History Headscratchers / FreddyVsJason

*** The movie seems to imply that it's not fear that gives Freddy his power, it's fear of Freddy. "Being forgotten, that's a bitch." It's also fits with the way the town erased all records and memory of him. They could be scared out their minds about Jason, [[Franchise/{{Hellraiser}} Pinhead]], [[Franchise/{{Halloween}} Michael Myers]] and the [[Film/TheEvilDead Deadites]] besides and it wouldn't do Freddy much good. Yes the illusion of we have it all under control is a good one but the truth would have worked just fine had Will and Mark not escaped and spread the fear specifically of Freddy. Though Lori seemed to be somewhat aware of Freddy already and with sufficient nudging would probably have spread the fear herself. That's yet another downside to not running with the 'it's Jason' story. Jason is just a psychopath in a mask. He's been "killed" at least twice in canon in parts III and IV and after part IV it stuck long enough for Tommy to go from a kid to a teen. A bunch of cops hunting Jason would probably go about the same way it worked in Jason Goes To Hell. One dead zombie. Jason defeated, the town has nothing to fear, Freddy's plan fails. There really was no upside to what the sheriff went through but if I had a killer ghost in my city that was defeated by ignoring it, I might not think rationally when stuff started happening.

** The transfer officer didn't say it was ''Jason.'' He said it was a copycat of Jason - a mortal individual, since not only has Jason been put down for years; he's known to never leave Camp Crystal Lake if he can avoid it. This was pulled off so that they were ''both'' wrong. The adults of Springwood are used to Freddy coming back though. A mortal killer is the ''least'' of their worries.
Also, the adults thought that Freddy had found his fear, not that his plan was still to create it with Jason.

*** There is nothing that would suggest this movie takes place in another timeline. The reason you get these discrepancies is because you put if before Nightmare 6 while it has to happen after Nightmare 6 which would explain Freddy being trapped in hell. Also it was clearly hinted in the first Nightmare that he needs fear to fuel his powers. Nancy could only escape his dreamworld in Nightmare 1 because she stopped fearing him.
** Or, Freddy does need fear, but in the first installments, it's the PARENTS' fear of Freddy that gives him the power to come after the kids. Two is still a sticky widget (but then, it always is), but up until Four, there are still parents in Springwood who remember, and are likely still afraid, of Freddy. Once Freddy finishes off the Elm Street Children and starts branching out, then the fear that sustains him becomes much more difficult to sustain.
*** If that was the case, they he shouldn't have needed Jason for his scheme; all of Springwood's adult population is obviously terrified of Freddy coming back or they wouldn't do everything they did to prevent it. Also, while the original Elm street parents were obviously scarred by Freddy's actions, it's doubtful they were truly afraid of him after they'd burned him.

** Hypnocil has been around since Nightmare on Elm Street 3 which is at minimum a decade or so before Freddy vs Jason (there isn't much to accurately give us a hint of the time table) and in all that time it hasn't been approved for the public use for a reason. That stuff is dangerous and people NEED to dream. From what little was seen of Westin Hills, two things are pretty clear: first, Will and Mark are clearly higher functioning than most of the people interned there, and as we find out from the coma ward there are LOTS of cases of people overdosing on the stuff and that's just from the fairly limited amount of people they are dosing. Plus, in real life people need to dream and that's probably true in-universe as well. Why at no point was it decided to burn the entire city down, records and all, and leave is beyond me. It seems clear that Freddy's Dead either still takes place 'ten years from now' or can safely be considered non-canon, and either way, Freddy seems to be more or less limited to Springwood. Scorch the city and GTFO would solve the problem relatively well.
*** As long as no one from the rights holders said it's non-canon then we cannot assume that. Also this move happening after Nightmare 6 explains why Freddy can´t leave hell. Springwood has probably been repopulated after Freddy´s defeat in 6.

** This, plus, as mentioned, Hypnocil has been around and still in the "experimental" stage for quite a while. The kids shown in the coma ward who were "given too much Hypnocil" could be because the drug is extremely tricky to dose correctly. Too much and you end up in a permanent coma, too little and you can still dream (or maybe have even more vivid dreams, the last thing you'd want to have when being stalked by Freddy). Whatever the reason, the fact the Hypnocil has been around for ten or twenty years and ''still'' hasn't been approved says there's something deeply flawed with it, and it's use at Westin Hills is the best of bad options.

* The whole conceit of the movie of no one remembering Freddy, so he no longer has power, makes no sense in the movie or the series. Will and Mark both know about Freddy at Westin Hills, even while being medicated. There is zero chance that no one has ever heard them talking about Freddy. Regardless, EVERY ADULT in Springwood knows about Freddy.
Throughout the movie and TV series, Freddy has killed or attempted to kill multiple adults. There has never been anything that says he can ONLY kill kids/teens, and Freddy's Dead shows him killing an adult before he was even burned. The entire plot then makes no sense, since Freddy wouldn't need Jason to make people think he was back and therefore give him power via fear. The adults are still terrified of Freddy. And Freddy can and has killed adults. All he needed to do was kill one of the adults giving their kids Hypnocil, then go after the kid.
** While Freddy does kill adults from time to time that's not who he wants to kill. He needs the kids themselves to be afraid of him to kill them and the only ones of those who remember him don't dream now so he can't get at them.

** That also being said in this fantasy system, is it only fear in the mind or do the adults not get to give Freddy power by just telling themselves, "i'm not afraid"?

** Come to think of it, this is something not that clear in the first film. By the time it starts Tina and Rod are apparently already having nightmares but none of the first movie kids seem to have any idea of who Freddy was. Is it fair to wonder if Nancy and friends were the first victims Freddy got to?
** It also is probable everyone who was living in the neighborhood when they killed Freddy wasn't still living there by the time of the first film. Staying in an area where you have fond memories of roasting the local child murderer may not have been a likable future.

** Most people will never see the body. You have a closed casket funeral or just dress the corpse so you can't see the stab wounds and send them out.

** Jason Goes to hell is not in it´s own canon. At the end of said movie there is a scene that directly leads to the events of this movie (Freddy stealing Jason´s mask).

* Is it just me or is any one else on the side of the adults in the movie? They are painted in a malicious light by drugging their kids, covering up Freddy's existence completely, throwing kids that know about Freddy in a insane asylum. I acknowledge that those are highly unethical but to me those seem acceptable compared to letting a demonic serial killer kill their children in their dream. Hell the fact that they figure out to stop Freddy completely should be seen as a win. How are they not seen as the good guys in the big scheme of things?
** It probably is just a matter of ethics; whether you believe in the utilitarian "ends justify the means" philosophy or the "some lines should never be crossed" philosophy. The adults in this movie seem to be depicted in a negative light because it's from the point of view of the teenagers, who don't know the full context since said adults tried to suppress all info to the point of "gaslighting" those who have encountered Freddy.

** Presumably prior to Freddy's Dead once the majority of the population learned about Freddy they simply fled then returned once he had been vanquished by his daughter.

** As for 1428 Elm Street renovation, maybe it was Dr. Campbell before he moved in. Or whatever heirs Thompsons had did it and sold the house to him. Maggie's birth date and apparent age prevent ''Freddy's Dead'' from taking place later than early 2000s though. And since [=FvJ=] takes place in 2003-2004... yeah, a cover-up. That must be it.

** Freddy seemed to assume Jason would simply wander off back to Crystal Lake eventually, Springwood not being his "territory" he didn't count on Jason being so single-minded, that he needed to clarify that he only had to kill a few then go home.

*** The movie seems to imply that it's not fear that gives Freddy his power, it's fear of Freddy. "Being forgotten, that's a bitch." It's also fits with the way the town erased all records and memory of him. They could be scared out their minds about Jason, [[Franchise/Hellraiser Pinhead]], [[Franchise/Halloween Michael Myers]] and the [[Film/TheEvilDead Deadites]] besides and it wouldn't do Freddy much good. Yes the illusion of we have it all under control is a good one but the truth would have worked just fine had Will and Mark not escaped and spread the fear specifically of Freddy. Though Lori seemed to be somewhat aware of Freddy already and with sufficient nudging would probably have spread the fear herself. That's yet another downside to not running with the 'it's Jason' story. Jason is just a psychopath in a mask. He's been "killed" at least twice in canon in parts III and IV and after part IV it stuck long enough for Tommy to go from a kid to a teen. A bunch of cops hunting Jason would probably go about the same way it worked in Jason Goes To Hell. One dead zombie. Jason defeated, the town has nothing to fear, Freddy's plan fails. There really was no upside to what the sheriff went through but if I had a killer ghost in my city that was defeated by ignoring it, I might not think rationally when stuff started happening.

*** The movie seems to imply that it's not fear that gives Freddy his power, it's fear of Freddy. "Being forgotten, that's a bitch." It's also fits with the way the town erased all records and memory of him. They could be scared out their minds about Jason, [[Film/Hellraiser Pinhead]], [[Film/Halloween Michael Myers]] and the [[Film/TheEvilDead Deadites]] besides and it wouldn't do Freddy much good. Yes the illusion of we have it all under control is a good one but the truth would have worked just fine had Will and Mark not escaped and spread the fear specifically of Freddy. Though Lori seemed to be somewhat aware of Freddy already and with sufficient nudging would probably have spread the fear herself. That's yet another downside to not running with the 'it's Jason' story. Jason is just a psychopath in a mask. He's been "killed" at least twice in canon in parts III and IV and after part IV it stuck long enough for Tommy to go from a kid to a teen. A bunch of cops hunting Jason would probably go about the same way it worked in Jason Goes To Hell. One dead zombie. Jason defeated, the town has nothing to fear, Freddy's plan fails. There really was no upside to what the sheriff went through but if I had a killer ghost in my city that was defeated by ignoring it, I might not think rationally when stuff started happening.

** Jason was in Crystal Lake which seems to not that far from Springwood since it was close enough to drive in a single night. And for Jason nothing is too far to walk/swim. He can walk quite quickly for one, doesn't get tired or bored or any of that. He could walk to China if the mood struck him. Though only a few movies have him outside Crystal Lake and they all have semi-plausible explanations. He took a boat in ''Jason Takes Manhattan'' and swims the last few miles, his body is transported in ''Jason Goes to Hell'' and his Heart eaten, he's captured in ''Jason X'' and he's summoned and walks in ''Jason vs. Freddy'' and we have no idea how long it took. Freddy had been searching for years, I doubt he'd even register a few weeks or months.

*** The human characters here though clearly drove there in quicker time than legally possible though.

* Why would Jason be afraid of water? He lived in the lake for years. I know its an attempt to make this a battle of the elements, but it really seems inconsistent with past movies to me. Instead of making their methods of death their weaknesses, why not make them their strengths? (drowning scene could still happen, it would just be more ironic: Freddy turning Jason's own power against him)

** The transfer officer didn't say it was ''Jason.'' He said it was a copycat of Jason - a mortal individual, since not only has Jason been put down for years; he's known to never leave Camp Crystal Lake if he can avoid it. This was pulled off so that they were ''both'' wrong. The adults of Springwood are used to Freddy coming back though. A mortal killer is the ''least'' of their worries. Also, the adults thought that Freddy had found his fear, not that his plan was still to create it with Jason.

*** The movie seems to imply that it's not fear that gives Freddy his power, it's fear of Freddy. "Being forgotten, that's a bitch." It's also fits with the way the town erased all records and memory of him. They could be scared out their minds about Jason, Pinhead, Michael Myers and the Deadites besides and it wouldn't do Freddy much good. Yes the illusion of we have it all under control is a good one but the truth would have worked just fine had Will and Mark not escaped and spread the fear specifically of Freddy. Though Lori seemed to be somewhat aware of Freddy already and with sufficient nudging would probably have spread the fear herself. That's yet another downside to not running with the 'it's Jason' story. Jason is just a psychopath in a mask. He's been "killed" at least twice in cannon in parts III and IV and after part IV it stuck long enough for Tommy to go from a kid to a teen. A bunch of cops hunting Jason would would probably go about the same way it worked in Jason goes to hell. One dead zombie. Jason defeated the town has nothing to fear, Freddy's plan fails. There really was no upside to what the sheriff went through but if I had a killer ghost in my city that was defeated by ignoring I might not think rationally when stuff started happening.

*** As long as no one from the rightholders said it´s noncanon then we cannot assume that. Also this move happening after Nightmare 6 explains why Freddy can´t leave hell. Springwood has probably been repopulated after Freddy´s defeat in 6.

* The whole conceit of the movie of no one remembering Freddy, so he no longer has power, makes no sense in the movie or the series. Will and Mark both know about Freddy at Westin Hills, even while being medicated. There is zero chance that no one has ever heard them talking about Freddy. Regardless, EVERY ADULT in Springwood knows about Freddy. Throughout the movie and TV series, Freddy has killed or attempted to kill multiple adults. There has never been anything that says he can ONLY kill kids/teens, and Freddy's Dead shows him killing an adult before he was even burned. The entire plot then makes no sense, since Freddy wouldn't need Jason to make people think he was back and therefore give him power via fear. The adults are still terrified of Freddy. And Freddy can and has killed adults. All he needed to do was kill one of the adults giving their kids Hypnocil, then go after the kid.

** Jason was in Crystal Lake which seems to not that far from Springwood since it was close enough to drive in a single night. And for Jason nothing is too far to walk/swim. He can walk quite quickly for one, doesn't get tired or bored or any of that. He could walk to China if the mood struck him. Though only a few movies have him outside Crystal Lake and they all have semi-plausible explanations. He took a boat in Jason Takes Manhattan and swims the last few miles, his body is transported in Jason Goes to Hell and his Heart eaten, he's captured in Jason X and he's summoned and walks in Jason vs Freddy and we have no idea how long it took. Freddy had been searching for years, I doubt he'd even register a few weeks or months.

*** The movie seems to imply that it's not fear that gives Freddy his power, it's fear of Freddy. "Being forgotten, that's a bitch." It's also fits with the way the town erased all records and memory of him. They could be scared out their minds about Jason, Pinhead, Mike Myers and the Deadites besides and it wouldn't do Freddy much good. Yes the illusion of we have it all under control is a good one but the truth would have worked just fine had Will and Mark not escaped and spread the fear specifically of Freddy. Though Lori seemed to be somewhat aware of Freddy already and with sufficient nudging would probably have spread the fear herself. That's yet another downside to not running with the 'it's Jason' story. Jason is just a psychopath in a mask. He's been "killed" at least twice in cannon in parts III and IV and after part IV it stuck long enough for Tommy to go from a kid to a teen. A bunch of cops hunting Jason would would probably go about the same way it worked in Jason goes to hell. One dead zombie. Jason defeated the town has nothing to fear, Freddy's plan fails. There really was no upside to what the sheriff went through but if I had a killer ghost in my city that was defeated by ignoring I might not think rationally when stuff started happening.

* A minor thing, but how Jason knows where Elm Street is?

*** Also, the Police Chief ''knows'' Freddy is real, and knows that he needs to be dealt with. He's less interested in exploring alternate theories and more in trying to contain this problem as quick as he can, before Freddy can "spread." Yeah, if he's wrong, and it's not Freddy more people will die, but if he's right, and they don't act ''now'' to stop Freddy. . . well, remember the ChildlessDystopia in ''Freddy's Dead''?

* How can Springwood have recovered so fast? Didn't Freddy's Dead state that all its' children were dead yet there now seem to be countless teenagers? Springwood was a town full of insane parents because all of the kids had been killed by Freddy. When Freddy vs. Jason starts up, the town seems normal enough, if not a little freaky about Freddy coming back. Did they just pretend the sixth movie never happened? On that note, who renovated 1428 Elm Street? It was a total wreck ever since the third movie.

* How can Springwood have recovered so fast? Didn't Freddy's Dead state that all its' children were dead yet there now seem to be countless teenagers?

* So the reason Creator/KaneHodder wasn't cast as Jason is because they wanted a more significant height-difference between him and Creator/RobertEnglund / Freddy. Couldn't they have just had Hodder wear platform shoes (like Angus Scrimm did when he played [[Film/{{Phantasm}} The Tall Man]])?
** It wasn't just size, though that was part of it. The studio wanted "to do something different," and that meant a different Jason. While Kane Hodder is the definitive Jason for many fans, the movies he's been in are considered the worst in the series, ''[[Film/FridayThe13thPartVIITheNewBlood Part VII]]'' and ''[[Film/FridayThe13thPartVIIIJasonTakesManhattan Part VIII]]'' being where the {{Sequelitis}} really sunk in, ''Film/JasonGoesToHellTheFinalFriday'' being a BizarroEpisode that barely has Jason in it, and ''Film/JasonX'' being ''[[RecycledInSpace Jason X]]''. The fans love Kane Hodder as Jason; the movies they have to watch him be Jason in, not so much. It's a totally "studio executive" move to say "look, Kane Hodder played Jason in four films and they all sucked, let's get someone else." Never mind that the fans, even if they '''hate''' any or all of those movies, think Kane Hodder's Jason was the best (or only good) thing about them.
* Why are fans so upset over Creator/KaneHodder not playing Jason in this movie? Hodder wasn't even the first actor to portray him, and since Jason is both TheVoiceless and covered head-to-toe in makeup, the only difference between Hodder and any other actor is the way he walks, which is something the majority of people would hardly even notice.
** Because for many fans, Hodder is ''the'' definitive Jason. Really watch the Friday the 13th movies, and Hodder gives Jason a whole character, simply through physicality, that few other Jason performers do (and even the ones that do, you can debate on if they're better than how Hodder plays him or not). Freddy is a villain with a lot of character ([[BrokenBase whether that's a good thing or not is debatable]]), so for Jason to really stand against him as his own villain, many fans would rightly feel Jason needs to have character himself, and Kane Hodder does that beautifully. Thankfully, so does Ken Kirzinger.

*** [[Handwave It's possible]] that being "killed" in the last movie did have some lasting impacts on Freddy; whatever initial power he had to invade the Elm street children's dreams, he now has to start from scratch, so to speak. The events of that film serving as a sort of SoftReboot to Freddy's powers would also explain why he can now leave Springwood.

** Presumably prior to Freddy's Dead once the majority of the population learned about Freddy they simply fled then returned once he had been vanquished by his daughter.