History Main / GoodIsOldFashioned

* Played with, if probably unintentionally, by ''Literature/{{Victoria}}''. The protagonists are definitely old-fashioned, fighting to reinstate the culture, technology and aesthetic of the rural 1930s, while rejecting all the ideological underpinnings of the Enlightenment. How ''good'' they are is... [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment up for some debate.]]

* In DC's miniseries ''Trinity'', Morgaine Le Fey tells Superman, during the climactic battle, that she is looking to the future, while he, Batman, and Franchise/WonderWoman cling to the past.

* UsefulNotes/WinstonChurchill was known to be old fashioned for his time, being culturally much more at home in the Victorian era of his youth. His speeches were full of historical references, whether to English history or to the classical era, and he had a tendency to go on about WoodenShipsAndIronMen or the Middle Ages, always evoking a kind of HollywoodHistory to inspire the British people. He remained a believer in UsefulNotes/TheBritishEmpire well past the point that it was fashionable. All that being said, his historical imagination and respect for tradition helped him see that the kind of modernity the Nazis advocated would lead to a pretty horrifying future.
* UsefulNotes/OdaNobunaga lives with this belief, in a way. In a nation where old traditions and honors were revered, Nobunaga was a brazen young man that believed that people needed to constantly change and move on from the past. And so he did things that a lot of traditionalists wouldn't do, including disrespecting Buddhism, collaborating with foreigners, promoting meritocracy and using a lot of out-of-the-box thinking to win his battles (as exemplified in Nagashino where his musket tactics trounced the mighty Takeda cavalry). It also made him a terrifyingly powerful warlord who was very close to uniting the whole Japan, had it not been [[UsefulNotes/AkechiMitsuhide one of his men]] betraying him, and his whole middle finger to tradition made him very ripe to be given HistoricalVillainUpgrade by writers. In other words, to Oda Nobunaga, 'good' values like 'honor and tradition' is old fashioned and to survive, people needs to embrace change.

* UsefulNotes/WinstonChurchill was known to be old fashioned for his time, being culturally much more at home in the Victorian era of his youth. His speeches were full of historical references, whether to English history or to the classical era, and he had a tendency to go on about WoodenShipsAndIronMen or the Middle Ages, always evoking a kind of HollywoodHistory to inspire the British people. He remained a believer in UsefulNotes/TheBritishEmpire well past the point that it was fashionable. All that being said, his historical imagination and [[GoodIsOldFashioned respect for tradition]] helped him see that the kind of modernity the Nazis advocated would lead to a pretty horrifying future.

---> Robin: The old Batman would never [[PayEvilUntoEvil descend to their level!]]\\
Azrael: The old Batman was created for older times. There's no place for kid gloves now. Evil has lost its patience. Obeying rules and codes the other side has trashed is ''stupid.''

* In ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' and its sequel ''VideoGame/Injustice2'', Superman ironically adheres to this after breaking the no-kill rule. Or rather, an [[FallenHero alternate version of Superman]] who established a tyrannical dictatorship over Earth after being tricked by ComicBook/TheJoker into killing his wife ComicBook/LoisLane and [[NukeEm nuking Metropolis]], which caused Injustice-verse Superman to kill the MonsterClown in retaliation. Injustice-verse Superman and his Regime loyalists (Injustice-verse Black Adam, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Robin) see traditional superheroics and the so-called [[ThouShaltNotKill "moral code"]] Batman and his allies stick to is outdated, as it enables villains like the Joker and Gorilla Grodd to break out of {{Cardboard Prison}}s easily and menace society with impunity. In the Regime's view, Batman and his allies are giving the villains ''carte blanche'' to rob and terrorize others. When the main universe Superman is brought into the Injustice-verse near the end of ''Injustice: Gods Among Us'', he chides his counterpart for breaking the ThouShaltNotKill rule, only to be mocked by Injustice-verse Superman for adhering to outdated values. Likewise in the sequel, many condemn Injustice-verse Superman for breaking the no-kill rule, but he can retort back with a ShutUpKirk speech or an ArmorPiercingQuestion.
* Implied throughout the ''VideoGame/JakAndDaxter'' games: multiple times important figures take note of Jak's heroic attitude carried over from the first game that contrasts with the CrapsackWorld he finds himself in for the sequels. [[VideoGame/JakIIRenegade Praxis]] is critical of it and says all the heroes died long ago, while [[VideoGame/Jak3Wastelander Damas]] is more wistful says that the world is not yet out of heroes.

ThoseWackyNazis often have a tendency to express sentiments of this fashion; whilst they may not actually identify themselves as evil, they will often sneer to their more democratic foes that their beliefs are 'outdated', and that the pure Aryan way is the inevitable way of the future. Given what the judgment of history ended up [[AcceptablePoliticalTargets being against the Nazis and their followers]], a Nazi who makes this assertion will usually be played for the historical irony, especially if they're making it any time pre-1945.

* In the Franchise/StarTrekNovelVerse, Emperor Kahless and his traditionalist philosophies get this from other Klingons, on occasion. But with the Klingon Empire reconfiguring itself in light of Martok’s reforms, the tide is turning. In the ''Literature/StarTrekVoyagerRelaunch'', Kahless tells SmugSnake Kopek that ''he'' is going to become obsolete:

** ''Film/{{Spectre}}'': C/Max Denbigh claims that the world is better off with the [[SinisterSurveillaince "Nine Eyes" surveillance project]], thinking that an AttackDrone can do a better job than a field agent. However, M holds up the importance of spies because they're capable of autonomous decisions, especially ethical ones, going so far to ask C if he ever held a gun. [[spoiler:Spectre later does prove that even in a digitized era, [[BoringButPractical an old-fashioned spy]] is still necessary to prevent critical errors.]]

* In ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'' and its sequel ''VideoGame/Injustice2'', Superman ironically adheres to this after breaking the no-kill rule. Or rather, an [[FallenHero alternate version of Superman]] who established a tyrannical dictatorship over Earth after being tricked by ComicBook/TheJoker into killing his wife ComicBook/LoisLane and [[NukeEm nuking Metropolis]], which caused Injustice-verse Superman to kill the MonsterClown in retaliation. Injustice-verse Superman and his Regime loyalists (Injustice-verse Black Adam, Green Lantern, Flash Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Robin) see traditional superheroics and the so-called [[ThouShaltNotKill "moral code"]] Batman and his allies stick to is outdated, as it enables villains like the Joker and Gorilla Grodd to break out of {{Cardboard Prison}}s easily and menace society with impunity. In the Regime's view, Batman and his allies are giving the villains ''carte blanche'' to rob and terrorize others. When the main universe Superman is brought into the Injustice-verse near the end of ''Injustice: Gods Among Us'', he chides his counterpart for breaking the ThouShaltNotKill rule, only to be mocked by Injustice-verse Superman for adhering to outdated values. Likewise in the sequel, many condemn Injustice-verse Superman for breaking the no-kill rule, but he can retort back with a ShutUpKirk speech or an ArmorPiercingQuestion.

* ''VideoGame/InjusticeGodsAmongUs'': Ironically, Superman adheres to this. Or rather, an alternate version of Superman who broke the no-kill rule and established a tyrannical dictatorship over Earth after being tricked by ComicBook/TheJoker into killing his wife ComicBook/LoisLane and [[NukeEm nuking Metropolis]], which caused Injustice-verse Superman to kill the MonsterClown in retaliation. When the main universe Superman is brought into the Injustice-verse, he chides his counterpart for breaking the ThouShaltNotKill rule, only to be mocked by Injustice-verse Superman for adhering to outdated values.
** The sequel ''VideoGame/Injustice2'' shows that Injustice-verse Superman and his Regime loyalists (Injustice-verse Black Adam, Wonder Woman, Cyborg and Robin only) still adhere to seeing traditional superheroics and so-called [[ThouShaltNotKill "moral code"]] Batman and his allies stick to is outdated, as this enables villains like the Joker and Gorilla Grodd to break out of {{Cardboard Prison}}s easily and menace society with impunity. In the Regime's view, Batman and his allies are giving the villains ''carte blanche'' to rob and terrorize others.

* Played with, if probably unintentionally, by ''Literature/{{Victoria}}''. The protagonists are definitely old-fashioned, fighting to reinstate the culture, technology and aesthetic of the rural 1930s, while rejecting all the ideological underpinnings of the Enlightenment. How ''good'' they are is... [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement up for some debate.]]

* It wasn't just ThoseWackyNazis, the ''real'' Nazis, and the Italian Fascists who came before them, came to power largely by arguing that things like liberal democracy and individual rights (as opposed to the "common good") were outdated concepts and that totalitarian dictatorship was the way of the future. In keeping with this trope "pragmatic" was, in fact, one of Mussolini's favorite words.
* Communist tracts of the time also made use of this trope, though they tended to portray themselves as 'true' democrats and the liberal democracies of the West as being undemocratic because they didn't permit unlimited power to the majority. A favorite of Communist propagandists of the 1930s in the USA was that the Constitution was outdated, obsolete, and a 'barrier to democracy'.
* The idea that democracy is aimless mob rule and that enlightened tyranny was the way forward was actually a ''very'' popular viewpoint among turn of the century intellectuals, with Nietzsche being the [[TropeMakers Trope Maker]]. Many average people believed it too, feeling that a strong nationalistic leader who would put the good of the people first was preferable to elected bodies that would squabble at best and line their own pockets at worst. It took World War II to demolish that perspective.

* It's Older than You Think: debates about the morality of democracy and the practicality of tyranny have been raging since at least Ancient Greece. Creator/{{Plato}}'s ''Literature/TheRepublic'' describes an ideal government ruled by "philosopher-kings", who would rule in the people's best interests without regard for themselves. "Sed quid custodiaret ipsos custodes?" (But who shall oversee the overseers?)

* ''Film/LiveFreeOrDieHard'': Thomas Gabriel mocks John [=McClane=] by calling him an analogue timepiece in the digital age.

* ''Film/ANewHope'', Han scoffs at Obi-Wan's coaching of Luke in Jedi weaponry and ethos as impractical and antiquated.

* UsefulNotes/OdaNobunaga lives with this trope. In a nation where old traditions and honors were revered, Nobunaga was a brazen young man that believed that people needed to constantly change and move on from the past. And so he did things that a lot of traditionalists wouldn't do, including disrespecting Buddhism, collaborating with foreigners, promoting meritocracy and using a lot of out-of-the-box thinking to win his battles (as exemplified in Nagashino where his musket tactics trounced the mighty Takeda cavalry). It also made him a terrifyingly powerful warlord who was very close to uniting the whole Japan, had it not been [[UsefulNotes/AkechiMitsuhide one of his men]] betraying him.

* ''Film/{{Goldeneye}}'': The BigBad is a RogueAgent who [[BreakingSpeech mocks]] Film/JamesBond being "Her Majesty's loyal terrier," his status as TheCasanova, and adhering to old-fashioned espionage tactics. Of course, Bond makes a cutting remark of his own, stating that [[{{Hypocrite}} "mad little" Alec Trevelyan]] himself is stuck in the past, as part of his grudge against England involves settling an old score that caused his parents to kill themselves of the shame of surviving the Soviet dictator Stalin's death squads at the end of WWII.

* Depressingly enough, the idea that democracy is aimless mob rule and that enlightened tyranny was the way forward was actually a ''very'' popular viewpoint among turn of the century intellectuals, with Nietzsche being the [[TropeMakers Trope Maker]]. Many average people believed it too, feeling that a strong nationalistic leader who would put the good of the people first was preferable to elected bodies that would squabble at best and line their own pockets at worst. It took World War II to demolish that perspective by demonstrating just how disastrously ''bad'' it can be when you give [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler one man]], obsessed with protecting "his" people, absolute power.

* Embodied in Kondou in ''VisualNovel/{{Hakuouki}}'' who is the most idealistic out of TheShinsengumi but also the slowest to understand that it is [[EndOfAnEra the end of the Japanese Warrior]] and Westernization is becoming prevalent in Japan. It's telling that when the rest of the captains cut their hair and don Western-style clothing to adapt to the times, Kondou is the only one dressing in the traditional style he always wore.

* It wasn't just ThoseWackyNazis, the ''real'' Nazis, and the Italian Fascists who came before them, came to power largely by arguing that things like liberal democracy and individual rights (as opposed to the "common good") were outdated concepts and that totalitarian dictatorship was the way of the future. In keeping with this trope "pragmatic" was, in fact, one of Mussolini's favorite words (though Mussolini was decidedly less evil than modern guilt by association makes him out to be).

* In the video series ''WesternAnimation/AdventuresInOdyssey'', "Baby Daze", the BigBad calls Eugene's morals "outdated."

* UsefulNotes/WinstonChurchill was known to be old fashioned for his time, being culturally much more at home in the Victorian era of his youth. His speeches were full of historical references, whether to English history or to the classical era, and he had a tendency to go on about WoodenShipsAndIronMen or the Middle Ages, always evoking a kind of HollywoodHistory to inspire the British people. He remained a believer in UsefulNotes/TheBritishEmpire well past the point that it was fashionable, and as soon as the war in Europe ended, the British people voted him out because they sensed that he was too much of a historical relic to lead them in the postwar years. All that being said, his historical imagination and [[GoodIsOldFashioned respect for tradition]] helped him see that the kind of modernity the Nazis advocated would lead to a pretty horrifying future.