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** Who says there was any purge at all? Only Martin-- a triple agent whose ultimate loyalty is to the Fellowship. Martin is careful to mention that the supposed purge was done on his own initiative, and began just two hours prior, making it conveniently unverifiable by anyone present. Remember, his plan to destroy the Court ''depends'' on getting Susan to feed on him and turn-- his description of the purges is just a way to maximize the pain of his apparent betrayal and incite her bloodlust. [[ThanatosGambit The guy knows he'll be dead, win or lose]], within the next few minutes-- he doesn't need his report of the purges to hold up to actual scrutiny.
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** I assume it had to be [[spoiler: His daughter because one; She was of his blood and two; she loved him. Remember, she said 'I love you' to which he replied 'That's the problem'. If she had not loved him, and been WILLING to die for him to achieve his goals, she would not have been the one sacrificed.]]

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** I assume it had to be [[spoiler: His his daughter because one; She was of his blood and two; she loved him. Remember, she said 'I love you' to which he replied 'That's the problem'. If she had not loved him, and been WILLING to die for him to achieve his goals, she would not have been the one sacrificed.]]

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*** I don't know if "execution" was clearly on Michael's mind, but there was at least one fight where he offered redemption to Nicodemus, but switched toa more aggressive fighting form when it was refused. I suspect that as long as redemption is ''legitimately'' offered and refused, then Knights are allowed to attempt to deal with it, since in a 'free will' way Nicodemus is dangerous if left free to do what he wants. (For a tangential equivalent as to why he's allowed to escape, in ''Turn Coat'' Injun Joe let Shagnasty escape because of the chance of collateral damage of the fight went on much longer.)

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*** I don't know if "execution" was clearly on Michael's mind, but there was at least one fight where he offered redemption to Nicodemus, but switched toa to a more aggressive fighting form when it was refused. I suspect that as long as redemption is ''legitimately'' offered and refused, then Knights are allowed to attempt to deal with it, since in a 'free will' way Nicodemus is dangerous if left free to do what he wants. (For a tangential equivalent as to why he's allowed to escape, in ''Turn Coat'' Injun Joe let Shagnasty escape because of the chance of collateral damage of the fight went on much longer.)
** There's also a difference between killing in combat (and after all, Nicodemus started the fight against Michael), which is self-defense, and murdering someone in cold blood or for revenge.


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* There's also the fact that Nicodemus was bound by the terms of the agreement until Harry manipulated him into attacking first in the vault. Going after the family of someone in your crew is not a good move, no matter your personal animosity, since it makes people and other beings that much less willing to work with you in the future once word of that gets out. Until, that is, Harry drives him past the breaking point and Nic ''snaps''.
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*** I don't know if "execution" was clearly on Michael's mind, but there was at least one fight where he offered redemption to Nicodemus, but switched toa more aggressive fighting form when it was refused. I suspect that as long as redemption is ''legitimately'' offered and refused, then Knights are allowed to attempt to deal with it, since in a 'free will' way Nicodemus is dangerous if left free to do what he wants. (For a tangential equivalent as to why he's allowed to escape, in ''Turn Coat'' Injun Joe let Shagnasty escape because of the chance of collateral damage of the fight went on much longer.)
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* Even if Uriel were to Fall, the archangel wouldn't necessarily wind up ''cooperating'' with the Denarian's agenda. Aside from (possibly) the Outsiders, supernatural villains in the Dresdenverse are ''always'' every bit as impeded by infighting as by the good guys' opposition.

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* Even if Uriel were to Fall, the archangel wouldn't necessarily wind up ''cooperating'' with the Denarian's agenda. Aside from (possibly) the Outsiders, supernatural villains in the Dresdenverse are ''always'' every bit as impeded by infighting as by the good guys' opposition. If anything, violating Uriel's Grace might ''free'' the archangel to do dreadful things to the bastards who brought him low, no longer constrained by an obligation to respect mortal free will.

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** Telling anyone who's not one of the Knights about a hypothetical means of killing Nicodemus would only mean setting up potential would-be heroes to get themselves killed ''by'' Nick. Telling a Knight of the Cross, conversely, would mean setting up one of the Swords to potentially get de-powered, because it's inherently contrary to the Knights' purpose to go after a Denarian with the sole intent to execute them rather than free them of their Fallen.



** Given Anduriel's role as TheSpymaster, he almost certainly knows about Molly. If Nicodemus were to go after the Carpenters, he would have the Winter Lady and the Winter Knight (a guy who knows his chief weakness) both actively out for his blood.
** Nicodemus and Anduriel pretty clearly don't know what Uriel did. Otherwise, he'd have been too valuable a target to pass up. Even if Nicodemus died and Anduriel's coin was captured, that would still be a net win for the Denarians as Uriel is far stronger than any of them. As for why they didn't realize, that's harder to answer. It may have been a case of EvilCannotComprehendGood as that's been a problem for Nic in the past (such as his refusal to believe Dresden could have turned Lasciel's shadow in Small Favor) or simple VillainBall.

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** * Given Anduriel's role as TheSpymaster, he almost certainly knows about Molly. If Nicodemus were to go after the Carpenters, he would have the Winter Lady and the Winter Knight (a guy who knows his chief weakness) both actively out for his blood.
** * Nicodemus and Anduriel pretty clearly don't know what Uriel did. Otherwise, he'd have been too valuable a target to pass up. Even if Nicodemus died and Anduriel's coin was captured, that would still be a net win for the Denarians as Uriel is far stronger than any of them. As for why they didn't realize, that's harder to answer. It may have been a case of EvilCannotComprehendGood as that's been a problem for Nic in the past (such as his refusal to believe Dresden could have turned Lasciel's shadow in Small Favor) ''Small Favor'') or simple VillainBall.VillainBall.
* Even if Uriel were to Fall, the archangel wouldn't necessarily wind up ''cooperating'' with the Denarian's agenda. Aside from (possibly) the Outsiders, supernatural villains in the Dresdenverse are ''always'' every bit as impeded by infighting as by the good guys' opposition.
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** Or Martin had deliberately omitted some of the Fellowship's operatives from the purge he'd orchestrated, to ensure that if his ThanatosGambit ''didn't'' pay off, the organization could rebuild itself and keep right on fighting the Red Court. He really only needed to rat out those resistance-forces which the Red King actually knew about, which - considering ''he'' was the Reds' highest-placed source of information on the Fellowship - doesn't necessarily mean ''all'' of them.
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** Nicodemus and Anduriel pretty clearly don't know what Uriel did. Otherwise, he'd have been too valuable a target to pass up. Even if Nicodemus died and Anduriel's coin was captured, that would still be a net win for the Denarians as Uriel is far stronger than any of them. As for why they didn't realize, that's harder to answer. It may have been a case of EvilCannotComprehendGood as that's been a problem for Nic in the past (such as his refusal to believe Dresden could have turned Lasciel's shadow in Small Favor) or simple VillainBall.
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** There are several answers on the Fridge page; take a look.


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** Don't forget, you still have to get within arm's reach of a MasterSwordsman with a Fallen Angel as backup. It's possible Harry has told Sanya offscreen, but Nicodemus has survived for 2,000 years very simply because it's a darned hard loophole to exploit. Heck, Harry was only able to take advantage of it in ''Small Favor'' because Nicodemus thought he was incapicatated.


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** Given Anduriel's role as TheSpymaster, he almost certainly knows about Molly. If Nicodemus were to go after the Carpenters, he would have the Winter Lady and the Winter Knight (a guy who knows his chief weakness) both actively out for his blood.
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[[folder: Why didn't Nick send goons after Uriel while Michael had his Grace?]]
Nicodemus ''saw'' Michael come out limping, and then saw Uriel take away his cane. Nick knows exactly what abilities angels have, and what limitations are placed on them. He would have known what just happened, or at least known it was likely. So why didn't he send his Squires after Uriel while the heist was in progress and Michael and Uriel's Grace were across town and then in the Underworld? Or, on the other hand, why didn't he try harder to force or trick Michael into breaking the rules, thus causing Uriel to Fall?
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Why hasn't Harry told anyone about Nicodemus's vulnerability?]]
Harry figured out the fact that the one thing that could kill Nicodemus was the noose that gives him his nigh-invulnerability. He almost succeeded in killing Nick with it, to the point of permanently damaging Nick's voice. So why the heck is he keeping it a secret? Why hasn't he told everyone he can about it? Sanya would certainly find that useful information, as would the newest Knight. Heck, he could have published the information all over the Paranet, and/or gone to St Mary's and let the Church in on it, tipped off Marcone how to get the ultimate revenge. I can see why he wouldn't want to, say, go on Larry Fowler and tell the world about the Fallen, because that would likely bring them new potential recruits as well, but why hasn't he told ''anyone''??

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Standard format for Headscratchers (which ask a question); moved mine to WMG because it really is one.


[[WMG:About the Gate of Blood...]]

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[[WMG:About [[folder: About the Gate of Blood...]]




[[WMG:About the Parasite...]]

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\n[[WMG:About [[/folder]]

[[folder: About
the Parasite...]]




[[WMG: How much does Lasciel know from Lash? ''Nothing.'']]
* By the end of her existence, Lash was on Harry's side, willing to die to protect him. Initially it seemed like she was destroyed with no chance to communicate with Lasciel. Even if she wasn't, Lash said that Lasciel would never let her rejoin her mentally now. And if they ''did'' merge, shouldn't at least some of Lash's new affection for Harry have come with her?

So most likely, Lash never merged with Lasciel, never gave her any info about Harry.

''Lasciel was bluffing about that.''

Look at what she says to Harry. She calls him "lover," because even though she knows he never took up the coin, she cannot conceive of a man, given the chance at completely realistic fantasy sex with whatever female form they choose, turning down the opportunity completely. She assumes Harry ''must'' have taken her up on at least that part of her offerings. Everything else could come from Anduriel eavesdropping on Harry's conversation with Murphy, when he told ''her'' about the spirit gestating in his head.

Harry buys her bluff and assumes Lasciel knows everything that transpired between himself and Lash, but in truth, she doesn't know any more than what she can guess and Anduriel can pass along to her.

[[WMG:The Fellowship of St. Giles]]

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\n[[WMG: How much does Lasciel know from Lash? ''Nothing.'']]\n* By the end of her existence, Lash was on Harry's side, willing to die to protect him. Initially it seemed like she was destroyed with no chance to communicate with Lasciel. Even if she wasn't, Lash said that Lasciel would never let her rejoin her mentally now. And if they ''did'' merge, shouldn't at least some of Lash's new affection for Harry have come with her?\n\nSo most likely, Lash never merged with Lasciel, never gave her any info about Harry.\n\n''Lasciel was bluffing about that.''\n\nLook at what she says to Harry. She calls him "lover," because even though she knows he never took up the coin, she cannot conceive of a man, given the chance at completely realistic fantasy sex with whatever female form they choose, turning down the opportunity completely. She assumes Harry ''must'' have taken her up on at least that part of her offerings. Everything else could come from Anduriel eavesdropping on Harry's conversation with Murphy, when he told ''her'' about the spirit gestating in his head.\n\nHarry buys her bluff and assumes Lasciel knows everything that transpired between himself and Lash, but in truth, she doesn't know any more than what she can guess and Anduriel can pass along to her.\n\n[[WMG:The [[/folder]]

[[folder: The
Fellowship of St. Giles]]



** Martin was only telling the Red King what was ''supposed'' to be happening, not reporting on definitely confirmed facts. Some cells may have held out longer or better than he'd anticipated, thus still been alive and fighting before their elders crumbled to dust even as their great enemy did too.

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** Martin was only telling the Red King what was ''supposed'' to be happening, not reporting on definitely confirmed facts. Some cells may have held out longer or better than he'd anticipated, thus still been alive and fighting before their elders crumbled to dust even as their great enemy did too.too.
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** At least a half-truth? The Fellowship is destroyed, Asher hears how the Red Court was wiped out, someone connect the dots for her using a 'well placed' lie? (We don't hear exactly what she knows before she dies. Although, yes,.it could be a retcon or a misremembered plot point when written, I guess.)

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** At least a half-truth? The Fellowship is destroyed, Asher [[spoiler: Asher]] hears how the Red Court was wiped out, someone connect the dots for her them using a 'well placed' lie? (We don't hear exactly what she knows they know before she dies. they die. Although, yes,.yes, it could be a retcon or a misremembered plot point when written, I guess.))
** Martin was only telling the Red King what was ''supposed'' to be happening, not reporting on definitely confirmed facts. Some cells may have held out longer or better than he'd anticipated, thus still been alive and fighting before their elders crumbled to dust even as their great enemy did too.
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** I assume it had to be [[spoiler: His daughter because one; She was of his blood and two; she loved him. Remember, she said 'I love you' to which he replied 'That's the problem'. If she had not loved him, and been WILLING to die for him to achieve his goals, she would not have been the one sacrificed.]]
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* So [[spoiler: Ascher]] blames Dresden for the destruction of the Fellowship of St. Giles, claiming that his eradication of the Red Court also took out many of the half-vampires who made up the Fellowship of St. Giles. But wasn't the Fellowship destroyed by the Red Court during the events of ''Changes''? Martin gave them up to the Red King to maintain his cover and implies him and Susan are the only ones left by the battle of Chichen Itza. Granted, it's not impossible one of them was lying or the Red Court missed the cell [[spoiler: Ascher]] was involved with, but it still seems like a RetCon.

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* So [[spoiler: Ascher]] blames Dresden for the destruction of the Fellowship of St. Giles, claiming that his eradication of the Red Court also took out many of the half-vampires who made up the Fellowship of St. Giles. But wasn't the Fellowship destroyed by the Red Court during the events of ''Changes''? Martin gave them up to the Red King to maintain his cover and implies him and Susan are the only ones left by the battle of Chichen Itza. Granted, it's not impossible one of them was lying or the Red Court missed the cell [[spoiler: Ascher]] was involved with, but it still seems like a RetCon.RetCon.
** At least a half-truth? The Fellowship is destroyed, Asher hears how the Red Court was wiped out, someone connect the dots for her using a 'well placed' lie? (We don't hear exactly what she knows before she dies. Although, yes,.it could be a retcon or a misremembered plot point when written, I guess.)
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Harry buys her bluff and assumes Lasciel knows everything that transpired between himself and Lash, but in truth, she doesn't know any more than what she can guess and Anduriel can pass along to her.

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Harry buys her bluff and assumes Lasciel knows everything that transpired between himself and Lash, but in truth, she doesn't know any more than what she can guess and Anduriel can pass along to her.her.

[[WMG:The Fellowship of St. Giles]]
* So [[spoiler: Ascher]] blames Dresden for the destruction of the Fellowship of St. Giles, claiming that his eradication of the Red Court also took out many of the half-vampires who made up the Fellowship of St. Giles. But wasn't the Fellowship destroyed by the Red Court during the events of ''Changes''? Martin gave them up to the Red King to maintain his cover and implies him and Susan are the only ones left by the battle of Chichen Itza. Granted, it's not impossible one of them was lying or the Red Court missed the cell [[spoiler: Ascher]] was involved with, but it still seems like a RetCon.
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** Don't forget, Hades doesn't exactly want lots of people coming along, only those who truly have the ability to wield the weapons. Any old ManipulativeBastard could get someone to help them out, but most of those Hades probably wouldn't consider competent enough to use those items.
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** [[Tropers/CurledUpWithDakka I]] expect one of two things: 1.) Knowing how Harry feels conflicted about Molly, why add a reason to feel conflicted about her? 2.) Molly is currently not a "woman" in his life; she's too Fey (as shown with the 'cell phone test') to be a candidate. (And this would depend on the qualifications for "Who should I look like?")

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** [[Tropers/CurledUpWithDakka I]] expect one of two things: 1.) Knowing how Harry feels conflicted about Molly, why add a reason to feel conflicted about her? 2.) Molly is currently not a "woman" in his life; she's too Fey (as shown with the 'cell phone test') to be a candidate. (And this would depend on the qualifications for "Who should I look like?")like?")

[[WMG: How much does Lasciel know from Lash? ''Nothing.'']]
* By the end of her existence, Lash was on Harry's side, willing to die to protect him. Initially it seemed like she was destroyed with no chance to communicate with Lasciel. Even if she wasn't, Lash said that Lasciel would never let her rejoin her mentally now. And if they ''did'' merge, shouldn't at least some of Lash's new affection for Harry have come with her?
So most likely, Lash never merged with Lasciel, never gave her any info about Harry.
''Lasciel was bluffing about that.''
Look at what she says to Harry. She calls him "lover," because even though she knows he never took up the coin, she cannot conceive of a man, given the chance at completely realistic fantasy sex with whatever female form they choose, turning down the opportunity completely. She assumes Harry ''must'' have taken her up on at least that part of her offerings. Everything else could come from Anduriel eavesdropping on Harry's conversation with Murphy, when he told ''her'' about the spirit gestating in his head.
Harry buys her bluff and assumes Lasciel knows everything that transpired between himself and Lash, but in truth, she doesn't know any more than what she can guess and Anduriel can pass along to her.
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* Why does it take the form of every woman in Harry's life who actually means something to him, but has nothing of Molly in its appearance? While he doesn't reciprocate her romantic feelings, he does care about her quite a bit, and the spirit doesn't just take features from women he cares about romantically.

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* Why does it take the form of every woman in Harry's life who actually means something to him, but has nothing of Molly in its appearance? While he doesn't reciprocate her romantic feelings, he does care about her quite a bit, and the spirit doesn't just take features from women he cares about romantically.romantically.
** [[Tropers/CurledUpWithDakka I]] expect one of two things: 1.) Knowing how Harry feels conflicted about Molly, why add a reason to feel conflicted about her? 2.) Molly is currently not a "woman" in his life; she's too Fey (as shown with the 'cell phone test') to be a candidate. (And this would depend on the qualifications for "Who should I look like?")
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** Considering how this might not be the first time the Fallen have encountered an embryonic intellect-spirit's "parent", Anduriel might simply have mentioned Harry's headaches to Lasciel after one of his spying forays, and she (knowing the circumstances under which Lash's link to her was cut off) put two and two together.
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Further guess (more a guess, not from anything from Word of Author)



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** This part's just a guess, but: [[spoiler: a random associate would not be a sacrifice. At a guess, the gate required a sacrifice- someone the killer truly cared about, whose loss would -be- a loss.]]
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** Just before her HeroicSacrifice, Lash says that for that act, Lasciel won't take her back. This suggests that there was some degree of communication after said sacrifice between Lash and Lasciel. Furthermore, a) Anduriel was noted to be spending much of the affair listening to Dresden's shadow, and he was unprotected when he informed Murph. Anduriel could easily have tipped off Lasciel, b) with such a powerful spirit of intellect effectively gestating in his brain, it wouldn't be hard for Lasciel to notice that something is up and draw the correct conclusion.

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** Just before her HeroicSacrifice, Lash says that for that act, Lasciel won't take her back. This suggests that there was some degree of communication after said sacrifice between Lash and Lasciel. Furthermore, a) Anduriel was noted to be spending much of the affair listening to Dresden's shadow, and he was unprotected when he informed Murph. Anduriel could easily have tipped off Lasciel, b) with such a powerful spirit of intellect effectively gestating in his brain, it wouldn't be hard for Lasciel to notice that something is up and draw the correct conclusion.conclusion.
* Why does it take the form of every woman in Harry's life who actually means something to him, but has nothing of Molly in its appearance? While he doesn't reciprocate her romantic feelings, he does care about her quite a bit, and the spirit doesn't just take features from women he cares about romantically.
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** It's also possible that brainwashing doesn't persist after death, in which case any shade that rose from such a sacrifice would refuse to pull the lever. Indeed, it might even ''fight'' [[spoiler: Dierdre's shade]] if Nick had brought one of his Mooks along to see if he'd be a sufficient sacrifice, and held in reserve the option of [[spoiler: killing his daughter]].

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** It is still, technically, formed partly from her

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** It is still, technically, formed partly from herher.
** Just before her HeroicSacrifice, Lash says that for that act, Lasciel won't take her back. This suggests that there was some degree of communication after said sacrifice between Lash and Lasciel. Furthermore, a) Anduriel was noted to be spending much of the affair listening to Dresden's shadow, and he was unprotected when he informed Murph. Anduriel could easily have tipped off Lasciel, b) with such a powerful spirit of intellect effectively gestating in his brain, it wouldn't be hard for Lasciel to notice that something is up and draw the correct conclusion.
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* Why does [[spoiler: The True Lasciel]] know about the Parasite's existence? Wasn't it a separate entity?

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* Why does [[spoiler: The True Lasciel]] know about the Parasite's existence? Wasn't it a separate entity?entity?
** It is still, technically, formed partly from her
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** From discussions on the Dresden forums, the general theories are either that Dierdre was the only one he could ''truly'' trust to open the gate for him or that "blood" refers as much to familial descent as it does to death, and therefore only someone related to Nicodemus could have done it.
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[[WMG:About the Gate of Blood...]]
* Why was Nicodemus unable to find someone else to [[spoiler: die for him and open the gate of blood]]? It's established early on that Nick has a whole cult of brainwashed followers and has a knack for psychological manipulation. Why was he not able to devote a little time to manipulating someone into (believing they'd) fallen in love with him, to the point they'd do anything for him?

[[WMG:About the Parasite...]]
* Why does [[spoiler: The True Lasciel]] know about the Parasite's existence? Wasn't it a separate entity?

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