History Headscratchers / MiddleEarthShadowOfMordor

* End Game question: [[spoiler:Is Sauron the Black Hand? Our wiki seems convinced he is, yet when you kill him, Celebrimbor says the black hand is now dead, yet Sauron lives... Also, why would the Black Hand cutting his own throat take Celebrimbor from you? Why would Celebrimbor merging with the black hand cause Sauron to appear? Why would Sauron pretend to be his own lackey?]].
** Well, as far as I can tell, in order... [[spoiler:Maybe, maybe not. It's ambiguous. The Black Hand cutting his own throat is repeating the same ritual he used to summon Celebrimbor the first time - maybe the sheer proximity was enough to make it impossible to resist? Celebrimbor merging with the Black Hand would be a bonding of Sauron and Celebrimbor's spirits, and according to a one-off line by Celebrimbor, Sauron could use the power of the Ring ''OR'' the Ring-maker to re-manifest in his physical form. And Sauron being his own lackey is actually a common strategy of very-famous higher ups who want to keep direct tabs on their subordinates without them knowing that he himself is staring right at them. Considering the orcs believe him to be nearly-deific, I'd say he wanted to see how they ''really'' thought of him as well as getting the chance to punish them for their failures himself.]]
** But the Orcs are as afraid of Sauron as they are the Black Hand (And the codex shows that some [[spoiler: know they are the same person.) So becoming the Black Hand to keep tabs on his subbordinates is a terrible idea. It'd work if he turned into a regular orc. Not a guy known to be Sauron's loyal second in command.]] Also, the ritual seen in the opening [[spoiler:Didn't work. We are told Celebrimbor decided to possess Talion. He wasn't compelled or summoned into doing it. It was all him. So why would Sauron doing the same ritual now compel Celebrimbor into a different host?]]
** [[spoiler:Just because Celebrimbor chose to possess Talion doesn't mean he had the option of not possessing anyone at all. The ritual was clearly meant to summon and bind Celebrimbor and it does in fact work. The Black Hand says something along the lines of "come to me, Ring-maker" as he cuts the throats of Talion and his family, expecting to draw Celebrimbor into himself. It seems to me the ritual compelled Celebrimbor to become bound to ''someone'', and while he was unable to resist that he was at least able to choose a different target than Sauron/Black Hand expected. The 'choice' Celebrimbor had was either this random human ranger or being absorbed/enslaved by Sauron. When the Black Hand repeats the ritual at the end of the game, there is no other target for Celebrimbor to go into.]]
** I would assume that [[spoiler:the Black Hand is a human sorcerer who has been possessed by the spirit of Sauron and is being used as his host. Sauron, according to canon, is no longer able to take any form other than the great and terrible Dark Lord. The Black Hand is both a vessel as well as a disguise.]]
** That would make some sense. [[spoiler:Since Celebrimbor mentions that Sauron stuck as an "eye" is what would happen IF Talion won. It makes sense that Sauron could be possessing a dude in the hopes to use Celebrimbor to return to physical form and not become a big flaming eye forever]].

** Maybe it's because of who these particular artifacts belonged to? [[spoiler:Considering Celebrimbor was shown in flashbacks to have succumbed to the Ring, and at the very least heavily implied in the main game and the end of the Bright Lord DLC to still be pretty messed up in the head from it, perhaps his taint extended to his artifacts somehow, thus enabling Gollum to handle them a bit more easily?]]

* First the guy's going "It was [[spoiler:YOUR]] doing! I should have died with my family!" and at the end of the game, "finally, I can die", then when he's finally killed the Black Hand and the Hither Shore starts calling him to finally leave Arda, and yet when all is concluded he... decides to stay on and try to fight Sauron by crafting his own ring of power? Was he possessed or corrupted by Sauron at the end or something?

** There's a simpler explanation; Talion's motivations have changed. At first he's as we heard, that he wants to die, and at first only goes about the business of killing the Black Hand to break the curse. Yet over the course of the game he starts talking about losing sight of his family's memories, along with ''stops'' talking about wanting to join them in death, or break the curse, or any of those things- just going about the business of killing the Black Hand, raising that orc-army, and all the things the Wraith is also fighting to do. And then by the end, he's changed his mind, saying there's more work for them to do, with the Wraith agreeing despite his own potential to rejoin his family at last. The real question is; who's doing was this? Talion's, via free will ''or'' corruption... or [[spoiler:the Wraith, the elf who was corrupted to take the One Ring and use it against Sauron, and aims to finish the job when he's put inside Talion?]] On the surface, it indeed sounds selfless, but the implications aren't in that favor...
** As of the second game, [[spoiler:it certainly seems to be Celebrimbor's influence that turns Talion away from death and towards fighting Sauron. Once they make the new ring, he doesn't even need to be around anymore to drive Talion. He fights Sauron to the point of being corrupted and turned into a Nazgul himself, before finally dying with the destruction of the One Ring.]]

** Still, you'd think that they'd at least get TheCameo or something, like with [[spoiler:Saruman]].

* So the ending states that Talion is making another ring, and thats what SoW is going to be about, but, how does this fit into the timeline? we have established it takes place after the Hobbit but before LoTRs, I mean thats 50 years, and apparently nobody mentioned it, Celebrimbor is in the simalirion, only in passing, this whole Bright Lord v Dark Lord would of been big news, hell apparently Saruman of all people knew of Celebrimbor being around as a wraith. regardless, this is a big thing to go unmentioned (but DoomedByCanon anyway). how will they sort it?

[[folder: On Orc grog]]
* What is Orc grog made of, and how is it super flammable that it can cause fiery explosions?
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[[folder: What measure is a Bruz? (SPOILERS)]]
* For Shadow of War: While the meta reasons are somewhat understandable, needing to teach the player the effects of Shaming an Uruk or Olog, and that under certain circumstances the Uruks the player dominates will betray them, what reason do Talion and Celebrimbor have for denying Bruz the position of Overlord in Nurnen? Sure, he has an argument with Ratbag, but what difference does that make, especially when neither Talion nor Celebrimbor were overly fond of Ratbag in the first place? Furthermore, Bruz hadn’t given either of them any real reason to doubt HIS loyalty, so it seems a little counterintuitive to give the title to any other Uruk or Olog, even if neither Celebrimbor nor Talion value them as anything other than a very expendable means to an end. If anything, wouldn’t letting Bruz have the position serve as an example of how Talion rewards loyalty and give the Uruks and Ologs even more incentive to remain loyal to him?
[[/folder]]