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Add: speculation on what may have occurred had Garion lost at Cthol Misrak
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***On the other hand, Garion is given to understand (I don't recall which book- it's the very first time Garion learns he may have to kill Geran) that Torak passes the torch of duty to stop Zandramas' quest to his "hated brother" Garion in the sequence of Events that led to the Choice. Had Garion lost at Cthol Mishrak he would have been dead and no child between himself and Ce'Nedra would ever have been born (it was stated repeatedly that the meeting at Cthol Misrak was a fight to the death). In that case Torak would have remained the Child of Dark and it's possible, and given the perverse sense of humor of both Prophecies even intended, that the child born of a union between himself and Polgara would have been the Child of Light (Torak would have remained the Child of Dark and it's implied elsewhere that that never changes). This idea is supported by the knowledge among the Dals that Cyradis' choice was a choice between the Light and the Dark, which implies that a Child of Light must exist at that later date regardless of Garion's success or failure at the City of Endless Night.
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Add: further confusion regarding Beldin, Vala, being hawks, and animal forms taken by sorcerers
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** Additionally, it is stated in the same general area of text that the animal forms they take when they change shape immediately (albeit slowly) begin to take over their awareness. Eventually, if they never changed back from their hawk form, neither of them would ever remember having been human, a sorcerer, their companions and loved ones, or (presumably) anything they had done during the entire course of the books. Taken in that light their choice makes even less sense than it did before, especially given Beldin's own certain knowledge that this would be the case!
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a word
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" ("Polgara the Sorceress") and was enough to defy his will and cause him confusion. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss given she'd already demonstrated her capacity to effectively attack a god.
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" ("Polgara the Sorceress") and was enough to defy his will and cause him confusion. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think thinking too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss given she'd already demonstrated her capacity to effectively attack a god.
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Clarity of end, wording
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" ("Polgara the Sorceress") and was enough to defy his will and cause him confusion. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss.
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" ("Polgara the Sorceress") and was enough to defy his will and cause him confusion. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss.
amiss given she'd already demonstrated her capacity to effectively attack a god.
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Add additional reason for Belgarath to not really notice the centuries-old wolf: Poledra herself could have "tampered"
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" (Polgara the Sorceress) and was enough to defy his will. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss.
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" (Polgara ("Polgara the Sorceress) Sorceress") and was enough to defy his will.will and cause him confusion. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss.
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** At the battle of Vo Mimbre, Polgara and Polgara were merged together in the form of a snowy owl during the meeting between Kal Torak and Brand. The scream of defiance their owl issued in response to Torak's proposal of marriage between himself and Polgara "carried overtones of the voice of Aldur, and it also was the voice of UL" (Polgara the Sorceress) and was enough to defy his will. Thus, setting aside Belgarath's own perception of time as well as direct action taken by the Prophecy to keep him from think too hard about the wolf at his side, it's entirely possible that Poledra herself was keeping Belgarath from realizing that anything was amiss.
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[[WMG:Ce'Nedra's War]]
What was the point of Ce'Nedra's War? Up front, the reason was to prevent a significant Mallorean presence in the West. The goal was to get ships into the Sea of the East, and sink Mallorean troop transports and wreck supply lines. Going around the mostly uncharted coast of Cthol Murgos was deemed too risky or too long. The goal was met, but abandoned in about a month once word got out that Torak had been slain, and so presumably all the ships took this route back anyways, despite earlier mentions that their insertion into the Sea of the East was effectively a suicide run. Furthermore, since 'Zakath continued to make headway in his war for the next decade, he's clearly continuing to land more troops, and far more than were seen at Thull Mardu. From this perspective, the entire campaign was pointless.
Ce'Nedra's personal reasons are even more vague. I think the idea was a rehash of the Lord of the Rings. March the Armies of the West to distract attention from what Garion et al were up to. However, the way things were set up didn't have any of the the elements that made that plan make sense. Torak knew he was coming anyway, and no one involved in the Angarak side of the war would have been in the way to begin with.
Prophetic reasons were... to get Ce'Nedra, Polgara, Durnik, and Eriond to Cthol Mishrak? That seems excessive for even the Prophecies, given that their presence still didn't flow naturally from the events leading up to it. They all had to be kidnapped out of their tent and shipped across the Sea of the East. If anything, the presence of the Cherek fleet was working against them getting to Chthol Mishrak. There had to have been a way of making that happen that didn't uproot half the West and made a little more sense.
What was the point of Ce'Nedra's War? Up front, the reason was to prevent a significant Mallorean presence in the West. The goal was to get ships into the Sea of the East, and sink Mallorean troop transports and wreck supply lines. Going around the mostly uncharted coast of Cthol Murgos was deemed too risky or too long. The goal was met, but abandoned in about a month once word got out that Torak had been slain, and so presumably all the ships took this route back anyways, despite earlier mentions that their insertion into the Sea of the East was effectively a suicide run. Furthermore, since 'Zakath continued to make headway in his war for the next decade, he's clearly continuing to land more troops, and far more than were seen at Thull Mardu. From this perspective, the entire campaign was pointless.
Ce'Nedra's personal reasons are even more vague. I think the idea was a rehash of the Lord of the Rings. March the Armies of the West to distract attention from what Garion et al were up to. However, the way things were set up didn't have any of the the elements that made that plan make sense. Torak knew he was coming anyway, and no one involved in the Angarak side of the war would have been in the way to begin with.
Prophetic reasons were... to get Ce'Nedra, Polgara, Durnik, and Eriond to Cthol Mishrak? That seems excessive for even the Prophecies, given that their presence still didn't flow naturally from the events leading up to it. They all had to be kidnapped out of their tent and shipped across the Sea of the East. If anything, the presence of the Cherek fleet was working against them getting to Chthol Mishrak. There had to have been a way of making that happen that didn't uproot half the West and made a little more sense.
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** I imagine Durnik's title in the Dark Prophecies is something like "The Man Who Stays Alive".
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** The problem is that the length of time cuts both ways. Belgarath might not intuitively feel that a couple centuries is a lot of time, but he's still thinking as much as someone would in two centuries. Without some sort of outside mental engineering, he'd almost certainly connect the dots. Especially with Beltira, Belkira, and Beldin dropping by occasionally, since for them the wolf won't just be part of the background.
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In a world where sorcerers can transmute living creatures into something else, and sometimes even create things from thin air, they spend a great deal of time pitying the only remaining dragon yet not creating a mate for her and claiming they can't do anything for. I do not recall at any point in the story the Gods forbidding another dragon from being made for her to mate with. Hell, Sorcerers can transform into other creatures. Some Grolim didn't think they could get on Torak's good side by repopulating the world with Dragons?
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* Not only does Polgara seem controlling and bitchy in The Belgariad, but I'd say that her treatment of Garion in The Queen of Sorcery is firmly in {{Abusive Parents}} territory. After her ward murders a man in a pretty terrible way and is traumatised by it, Polgara starts pretending that his given name isn't really his name with no further explanation. Then she starts to telepathically deliver smug advice to him and tamper with his mind (making him write "Belgarion" instead of his real name when Ce'Nedra is teaching him to write). Not to mention that previously when Durnik, a grown-ass man, had a similar incident of killing a man for the first time and was very distraught by it, Polgara behaved very differently. Imagine all this from Garion's perspective; that's some FridgeHorror right there. No wonder Eddings retconned a lot of Polgara's character in the prequels.
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*** I always thought that maybe the Orb was the 'heart' of the whole stone, and the Sardion was the hollow exterior. They are magic stones, we wouldn't necessarily have to see a hole in the Sardion.
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* Beldurnik sounds kind of wrong, I don't think Durnik would wear that sort of nonsense
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* Beldurnik sounds kind of wrong, I don't think Durnik would wear that sort of nonsense
nonsense.
** Time has a way of influencing things. Belgarath is almost surprised when he's reminded that his name was originally Garath, having forgotten his name before his Master's blessing. Even Garion isn't quite comfortable with his Bel yet. (One line from either the books or a fic I read had Belgarath joking that Garion's 'Bel-' still squeaks when he goes around corners.) Give it a few hundred years and Belgarion and Beldurnik will probably be far more comfortable.
** Time has a way of influencing things. Belgarath is almost surprised when he's reminded that his name was originally Garath, having forgotten his name before his Master's blessing. Even Garion isn't quite comfortable with his Bel yet. (One line from either the books or a fic I read had Belgarath joking that Garion's 'Bel-' still squeaks when he goes around corners.) Give it a few hundred years and Belgarion and Beldurnik will probably be far more comfortable.
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*** Silk actually gets three prophecy titles, since Asharak refers to him as "The Rat" at one point.
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How is the part in bold compatible with the what precedes? It would means for the first "a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant" (and thus, the first person capable of fathering a half-dryad) you need the mother to be a half-dryad in the first place, which is a chicken-and-egg paradox!
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** How is the part in bold compatible with the what precedes? It would means for the first "a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant" (and thus, the first person capable of fathering a half-dryad) you need the mother to be a half-dryad in the first place, which is a chicken-and-egg paradox!
** Agreed. It doesn't make any sense. Nothing's going on with the Borune Dryads that doesn't equally apply to ALL Dryad genealogy. Every one of them has a human father. However, it might have something to do with them living so far from their tree and/or people. Dryad tree pollen prevents male children from fertilizing?
** Agreed. It doesn't make any sense. Nothing's going on with the Borune Dryads that doesn't equally apply to ALL Dryad genealogy. Every one of them has a human father. However, it might have something to do with them living so far from their tree and/or people. Dryad tree pollen prevents male children from fertilizing?
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** However, the above example is an ''stated'' exception to the above rules. The text of the ''original'' Ashabine Oracles that Garion reads is the part that Torak did '''not''' edit. Torak actually ''was'' the Voice of DarkProphecy (as the Mrin Prophet's counterpart) instead of the Child of Darkness (as Garion's counterpart) for a brief time, with grolims writting up what he said in a trance; and when he woke up from that trance, he did READ a LOT of things he didn't like - such as that he was an "interin god", was ''not'' to be the ultimate Child of Darkness (it being Zandramas instead), what was to happen with the Universe if the Dark Prophecy were to win (something which ''scared him sane''), and that -should he win his battle with Garion- he would wind up as the Child of Light. He was so horrorized by it all that, in his only moment of sanity of the whole series, wrote a personal letter to Garion ("hated brother") encouraging him to prevent that from happening... and ''then'' is when he relapsed into his usual habits of deleting and rewritting to his taste the texts he passed down to his grolims.
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** However, the above example is an ''stated'' exception to the above rules. The text of the ''original'' Ashabine Oracles that Garion reads is the part that Torak did '''not''' edit. Torak actually ''was'' the Voice of DarkProphecy Dark Prophecy (as the Mrin Prophet's counterpart) instead of the Child of Darkness (as Garion's counterpart) for a brief time, with grolims writting up what he said in a trance; and when he woke up from that trance, he did READ a LOT of things he didn't like - such as that he was an "interin god", was ''not'' to be the ultimate Child of Darkness (it being Zandramas instead), what was to happen with the Universe if the Dark Prophecy were to win (something which ''scared him sane''), and that -should he win his battle with Garion- he would wind up as the Child of Light. He was so horrorized by it all that, in his only moment of sanity of the whole series, wrote a personal letter to Garion ("hated brother") encouraging him to prevent that from happening... and ''then'' is when he relapsed into his usual habits of deleting and rewritting to his taste the texts he passed down to his grolims.
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** However, the above example is an ''stated'' exception to the above rules. The text of the ''original'' Ashabine Oracles that Garion reads is the part that Torak did '''not''' edit. Torak actually ''was'' the Voice of DarkProphecy (as the Mrin Prophet's counterpart) instead of the Child of Darkness (as Garion's counterpart) for a brief time, with grolims writting up what he said in a trance; and when he woke up from that trance, he did READ a LOT of things he didn't like - such as that he was an "interin god", was ''not'' to be the ultimate Child of Darkness (it being Zandramas instead), what was to happen with the Universe if the Dark Prophecy were to win (something which ''scared him sane''), and that -should he win his battle with Garion- he would wind up as the Child of Light. He was so horrorized by it all that, in his only moment of sanity of the whole series, wrote a personal letter to Garion ("hated brother") encouraging him to prevent that from happening... and ''then'' is when he relapsed into his usual habits of deleting and rewritting to his taste the texts he passed down to his grolims.
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Answer to why Garion doesn't have star skin
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*The Child of Light's skin didn't need to become starry because the Orb already contained the needed stars. Its mentioned a couple times throughout both series how the Orb's shine has a star-like glimmer to them. The Dark Prophecy's stone, though, did not contain the stars within it and so that task fell on the Child of Darkness. Therefore, either stone + Child pair could fill in the void left by the supernova.
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** I always took it that if Torak had won at the end of the Belgariad, Geran would still have to come into existance. The Dark Propercy would know that the final meeting needed Eriond and Geran, therefore it would make sure that Geran would still be born so he could play his part.
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** I always took it that if Torak had won at the end of the Belgariad, Geran would still have to come into existance. The Dark Propercy Prophecy would know that the final meeting needed Eriond and Geran, therefore it would make sure that Geran would still be born so he could play his part.
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* I guess it makes sense that no one really talks back to Polgara considering that she's a essentially disciple of a ''god''. I mean, it would be like giving lip to Moses or something. C'Nedra, on the other hand, seems to receive an awful amount of tolerance from such no nonsense people. I mean, Silk is a veritable wellspring of snide remarks - you would think he would have a few for C'Nedra. As it is, Garion's the only one who ever really argues with her, and everyone else seems to put that down as teenage bickering.
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* I guess it makes sense that no one really talks back to Polgara considering that she's a essentially disciple of a ''god''. I mean, it would be like giving lip to Moses or something. C'Nedra, Ce'Nedra, on the other hand, seems to receive an awful amount of tolerance from such no nonsense people. I mean, Silk is a veritable wellspring of snide remarks - you would think he would have a few for C'Nedra.Ce'Nedra. As it is, Garion's the only one who ever really argues with her, and everyone else seems to put that down as teenage bickering.
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*** The most frequent victim of Ce'Nedras tantrums, usually through no fault of his own, is Garion and the problem is that this is treated as something he just has to deal with and not as horrible behavior on the part of Ce'Nedra. The worst moments come during Castle of Wizardry, when Ce'Nedra shows every intention of making Garions life miserable because he suddenly outranks her and she doesn't know how to deal with that. Let us remember that this turn of events is in no way Garions fault and he seems to be just as upset by it. The solution? The purpose of the universe advises Garion to play along with Ce'Nedras egomania by making her his equal and in the process sets him up as a {{Henpecked Husband}} in their relationship. When this doesn't end her bitching, it is pointed out to Garion that Ce'Nedra doesn't like being forced to doing things and there is no-one else for her to take her anger out on so Garion must suffer. This is once again treated as acceptable behavior by everyone in-universe and Garion decides to solve the problem by playing into her sadism by suffering more visibly. This has some very {{Unfortunate Implications}} because it shows that Ce'Nedra is motivated more by sadistic impulses than any need to sort out her feelings. She doesn't like the situation she's in so she must make someone else suffer to make up for that and given Garions revelation that it might go by faster if he suffered more visibly, it seems obvious that her primary motivation is seeing someone else suffer, not needing time to sort out her own crap. Given that Garion has a lot on his plate, what with learning how to rule a kingdom and half a continent in addition to little things like fighting Gods, one has to wonder why the purpose of the universe chooses to punish him with an abusive marriage to a sadistic and egotistical wife.
*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable and (eventually) doesn't mind taking on the role of {{Henpecked Husband}}. As described in <em>Guardians of the West</em>, they have a rocky start to their relationship but manage to smooth things out with a little help from their friends.
*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable and (eventually) doesn't mind taking on the role of {{Henpecked Husband}}. As described in <em>Guardians of the West</em>, they have a rocky start to their relationship but manage to smooth things out with a little help from their friends.
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*** The most frequent victim of Ce'Nedras tantrums, usually through no fault of his own, is Garion and the problem is that this is treated as something he just has to deal with and not as horrible behavior on the part of Ce'Nedra. The worst moments come during Castle of Wizardry, when Ce'Nedra shows every intention of making Garions life miserable because he suddenly outranks her and she doesn't know how to deal with that. Let us remember that this turn of events is in no way Garions fault and he seems to be just as upset by it. The solution? The purpose of the universe advises Garion to play along with Ce'Nedras egomania by making her his equal and in the process sets him up as a {{Henpecked Husband}} HenpeckedHusband in their relationship. When this doesn't end her bitching, it is pointed out to Garion that Ce'Nedra doesn't like being forced to doing things and there is no-one else for her to take her anger out on so Garion must suffer. This is once again treated as acceptable behavior by everyone in-universe and Garion decides to solve the problem by playing into her sadism by suffering more visibly. This has some very {{Unfortunate Implications}} because it shows that Ce'Nedra is motivated more by sadistic impulses than any need to sort out her feelings. She doesn't like the situation she's in so she must make someone else suffer to make up for that and given Garions revelation that it might go by faster if he suffered more visibly, it seems obvious that her primary motivation is seeing someone else suffer, not needing time to sort out her own crap. Given that Garion has a lot on his plate, what with learning how to rule a kingdom and half a continent in addition to little things like fighting Gods, one has to wonder why the purpose of the universe chooses to punish him with an abusive marriage to a sadistic and egotistical wife.
*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable and (eventually) doesn't mind taking on the role of {{Henpecked Husband}}. As described in<em>Guardians ''Guardians of the West</em>, West'', they have a rocky start to their relationship but manage to smooth things out with a little help from their friends.friends.
*** Except that they're both barely 16 when they get married. Teenagers can be pretty horrible to themselves and everyone around them, even without the wringer that both Garion and Ce'Nedra are put through. Both grow up, both lose their respective immaturity (we just see it better with Garion because he's more often a viewpoint character). In doing so, Ce'Nedra grows out of her more problematic aspects, and she and Garion, a bumpy patch or two aside, end up very HappilyMarried.
*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable and (eventually) doesn't mind taking on the role of {{Henpecked Husband}}. As described in
*** Except that they're both barely 16 when they get married. Teenagers can be pretty horrible to themselves and everyone around them, even without the wringer that both Garion and Ce'Nedra are put through. Both grow up, both lose their respective immaturity (we just see it better with Garion because he's more often a viewpoint character). In doing so, Ce'Nedra grows out of her more problematic aspects, and she and Garion, a bumpy patch or two aside, end up very HappilyMarried.
*** Polgara's infuriated and frustrated for a number of reasons, one of which is that she ''has'' to be present at the final conflict with Torak - Belgarath's move could have derailed the entire Prophecy (it didn't, obviously, but it's an understandable leap at first glance). As for Ce'Nedra, yeah, she's being a bit petulant, but she's frustrated and hot-tempered and can't really do much about it.
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* I haven't read ''Polgara the Sorceress'', so maybe this is discussed there, but something that's always gotten to me in ''Pawn of Prophecy'' is how, in Val Alorn, Polgara just destroys Martje's ability to see the future so casually and in such a high-handed manner. It's a serious case of her being arrogant. I suppose it's a good example of a character flaw, which most good characters need, but . . . I wish we had seen the consequences, or something, anything that resulted from that. Besides further establishing Polgara as incredibly arrogant, the act seems worthless.
** I agree. It's a serious case of ProtagonistCenteredMorality- Martje might have been annoying, and she shouldn't have kept harassing Barak, but that's no excuse for Polgara to just fuck her over like that. (BTW, no, it's not mentioned in ''Polgara the Sorceress''- the book ends before ''Pawn of Prophecy''.)
** I agree. It's a serious case of ProtagonistCenteredMorality- Martje might have been annoying, and she shouldn't have kept harassing Barak, but that's no excuse for Polgara to just fuck her over like that. (BTW, no, it's not mentioned in ''Polgara the Sorceress''- the book ends before ''Pawn of Prophecy''.)
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* I haven't read ''Polgara the Sorceress'', so maybe this is discussed there, but something that's always gotten to me in ''Pawn of Prophecy'' is how, in Val Alorn, Polgara just destroys Martje's ability to see the future so casually and in such a high-handed manner. It's a serious case of her being arrogant. I suppose it's a good example of a character flaw, which most good characters need, but . . .but... I wish we had seen the consequences, or something, anything that resulted from that. Besides further establishing Polgara as incredibly arrogant, the act seems worthless.
** I agree. It's a serious case ofProtagonistCenteredMorality- ProtagonistCenteredMorality - Martje might have been annoying, and she shouldn't have kept harassing Barak, but that's no excuse for Polgara to just fuck her over like that. (BTW, no, it's not mentioned in ''Polgara the Sorceress''- the book ends before ''Pawn of Prophecy''.)
** I agree. It's a serious case of
**** Several hundred years of near constant warfare, with atrocities committed by both sides (we get a pretty good description of some from the Murgo side, though it's heavily implied that the Alorns are capable of being plenty nasty themselves) does a lot to build up hatred. In ''The Malloreon'', Silk mentions the instinctive Alorn hatred of Murgos when talking to Urgit, who's desperately seeking an alliance with Belgarion against 'Zakath, about how even if Belgarion was up for the idea, a lot of the rest of Alorns really, ''really'' wouldn't be. While he's dissembling at the time, there is something to what he's saying. Additionally, the three who are generally enthusiastic about the idea are Hettar, Barak, and Mandorallen. Hettar's a BloodKnight on a lifelong RoaringRampageOfRevenge which, while initially treated as a RunningGag, is also portrayed as an unhealthy obsession. Barak has the Alorn prejudice against Murgos and is a BloodKnight, mostly enjoying a good fight. And Mandorallen just enjoys a good fight.
**** Additionally, the main point of ''The Malloreon'' is to twist previous expectations, expanding on the one-dimensional impression of the Murgos and, to a lesser extent, other Angaraks. Nadraks were already fairly sympathetically depicted as the PunchClockVillain version of the Drasnians, Thulls are depicted pretty much universally as the poor downtrodden victims of the Grolims, and we don't really see much of the Malloreons in ''The Belgariad'', save briefly for 'Zakath. At the same time, it shows the less savoury side of the Alorns, dialling the Bear-Cult up from 'annoyance' to 'raving psychotic fanatics', being nearly as bad as the Grolims. The fact that the person leading them around by the nose is a Grolim himself is treated as incidental.
**** Additionally, the main point of ''The Malloreon'' is to twist previous expectations, expanding on the one-dimensional impression of the Murgos and, to a lesser extent, other Angaraks. Nadraks were already fairly sympathetically depicted as the PunchClockVillain version of the Drasnians, Thulls are depicted pretty much universally as the poor downtrodden victims of the Grolims, and we don't really see much of the Malloreons in ''The Belgariad'', save briefly for 'Zakath. At the same time, it shows the less savoury side of the Alorns, dialling the Bear-Cult up from 'annoyance' to 'raving psychotic fanatics', being nearly as bad as the Grolims. The fact that the person leading them around by the nose is a Grolim himself is treated as incidental.
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* Still, this troper had difficulty sympathising with the characters a lot of the time, because their extreme ProtagonistCenteredMorality effectively alienated them. And since she's here, she'll mention Beldin. Everyone ''says'' that he's actually very gentle - but he's one of the most violent and vindictive of the 'good guys'. ''He thinks Zedar got off too easy'' (this troper falls into the 'feels sorry for Zedar' camp). I'm supposed to believe he's a sweet and caring guy? I see why he became that way, sure, but . . . ''get real''.
** Remember, most of the people who view Beldin as gentle are fellow sorcerers who A, have known both Beldin and Zedar for a long time, and B, have had to deal with everything Zedar has done. They know how Beldin feels about himself, they know the problems he has had to face, and based on that, along with all the bad shit Zedar did, they're more inclined to view Beldin as the gentle one who does what he has to do in the service of Aldur and Zedar as the monster.
** Remember, most of the people who view Beldin as gentle are fellow sorcerers who A, have known both Beldin and Zedar for a long time, and B, have had to deal with everything Zedar has done. They know how Beldin feels about himself, they know the problems he has had to face, and based on that, along with all the bad shit Zedar did, they're more inclined to view Beldin as the gentle one who does what he has to do in the service of Aldur and Zedar as the monster.
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* Still, this troper had difficulty sympathising with the characters a lot of the time, because their extreme ProtagonistCenteredMorality effectively alienated them. And since she's here, she'll mention Beldin. Everyone ''says'' that he's actually very gentle - but he's one of the most violent and vindictive of the 'good guys'. ''He thinks Zedar got off too easy'' (this troper falls into the 'feels sorry for Zedar' camp). I'm supposed to believe he's a sweet and caring guy? I see why he became that way, sure, but . . .but... ''get real''.
** Remember, most of the people who view Beldin as gentle are fellow sorcerers whoA, a) have known both Beldin and Zedar for a long time, and B, b) have had to deal with everything Zedar has done. They know how Beldin feels about himself, they know the problems he has had to face, and based on that, along with all the bad shit Zedar did, they're more inclined to view Beldin as the gentle one who does what he has to do in the service of Aldur and Zedar as the monster.
** Remember, most of the people who view Beldin as gentle are fellow sorcerers who
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*** This is fixed somewhat in ''The Malloreon'', which depicts Angaraks, primarily Murgos and Malloreons (Nadraks and Thulls were already pretty sympathetically treated) as being much more than just the one-dimensional impression we get of them in ''The Belgariad'', and ultimately, people more or less like any others. This also makes much more sense, because the first series is primarily set in the Alorn kingdoms, which all have every reason to have a massive grudge against Murgos in particular, and we don't actually see many individual Murgos who aren't human-sacrificing Grolims, a Dagashi like Brill, or the infamously psychotic Taur Urgas - people in positions of power who make impressions and command their people to do their will, giving rise to an opinion akin to AllGermansAreNazis. ''The Malloreon'', set heavily in the Angarak kingdoms, neatly deconstructs this by showing that, shockingly, Angaraks, Murgos in particular, are just people like anyone else.
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* It could be that Zandramas' skin becoming starry but not Belgarion's is a side-effect of the Child of Light winning the most recent previous round, and had Garion lost that battle, he (or whoever the Child of Light would have been) would have become all starry as the Malloreon progressed.
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[[WMG:Dryads]]
The trope page says this (emphasis mine):
* OneGenderRace: The nonhuman Dryads. They kidnap human men and force them to father children. This goes one of two ways: a girl will always be a Dryad, and a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant. These Dryad genes can then be passed on to the children of that male — and they are, resulting in Ce'Nedra, who, thanks to dilution, is half Dryad. Pure dryads don't have male children. In "Belgarath the Sorcerer", Belgarath notes that crossbreeding dryads with the House of Borune did some odd things, since '''a pure dryad "would never give birth to a male child"'''.
How is the part in bold compatible with the what precedes? It would means for the first "a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant" (and thus, the first person capable of fathering a half-dryad) you need the mother to be a half-dryad in the first place, which is a chicken-and-egg paradox!
The trope page says this (emphasis mine):
* OneGenderRace: The nonhuman Dryads. They kidnap human men and force them to father children. This goes one of two ways: a girl will always be a Dryad, and a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant. These Dryad genes can then be passed on to the children of that male — and they are, resulting in Ce'Nedra, who, thanks to dilution, is half Dryad. Pure dryads don't have male children. In "Belgarath the Sorcerer", Belgarath notes that crossbreeding dryads with the House of Borune did some odd things, since '''a pure dryad "would never give birth to a male child"'''.
How is the part in bold compatible with the what precedes? It would means for the first "a boy will be human with Dryad genes lying dormant" (and thus, the first person capable of fathering a half-dryad) you need the mother to be a half-dryad in the first place, which is a chicken-and-egg paradox!
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* Beldurnik sounds kind of wrong, I don't think Durnik would wear that sort of nonsense
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Removed per TRS.
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* Crash courses into {{Badass}} are rarely very kind.
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* Crash courses into {{Badass}} badass are rarely very kind.
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** Queen of Sorcery explicitly mentions that the drugs she's taking to look young are killing her thats why Polgara had to turn her into a snake to make her immortal.
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* For that matter, pain is biological warning system to help an organism avoid injury or avoid making an injury worse. If gods aren't capable of healing because they're not able to be injured, they should also have no ability to feel pain. To put it another way, when UL was creating his children, why would he include 'can feel pain' without including 'can heal'? Is he a complete sadist? It's probably more likely that either gods ''can'' heal or gods ''cannot'' feel pain, and Torak's condition either way is solely the result of the Orb being very upset with him.
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*** The difference is that she's ''in love'' with Durnik, which the story makes relatively clear pretty early on. The only other time we see her in love, she's preparing to abandon everything to go down fighting with the Wacites. It fits her characterization that her feelings for Durnik get him special attention that Garion does not. For Durnik's part, I don't think he'd gotten over his worship of her enough to call her out on much of anything.
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*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable. He (usually) doesn't mind playing the role of {{Henpecked Husband}} and knows he can put his foot down when he absolutely needs to. Ce'Nedra also matures as the series' progress, losing some of her more childish tendencies while still retaining her talent for manipulating others as noted below.
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*** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable. He (usually) adorable and (eventually) doesn't mind playing taking on the role of {{Henpecked Husband}} and knows he can put his foot down when he absolutely needs to. Ce'Nedra also matures as Husband}}. As described in <em>Guardians of the series' progress, losing some of her more childish tendencies while still retaining her talent for manipulating others as noted below.West</em>, they have a rocky start to their relationship but manage to smooth things out with a little help from their friends.
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Added under Ce'Nedra and Polgara.
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**** Keep in mind that Garion actually finds Ce'Nedra's petulance adorable. He (usually) doesn't mind playing the role of {{Henpecked Husband}} and knows he can put his foot down when he absolutely needs to. Ce'Nedra also matures as the series' progress, losing some of her more childish tendencies while still retaining her talent for manipulating others as noted below.
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** Roughly half of the problems with Garion would have been avoided if Polgara would just explain things to him rather than keep him in the dark. Ironically, Asharak/Chamdar is absolutely right. She has kept Garion in the dark just for the sake of keeping a secret and continues to do so throughout most of the story. It helps when you understand that Polgara is incompetent at parenting and her {{Informed Ability}} at child-rearing is a result of unreliable witnesses and people who don't have all the facts. To her credit she does admit in the beginning that she is unsuited to the task the other sorcerers have given her and all the evidence suggests that everyone really should take her at her word. She seems to do well with toddlers but is utterly out of her depth when the child starts to understand and inquire about the world around them. Belgarath and Durnik actually do a pretty decent job of explaining things to Garion as soon as they figure out what's bugging him, but Polgara is still his guardian and as such has all the authority when it comes to raising him. Belgarath even calls her out on her lack of parenting skills and especially the patience required a few times in the beginning. The problems usually rise when Belgarath isn't around to explain things to Garion and Polgara is left alone with the responsibility. The reason everyone treats Polgara as a model parent is because Garion doesn't turn out half-bad. The thing is that outsiders don't know that she didn't raise him on her own and that his best qualities come from sources other than Polgara. It is stated outright in the first book that Durnik is responsible for his strong moral core, humility and Sendarian values. Belgarath is responsible for making him understand and accept who he is and learning the importance of studying. Polgara is actually only responsible for Garions worst qualities like his insecurity, reliance on other people, naiveté and lack of formal education. She just gets the credit because those who don't know better assume all that is good about him comes from her and those who know better i.e. Garion, Durnik and Belgarath all love her too much to see her in anything but the best possible light.
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**** The point is that the question is hypothetical and the whole premise is that there is no-one to hear the sound. So the question is “Is sound still sound if no-one hears it?”. The oh-so-wise womenfolk answer the question by saying that trees and birds can hear too. That is not an answer to the question, they are just changing the question, making their contribution to the conversation utterly irrelevant. This should be treated as sheer idiocy, which it is, rather than an intelligent answer, which it's not.
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*** The most frequent victim of Ce'Nedras tantrums, usually through no fault of his own, is Garion and the problem is that this is treated as something he just has to deal with and not as horrible behavior on the part of Ce'Nedra. The worst moments come during Castle of Wizardry, when Ce'Nedra shows every intention of making Garions life miserable because he suddenly outranks her and she doesn't know how to deal with that. Let us remember that this turn of events is in no way Garions fault and he seems to be just as upset by it. The solution? The purpose of the universe advises Garion to play along with Ce'Nedras egomania by making her his equal and in the process sets him up as a {{Henpecked Husband}} in their relationship. When this doesn't end her bitching, it is pointed out to Garion that Ce'Nedra doesn't like being forced to doing things and there is no-one else for her to take her anger out on so Garion must suffer. This is once again treated as acceptable behavior by everyone in-universe and Garion decides to solve the problem by playing into her sadism by suffering more visibly. This has some very {{Unfortunate Implications}} because it shows that Ce'Nedra is motivated more by sadistic impulses than any need to sort out her feelings. She doesn't like the situation she's in so she must make someone else suffer to make up for that and given Garions revelation that it might go by faster if he suffered more visibly, it seems obvious that her primary motivation is seeing someone else suffer, not needing time to sort out her own crap. Given that Garion has a lot on his plate, what with learning how to rule a kingdom and half a continent in addition to little things like fighting Gods, one has to wonder why the purpose of the universe chooses to punish him with an abusive marriage to a sadistic and egotistical wife.
