History Headscratchers / PhoenixWrightAceAttorney

*** It's HEAVILY implied that channelling any spirit besides one from the Fey family requires an extensive and complex channelling. Mia specifically tells Phoenix, "You're lucky I was born a Fey." Not that he's lucky Maya was born a Fey, which implies that Maya was able to channel Mia so easily because she's the spirit of a Fey family member. In contrast, the (failed) channelling of Mini's spirit in case 2-2 required a rather specific camber set up, and a long session where they meditate on a mat just do channel her spirit. If they needed to do such a thing in order to channel the spirit of the victim each time, it'd be impossible. They couldn't just request that Kurain let them perform a channelling of a murder victim every other few months.

** Why wouldn't it? It would make Phoenix less attractive a lawyer to guilty clientele because they know he'll work harder for the truth than he will for an acquittal, but his actions dealing with Engarde would have easily made him into a superstar attorney. He took a high-profile case, and against immense odds managed to get the guilty party his just desserts, even when that guilty party was his client. Falsely-accused innocent defendants would flock to a man with his track record. Once the facts of the case came out publicly, there's no reason his reputation would have suffered.

** Well, in Franziska's case, she's a prosecutor. ''Ace Attorney'' court favors prosecutors to such a ridiculous extent that nobody probably cares if they bring dangerous things in. As for Marshall and anyone else... Well, consider how a lot of other dangerous things have happened in the courthouse ([[spoiler:Diego's poisoning, Terry's suicide, etc.]]) and it's quite likely that the courthouse has crappy security anyway.

** But [[spoiler: Maggey Byrde]] was in jail for over a month and still in her waitress outfit, which was a new sprite specifically designed for her appearance in the game rather than a reuse.

*** As for why [[spoiler:Maggey]] is still wearing her waitress outfit in detention, the game over dialogue (when your client gets a guilty verdict) states that the guilty party is supposed to be held trial at a higher court a month from the date the verdict was handed down. [[spoiler:Maggey]] was probably still in detention because she was awaiting her next trial.

** Because channelling the dead [[spoiler:Gregory Edgeworth who didn't give accurate information]] was exactly how Misty Fey fell from grace and caused the Fall Of Kurain. Phoenix or Maya wouldn't want to repeat this catastrophe?
*** They wouldn't have to use it in court, they could just use it to get a hint as to the real killer's identity. Still, I'll admit there are a lot of times when the victim didn't see the killer, it would allow Phoenix to have a more believable reason for his wild accusations such as [[spoiler: Luke Atmey, Godot, Damon Gant, etc]]

*** Mia is also aware of her families ability and wants to get channeled. There's a good chance it doesn't have to do with the blood as much as it has to do with the spirits willingness to cooperate. If you think about it, the only person we see get channeled other than Mia is [[spoiler: Dahlia]] in case 3-5, and she knew there was a plan and looking for a channeler to summon her that night too.

** If you want a theory that has no direct evidence for it in the games and seems sort of unlikely but is fully consistent with the games – Maya could have sued [[spoiler:Redd White]]. The plaintiff's attorney usually gets about 30% of the settlement, while the referring attorney who directs the plaintiff to the lawyer who represents her gets about 5%. Given that Maya could have conceivably gotten millions from [[spoiler:White]], either percentage would be a tidy sum.

* Sure, [[spoiler:Matt Engarde]] was a special case where it didn't work. But why doesn't Phoenix in the second and third game just whip out his magatama at every suspect and ask them if they committed the crime? If Psyche-Locks showed up when they said no, he'd know to look harder at that person and find all the evidence that they did it.

** What bothers me about the Magatama is why Phoenix, all the way up to the last case of game three, [[spoiler:keeps assuming that someone is telling the truth just because of lack of locks when he's met Matt (who avoided being found out through a wording snag) and Atmey (who was able to outright lie to the thing).]]

*** Phoenix never acknowledges realizing that [[spoiler:Luke Atmey]] basically tricked the Magatama in the third game.

** The magatama doesn't detect "lies," per se. It detects when the target of the magatama is trying to hide something. [[spoiler:Matt Engarde is able to sidestep its effects because he doesn't need to hide the fact that he killed anyone, because "he" didn't kill anyone. It's when Phoenix tries to push him about "the secret" Juan Corrida had on him that the psyche-locks show up.]]

* In the "Turnabout Big Top" episode of ''Justice For All'', both Phoenix and Franziska say that [[spoiler:Edgeworth never went to another case as prosecutor after "Turnabout Goodbyes" in the first game]]. However, how is that possible when the credits that roll directly after Turnabout Goodbyes show [[spoiler:at least one instance where Edgeworth is again arguing with Phoenix in court]]? Something just doesn't add up here.

*** Okay, I checked the exact line. [[spoiler:Phoenix's EXACT line is the following: "But after "that" case was over... He "vanished"..." A short time later, he says "After that case, Edgeworth was in a peculiar state, and he got worse everyday. He never set foot into court again... And then one day, he just vanished." Note that at no time does Phoenix actually say the case IS "Turnabout Goodbyes". You did see a picture from that case when Phoenix thinks "But after "that case was over..." But I do not believe that at any time they specifically said which case they were referring to.]] The picture shown makes you think of "Turnabout Goodbyes" but I do not believe the dialogue ever stated it was that case. Back in the GBA version, they were referring to the case with Manfred, but in the DS version, with "Rise from the Ashes", it's clear they were referring to "Rise from the Ashes". Bottom line: The picture shown is retroactively incorrect, but the dialogue never contradicts "Rise from the Ashes".\\

** It doesn't seem like what Phoenix thinks about Edgeworth in ''Justice For All'' makes sense either way. Phoenix finds out in the first game that [[spoiler:Edgeworth became a prosecutor and was so aggressive in getting convictions is because Von Karma murdered his dad and manipulated him. He's already clearly turning a new leaf even before then since he raised an objection to keep the Steel Samurai case going and find the real criminal.]] It makes even less sense if you take the "Rise From The Ashes" case as canon, since it reveals [[spoiler:Edgeworth wasn't responsible for any forged evidence.]]
*** First of all, Phoenix is undoubtedly upset with Edgeworth for [[spoiler:writing such a misleading and depressing note.]] Second, Phoenix misinterpreted the reason for Edgeworth's depression (thinking that it was because his perfect win record was tarnished). Third, even if he never [[spoiler:forged evidence]], Edgeworth hid things from the court and was practically helping the culprit in case 1-2. In ''Trials and Tribulations'', you learn that [[spoiler:Edgeworth also hid things from the court in case 3-4]].

* Prior to ''Apollo Justice'', Phoenix really must have been the luckiest attorney around. Isn't it a bit distressing that his clients would have been found guilty if not for the fact that the contradictions were clearly visible? For example, in the second game's first case, Phoenix initially proves that the victim didn't write the killer's name with his right hand by showing evidence that he was left-handed. So, if the victim actually had been right-handed, the defendant would have been found guilty? Or if he hadn't received a glove? (It gets worse in the fourth case. [[spoiler:Maya would have died if a)Adrian hadn't set a glass down on the dresser, or b)She had been as tall as Matt.]])

* In 2-4 and especially in 3-5, Phoenix and other characters spend a lot of time worrying about [[spoiler:whether Maya is dead]], and in the Bad Ending of 2-4 Phoenix seems to be slightly uncertain [[spoiler:whether she was really released alive or not]]. Surely there would be a really, really easy way to tell if this was the case? [[spoiler:"Hey Pearl, could you channel Maya for us? You can't? Okay, still alive!"]]
** [[spoiler:For most of 2-4 they weren't worried that Maya would be dead, just in danger, as De Killer was keeping his word, and for most of 3-5 Pearls was unavailable, and when they found her she thought that her powers had disappeared when she couldn't summon Dahlia. Besides, Phoenix wouldn't let her do something like that because suddenly discovering that Maya was indeed dead would surely traumatize her. Even if Pearl wasn't aware of it (due to how spirit channelling works), Phoenix would most definitely be traumatized.]]
*** [[spoiler:There's still the 'I never saw Maya again' stuff in the Bad Ending, though? I mean, in a situation like that, surely Pearl would rather know one way or the other, even though it'd suck.]]
*** [[spoiler: I've always assumed in the Bad Ending that it was ''Phoenix'' that never saw Maya again, not so much the world itself. That is, Matt was found Not Guilty, Maya is released, but is so disappointed in Phoenix for allowing Matt to go free that she cuts off all contact. Presumably, this includes Pearl as well since Pearl is more loyal to Maya than Phoenix. One presumes Phoenix could just go to Kurain Village to say hi, but maybe he knows that she wouldn't see him.]]
*** [[spoiler:More likely, Phoenix was too ashamed after the trial to ever see Maya again. He ran out of the courtroom after the verdict was handed down, remember?]]
** In case 3-5, Pearl thought that [[spoiler:she had lost her power as a channeler.]] Phoenix could test that by [[spoiler:asking Pearl to channel Misty once he found out who the victim was, but that would require admitting to Pearl that Misty was dead.]]

*** HOLD IT! ''You're'' wrong. What Cody said was that the "person" in the Pink Princess suit was incredibly ugly. Remember, he never saw Will Powers [[spoiler:(or Jack Hammer)]] take off the Steel Samurai suit, so never associated the him with the character. It's only natural he'd expect a girl to be inside the Pink Princess uniform, so when he saw Will take off the suit, he just assumed Will was an extremely ugly woman.

** I'm pretty sure she did it privately, not in court. So while the cops who asked her may believe her, the public doesn't and they probably can't say so without losing their jobs. The real question is why it took a psychic to tell them that the one person in the room who was armed and not a ten-year old did it..., or why his being 'crazy' at the time caused her to be seen as wrong. They didn't ask why he got shot, just who shot him. [[spoiler:Even if he was wrong...]] I think it's mainly just so Phoenix can't just have Maya/Pearl summon the victim and have them tell what happened.

*** And what about [[spoiler:Maya channeling Dahlia]] in 3-5? Presumably not EVERYONE had a connection to the one being channeled…

As for actual people noticing Maya and/or Pearl changing, '''Examples''': Phoenix recognized Mia's voice and tone of speaking, so he saw her; Franziska was looking for the physical signs, so she saw it; the camera takes a picture of ''what's there'', not what it 'expects' to see; and when [[spoiler:Maya is on the stand channelling Dahlia, therefore looking like Dahlia's twin sister Iris]], everyone expects to see Iris, so that's what they see. It would also explain why Edgeworth is so adamant that the technique is fake – [[FridgeBrilliance after all, if he doesn't believe in it, it's not real]]. As for the rest of the court, even after Franziska explains the technique, it probably still doesn't click with them.

* Why do the killers happen to involve themselves with the case when the prime suspect is someone else? For example, in game 2 case 2, [[spoiler:Ini Miney]] could have just not said anything at all. Her testimony was used to throw even more suspicion on Maya, but if she had kept her mouth shut, no one would have ever suspected that she was involved in any way. But for some reason, she just had to be a witness and provide testimony, and that's what made her plans fall apart. A similar thing happens in game 2 case 1. The real murderer was, as far as everyone was concerned, just a random passerby. He could've just recovered the phone and skedaddled, with nothing linking him to crime at all. IdiotBall indeed.
** '''''[[red:OBJECTION!]]''''' In 2-1, it's revealed that, thanks to his involvement in a ring of con artists, [[spoiler:Richard Wellington]] had pretty much lost his ability to make rational judgements due to paranoia. The fact that Dustin Prince was still in his police uniform when he arrived did not ease matters much for him. And he couldn't have grabbed his phone after the accident because he didn't know where it was, and since his glasses were currently underneath Dustin Prince's body, he couldn't see well enough to look for it.
** And as for [[spoiler:Ini/Mimi Miney]], because she didn't want anyone to discover that [[spoiler:she was actually still alive]], she actually had decent reason to stick around and give testimony. [[spoiler:The main reason she cooperated with Morgan was so that her secret wouldn't come out, so of course she'd make sure that Maya gets declared guilty.]]

** Also, during case 1-2, wasn't it mentioned towards the end of the second investigation, [[spoiler:in Mia's notes on her investigation on the DL-6 case]], that Mia has ESP? That explains her, and it's probable that the rest of the Feys have ESP too as part of their spirit powers.

* I know it's like their religion or whatever, but... how much of what the Feys believe is actually true? Clearly, spirit channelling is real in the AA universe, but some of the other things they believe in don't seem to hold up. A blatant example would be how in the final case of the third game, they go on and on about the importance of the [[spoiler:demon warding hoods]]. Those don't seem to work at all, considering that they're supposed to [[spoiler:"protect against evil spirits"]], but in fact [[spoiler:an "evil spirit" wore one (or so she and Godot said)]]! The charms written on the walls of the Main Hall didn't seem to help much in preventing tragedy either. Phoenix's opinion that the "special training course" in that case is a scam doesn't exactly seem to be disproven either. "A block of 'spirit ice?'" Chanting the same "spell" 30,000 times? No one ever casts a spell in the games (aside from Pearl enchanting the magatama), and all the magicians in the series are illusionists. Another example relates to the urn that was first introduced in the second game and also makes its appearance in the third game. This urn is supposed to contain the spirit of Ami Fey. Pearl believes that [[spoiler:breaking the urn]] would cause the spirit to leave, something that I'm assuming represents an actual Fey clan belief. Yet no one seems to notice the difference, even when Pearl [[spoiler:has its legitimacy checked at the village]] in the third game.

* What exactly are spirits capable of seeing when they ''aren't'' being channelled? Mia, even when she's not being channelled, seems to have the ability to see what Maya sees in case 1-2. Sure, there are plenty of reasons for Mia to know a lot about that case, but how did she know without being told that Redd White had said that he saw the lamp stand? Unless she heard Maya tell Phoenix about Fey spirit mediums, why did Mia act like Phoenix should already know about her family's spirit powers when Phoenix said Mia never told him? Lotta even takes a photo in that game showing Mia's ghost, implying that a spirit can have a location in the physical world when not being channelled. If that's the case, why does Mia have to wait for Maya to channel her in the second game [[spoiler:when they're trying to figure out where Shelley De Killer took her]]? Furthermore, in the third game, why can't [[spoiler:Dahlia spy on people in case 3-5 before she's channelled to figure out where they are?]]

** The only example of that I can think of is 1-4, in which [[spoiler:the fingerprints on the gun are from the defendant's RIGHT hand, while Lotta's picture clearly shows the shooter using their LEFT hand. Though the prosecution then points out that the defendant could simply have wiped the prints off and then picked up the gun again with his other hand (stupid, but possible).]]

*** And then there's the fact that Phoenix found out at the end of 1-4 that [[spoiler:Larry was actually the one who stole Edgeworth's lunch money that led to the class trial]]. Phoenix was so strongly affected by that incident that he derailed his whole life to become a defense attorney the moment he found out Edgeworth became a "demon prosecutor"! While Phoenix doesn't completely end his friendship with Larry, his subsequent reaction does suggest some deep-seated sore feelings and a small grudge.
* I was wondering this for a while: Phoenix won a "Not Guilty" verdict for [[spoiler:Edgeworth ''twice'', once for the murder of Hammond, and once for the murder of Gregory Edgeworth. Plus, he won a "Not Guilty" verdict for Delite ''twice'', once for being Mask☆[=DeMasque=], and once for the murder of Kane Bullard. So, all in all, this means that Phoenix has been in 6 (State v. Butz, Fey, Powers, Edgeworth*2, Skye) + 4 (State v. Byrde, Fey, Galactica/Johns, Engarde) + 4 (State v. Delite*2, Byrde, Iris) = 14 known trials, not the commonly assumed 12 trials, right? And he's only lost one, and that one he intentionally lost.]]

* I know Phoenix isn't the nicest guy in the game, and I know Gumshoe can annoy him somewhat, but what was his problem during Gumshoe's introduction in ''Trials & Tribulations''? In 2-4, [[spoiler: Gumshoe was a big help in gathering evidence to help find Maya]]. How does Phoenix introduce him in 3-2? "Oh no! Not him again!" What the hell?

** This bugs me too. Gumshoe ''constantly'' proves himself to be a remarkable asset, whether it's providing useful exposition on the case and suspects, providing evidence, providing information regarding the evidence, etc. On two separate occasions, he risks life and limb to save Phoenix and Maya from mobsters, allowing them to escape with vital evidence. He supplies tools like the metal detector that [[spoiler: was ultimately Von Karma's undoing]]. He even risks (and loses) his badge to get Phoenix the evidence that ultimately puts away [[spoiler: Damon Gant]]. Gumshoe is an extremely valuable asset, without whom Phoenix would not have been able to win a ''lot'' of his cases, and yet everyone in the game, Phoenix included, treats Gumshoe as a worthless joke who can't do anything right. What the hell?
*** Valuable != competent or a joy to work with. If Phoenix was really hard up for clues and Gumshoe's on the scene, Fuck Yeah! I know that guy! Let's go pester him until he spills confidential info! But, just showing up in his day-to-day life, maybe he's not the most enjoyable or useful person on Earth. Just like how Phoenix still thinks of Larry as a friend through the end of game 3, but we all totally get why he's not a welcome surprise when [[spoiler:we see him at the temple]].

* Why were Hammer and Powers doing their rehearsals with ''real lethal implements''? You'd think [[spoiler: Hammer and Vasquez of all people would've been wary of doing such a thing, considering that Jack had already killed someone during filming.]]

** Yeah, Miles Edgeworth probably wouldn't be sent to jail, but the fact of the matter is that knowing that he was the one who killed his father, even if it was just an accident, would completely ruin his life, possibly to the point of suicide. Think about how badly [[spoiler:Athena Cykes]] freaked out in ''Dual Destinies'' when she believed that she had killed her own parent. THAT is what the revenge was about, not jail time.

*** [[spoiler:It was told that when Misty summoned Gregory Edgeworth, his ghost told everyone that Yanni Yogi killed him, but we later find out that the ghost lied because he ''thought'' that Miles Edgeworth, his own son, killed him because that was the last person he saw when the gun went off. Gregory had no idea that Manfred Von Karma killed him, since he was unconscious when Manfred entered the elevator and pulled the trigger.]]
*** [[spoiler:There would likely have been at least two sets of prints on the gun, too – Yanni's and Miles's. Von Karma wore gloves, but didn't wipe it.]]

** I believe lighting isn't relevant; he just didn't know the other possibilities. Yogi went rather violent on him, probably slamming him against the elevator wall hard enough to make him faint (remember his dead pose? And that air was already rather scarce?). Then, Gregory could have believed he was killed immediately after with the gun by Yogi. He didn't testify to hearing a shot nor hearing [[spoiler:von Karma's demonic yell]]. The reason he said "Yanni Yogi shot me" would be, then, that he fainted while struggling with the man.

* So apparently manslaughter and murder are charged similarly in the world of Ace Attorney. Edgeworth was nearly convicted of his father's murder when he (at the time a terrified child) threw a gun in his father's vague direction. If this is the case why wasn't he tried for assault with a deadly weapon for [[spoiler:the bullet hitting von Karma?]] That was an accident too.

*** It would still need to be close enough to a floor in order for [[spoiler:a bullet to pass through the glass and hit Manfred von Karma in the shoulder]], not to mention [[spoiler:von Karma]] mentions the elevator doors opened just after the power came on. Probably, the elevator was below the floor just enough that there wouldn't be enough of a gap were the doors forced open for anyone to be able to climb out (not above, as that would make it impossible for [[spoiler:a bullet to pass through the glass and not immediately hit the wall]]; considering the glass in the photo, as the elevator rose this would become impossible long before it became impossible for someone to escape the elevator by prying the doors open). ...Actually, if you consider just where the bullet hole in the glass is, the elevator would need to be well below the outside floor level in order for a shot at that sharp of an angle to [[spoiler:hit von Karma's shoulder]].

* From the killer's perspective in 1-4, it makes perfect sense to want to kill Hammond and frame Miles since [[spoiler: the killer has a grudge against Hammond and thinks that Miles once framed him.]] But from [[spoiler:Manfred Von Karma's]] perspective, there was no [[spoiler:grudge against Hammond]], so why not just [[spoiler:tell the killer to kill Miles directly]]? I guess [[spoiler:getting revenge by convincing Miles that he killed his father was more "perfect?"]]
** [[spoiler:Revenge]] is exactly the reason why. It's stated in-game that [[spoiler:Manfred hated Gregory for so much as scratching his reputation]], and also that [[spoiler:his hatred of Gregory was the reason why he raised Miles as a prosecutor]]. Him trying to ruin [[spoiler:Edgeworth]]'s life is really pretty similar to [[spoiler:Dahlia wanting to kill Maya as revenge against Mia in 3-5]] if you [[FridgeHorror think about it long enough]], he [[spoiler:most definitely wanted to make Miles suffer for what Gregory did, and just having Edgey killed instead wouldn't have satisfied him]].
*** Which explains why von Karma doesn't give a damn when Phoenix proves Edgeworth didn't kill Hammond. [[spoiler:His entire plan was that the trial would guilt-trip Edgeworth and basically humiliate and break him.]]

*** In the last case of the second game, at the very end of trial, the judge asks Phoenix how the defense would like to plead. You're given the option to go against your client's initial wishes and choose "Guilty"; however, doing so only causes Phoenix to strongly suggest a guilty plea, considering the circumstances. Likewise, you can plead "Not guilty" and still have it overridden, showing that it is up to the client in the end.* One part that this Troper spent a while on was one part in case 1-5, when [[spoiler:Ema Skye]] is trying to describe what she saw the night Neil Marshall was murdered. The biggest reason is because the game throws a huge RedHerring in the way, as she claims to have witnessed Marshall getting stabbed in the chest, whereas the autopsy report clearly states he was stabbed in the back. Most of the time was spent figuring out how to object to it, including pressing every statement many, many times.

* Case 1-5. One – [[spoiler:I don't get why Gant killed Goodman – I mean, he's the chief, right? Couldn't he just have refused to re-open the case? He has a fair amount of control, and all Goodman wanted to do was re-open the case. There was no new evidence so it was pretty safe. Also, why would he screw up something he's been planning for so long when it wasn't really in danger? He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to suddenly flip out and kill someone like that.]] Two – [[spoiler:You get the picture Ema draws of Neil Marshall and Joe Darke fighting and in it, the vase is flying through the air. We can assume that it smashed when it hit the ground. Gant came in after this, when the vase was smashed so how did he get Ema's name onto it? Did he put it back together, write her name and then smash it again? What was the point?]] I'm not complaining, I just want to know if anyone has any answers.
** One: [[spoiler:Well, Gant admitted that the murder was spur-of-the-moment and that he wasn't thinking clearly. Also, Goodman said right in front of him that he intended to hand the evidence off to Marshall, who was already suspicious of the whole deal. Fearful that his involvement would be exposed, Gant killed him with the switchblade and had Lana clean up his mess.]] Two: [[spoiler:This is a little easier to explain. It's possible that the jar is sturdier than the characters give it credit for, and didn't break when it was knocked off its stand, or at least didn't fully shatter. He could've easily scrawled Ema's name on it and then completely broken the jar by either stomping on it or smashing it with a tool or a heavier object. Considering it ended up in nine ''large'' pieces even after Gant got to it, that unstable jar was probably made of a really sturdy material.]]
** The "bad ending" of 1-5 [[spoiler:(if you present the evidence early)]] irritates me because the contradictions still stand. Even if it proved [[spoiler:Ema killed Neil Marshall (which it doesn't because of the lack of bloodstains), that would actually make Phoenix's case stronger. The handprint and jar are good proof that Gant was blackmailing Lana, and with all that in the open, she would have no reason to keep covering for Gant. The defendant's testimony against the police chief's might not ordinarily carry much weight, but since he had pretty much already been revealed as a blackmailing scumbag, it would give Lana points. Even if Phoenix lost his chance to prove that Gant killed Marshall, in the very least, the fight would continue, not just end all of a sudden. Gant would still have a motive for killing Goodman even if he didn't kill Marshall.]]
*** That's the point of it. [[spoiler:If you do not present the evidence early, Damon Gant forces you to show it anyway, revealing that it was in his safe. Basically, he gives himself away with his AccidentalPublicConfession that he was hiding the strip of leather and the jar fragment in his safe.]]
** I second the original question. [[spoiler:During the original events of SL-9, Gant found a situation with three unconscious people that he couldn't possibly have orchestrated. He decided to use this opportunity to murder one of them, frame Ema for it, let Lana 'discover' the crime, and then help Lana frame Darke for it to get him convicted. This ensured his promotion to Chief of Police, Lana's move to Chief Prosecutor, and let him control the Prosecution division. That's some pretty impressive Chessmastery right there, especially with all the shenanigans he had to pull with the evidence to do all that. Then he spectacularly bungles everything with the murder of Goodman. He kills Goodman in a panic on the day the case was going to be buried for good and then hands off the body for Lana to clean up. Okay, maybe she was the only person he had enough leverage over to be able to order her to cover up his crime, but that still risks his control over the department. From the way Lana acted, it's pretty clear she was trying to be caught, maybe not so much to cover for Gant as so he wouldn't be able to puppet her anymore.]] Also, [[spoiler:''how did anyone know there was a murder in the evidence room''? By the time Meekins and Marshall-impersonating-Goodman show up, he'd already cleaned up the body and the blood! And Meekins was accosted by someone he thought was Goodman, but he was the one who was knocked out, and there was no corpse. So, Meekins turned himself in as a murderer, someone took his claim at face value, and Gant allowed this to be reported? Or Gant reported the murder himself? None of this makes sense! By letting the court know there was a murder in the evidence room at all, he hands Phoenix the means to tie the current case to SL-9 and reopen all the events in SL-9, which was what Gant was trying to avoid in the first place!]]
*** Well, that's exactly the thing: [[spoiler:Gant panicked. He ''wasn't'' thinking clearly. Of course with the way the trial went, blaming Lana led to him being found out, but that was the first / simplest solution that came to his mind.]] As for your second question, [[spoiler:it doesn't really make sense for ''Meekins'' to assume their was a murder, yes. But perhaps when he heard the report, Gant thought he could use it for a little extra misdirection? With the extra confusion it caused, he probably hoped it would take longer for anyone to figure out that it was really him behind everything.]]

* Case 1-5: [[spoiler:When Gant tries to put in a word in his own defense, Edgeworth reminds him that he's already forfeited his right to testify. Then, after Phoenix refuses to present the scrap of cloth, he testifies anyway – and implicates himself through his own testimony. But it isn't legitimate testimony! Even if it acquits Lana, it couldn't be used against Gant himself.]]
** [[spoiler:Gant was too shaken to call Phoenix out on that little loophole. He was barely coherent enough to try to get the evidence invalidated.]]
** I believe he [[spoiler:lost his right to testify as a police chief, but not as a suspect in the murder.]]

* Again from 1-5: When you first speak to Meekins [[spoiler:in the detention center]], he claims (at least twice at various points) that [[spoiler:after the incident in the evidence room he woke up in the Detention Center]]. Yet this is patently false, seeing as we see him between those two times when he shows up at Edgeworth's office - and, in fact, in continued discussions with him, he later indicates that [[spoiler:he woke up in the evidence room immediately after the incident]]. For that matter, he was only [[spoiler:arrested two days following the incident (around the time that Gant first testifies)]] - given that [[spoiler:he was the only other person on hand in the evidence room]], why wasn't he [[spoiler:immediately arrested]]? It seems like there are two inherently contradictory timelines here!
** Meekins was probably just being dramatic when he says [[spoiler:he woke up in the detention center]]. It wouldn't exactly be out of character for him to be exaggerating. And as for why [[spoiler:he wasn't arrested immediately]]... Well, the police department was extremely confused/panicked due to the fact that [[spoiler:the guy he supposedly killed was found in a completely different place at the same time]]. They probably thought it was utterly impossible and were reluctant to arrest anyone else until the whole ID Card thing came up.
* In case 1-5, one thing that always bugged me. Lana comes into the room, sees [[spoiler:Marshall dead]], and her sister and a known serial killer are on the floor unconscious. So, with a known killer in the room, why did she jump to the conclusion that [[spoiler:Ema]] was responsible like she said. You'd think that if you gonna jump to a conclusion it would involve a suspected serial killer over [[spoiler:your beloved sibling]].
** [[spoiler:Damon Gant wrote "Ema" on the urn. It's not 100% clear whether he broke the urn before or after Lana came in.]]
*** [[spoiler:That's wrong. It was clearly stated by Gant that he broke the urn '''before''' Lana arrived at the scene, and hid a piece of the urn, along with the piece of cloth, for ''insurance'', since these two evidences would help to later "prove" that he was not the one who killed Marshall (which almost did do the job). Why didn't he take these evidences '''after''' Lana saw it? Probably because he wasn't 100% certain that Lana would choose to forge evidence to save her sister, so it was wiser to take it '''before'''. Lana also said that had she known that the urn was clearly incriminating Ema, she would have ground it to dust instead of just wiping the blood. But as to the original question - I have no idea.]]

* In case 1-5, I don't understand why [[spoiler: Gant cut the piece of cloth '''before''' he impaled Marshall and left such a huge contradiction in his "evidence". Had he cut the piece of cloth '''after''', then there would have been no problem with his "evidence".]]
** Maybe he thought that [[spoiler:if any blood got on the cloth, it might make it trickier to get a clear fingerprint reading]]... And this may sound picky, but it's also not like he could have predicted [[spoiler:exactly how much blood Marshall would cough up]].

* The early setup of 1-5 seems to imply that the killer wanted to frame Edgeworth (the body is found in his car and Lana stabs it with his knife) It bugs me that unlike most frame-ups, this one never seems to go anywhere. Could it be that Angel Starr, by getting Lana arrested, is a SpannerInTheWorks for [[spoiler:Gant]] by forcing him to sacrifice his control of the prosecutor's office?

** It's also possible that Edgeworth's car was used as another sort of [[spoiler:Gant's]] "insurance". Edgeworth had been on trial for murder just a couple months earlier, and had nasty rumors surrounding him. Tying him to the killing, even without actually framing him, would only further discredit him, especially if he noticed and tried to bring attention to anything "odd" about the case. ([[spoiler:Given that Gant twists things several times during the trial to make Edgeworth look incompetent and/or corrupt, it seems that he really wanted to bring him down.]])
** It's also possible that Lana herself had something to do with it; there's a mention further up this page that the reason Lana let herself be caught might have been so [[spoiler:Gant]] couldn't use her to control the prosecutor's office anymore. Once she was spotted, she knew that she'd be implicated no matter what, so she made the executive decision to take the fall herself and leave Edgeworth out of it entirely in order to destroy [[spoiler:Gant's]] influence and make it harder for him to exert that kind of control again once she was gone. Hence [[spoiler:Gant's frequent attempts to discredit Edgeworth during the trial]]; his original plan had failed, and now he needed another way to get rid of a certain prosecutor who had suddenly decided that he cared more about justice than winning and could be very detrimental to his attempts to reestablish control.

* Was it ever established whether [[spoiler:Damon Gant]] had a motive for [[spoiler:killing Neil Marshall]] other than to create blackmail fodder?

* Something that bothered me since it was brought up is that when we first see Lana, she is wearing her red muffler. Phoenix even flashes back to this. Then we find out that [[spoiler:Lana's muffler is inside the muffler of Edgeworth's car!]] Since Lana has been in the detention center all this time, and no one even knows about the location of the muffler until the middle of the first court case, where the heck did Lana get that muffler from when she and Phoenix met?!?

* Joe Darke's conviction... [[spoiler: doesn't the case carry the implication that Darke may well have been innocent? They claim he was a serial killer, but there was never any evidence (considering the killings were supposed to be spur of the moment, it seems a little odd there wasn't any evidence, it's not like it was planned meticulously to avoid such, but I digress) except for Neil Marshall's death... in which the evidence was forged; Phoenix proves in court that it was actually Marshall who was attacking Darke when Ema intervened.]] It seems like a MiscarriageOfJustice, but nothing ever comes of it, although the unfortunate fact that he's already been executed kinda precludes anything I suppose.
** Joe Darke confessed though, didn't he? [[spoiler:He wasn't just "brought in for questioning", as the final trial implies. I remember Gumshoe stating that Joe Darke turned himself in, and was questioned during this time. But he panicked during the questioning, probably due to suddenly realizing that him confessing was basically suicide or something similiar, and then fled, before the entire confrontation with Marshall happened. Maybe his confession contained details only the killer would know about? It's also possible that, after they "proved" Darke killed Marshall, they used this to go back and prove his connection to the other cases. For example, they might have matched his switch blade knife to the other victim's wounds, now that they had it and knew it was his. Even if the match between Marshall's wound and his knife was forged, it'd reach ridiculous levels to suggest that they also forged the matching wounds on all the other victims too]].
** But the reason [[spoiler:Damon Gant murdered Marshall (besides blackmail) was to incriminate Joe Darke with (falsified) decisive evidence that he committed murder, as he feared the legal system would fail its duty and let a (in his eyes) serial killer walk free. And as far as it's known, he was ''only'' convicted of that murder since there was a witness and a murder weapon to link it back to Darke. The rest of the murders being caused by Darke is conjecture, and it seems like there was no hard evidence linking him to the victims. What we do know is that Joe Darke turned himself in on the murders, but that's it. That's hardly proof that he did them, since false confessions do occur; what's needed is evidence to corroborate his story, which there wasn't.]]

*** There's no doubt the victims existed, otherwise they wouldn't be in the report. That being said, you'd think if it was as simple as matching the weapon to the bodies of the four stabbed victims, then [[spoiler:there likely wouldn't have been any reason to frame Darke for the murder of Marshall beyond Gant purely being driven to boost his career.]] Instead, we're given the implication from other involved parties that [[spoiler:they had no hard evidence to link Darke, despite the fact they had him under interview in the police department while he (somehow) was in possession of the alleged murder weapon that they never bothered confiscating and running tests on. And it's mentioned repeatedly that they only got their (fabricated) conviction ''solely'' through the final murder; indeed, if there was any relevant evidence in-post showing that Darke's switchblade was involved in the second to fifth killings, they certainly didn't show it in the SL-9 Incident files.]]
* Why does Lana refuse to admit [[spoiler:she's being blackmailed by Gant]] even when she shouldn't? 1) Right before the start of the third day, Phoenix talks to Lana. ''Ema is not present'' at the time because she's being retained by the police after infiltrating Gant's office. Lana admits to Phoenix she didn't actually commit the murder, but asks Phoenix not to go any further... without giving him any reason. Lana should know by this point that Phoenix is just not going to stop. Why didn't she realise it would be more convincing to tell Phoenix that, if he kept going further, [[spoiler:it would somehow (either by Phoenix showing it in the trial or Gant uncovering it) end up in Ema being framed for the murder of Marshall?]] 2) During the third day, [[spoiler:Phoenix ends up "proving" that Marshall was killed by Ema]]. Yet, when Lana is asked to testify later, [[spoiler:she's still covering Gant, even though Gant can no longer do anything to her than Phoenix hasn't already done (Ema has already been framed)]].

* Why does everyone entertain the idea that [[spoiler:a 15-year-old girl was able to push a grown man across the room in a single shove?]]

* Who did Cody see "the Steel Samurai" kill? Dee is still alive and Jack was the one doing the killing.

*** There's no doubt the victims existed, otherwise they wouldn't be in the report. That being said, you'd think if it was as simple as matching the weapon to the bodies of the four stabbed victims, then there likely wouldn't have been any reason to frame Darke for the murder of Marshall [[spoiler:beyond Gant purely being driven to boost his career.]] Instead, we're given the implication from other involved parties that they had no hard evidence to link Darke, despite the fact they had him under interview in the police department while he (somehow) was in possession of the alleged murder weapon that they never bothered confiscating and running tests on. And it's mentioned repeatedly that they only got their (fabricated) conviction ''solely'' through the final murder; indeed, if there was any relevant evidence in-post showing that Darke's switchblade was involved in the second to fifth killings, they certainly didn't show it in the SL-9 Incident files.

*** There's no doubt the victims existed, otherwise they wouldn't be in the report. That being said, you'd think if it was as simple as matching the weapon to the bodies of the four stabbed victims, then there likely wouldn't have been any reason to frame Darke for the murder of Marshall beyond Gant purely being driven to boost his career. Instead, we're given the implication from other involved parties that they had no hard evidence to link Darke, despite the fact they had him under interview in the police department while he (somehow) was in possession of the alleged murder weapon that they never bothered confiscating and running tests on. And it's mentioned repeatedly that they only got their (fabricated) conviction ''solely'' through the final murder; indeed, if there was any relevant evidence in-post showing that Darke's switchblade was involved in the second to fifth killings, they certainly didn't show it in the SL-9 Incident files.

*** There's no doubt the victims existed, otherwise they wouldn't be in the report. That being said, you'd think if it was as simple as matching the weapon to the bodies of the four stabbed victims, then there likely wouldn't have been any reason to frame Darke for the murder of Marshall beyond Gant purely being driven to boost his career. Instead, we're given the implication from other involved parties that they had no hard evidence to link Darke, despite the fact they had him under interview in the police department while he (somehow) was in possession of the alleged murder weapon that they never bothered confiscating and running tests on. And it's mentioned repeatedly that they only got their (fabricated) conviction **solely** through the final murder; indeed, if there was any relevant evidence in-post showing that Darke's switchblade was involved in the second to fifth killings, they certainly didn't show it in the SL-9 Incident files.

*** This isn't completely true. Not only is Dark consistently referred to as a serial killer, but there are six victims listed in the SL-9 case files, with no notes that any of their murders were unproven. It's also mentioned that his conviction for the death of Neil Marshall was questionable precisely because his switchblade knife didn't match up perfectly with Neil's stab wound -- implying that they would have been able to match the knife to the wounds of the other victims.

** Uhh, what? The body being warm when Phoenix got there doesn’t mean Mia was still alive. The updated autopsy report only said she ''may have'' lived for a few minutes after being struck, not that she definitely did. That had no relation to the body’s temperature when it was discovered.