History Headscratchers / EyesWideShut

* If Alice was a participant in the orgy as a few people believe due to her description of the dream she was having when she is awaken by Bill, how would it be possible for her to do so? Even if she had managed to stay awake and sneak off to go that very night, she would have to have someone at the apartment to keep an eye on her kid for her to leave. And even if she was there, she'd have to leave some time before Bill is removed from the premises at the orgy to be able to go back home (which is roughly an hour to get back, going from Nick's information about the party starting at 2am and Bill telling Alice after she woke up that it's "a little past four"), which would leave her with little time to wash up and climb into bed before Bill arrived. And how would she be able to go on any other night, considering that she's married and with a child, meaning that there'd be no free time for her to do so during the night time because of the fact any other time, she'd be in bed with Bill and risking him waking up and finding her missing? And parties like that wouldn't be done during the day (staff included, sex workers excluded), so she wouldn't be able to go to one that way.

*** This also brings up another question: If Nick was killed, then why didn't they make it look like an accident that occurred in the hotel room? If they killed Amanda and made it look like an OD (with the news article noting that the doors of her placed were locked from the inside), then making Nick look like he slipped and fell in the shower (for example) wouldn't have been hard for them to do. Not to mention, people falling in showers are a common thing that makes it plausible that no one would suspect foul play (and if the group are as powerful as people claim they are, they have the police in their pocket and were able to successfully make Amanda's death look like an OD, then they would be able to make a "slip in the shower" death story stick without anyone being the wiser).

* Another one for Victor Ziegler and the orgyists: there are a small number of people who take Bill's interpretations of events as truth that the orgyists were going to hurt or possibly kill Bill to keep their orgy a secret and that they did kill the woman in the mask and Nightingale may have possibly been killed too. Victor states the orgyists planned on just scaring him to keep him silent about what he saw and we see that before Bill finds out about Amanda Curran's death in the newspaper, it's clear their plan to keep silent due to being scared worked. Victor telling Bill what actually was going on does the opposite of what the group wanted and pretty much allowed Bill to talk to his wife about what happened (IIRC, didn't they tell him not to tell her anything as well?). Now, if Bill's interpretation of events were in fact the truth, why the hell did Victor call him to his place, spin a lie about nothing happening to the masked woman except her being screwed silly like before, that Nick was alive and sent back home to his wife and family, and that the woman died of an OD in her own apartment? Doing that would just give Bill no reason to keep quiet anymore, and Bill had no idea Victor was there until he told him. So, for those who believe that Bill's interpretation of events as true, can you explain what gives away that Victor lying about what happened (any particular details that jump out that confirms Bill's interpretation as truth and Victor's explaination as lie), when the action of him calling Bill to his house and telling him the truth gave Bill free rein to tell anyone he wanted about the orgy seems legitimately true? And if Victor is lying, why would he bother to call Bill with this lie about nothing happening to the masked woman that hadn't happened before, lying about Nick being alive but beaten up and that the woman OD in her own apartment, when the group had successfully frightened Bill to stay quiet if they legitimately have the power and money to make people disappear? Even better, if they were as powerful as some have suggested, why let Bill leave the mansion at all if the orgyists were as dangerous as Bill believed before Victor told him the truth? Every time this troper has asked this question, the TinfoilHat conspiracy theorists would be in droves answering as if theirs was the only one.

* Another one for Victor Ziegler and the orgyists: there are a small number of people who take Bill's interpretations of events as truth that the orgyists were going to hurt or possibly kill Bill to keep their orgy a secret and that they did kill the woman in the mask and Nightingale may have possibly been killed too. Victor states the orgyists planned on just scaring him to keep him silent about what he saw and we see that before Bill finds out about Amanda Curran's death in the newspaper, it's clear their plan to keep silent due to being scared worked. Victor telling Bill what actually was going on does the opposite of what the group wanted and pretty much allowed Bill to talk to his wife about what happened (IIRC, didn't they tell him not to tell her anything as well?). Now, if Bill's interpretation of events were in fact the truth, why the hell did Victor call him to his place, spin a lie about nothing happening to the masked woman except her being screwed silly like before, that Nick was alive and sent back home to his wife and family, and that the woman died of an OD in her own apartment? Doing that would just give Bill no reason to keep quiet anymore, and Bill had no idea Victor was there until he told him. So, for those who believe that Bill's interpretation of events as true, can you explain what gives away that Victor lying about what happened (any particular details that jump out that confirms Bill's interpretation as truth and Victor's explaination as lie), when the action of him calling Bill to his house and telling him the truth gave Bill free rein to tell anyone he wanted about the orgy seems legitimately true? And if Victor is lying, why would he bother to call Bill with this lie about nothing happening to the masked woman that hadn't happened before, lying about Nick being alive but beaten up and that the woman OD in her own apartment, when the group had successfully frightened Bill to stay quiet if they legitimately have the power and money to make people disappear? Even better, if they were as powerful as some have suggested, why let Bill leave the mansion at all if the orgyists were as dangerous as Bill believed before Victor told him the truth?

*** This also brings up another question: If Nick was killed, then why didn't they make it look like an accident that occurred in the hotel room? If they killed Amanda and made it look like an OD (with the news article noting that the doors and windows of her placed were locked from the inside), then making Nick look like he slipped and fell in the shower (for example) wouldn't have been hard for them to do. Not to mention, people falling in showers are a common thing that makes it plausible that no one would suspect foul play (and if the group are as powerful as people claim they are, they have the police in their pocket and were able to successfully make Amanda's death look like an OD, then they would be able to make a "slip in the shower" death story stick without anyone being the wiser).

*** Another possibility that isn't considered is the fact that after Bill came in, he wasn't standing with everyone else. It seems that all the orgyists all stand together during the "ritual", even if there may have been those who were individuals, there wasn't many standing by themselves or separate from everyone else. Bill, however, was still standing by himself after he came in. Also, there is the fact that he came later than everyone else there. The fact he was literally "standing out" from others there and coming in later than everyone else might have also been a bit of a clue to her that he wasn't one of them.

*** This also brings up another question: If Nick was killed, then why didn't they make it look like an accident that occurred in the hotel room? If they killed Amanda and made it look like an OD (with the news article noting that the doors and windows of her placed were locked from the inside), then making Nick look like he slipped and fell in the shower (for example) wouldn't have been hard for them to do.

** Another thing, if Nick was actually killed, why bother taking him back to his hotel to pack his things and check out in front of an eyewitness (and CCTV)? They could've just gone in the back door and packed up his stuff and quietly pay his bill or just not show up at all.

*** This one is possible if all the people used the same costumes (which would make sense, as the people who attend these parties would have as they own their costumes and used them multiple times regularly instead of renting them, like Bill, and his probably stood out to her. And for as to why she didn't assume this was just a new addition to the party, there's probably another small ritual where new people are with another familiar person (or couple) and she didn't recognize his mask and came by himself without someone familiar being near him). Also, the fact that Bill was standing by himself probably was one of the more "stand-out" (no pun intended) clues for her (as everyone else appears to be standing in groups or couples (with the exception of the hired help, who are by themselves but are not dressed as the others in the orgy).

*** This one is possible if all the people used the same costumes (which would make sense, as the people who attend these parties would have as they own their costumes and used them multiple times regularly instead of renting them, like Bill, and his probably stood out to her. And for as to why she didn't assume this was just a new addition to the party, there's probably another small ritual where new people are with another familiar person (or couple) and she didn't recognize his mask and came by himself without someone familiar introducing them).

*** This one is possible if all the people used the same costumes (which would make more sense for the people have as they own their costumes instead of renting them).

** The mask fell out of the bed after Bill got home, and he didn't realize it. Later that day, Alice found the mask. She put it on the pillow beside her, figuring that was all she needed to do to ask Bill what was going on.

** One: she actually knew everybody at the party, so she instantly recognised Bill as an intruder. Or she spotted the taxi and realized that he was, it's just that someone else tipped Ziegler off and she tipped Bill off.

* Another one for Victor Ziegler and the orgyists: there are a small number of people who take Bill's interpretations of events as truth that the orgyists were going to hurt or possibly kill Bill to keep their orgy a secret and that they did kill the woman in the mask and Nightingale may have possibly been killed too. Victor states the orgyists planned on just scaring him to keep him silent about what he saw and we see that before Bill finds out about Amanda Curran's death in the newspaper, it's clear their plan to keep silent due to being scared worked. Victor telling Bill what actually was going on does the oppose of what the group wanted and pretty much allowed Bill to talk to his wife about what happened (IIRC, didn't they tell him not to tell her anything as well?). Now, if Bill's interpretation of events were in fact the truth, why the hell did Victor call him to his place, spin a lie about nothing happening to the masked woman except her being screwed silly like before, that Nick was alive and sent back home to his wife and family, and that the woman died of an OD in her own apartment? Doing that would just give Bill no reason to keep quiet anymore, and Bill had no idea Victor was there until he told him. So, for those who believe that Bill's interpretation of events as true, can you explain what gives away that Victor lying about what happened (any particular details that jump out that confirms Bill's interpretation as truth and Victor's explaination as lie), when the action of him calling Bill to his house and telling him the truth gave Bill free rein to tell anyone he wanted about the orgy seems legitimately true? And if Victor is lying, why would he bother to call Bill with this lie about nothing happening to the masked woman that hadn't happened before, lying about Nick being alive but beaten up and that the woman OD in her own apartment, when the group had successfully frightened Bill to stay quiet if they legitimately have the power and money to make people disappear? Even better, if they were as powerful as some have suggested, why let Bill leave the mansion at all if the orgyists were as dangerous as Bill believed before Victor told him the truth?

*** On top of which. ''So what?'' They had a formal masked costume party that featured an orgy between consenting adults. Even if Bill had decided to go public, he'd have no proof. The group doesn't need to kill him (which would attract unwanted attention). All they have to do is sit back and do nothing.

*** The woman from the costume party was the ''same'' woman from Ziegler's Christmas party. Which makes her death less of a coincidence than the logical and sad conclusion of someone who abused drugs and didn't get help.

** Why bother even thinking about killing him at all? There are no names, no faces, no records, no artifacts and no witnesses. Ziegler's explanation, which is simple and straight forward, may actually be true. The group's intentions were to scare him about what he heard and saw so there'd be no further investigation or publicity and get him out the door and away from that house. The only way the group can screw it up is to kill Bill and threaten/harm his family. Because if they do, his surviving friends and family may ask questions and before you know it there's a pile of bodies that you can't just get rid of. The woman who died of an overdose may have been a case of taking advantage of her death to reinforce their warnings. After all, the warnings would've worked even if no one had died. Ziegler probably decided that enough was enough and explained to Bill what was going on to calm him down before things got out of hand (as in thinking his life was in danger, that a woman was murdered and going to the police to report it). One bit of confirmation could be as simple as Bill finding Nick in Seattle and seeing him alive and well without making any contact.
*** It should also be pointed out that Bill ''trespassed'' on private property and invaded their privacy. As Ziegler points out, Bill had ''no business being there in the first place.'' He rightly pointed out that it was Nick's fault. If Nick was bound by an NDA, he should've kept his mouth shut or at least explained to Bill that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement. As a Doctor, Bill would've understood and backed off. Wearing masks and having orgies aren't illegal. Someone threatened their privacy and they made it very clear to him and Nick that what they did was not appropriate and to get out.

*** On top of which. So what? They had a formal masked costume party that featured an orgy between consenting adults. Even if Bill had decided to go public, he'd have no proof. The group doesn't need to kill him (which would attract unwanted attention). All they have to do is sit back and do nothing.

*** It should also be pointed out that Bill ''trespassed'' on private property and invaded their privacy. As Ziegler points out, Bill had no business being there ''in the first place.'' He rightly pointed out that it was Nick's fault. If Nick was bound by an NDA, he should've kept his mouth shut or at least explained to Bill that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement. As a Doctor, Bill would've understood and backed off. Wearing masks and having orgies aren't illegal. Someone threatened their privacy and they made it very clear to him and Nick that what they did was not appropriate and to get out.

*** It should also be pointed out that Bill ''trespassed'' on private property and invaded their privacy. As Ziegler points out, Bill has no business being there ''in the first place.'' He rightly pointed out that it was Nick's fault. If Nick was bound by an NDA, he should've kept his mouth shut or at least explained to Bill that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement. As a Doctor, Bill would've understood and backed off. Wearing masks and having orgies aren't illegal. Someone threatened their privacy and they made it very clear to him and Nick that what they did was not appropriate and to get out.