Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Main / DoomedMoralVictor

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''Film/{{The Star|2002}}'': The entire Russian reconnaissance squad, which has been operating behind German lines, is killed when they are cornered in a farmhouse. But before they died they radioed back the necessary intel that allowed the Soviets to crush the German attack--and of course the Russians are going to win the war eventually.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Add example

Added DiffLines:

** When the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have gathered to fight the Auditors in ''Thief of Time'', protecting life and humanity from being extinguished in favour of a mechanically simple universe, War points out that they're vastly outnumbered.
---> '''Death''': RIGHT IS ON OUR SIDE.\\
'''War''': Speaking as War, I'd hate to tell you what happens to very small armies that have Right on their side.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* PlayedForLaughs in ''WesternAnimation/TheBoondocks'' when it's shown that during the UsefulNotes/CivilRightsMovement Robert GotVolunteered by a group of SuicidalPacifist Freedom Riders who sought to invoke this trope by letting the racist mob kill them. Both Robert and the narrator point out how insane they sound, and the episode ends with them all being arrested.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Creator/JRRTolkien was, perhaps a little bit overly, fond of invoking this trope. Eomer invokes it at the climax of ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'', only to be dramatically saved by TheTwist. Aragorn also invokes it at the Black Gate: and again, gets dramatically saved. Of course, not everyone who invokes the trope gets saved: the Ents perish in their attack on Isengard, as was their intention. And their actions do pave the way for [[spoiler: Saruman's downfall at the hands of Wormtongue, by making him see that the fallen wizard is not invincible.]] But perhaps the straightest example of this trope in the Legendarium comes from ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'': with the death of Fingolfin. Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, upon seeing the devastation wrought by the Dagor Bragollach [[OneWingedAngel gets so angry people mistake him for a Vala]] and challenges [[BigBad Morgoth]] to single combat [[DidYouJustFlipOffChthulu with the entirely predictable result of getting himself horribly killed]]. However, because of his moral power he manages to [[DidYouJustPunchChthulu wound Morgoth permanently]] and his actions ultimately pave the way for Morgoth's eventual downfall at the hands of the Valar. Although a bunch of other really bad stuff happens first, including Maedhros crossing the DespairEventHorizon after the death of Fingolfin's son Fingon, and [[AvertedTrope averting this trope in the most horrifying way possible]].

to:

* Creator/JRRTolkien was, perhaps a little bit overly, fond of invoking this trope. Eomer invokes it at the climax of ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'', only to be dramatically saved by TheTwist. Aragorn also invokes it at the Black Gate: and again, gets dramatically saved. Of course, not everyone who invokes the trope gets saved: the Ents perish at least one Ent perishes in their attack on Isengard, as was their intention. And their actions do pave the way for [[spoiler: Saruman's downfall at the hands of Wormtongue, by making him see that the fallen wizard is not invincible.]] But perhaps the straightest example of this trope in the Legendarium comes from ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'': with the death of Fingolfin. Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, upon seeing the devastation wrought by the Dagor Bragollach [[OneWingedAngel gets so angry angry, people mistake him for a Vala]] Vala and challenges [[BigBad Morgoth]] to single combat [[DidYouJustFlipOffChthulu with the entirely predictable result of getting himself horribly killed]]. However, because of his moral power he manages to [[DidYouJustPunchChthulu wound [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu Morgoth permanently]] and his actions ultimately pave the way for Morgoth's eventual downfall at the hands of the Valar. Although a bunch of other really bad stuff happens first, including Maedhros crossing the DespairEventHorizon after the death of Fingolfin's son Fingon, and [[AvertedTrope averting this trope in the most horrifying way possible]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIII:'' At the end of the game, Desmond is faced with a SadisticChoice: [[spoiler:Use Juno's device to save Earth from a solar flare, and let her loose, which will kill him, or let the world burn, become a new messiah, and let human history repeat itself. Desmond regards the later choice as hopeless, and decides to go with the sacrifice, reasoning that ''someone'' will manage to stop Juno. Later works show Desmond was right on that score. But he still dies. And Abstergo steals and mutilates his corpse to make video games.]]

to:

* ''VideoGame/AssassinsCreedIII:'' At the end of the game, Desmond is faced with a SadisticChoice: [[spoiler:Use Juno's device to save Earth from a solar flare, and let her loose, which will kill him, or let the world burn, become a new messiah, and let human history repeat itself. Desmond regards the later choice as hopeless, and decides to go with the sacrifice, reasoning that ''someone'' will manage to stop Juno. Later works show Desmond was right on that score.score, when the Assassins ultimately killed Juno once and for all with the help of his son Elijah. But he still dies. And Abstergo steals and mutilates his corpse to make video games.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* This is one way to look at ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'''s [[spoiler:Refusal ending. Shepard, either unwilling to believe the Catalyst about the Crucible's abilities or not wanting to use the Crucible's powers for one moral reason or another, chooses to denounce the Reaper AI and take their chances at defeating the Reaper's in a conventional fight, stating that if they die, they will "die free". It doesn't work out for them or current galactic civilization. It does, however, give the next galactic cycle the chance to defeat the Reapers.]]

to:

* This is one way to look at ''VideoGame/MassEffect3'''s [[spoiler:Refusal ending. Shepard, either unwilling to believe the Catalyst about the Crucible's abilities or not wanting to use the Crucible's powers for one moral reason or another, chooses to denounce the Reaper AI and take their chances at defeating the Reaper's Reapers in a conventional fight, stating that if they die, they will "die free". It doesn't work out for them or current galactic civilization. It does, however, give the next galactic cycle the chance to defeat the Reapers.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> '''Android 16''': Cell was right. You think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained ''dust'', [[PyrrhicVictory the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns]]. You were a coward. To your last whimper.

to:

--> ---> '''Android 16''': Cell was right. You think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained ''dust'', [[PyrrhicVictory the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns]]. You were a coward. To your last whimper.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Creator/JRRTolkien was, perhaps a little bit overly, fond of invoking this trope. Eomer invokes it at the climax of ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'', only to be dramatically saved by TheTwist. Aragorn also invokes it at the Black Gate: and again, gets dramatically saved. Of course, not everyone who invokes the trope gets saved: the Ents perish in their attack on Isengard, as was their intention. And their actions do pave the way for [[spoiler: Saruman's downfall at the hands of Wormtongue, by making him see that the fallen wizard is not invincible.]] But perhaps the straightest example of this trope in the Legendarium comes from ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'': with the death of Fingolfin. Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor, upon seeing the devastation wrought by the Dagor Bragollach [[OneWingedAngel gets so angry people mistake him for a Vala]] and challenges [[BigBad Morgoth]] to single combat [[DidYouJustFlipOffChthulu with the entirely predictable result of getting himself horribly killed]]. However, because of his moral power he manages to [[DidYouJustPunchChthulu wound Morgoth permanently]] and his actions ultimately pave the way for Morgoth's eventual downfall at the hands of the Valar. Although a bunch of other really bad stuff happens first, including Maedhros crossing the DespairEventHorizon after the death of Fingolfin's son Fingon, and [[AvertedTrope averting this trope in the most horrifying way possible]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Duchess Satine in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheCloneWars'' is a pacifist and idealist, determined to keep her people out of the war and hopes to restore the republic to its rightful state as a peaceful institution. Unfortunately, in a war that is beyond your control, pacifism will only get you killed. [[spoiler:Which is exactly what happens to Satine when the war comes to Mandalore, courtesy of Darth Maul.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Defied in ''Theatre/{{Hadestown}}'', where Hades threatens to kill Orpheus after he sings "one more song" for him. Once Orpheus actually sings it and moves Hades' heart, Hades realizes killing him will make him a martyr to his workers while letting him go will make them agitate for freedom, so he arranges the famous test.

to:

* Defied in ''Theatre/{{Hadestown}}'', where Hades initially threatens to kill Orpheus after he sings "one more song" for him. Once Orpheus actually sings it and moves Hades' heart, Hades realizes killing him will make him a martyr to his workers while letting him go will make them agitate for freedom, so he arranges the famous test.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Theater]]
* Defied in ''Theatre/{{Hadestown}}'', where Hades threatens to kill Orpheus after he sings "one more song" for him. Once Orpheus actually sings it and moves Hades' heart, Hades realizes killing him will make him a martyr to his workers while letting him go will make them agitate for freedom, so he arranges the famous test.
[[/folder]]

Added: 640

Changed: 633

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Subverted in ''Music/TheProtomen''. In Act II, Joe dies a hero taking out Dr. Wily's broadcast, which would theoretically inspire people, but it turns out Wily had a backup plus an army of robots and uses the attack to declare martial law, cowing the citizens into obedience. In Act I, after Megaman kills Protoman, the latter whispers to his brother that if the citizens pass on his story, maybe someday they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he's free. The crowd immediately cheers Megaman for killing his brother and disavows Protoman entirely, leading him to leave the City in disgust as Wily's remaining forces turn on the crowd for thinking of rebelling at all.

to:

* Subverted in ''Music/TheProtomen''. Music/TheProtomen, twice.
**
In Act II, Joe dies a hero taking out Dr. Wily's broadcast, which would theoretically inspire people, but it turns out Wily had a backup plus an army of robots and uses the attack to declare martial law, cowing the citizens into obedience. obedience.
**
In Act I, after Megaman kills Protoman, the latter whispers to his brother that if the citizens pass on his story, maybe someday they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he's free. The crowd immediately cheers Megaman for killing his brother and disavows Protoman entirely, leading him to leave the City in disgust as Wily's remaining forces turn on the crowd for thinking of rebelling at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Film/ShredderOrpheus'', Axel has this view of Orpheus in the ending. While he failed his mission to save Eurydice and was decapitated, the younger generation is inspired by him, and he hopes one day they'll realize what he did it for.


Added DiffLines:

* Subverted in ''Music/TheProtomen''. In Act II, Joe dies a hero taking out Dr. Wily's broadcast, which would theoretically inspire people, but it turns out Wily had a backup plus an army of robots and uses the attack to declare martial law, cowing the citizens into obedience. In Act I, after Megaman kills Protoman, the latter whispers to his brother that if the citizens pass on his story, maybe someday they'll see a hero is just a man who knows he's free. The crowd immediately cheers Megaman for killing his brother and disavows Protoman entirely, leading him to leave the City in disgust as Wily's remaining forces turn on the crowd for thinking of rebelling at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


%%* In ''Film/TheUntouchables'', [[spoiler:the death of Jim Malone]].

to:

%%* In ''Film/TheUntouchables'', ''Film/TheUntouchables1987'', [[spoiler:the death of Jim Malone]].



Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Parodied in the book ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', where rebels (somewhat based upon LaResistance in ''Literature/LesMiserables'') use as their slogan something like "you may kill us, but you'll never take our freedom", which Pratchett notes that the villains consider the stupidest slogan they've ever heard. Ultimately, the book does present the rebels as a somewhat straight example of doomed moral victors, given that the evil ruler is assassinated and his forces are defeated, but this is tempered by the fact that his seemingly benevolent successor ends up being even worse. The entire fight is pointless anyway, the plot to assassinate Lord Winder was around since before LaResistance and occurs identically in both time lines, despite the pivotal (and only) battle going the opposite way.

to:

** Parodied in the book ''Literature/{{Night Watch|Discworld}}'', where rebels (somewhat based upon LaResistance in ''Literature/LesMiserables'') use as their slogan something like "you may kill us, but you'll never take our freedom", which Pratchett notes that the villains consider the stupidest slogan they've ever heard. Ultimately, the book does present the rebels as a somewhat straight example of doomed moral victors, given that the evil ruler is assassinated and his forces are defeated, but this is tempered by the fact that [[MeetTheNewBoss his seemingly benevolent successor ends up being even worse.worse]]. The entire fight is pointless anyway, the plot to assassinate Lord Winder was around since before LaResistance and occurs identically in both time lines, despite the pivotal (and only) battle going the opposite way.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not So Different has been renamed, and it needs to be dewicked/moved


** Cromwell doesn't think a lot of the idea of being a martyr in general--he's a Protestant, but he's trying to influence Henry into it so that his associates will stop getting burned as heretics. He's not impressed by John Tyndale's refusal to approve of Henry's marriage even though it would probably make it safe for him to return to England and advance his cause and says that he's NotSoDifferent from More--"mules who pose as men."

to:

** Cromwell doesn't think a lot of the idea of being a martyr in general--he's a Protestant, but he's trying to influence Henry into it so that his associates will stop getting burned as heretics. He's not impressed by John Tyndale's refusal to approve of Henry's marriage even though it would probably make it safe for him to return to England and advance his cause and [[NotSoDifferentRemark says that he's NotSoDifferent not that different]] from More--"mules who pose as men."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


-->-- '''Søren Kierkegaard'''

to:

-->-- '''Søren Kierkegaard'''Kierkegaard''', Journals
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ''Manga/OnePiece'': [[spoiler:Donquixote Rocinante's entire conflict with his older brother Donquixote Doflamingo. Rocinante dedicated his entire life to ending his brother's madness, but ultimately it ends in vain. Though, he still manages to get one up on his brother by preventing him from getting the Op-Op Fruit and giving it to Law, saving his life and allowing him to be free. On top of that, Law's love and devotion to Roci causes him to hate Doflamingo for his death and plan vengeance for the next thirteen years of his life. In essence, while Roci wasn't able to achieve his goal in life, his and his brother's actions created Doflamingo's worst enemy to take up his crusade against his brother in his stead, something that Doffy is very much aware of]].

to:

* ''Manga/OnePiece'': [[spoiler:Donquixote Rocinante's entire conflict with his older brother Donquixote Doflamingo. Rocinante dedicated his entire life to ending his brother's madness, but ultimately it ends in vain. Though, he still manages to get one up on his brother by preventing him from getting the Op-Op Fruit and giving it to Law, saving his life and allowing him to be free. On top of that, Law's love and devotion to Roci causes him to hate Doflamingo for his death and plan vengeance for the next thirteen years of his life. In essence, while Roci wasn't able to achieve his goal in life, his and his brother's actions created Doflamingo's worst enemy to take up his crusade against his brother in his stead, something that Doffy is very much aware of]].of. Eventually, Roci's wishes come to pass when Law allies himself with Luffy, who finally ends Doflamingo's reign of terror for good]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Ofelia in ''Film/PansLabyrinth''. This parallels the CNT-FAI in the UsefulNotes/SpanishCivilWar, the setting of the film.

to:

* Ofelia in ''Film/PansLabyrinth''. This parallels the CNT-FAI in the UsefulNotes/SpanishCivilWar, the setting of the film. While the communist rebels win the day and kill the main villain. Unfortunately, they will ultimatly fail to liberate Spain and Franco will rule for the next 31 years.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Ned Stark is remembered by many as a good man undone by the DeadlyDecadentCourt.

to:

** Ned Stark is remembered by many as a good man undone by the DeadlyDecadentCourt.DecadentCourt.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[spoiler:Satoko]] in ''VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry'''s ''Meakashi'' arc is brutally killed via stabbing by [[spoiler:Shion]] proclaiming that she will neither cry nor beg for [[spoiler:her brother]] to save her. And she doesn't. It's enough to make [[spoiler:Shion]] realize what horrible things they've been doing. [[spoiler:[[IgnoredEpiphany In a manner of speaking.]]]]

to:

* [[spoiler:Satoko]] in ''VisualNovel/HigurashiWhenTheyCry'''s ''Meakashi'' arc is brutally killed via stabbing by [[spoiler:Shion]] proclaiming that she will neither cry nor beg for [[spoiler:her brother]] to save her. And she doesn't. It's enough to make [[spoiler:Shion]] realize what horrible things they've been doing. [[spoiler:[[IgnoredEpiphany In a manner of speaking.]]]]speaking]], because she feels she's [[IveComeTooFar gone too far to deserve redemption]]]]. [[spoiler:It does influence her in a later arc however, where Shion has now become Satoko's loving surrogate sister and is willing to risk her life to protect her.]]

Added: 346

Changed: 149

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Cell is ''disgusted'' with Gohan's SuicidalPacifism, as he refuses to use his full power when everyone else is fighting even though they ''know'' they can't win. And to top that, Android 16's final speech is a harsh TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that [[{{Deconstruction}} tears this trope to shreds]], reprimanding Gohan for clinging to his morals against an opponent who doesn't care, even when it's clear doing so will cause the end of the world.

to:

** Cell is ''disgusted'' with Gohan's SuicidalPacifism, as he refuses to use his full power when everyone else is fighting even though they ''know'' they can't win. And to top that, Android 16's final speech is a harsh TheReasonYouSuckSpeech that [[{{Deconstruction}} tears this trope to shreds]], reprimanding Gohan for clinging to his morals against an opponent who doesn't care, even when it's clear shreds]]:
--> '''Android 16''': Cell was right. You think you're better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man
doing so will cause nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into bloodstained ''dust'', [[PyrrhicVictory the end of the world.only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns]]. You were a coward. To your last whimper.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''Film/ThirteenMinutes'': Elser fails to kill Hitler, obviously, and is later shot by the SS for it. However, he's remembered as a hero for trying.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In ''Literature/FiveLittlePigs'', many of the people Literature/HerculePoirot interviews about Caroline Crayle, the woman convicted for the murder of her husband that he has been hired to exonerate, note that although they don't believe in her innocence, the brave and dignified way she meets her conviction and eventual death was really quite impressive. [[spoiler:And she actually turns out to be this for the real murderer, who -- in addition to ruining her life and chances for future happiness due to her crime -- can't even take any satisfaction in seeing Caroline go down for the murder she committed, because Caroline's bravery and nobility just further remind her of how empty and pathetic she really is deep down.]]

to:

* In ''Literature/FiveLittlePigs'', many of the people Literature/HerculePoirot interviews about Caroline Crayle, the woman convicted for the murder of her husband that he has been hired to exonerate, note that although they don't believe in her innocence, the brave and dignified way she meets her conviction and eventual death was really quite impressive. [[spoiler:And she actually turns out to be this for the real murderer, who -- in addition to ruining her life and chances for future happiness due to her crime -- can't even take any satisfaction in seeing Caroline go down for the murder she committed, because Caroline's bravery and nobility just further remind her of how empty and pathetic she really is deep down.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* ''Literature/CagingSkies'': Roswita, the mother of the NaziProtagonist, is hanged for being a part of TheResistance of NaziGermany. Made even more heartbreaking in the [[Film/JojoRabbit film]], ''where her 10 year old son finds her hanged corpse in the public street''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Spoiler tag on Jojo Rabbit, man, come on


* In ''Film/JojoRabbit'' Jojo's mother Rosie gets hanged in the town square for trying to work against the Nazis from within Germany.

to:

* In ''Film/JojoRabbit'' [[spoiler: Jojo's mother Rosie gets hanged in the town square for trying to work against the Nazis from within Germany.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* From ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'' we have Wan, the very first Avatar. After [[spoiler:releasing chaos into the world and sealing it back up again, he (along with Raava, the embodiment of good and order) travels the world in an effort to prevent violence and war while Wan learns all four bending arts. Many years later, Wan dies of fatal wounds on a battle field, with Wan lamenting his inability to keep the balance. Raava promises him that they will always be together, until they create a world of peace.]] And thus, the Avatar cycle is created.

to:

* From ''WesternAnimation/TheLegendOfKorra'' we have Wan, the very first Avatar. After [[spoiler:releasing chaos into the world and sealing it back up again, he (along with Raava, the embodiment of good and order) travels travel the world in an effort to prevent violence and war while Wan learns all four bending arts. Many years later, Wan dies of fatal wounds on a battle field, with Wan lamenting his inability to keep the balance. Raava promises him that they will always be together, until they create a world of peace.]] And thus, the Avatar cycle is created.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In the third game, [[spoiler: After the exorcism of the true villain, Godot]] stops the end of the trial to point out that they still haven't found the killer and insists on using the evidence to do so, knowing that [[spoiler: it will undeniably lead to him being accused (correctly) of murder]]. It's done to point out that the guilty must always be punished, no matter how sympathetic their goals or efforts, ''especially'' when [[spoiler: Phoenix realizes what the truth is and tries desperately to avoid it]].

to:

** In the third game, [[spoiler: After after the exorcism of the true villain, Godot]] stops the end of the trial to point out that they still haven't found the killer and insists on using the evidence to do so, knowing that [[spoiler: it will undeniably lead to him being accused (correctly) of murder]]. It's done to point out that the guilty must always be punished, no matter how sympathetic their goals or efforts, ''especially'' when [[spoiler: Phoenix realizes what the truth is and tries desperately tries to avoid it]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Film/JojoRabbit'' Jojo's mother Rosie gets hanged in the town square for trying to work against the Nazis from within Germany.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Film/MadMaxFuryRoad'', [[spoiler:the Splendid Angharad]] dies during the escape, which temporarily demoralizes the group but they press on nonetheless in her honor. It serves as another contrast between [[BigGood her]] and [[BigBad Immortan Joe]]: her ideology lives beyond her, while his dies with him.

Top