History Headscratchers / HarryPotterAndThePrisonerOfAzkaban

** Hermione's reasons are not in question - but the way she went about it. It's Harry's property, Harry's wellbeing and Harry's safety that's being discussed here - and Hermione does not give Harry the courtesy of hearing her suspicions. She actively goes behind his back and tries to hide behind the moral high ground when she's called out on it. Yes she had legitimate concerns, but there was nothing stopping her from discussing them with her friends.

[[folder: Boggart and it's threat]]

** Isn't it established by this point already that Harry can't be harmed by Voldemort or any Death Eater (including Malfoy) due to the magical blood protection that his mother's sacrifice gave him as far as he formally lives with his aunt? Because if that's the case, then Harry is not so stupid after all, he has no reason to worry about the broom being cursed by Voldemort or Malfoy, and no one else hates him so much as to expend money to harm him.

** Isn't established to this point already that Harry can't be harmed by Voldemort or any Death Eater (including Malfoy) due to the magical blood protection that his mother's sacrifice give to him as far as he formally lives with his aunt? because if that's the case then Harry is not so stupid after all, he has no reason to worry for the broom to be cursed by Voldemort or Malfoy and no one else hate him so much as to expend money to harm him.

** Isn't established to this point already that Harry can't be harm by Voldemort or any Death Eater (including Malfoy) due to the magical blood protection that his mother's sacrifice give to him as far as he formally lives with his aunt? because if that's the case then Harry is not so stupid after all, he has no reason to worry for the broom to be cursed by Voldemort or Malfoy and no one else hate him so much as to expend money to harm him.

### Ron and Harry wonder where it came from and that Malfoy will "sick as a pig" when he sees it.
### Hermione comes in and sees the firebolt. Is told it didn't come with a card.

### Lunch
### Ron and Harry leaves, Hermione says she wants a quick word with [=McGonagall=]
### Harry gets the firebolt, he and Ron admire it until Hermione and [=McGonagall=] come in.

### Hermione ''finally'' shares her suspicions: "that broom was probably sent to Harry by Sirius Black"

** But she wasn't an adult, she was at Harrys age and one of his two closest friends. She could at least had tried to talk with him but she didn't, if she tried, Harry would most likely at least listen to her before acting.
** Yes, he would listen. But I want you to (metaphorically) look me in the eye and tell me you honestly believe he would've likely agreed with her, and if he hadn't and she'd announced her decision to tell [=McGonagall=], then he would've absolutely certainly NOT taken the broom for a ride before it can be tested.

* She had all reasons to expect him to blow her off. After all, he ''didn't'' find an insanely expensive anonymous gift suspicious. And later his main concern was that the stupid women were going to ruin his cool new broom that he "was sure was fine" when he "understood that Sirius Black couldn't have sent him the broom, but she [Prof. [=McGonagall=]] didn't". He's an idiot. So what was Hermie supposed to do after he blows her off? Run off to find [=McGonagall=] while praying that Harry manages to scrap together those two braincells of his and restrain from immediately taking the broom for a ride just to "prove" that it's fine, or to have one last ride before it's taken away? Even if he wouldn't have got this idea, I bet you anything Ron would've suggested it. So Hermie did what's right and not what's "cool".

People act like Harry had no reason to be upset with Hermione for the Firebolt incident. But while he took it too far, he did have a reason. Hermione didn't bother trying to explain why she was concerned. She simply screeched that she didn't think anyone should trying flying it. Her next move was to tell [=McGonagall=]. At no point did she tell Harry her fears it had been sent by a Mass Murderer. She acted like Harry was too thick and worthless to bother explaining things to and that she was superior and knew best. If she had explained herself and the boys still wanted to ride it, then she would have been justified.

The puzzling thing is that Hermione knows Harry hates people hiding things from him and prefers to be told what's going on. So why did she go behind his back ''before'' she told him that she thought Sirius sent it to him? Surely she knew he would hate that she did that without talking to him first?

** Why not teleport him into the wilderness? Lets see, confine him in the Shrieking Shack where he'll be confined, but tear the place/himself up, or send him into the wilderness where there's no guarantee that there are no hikers, rangers, or people of any sort living/staying nearby for him to kill and eat?

** Lupin didn't want his condition to interfere too much with his life at school - being evacuated to the Shrieking Shack with the coming of each full moon seemed to serve him well enough, he couldn't Apparate both until he came of age ''and'' learned how to, and Portkeys are monitored by the Ministry. All in all, being taken into a safehouse that was on school grounds was just the safest, most hassle-free option

* In his backstory he went to the shrieking shack on full moon nights and gave it its name. But if he only turns into a wolf at night, why not just stay away from it during full moons? Wizards seem to have multiple methods of instant transportation. Is it so hard to transport a long distance that the shrieking shack is a better option?
** Lupin didn't want his condition to interfere too much with his life at school - being evacuated to the Shrieking Shack with the coming of each full moon seemed to serve him well enough, he couldn't Apparate both until he came of age ''and'' learned how to, and Portkeys are monitered by the Ministry. All in all, being taken into a safehouse that was on school grounds was just the safest, most hassle-free option

** Awesome. In that case changing the Secret Keeper makes no sense at all. If Sirius kept the role and was willing to die in it, Potter's would've been safe, but all that switching to Peter did was bring him under the strike, since, I presume, V could've still tortured Peter's name out of Sirius. Also, as usual, Rowling sets the rules without giving a bit of thought over how easily they can be bypassed. "Ok, Black, I will not torture you. Instead we'll see how many of these precious Muggle children right here will it take for me to turn inside out before you WILLINGLY tell me all I want to know."

** It's entirely possible that they asked the Dementors way back when they first showed up. They're rarely inclined to do so, but Dementors ''can'' communicate with humans (hell, there was once a colony of Dementors who lived in peace with a Muggle village right next to them, they're not necessarily AlwasyChaoticEvil); it can't be through arduous and eldritch methods, either, because Cornelius Fudge could do it in this very book. Presumably, the first time a Dementor Kissed a wizard, the other wizards desperately asked/screamed "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!" and the Dementors were only too happy to [[EvilGloating gloat]] and explain just how horrible their trump card was.

** They do know ghosts exist, and ghosts are the disembodied souls of the dead
** Ghosts are imprints left on the world by departing souls, {{living memor|y}}ies that seem to largely resent their own existences. Point stands, except this topic is about dementors and logic dictates that if ghosts were actually souls, letting dementors loose in their dwelling would be kind of mean.

* Why is Lupin riding the train into Hogwarts? I know you can't Apparate into the castle, but why not Apparate into Hogsmeade, have a firewhiskey, and then walk or thestrel-coach up and save yourself the inconvenience of a long train ride?

** You're missing the point. Hermione didn't want the Time-Turner any more because time travel was ruining her life. She doesn't want to use time travel anymore because she spent a whole year doing it and it made her miserable. She doesn't want to have to even think about the potential uses of time travel, even if it's not a daily basis for class anymore, because the whole thing has been an enormous headache for her. Saving Sirius was great but going forward she would like to live life like a normal person. Is this a character flaw? Maybe, maybe not. Is it a plothole or a headscratcher? Not really, because this is the explanation Hermione gave us herself.

** No, she's not. Should've brought that up much sooner - that excuse holds no water at all and needs to die as much as those stupid pumpkins[[[note]]the ones Macnair smashed with an axe, which somehow proves time travelers cannot change the past, despite that happening because of them changing the past[[/note]] do. She's as much a rule breaker as the others, she's just the only one who feels bad and complains about it. She lies, she disrupts lessons, she steals, she lets her friends cheat of her, she cooks illegal potions, she partakes in after-curfew activities. You cannot tell me that after all that she would've suddenly hit a mind block regarding a device that had just let her save an innocent man from execution. Is everyone just ignoring that last part? Same goes for [=McGonagall=]. The potential usefulness of the Time Turner completely offsets any trickery she'd have to undertake to keep the thing in Hermie's hands, up to doing her homework for her. It's simply a matter of priorities.

** No, she's not. Should've brought that up much sooner - that excuse holds no water at all and needs to die as much as those stupid pumpkins[[[note]]the ones McNair smashed with an axe, which somehow proves time travelers cannot change the past, despite that happening because of them changing the past[[/note]] do. She's as much a rule breaker as the others, she's just the only one who feels bad and complains about it. She lies, she disrupts lessons, she steals, she lets her friends cheat of her, she cooks illegal potions, she partakes in after-curfew activities. You cannot tell me that after all that she would've suddenly hit a mind block regarding a device that had just let her save an innocent man from execution. Is everyone just ignoring that last part? Some goes for [=McGonagal=]. The potential usefulness of the Time Turner completely offsets any trickery she'd have to undertake to keep the thing in Hermie's hands, up to doing her homework for her. It's simply a matter of priorities.

[[folder: Lupin on train]]

** Why not? The cloak doesn't make him intangible. Just put some magical barrier around the exit and vois la. His only chance was to get back before Malfoy reaches Snape. Of course, eailer Snape clearly demonstrated that he knows about the passage, so only an idiot would use it after that, but that's beside the point.

** First, the "it's natural for cats to hunt rats" excuse. Yeah, and it's natural for owls to deliver mail across the country too, right? Don't forget, the animals owned by wizards and witches are not average pets. They are familiars, virtually every animal in the series displays some unusual trait, whether we talk about Trevor's ability to escape no matter how hard Neville tries to stop him (about the only thing he's consistently shown to put effort into in the first two books), or Mrs Norris's quasy-telepathic connection to Filch, none of them are normal animals. So no, saying that Crookshanks couldn't have been trained to not go after Scabbers, does not fitt with the context of the series, at all. Hermione absolutely should've at least tried to have Crookshanks get socialised with Scabbers.\\
Second, Crookshanks was consistently shown freeroaming the castle and grounds, so Hermione definitely didn't keep her promise to keep him in the girl's dormitory. Not to mention, at Christmas she outright brought the cat into the boy's dormitory, and when Ron immediately told her no to do so, she utterly ''ignored'' him, and then had the nerve to be angry at Ron for trying to kick the cat away from his rat, ''after the cat pounced at Ron with claws erect''.\\
Ron on the other hand carried Scabbers in his pocket, or in his backpack, or otherwise kept him locked in the boys' dorm, that Crookshanks at least once definitely have tried to sneak up into, because ''again'' Hermione let him free roam. So how exactly is Ron at fault, when he did take precautions to keep his rat safe, while Hermione repeatedly ignored blatant signs that her cat wasn't just simply following a hunting instinct, and was in fact deliberately going after one specific rat?\\
While Ron definitely took his grudge way too far after Scabbers disappeared, don't forget it was not simply about Crookshanks presumably eating the rat. It was also about Hermione refusing to admit her fault and apologising for it. Seriously just imagine this thread, if Ron had a dog that killed Crookshanks, after repeated incidents when the dog went out of it's way to target the cat, and Ron did nothing to train it to stop. Noone would dare to say that Hermione should've been taking better care of the cat.\\
On a sidenote Ron and before him Percy, had no problem keeping Scabbers safe from the other cats (and owls) in the castle for years, so the excuse of "he shouldn't have brought a rat to a castle teeming with cats and owls" is beyond disingenuous.

** And Harry has an owl... another natural predator of rats, the monster! Truth is if most students are allowed only to have toads, cats and owls then there are already lots of natural predators that Ron should be worry about anyway. Is not shown in the movies but in the books it is said that there are a lot of cats in Hogwarts. Luna or Cho have one too if IIRC. Besides Crookshanks, as a cat-kneazle hybrid, is intelligent enough to not persecute her owner's friends' pets, if he did was because he knew it was an animagi. Granted neither Ron nor Hermione know that but in reality if Scabbers was an ordinary rat probably no problem would have happened, in a similar way to how Hedwig does not chase Scabbers nor does Mrs. Norris (because they probable are already trainned not too).

** And Harry has an owl... another natural predator of rats, the monster! Truth is if most students are allowed only to have toads, cats and owls then there are already lots of natural predators that Ron should be worry about anyway. Is not shown in the movies but in the books it is said that there are a lot of cats in Hogwarts. Luna or Cho have one too if IIRC. Besides Crookshanks, as a cat-kneazle hybrid, is intelligent enough to not persecute her owner's friends' pets, if he did was because he knew it was an animagi. Granted nor Ron nor Hermione know that but in reality if Scabbers was an ordinary rat probably no problem would have happened, in a similar way to how Hedwig does not chase Scabbers nor does Mrs. Norris (because they probable are already trainned not too).

[[folder:forget the cloak, I'll be safer without it]]

** And Harry has an owl... another natural predator of rats, the monster! Truth is if most students are allow only to have toads, cats and owls then there are already lots of natural predators that Ron should be worry about anyway. Is not shown in the movies but in the books it is said that there are a lot of cats in Hogwarts. Luna or Cho have one too if IIRC. Besides Crookshanks, as a cat-kneazle hybrid, is intelligent enough to not persecute her owner's friends' pets, if he did was because he knew it was an animagi. Granted nor Ron nor Hermione know that but in reality if Scabbers was an ordinary rat probably no problem would have happened, in a similar way to how Hedwig does not chase Scabbers nor does Mrs. Norris (because they probable are already trainned not too).

*** As mentioned later on in this same thread, Hogwarts is full of cats (and owls and toads), something not shown in the movies probably due to budgetary constrains, but clear in the books. Call me crazy but I do think that if you own a rat in a building full of cats is kind of your responsibility to keep the rat save.

* Ron's anger with Hermione for the alleged death of Scabbers is Ron being a world-class git. One: Rats are not on the allowable list of pets in Hogwarts while cats are, so Ron's automatically in the wrong from square one regardless of what else is going on. Two: There are ''dozens'' of natural predators roaming freely around Hogwarts (owls) that eat rats, in addition to the housekeeper's pet cat, in addition to the pet cats that other students own. Scabbers is, to put it charitably, in a high-risk environment. In such an environment it is Ron's responsibility to keep his pet rat inside its cage, where it will be safe. If Scabbers had been a normal rat and not actually a shapeshifted adult wizard he wouldn't have lasted the first week without going down something's gullet. And three: Grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, ''cats eat rats''. For Ron to act surprised, let alone morally outraged, because a cat allegedly indulged in what is entirely natural and expected behavior for cats is a massive entitlement complex. So yes, Ron looks like a total idiot in this sequence and why did Rowling write it?

** Simple. Sirius used the Black Family vault. I can easily imagine that old (and very rich, as the Blacks presumably are) clients can use some kind of code word if they want to do business per owl and not show up in Gringotts in person. The Blacks lived in London, yes, but some Wizard families (like the Malfoys for example)live in the countryside, or maybe even outside GB, so it isn't a stretch to think that Gringott's offers mail-based services.

** answer: Snape is a whiny arse who's willing to lie, cheat, and steal his way to victory, [=McGonagall=] isn't.

** Well back in first year, the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw match was the last one of the year. Malfoy didn't have the game rearranged. He just had the opponents changed. Snape would hardly be above something like that.

*** It follows then that at the time Sirius went to Azkaban, no one knew about the mark on the arm. From which we conclude that no known Death Eater had been captured alive at the time, and the Ministry was guessing in the dark about who had been one. They learn about it between Sirius's imprisonment and ''Goblet of Fire'', because Snape shoves his under Fudge's nose for evidence, and seems to think that Fudge should have some idea of it's meaning. However ''even he isn't sure.'' He explains what it means, spelling out the brand in detail.
*** Ergo, I argue that the "Identification Tattos" were relatively unknown at the time of the event in question, and not well known thirteen years later.

** Where was it mentioned that the Dark Mark was still present during the trials? I don't recall that. I agree with the assessment that they faded quickly after the attack on the Potters. For that matter though, there's reason to believe that the Ministry didn't even ''know'' about the Death Eaters' branding. Otherwise, it would be shockingly easy to confirm or deny the identity of ''all'' accused Death Eaters, period. Ex: Ludo Bagman doesn't have the mark, but Barty Crouch Jr does. For that matter, at the end of [=GoF=], Snape shows Fudge his Dark Mark, and has to explain what it is and why it's there, strongly indicating that their presence wasn't common knowledge. By that logic, we can also pretty strongly conclude that the Marks did fade fairly soon after Voldemort's first fall. Otherwise, surely it would have been noted during their entrance into Azkaban that "hmm. all these people we've imprisoned for being Death Eaters mysteriously have the same Dark Mark tattoo on their left forearms. Perhaps this is an identifying feature, and thus something we can use as evidence to convict other suspects?"

** they didn't fade right away, nor did they fade completely. Dark marks were still present during the trials for other Death Eaters, including Snape.