particle physicist, and a psychiatrist. You'd think the psychiatrist would be the odd one out, particularly since a point is made that he is on their mission because a previous mission which only had hard scientists & engineers failed and it's thought that was due to human (interaction) failure (so this mission is the first to include a non-engineer / non-hard-scientist). But actually the physicist is the one who stands apart from the rest and has tension with the others. It is escalated pretty soon in the movie when a crucial decision has to be made regarding the mission, and the Captain declares the decision won't be made democratically but will be solely up to the physicist, because ''he'' is the only one who can interpret, or even grasp, the complex parameters involved. So in the end, it's more "theoretical vs. applied sciences".
--> '''Barb''': Meteorology, oh, I love it! The science of smiling and having pretty hair while you ''point at a map.''
* ''Film/{{Sunshine}}'': Both Played With and Downplayed. The eight protagonists are: six engineers of various kinds, a theoretical / particle physicist, and a psychiatrist. You'd think the psychiatrist would be the odd one out, particularly since a point is made that he is on their mission because a previous mission which only had hard scientists & engineers failed and it's thought that was due to human (interaction) failure (so this mission is the first to include a non-engineer / non-hard-scientist). But actually the physicist is the one who stands apart from the rest and has tension with the others. It is escalated pretty soon in the movie when a crucial decision has to be made regarding the mission, and the Captain declares the decision won't be made democratically but will be solely up to the physicist, because ''he'' is the only one who can interpret, or even grasp, the complex parameters involved. So in the end, it's more "theoretical vs. applied sciences".
to:
* Invoked in ''Film/{{Arrival}}'', when Ian, a theoretical physicist, meets Louise, he's Louise. He's reading her book on linguistics and the development of human languages and argues his belief that science is the foundation of civilization rather than language. Louise argues that communication is what allows those scientific discoveries to be shared and described, firmly shutting him up. Moreover, given that they're dealing with a race of StarfishAliens with a StarfishLanguage who [[spoiler:don't think in a linear manner]], linearly]], Louise's expertise turns out to be is far more useful than Ian's Ian's, and his idea of using simple linear equations fails. Strangely, the aliens are able to can recognize more complex three-dimensional equations [[spoiler:(because they are non-linear)]].
--> '''Barb''': Meteorology, oh, I love it! The science * ''Film/{{The Relic}}'': Evolutionary scientist Dr. Margo Green isn't a fan of smiling anthropologist Dr. John Whitney or his work. She's also frustrated by how he and having pretty hair while you ''point at a map.''
the museum they work for act like superstition is something to take seriously; the museum financing John's work more than hers only adds to Margo's frustrations.
-->'''Margo''': Why do we keep financing John Whitney's expeditions? As if superstition were the same thing as science... Using superstition to bring people to the museum is like hiring topless ushers for the Bolshoi Ballet.
* ''Film/{{Sunshine}}'': Both Played With and Downplayed. The eight protagonistsare: are six engineers of various kinds, kinds: a theoretical / particle physicist, theoretical/particle physicist and a psychiatrist. You'd think the psychiatrist would be the odd one out, particularly since a point is made that he is on their mission because a previous mission which only had hard scientists & engineers failed failed, and it's thought that was due to human (interaction) failure (so this mission is the first to include a non-engineer / non-hard-scientist). non-engineer/non-hard-scientist). But actually the physicist is the one who stands apart from the rest and has tension with the others. It is escalated pretty soon in the movie when a crucial decision has to be made regarding the mission, and the Captain declares the decision won't be made democratically but will be solely up to the physicist, physicist because ''he'' is the only one who can interpret, or even grasp, the complex parameters involved. So So, in the end, it's more "theoretical vs. applied sciences".
-->'''Margo''': Why do we keep financing John Whitney's expeditions? As if superstition were the same thing as science... Using superstition to bring people to the museum is like hiring topless ushers for the Bolshoi Ballet.
* ''Film/{{Sunshine}}'': Both Played With and Downplayed. The eight protagonists
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* There's an old joke where the dean of a college complains how much the various science departments are costing the college. The chemistry department needs test tubes and bunsen burners, the physics department needs particle accelerators and Tesla coils, the astronomy department needs telescopes, etc.. He says, "Why can't they be more like the Mathematics classes? They only need paper and a wastebasket. And the Philosophy department is even cheaper; they don't even need the wastebasket!"
to:
* There's an old joke where the college's dean of a college complains how much the various science departments are costing the college. The chemistry department needs test tubes and bunsen burners, the physics department needs particle accelerators and Tesla coils, the astronomy department needs telescopes, etc.. He says, "Why can't they be more like the Mathematics classes? They only need paper and a wastebasket. And the Philosophy department is even cheaper; they don't even need the wastebasket!"
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[[folder:Film-Animated]]
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[[folder:Film-Live Action]]
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* ''Series/{{Frasier}}'': Both the title character and his brother Niles often try to undermine each others respective therapy field (for Frasier, radio psychology and for Niles, private practice). They're both more than willing however to belittle another field of psychology that they find below them.
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* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's minds.
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's youngsters minds.
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* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's minds.
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's youngsters minds.
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Changed line(s) 35,36 (click to see context) from:
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historians as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's minds.
to:
* ''WesternAnimation/MyLittlePonyANewGeneration'': Phyllis seems to be rather anti-historians anti-historian as she views Argyle's research upon ponies being friends as a means of poisoning youngster's minds.
