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** Not to mention, it'd go against everything Hiccup and the Berkians have come to believe about dragons, and undermine half a decade's effort to convince other humans that dragons aren't inherently malignant, to start using them so casually as weapons of mass destruction. They want to change the Hunters' minds, not turn them en masse into ashes.
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Might HAVE, not might OF.
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
** Considering that it’s possible for Alphas to fight one another for control of ‘their’ flocks of dragons like they did in [=HTTYD2=], (even if that was forced by Drago), it’s probably possible that the last Alpha before Toothless came and claimed his throne might of had a splinter group of young, hot blooded alpha dragons(I.E. the Red Queen, Bewilderbeasts) take their own out of the world and just stay there. Considering Drago raised his Bewilderbeast from hatchling that means breeding populations outside the hidden world. It probably went something like this: A few hot blooded alpha dragons decided to leave to establish their own ‘hidden worlds’ with their own little flocks. Over time, those small groups grew to enormous sizes until you have things like the Red Queen nest, or Valka’s Sanctuary, finally humans moved into the area and began fighting them once the dragons see an easy source of prey to appease their queen or just to eat good (for those that are not under control of a queen or alpha). Generations pass in human terms until we get the HTTYD series.
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** Considering that it’s possible for Alphas to fight one another for control of ‘their’ flocks of dragons like they did in [=HTTYD2=], (even if that was forced by Drago), it’s probably possible that the last Alpha before Toothless came and claimed his throne might of have had a splinter group of young, hot blooded alpha dragons(I.E. the Red Queen, Bewilderbeasts) take their own out of the world and just stay there. Considering Drago raised his Bewilderbeast from hatchling that means breeding populations outside the hidden world. It probably went something like this: A few hot blooded alpha dragons decided to leave to establish their own ‘hidden worlds’ with their own little flocks. Over time, those small groups grew to enormous sizes until you have things like the Red Queen nest, or Valka’s Sanctuary, finally humans moved into the area and began fighting them once the dragons see an easy source of prey to appease their queen or just to eat good (for those that are not under control of a queen or alpha). Generations pass in human terms until we get the HTTYD series.
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** Who's to say that Light Furies weren't the next ones on his to-be-exterminated list? He may only have gone after the Night variety first because the Light one could more easily be used to bait them than vice versa.
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*** One issue with the idea that the Berkians are going to change perceptions is that within a decade or so of the dragons leaving even the Berkians own children fail to adopt a positive view of dragons until they get to see some themselves. Further, for every enemy Hiccup made in his efforts he seemed to make a lot more friends. The opposition and challenges he faced just didn't seem enough to justify essentially giving up after just six years.
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Gimmel and Light Furies]]
* So Gimmel has made it his life's mission to kill all the Night Furies in the world... But Light Furies, who are essentially the exact same, maybe even more powerful, then Night Furies, those are fine to leave alone unless they're an outright threat. Why? Shouldn't he want all Furies to be dead?
[[folder: Gimmel and Light Furies]]
* So Gimmel has made it his life's mission to kill all the Night Furies in the world... But Light Furies, who are essentially the exact same, maybe even more powerful, then Night Furies, those are fine to leave alone unless they're an outright threat. Why? Shouldn't he want all Furies to be dead?
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: Toothless, and Self Control]]
* So Toothless can fight his instincts about not trusting Humans, and he can fight the literal psychic abilities that certain Alphas have that control lesser dragons... ''But'' the biological need to mate, to the point he will abandon everyone and everything else he has ever loved in his life, ''that's'' the thing he can't fight. He ''has'' to be with the Light Fury, he can't ''fight'' this like he could the ''literal mental manipulations'' of the Red Death and the Bewilderbeast. I understand that procreation is a powerful tool, and Toothless does deserve a mate, but the way Night Furies do it is super extreme, and you'd think Toothless could find a way to not just be hopelessly (for lack of a better term) enslaved to his new love.
[[folder: Toothless, and Self Control]]
* So Toothless can fight his instincts about not trusting Humans, and he can fight the literal psychic abilities that certain Alphas have that control lesser dragons... ''But'' the biological need to mate, to the point he will abandon everyone and everything else he has ever loved in his life, ''that's'' the thing he can't fight. He ''has'' to be with the Light Fury, he can't ''fight'' this like he could the ''literal mental manipulations'' of the Red Death and the Bewilderbeast. I understand that procreation is a powerful tool, and Toothless does deserve a mate, but the way Night Furies do it is super extreme, and you'd think Toothless could find a way to not just be hopelessly (for lack of a better term) enslaved to his new love.
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* If Grimmel knew everything about Night Furies, how come he didn't anticipate Toothless using his cloaking ability?
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* If Grimmel knew everything about Night Furies, how come he didn't anticipate Toothless using his cloaking ability?ability? And where did he get the idea that Night Furies don't like the cold when all previous moments of Toothless (both in the moves and tv series) in snowy/icy weather showed him with no ill effects?
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What's the point trying to be made in the subpoint of 'Giving Upon Living in the Hidden World'?
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** Drago is no longer a factor, referenced as having been "defeated." Regardless of how it happened, his Bewilderbeast was allowed freedom and ended up finding its way to the hidden world.
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** Drago is no longer a factor, referenced as having been "defeated." Regardless of how it happened, his Bewilderbeast was allowed freedom and ended up finding its way to the hidden world.Hidden World.
Changed line(s) 16,17 (click to see context) from:
** Hiccup has spent years fighting both evil men and dragons and tried to convince others to accept his beliefs in peace. Just when he thought he succeeds, another fight commenced. He did hoped to move his people to the Hidden World but that plan changed when he witnessed the dragons living there tried to kill them. After remembering his father as a child, Hiccup reached an epiphany that there is just too much animosity between humans and dragons to obtain true peace and he cannot drag his people, the dragons and the Hidden World into more conflict. So, Hiccup made the wise decision to let Toothless and the dragons go back to the Hidden World because without the dragons, there won't be anymore hunts. The Berkians stay on the surface to help humanity heal from their past wounds and changed their perception on dragons while Berk's dragons do the same.
** Hiccup has spent ''six'' years trying to convince others to accept his beliefs. Despite that being no time at all, he's succeeding, with a giant flock behind him and Grimmel deeply concerned that his ideas are spreading. Despite making more progress in that short amount of time than many movements make in a lifetime, Hiccup and Toothless give up on their plan entirely and send the dragons away until...well, it's never indicated, but they're certainly not going to get there anytime soon, given that humankind writes the dragons off as folktales, Berk's dragons go wild and forget their time in Berk, and any hope of changing minds effectively gets pitched into the toilet.
** Hiccup has spent ''six'' years trying to convince others to accept his beliefs. Despite that being no time at all, he's succeeding, with a giant flock behind him and Grimmel deeply concerned that his ideas are spreading. Despite making more progress in that short amount of time than many movements make in a lifetime, Hiccup and Toothless give up on their plan entirely and send the dragons away until...well, it's never indicated, but they're certainly not going to get there anytime soon, given that humankind writes the dragons off as folktales, Berk's dragons go wild and forget their time in Berk, and any hope of changing minds effectively gets pitched into the toilet.
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** Hiccup has spent years fighting both evil men and dragons and tried to convince others to accept his beliefs in peace. Just when he thought he succeeds, another fight commenced. He did hoped to move his people to the Hidden World but that plan changed when he witnessed the dragons living there tried to kill them. After remembering what his father had said to him as a child, Hiccup reached an epiphany that there is just too much animosity between humans and dragons to obtain true peace and he cannot drag his people, the dragons and the Hidden World into more conflict. So, Hiccup made the wise decision to let Toothless and the dragons go back to the Hidden World because without the dragons, there won't be anymore hunts. The Berkians stay on the surface to help humanity heal from their past wounds and changed change their perception on dragons while Berk's dragons do the same.
** Hiccup has spent ''six'' years trying to convince others to accept his beliefs. Despite that being no time at all, he's succeeding, with a giant flock behind him and Grimmel deeply concerned that his ideas are spreading. Despite making more progress in that short amount of time than many movements make in a lifetime, Hiccup and Toothless give up on their plan entirely and send the dragons away until...well, it's never indicated, but they're certainly not going to get there anytime soon, given that humankind writes the dragons off as folktales, Berk's dragons go wild and forget their time in Berk, and any hope of changing minds effectively gets pitched into the toilet.same.
** Hiccup has spent ''six'' years trying to convince others to accept his beliefs. Despite that being no time at all, he's succeeding, with a giant flock behind him and Grimmel deeply concerned that his ideas are spreading. Despite making more progress in that short amount of time than many movements make in a lifetime, Hiccup and Toothless give up on their plan entirely and send the dragons away until...well, it's never indicated, but they're certainly not going to get there anytime soon, given that humankind writes the dragons off as folktales, Berk's dragons go wild and forget their time in Berk, and any hope of changing minds effectively gets pitched into the toilet.
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* The people of Berk love their dragons, and the dragons love them back. So why the heck do all the dragons leave at the end of the movie? Supposedly it's because they'll be safer in the Hidden World, but they're perfectly safe in New Berk (or even Old Berk). They've defeated every villain who ever attacked them, with no casualties at all aside from Stoic and Hiccup's Foot. At the end of the movie Gimmel and the armada have just been defeated, and there's no indication that they'll ever face a stronger foe. And even if the dragons just really enjoy the Hidden World, why not commute back and forth? Why can't Toothless drop by in New Berk once a week to hang out with Hiccup, instead of staying away for what appears to be ''eight years''?
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* The people of Berk love their dragons, and the dragons love them back. So why the heck do all the dragons leave at the end of the movie? Supposedly it's because they'll be safer in the Hidden World, but they're perfectly safe in New Berk (or even Old Berk). They've defeated every villain who ever attacked them, with no casualties at all aside from Stoic Stoick and Hiccup's Foot.foot. At the end of the movie Gimmel and the armada have just been defeated, and there's no indication that they'll ever face a stronger foe. And even if the dragons just really enjoy the Hidden World, why not commute back and forth? Why can't Toothless drop by in New Berk once a week to hang out with Hiccup, instead of staying away for what appears to be ''eight years''?
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** This can be DecapitatedArmy issue. Tothless on his own seem to pay rather small attention to his subjects: remember how he did nothing to stop goregutter from wreaking havoc and possibly wounding someone until Hiccup asked for it, and not to mention the ease with what he abandoned his flock and later traded them for just a promise to not kill his mate. Also Grimmel had stated openly that he was going StraightForTheCommander by throwing IdiotBall to both Toothless and Hiccup with [[DistractedByTheSexy light fury]] and [[HannibalLecture speech]] respectively.
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** This can be DecapitatedArmy issue. Tothless on his own seem to pay rather small attention to his subjects: remember how he did nothing to stop goregutter from wreaking havoc and possibly wounding someone until Hiccup asked for it, and not to mention the ease with what he abandoned his flock and later traded them for just a promise to not kill his mate. Also Grimmel had stated openly that he was going StraightForTheCommander by throwing the IdiotBall to both Toothless and Hiccup with [[DistractedByTheSexy light fury]] and [[HannibalLecture speech]] respectively.
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Changed line(s) 55,56 (click to see context) from:
* Hiccup is looking for the Hidden World. Toothless is getting to know a Light Fury. It turns out that the Light Fury leads Toothless directly to the Hidden World. What a coincidence! (At first I thought this was part of Gimmel's plan somehow, but it turns out Gimmel had no particular interest in the Hidden World and it's possible he had no real idea where it was.)
** The Light Fury was probably ''born'' in the Hidden World. We know there's a breeding population of her species there - we see adults with their babies among the crowds of dragons there - and don't know of any in the surface world, so Occam's Razor would conclude that's where she came from. Why would it be a surprise that she'd know how to get home?
** The Light Fury was probably ''born'' in the Hidden World. We know there's a breeding population of her species there - we see adults with their babies among the crowds of dragons there - and don't know of any in the surface world, so Occam's Razor would conclude that's where she came from. Why would it be a surprise that she'd know how to get home?
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* Hiccup is looking for the Hidden World. Toothless is getting to know a Light Fury. It turns out that the Light Fury leads Toothless directly to the Hidden World. What a coincidence! (At first I thought this was part of Gimmel's plan somehow, but it turns out Gimmel had no particular interest in the Hidden World and it's possible he had no real idea where it was.)
**The Light Fury was probably ''born'' in the Hidden World. We know there's a breeding population of her species there - we see adults with their babies among the crowds of dragons there - and don't know of any in the surface world, so Occam's Razor OccamsRazor would conclude that's where she came from. Why would it be a surprise that she'd know how to get home?
**
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* The hidden world is said to be the perfect home for all dragons, so why did dragons leave it in the first place? Did the Red Queen force some to follow her?
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* The hidden world is said to be the perfect home for all dragons, so why did dragons leave it in the first place? Did the Red Queen Death force some to follow her?
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** Also its a pretty normal thing for populations to move on as they grow and search for new opportunities. The Hidden World is where Dragon originated, just as humans originated in a corner of Africa, and over thousands of years spread to many parts of the world. The Hidden World may be perfect for dragons, but its still small compared to the rest of the world and the endless opportunities it held. Its just that over time humans became the dominant species on the planet's surface, slowly pushing dragons outside the Hidden World to extinction.
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** Also its a pretty normal thing for populations to move on as they grow and search for new opportunities. The Hidden World is where Dragon dragons originated, just as humans originated in a corner of Africa, and over thousands of years spread to many parts of the world. The Hidden World may be perfect for dragons, but its still small compared to the rest of the world and the endless opportunities it held. Its just that over time humans became the dominant species on the planet's surface, slowly pushing dragons outside the Hidden World to extinction.
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*** The whole Wingmaiden situation was never really explained in a satisfactory way to begin with. Like how had the razorwhips survived without the Wingmaidens for presumably hundreds or thousands of years? Why would any animal develop in such a self destructive way? Yes many male animals (and sometimes females) will kill their own young for various reasons, but not to the point that they literally drive themselves to extinction, at most it serves as a way to keep their species from becoming too numerous/remove competition. Perhaps the razorwhips had been imperiled by some unrelated disaster/hunting that caused their population to crash to the point that the behavior of the males became such an issue. Regardless, Toothless and other helpful dragons (we've seen quite a few kinds that will defend young dragons) can doubtless fill the void left by the wingmaidens.
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*** The whole Wingmaiden situation was never really explained in a satisfactory way to begin with. Like how had the razorwhips Razorwhips survived without the Wingmaidens for presumably hundreds or thousands of years? Why would any animal develop in such a self destructive way? Yes many male animals (and sometimes females) will kill their own young for various reasons, but not to the point that they literally drive themselves to extinction, at most it serves as a way to keep their species from becoming too numerous/remove competition. Perhaps the razorwhips had been imperiled by some unrelated disaster/hunting that caused their population to crash to the point that the behavior of the males became such an issue. Regardless, Toothless and other helpful dragons (we've seen quite a few kinds that will defend young dragons) can doubtless fill the void left by the wingmaidens.
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[[folder: The Light Fury coincidentally knows the way]]
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[[folder: The Light Fury coincidentally knows the way]]way?]]
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*** [[FridgeHorror So the Hidden World will just grow overpopulated again]] and [[SadisticChoice either way it was all for nothing?]] Especially if, as we know from the RealLife, at this time with no more significant resistance humanity will become even more [[HumansAreTheRealFlawed arrogant, selfish and confident in its dominance]], also completely forgetting everything that Berkians had learned (see Giving Up on Living in the Hidden World below). Not to mention the progress.
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*** [[FridgeHorror So the Hidden World will just grow overpopulated again]] and [[SadisticChoice either way it was all for nothing?]] Especially if, as we know from the RealLife, at this time with no more significant resistance humanity will become even more [[HumansAreTheRealFlawed [[HumansAreFlawed arrogant, selfish and confident in its dominance]], also completely forgetting everything that Berkians had learned (see Giving Up on Living in the Hidden World below). Not to mention the progress.
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*** [[FridgeHorror So the Hidden World will just grow overpopulated again]] and [[SadisticChoice either way it was all for nothing?]] Especially if, as we know from the RealLife, at this time with no more significant resistance humanity will become even more [[HumansAreTheRealFlawed arrogant, selfish and confident in its dominance]], also completely forgetting everything that Berkians had learned (see Giving Up on Living in the Hidden World below). Not to mention the progress.
