History Headscratchers / BlazBlue

* Okay, this just bugged me, but what would be Litchi's alignment ultimately? NeutralGood? ChaoticGood? TrueNeutral? NeutralGood seems to stem from how she likes helping people and is, deep down, a kind person. However, [[spoiler:since she joined NOL, it dashes away her NeutralGood tendencies since it's an EVIL organization, but she pretty much doesn't care, as long as she can save Arakune, which NOL has.]] However, judging from how many people compares this with the Nasuverse, I get the feeling that Litchi might be ChaoticGood instead, [[spoiler:since her decision with Arakune is similar with the decision that Shirou made in Heaven's Feel scenario: let the world be endangered just so long as he can save his love (Sakura)]]. Well, which will it be?
** I would say that she's initially NeutralGood, and, as you say, her decision to save Arakune goes into ChaoticGood territory. However, I personally believe that she might end up as ChaoticNeutral if she keeps up her current attitude. It occurred to me that maybe the reason for her [[spoiler:FaceHeelTurn is FridgeBrilliance, since the Boundary's power erodes minds which would mean that she's losing her common sense, since it's a mental faculty.]]
** Wait, wait. The current Litchi [[spoiler:that joined NOL]] is ChaoticGood... or ChaoticNeutral? Or were you referring the ChaoticNeutral Litchi as her when the corruption reached its peak (AKA, her becoming something similar to Arakune)?
*** I believe that the above troper was trying to say that Litchi was initially Neutral Good, currently Chaotic Good and might end up being Chaotic Neutral if this trend continues.
** Need I remind you that the NOL is not inherently evil? Yes, they're controversial, and yes, their leaders are questionable at best, but they're essentially a government slash military slash police force slash university. To call them inherently evil is WAY overgeneralizing. Going with the NOL does not make her evil -- she's doing it to try and save somebody she loves, and while this will probably put her on the evil side of some fights in ''VideoGame/BlazBlueChronoPhantasma'', it doesn't change her whole character alignment.
** Everyone else in this site has been treating her like no longer good. Hell, have you seen how the articles in other characters NEVER let it be passed that she betrayed those who has trusted her (Bang, Carl, Tao, Linhua)? Of course I do agree that she's not Evil, but still, I am still confused on how you think that her alignment were still Good, not degraded into Neutral (I'm personally hoping you'll state why it's still Good and not Neutral, though). The accusations of her no longer Good weren't solely because of just joining NOL, but because she looked like not being there against her will but more like giving in to her selfish desires on doing it, if you just look at the surface.
** And, once you delve deeper past the surface, the truth is practically laid out before your eyes. In her core, Litchi is NeutralGood, moving to Orient Town and protecting the town, finding ways to preserve the Kaka clan's existence, and essentially helping ''everyone'' in need that she can all while devising a way to destroy or save an old friend. When she decides there's a chance of saving him, the story's progression reveals that she made choices that actually infringed upon LawfulGood territory. While she [[ForcedIntoEvil forcibly]] joins the evil organization NOL and working with Relius and Hazama (both of whom she greatly detests), and siding with Relius in desperate hopes of creating a new world where Roy can even live in normally, she never betrays her personal code of helping others in need (in a given example, calming down an upset, violent and distraught Carl), only attacking others under orders of Relius. By the end of the series, she's back to her NeutralGood ways once everything is said and done.

** The only things we know are that they are a system made by mankind, they monitor the timelines, they're trying to make the world "correct" and are attempting to reach the Azure for that purpose. They released Terumi to carry out the "Destruction protocol" to get the Master Unit out of the way. They pretty much explicitly say they don't want to kill everything like Terumi does when Rachel suggests they want to reduce the world to nothingness. More information about them will be revealed in the ''[[LightNovel/BlazBluePhaseShift BlazBlue: Phase 0]]'' light novel.

** It's mostly here on Wiki/TVTropes, especially in the earlier stages of CT. A lot of YMMV stuffs put Ragna as a Myth/RobinHood-esque hero, ChaoticGood, fight to free the world from NOL oppression...and hell, NOL itself is viewed as a [[Franchise/StarWars Palpatine-level]] [[TheEmpire Empire]] due to its 'oppression' (with or without Ragna). A lot of people never bothered to fix those so it's like [=TVTropes=] accept that Ragna is like Myth/RobinHood, not a LighterAndSofter version of [[VideoGame/GodOfWar Kratos]]. Although doing that may risk of putting tons of [[DracoInLeatherPants Leather Pants]] on Hazama/Terumi. Regardless, even if Ragna is brutal, he will always be the {{Face}} and anyone dare oppose him (especially NOL) will be considered {{Heel}}... but is it really true?

** The thing is, ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' fandom has a tendency to exaggerate lots of things, NOL's 'Empire'-ness is one of them (last time, Jin's {{Jerkass}}ery was dialled up to eleven despite some soft spots of his in the past). And it has overarched in Wiki/TVTropes, it was painful to read. I may even make some Analysis that bust out these myths. Playability does not really count. Kokonoe and Jubei enjoy MASSIVE popularity even when they're not playable. I think people try to defend Kokonoe more than, say, Litchi, because at least she's a good guy fighting the villain rather than someone who supports the villain despite not really agreeing to his principals. This 'Empire-ness' of NOL has caused the definition of HeelFaceTurn and FaceHeelTurn to be twisted, especially the latter. Did Litchi REALLY do a FaceHeelTurn solely for joining NOL, even if her principal of saving people hasn't changed? Did Tsubaki sticking with NOL counts as a FaceHeelTurn, despite, you know, being raised from age zero to serve NOL, and some MindRape? They really haven't crossed the MoralEventHorizon or admited that EvilFeelsGood, so why are they {{Heel}}s for being with NOL? This gets so silly that it's as if the motto of ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' alignment is: "Are you with NOL/Hazama/Relius? If yes, then you're a {{Heel}}. Boo!"

** There's never been a case that showed that NOL directly triggered Ikaruga to 'rebel', it's more like Ikaruga was unsatisfied with how NOL runs things and started a rebellion on their own rather than being incited by NOL. PunchClockVillain? Well, let's look at how Ragna usually raided NOL branches before CT: Everyone is killed, no exceptions. Even if that person was a defenseless woman, or just a man getting his paycheck, no mercy. Also let's consider who voiced their protests on NOL thus far: mostly Sector Seven, who DID oppose them in a way. Everyone was pretty much fine, if a bit annoyed, with their elitist attitude. As far as hyperbolizing, I do not think that was because of the trolling, but more like overexcited fans who like hyperboles and it seems to be in the blood of Wiki/TVTropes, thereby making ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' fans look... well...foppish?

** The thing is, ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' fandom has a tendency to exaggerate lots of things, NOL's 'Empire'-ness is one of them (last time, Jin's {{Jerkass}}ery was dialled UpToEleven despite some soft spots of his in the past). And it has overarched in Wiki/TVTropes, it was painful to read. I may even make some Analysis that bust out these myths. Playability does not really count. Kokonoe and Jubei enjoy MASSIVE popularity even when they're not playable. I think people try to defend Kokonoe more than, say, Litchi, because at least she's a good guy fighting the villain rather than someone who supports the villain despite not really agreeing to his principals. This 'Empire-ness' of NOL has caused the definition of HeelFaceTurn and FaceHeelTurn to be twisted, especially the latter. Did Litchi REALLY do a FaceHeelTurn solely for joining NOL, even if her principal of saving people hasn't changed? Did Tsubaki sticking with NOL counts as a FaceHeelTurn, despite, you know, being raised from age zero to serve NOL, and some MindRape? They really haven't crossed the MoralEventHorizon or admited that EvilFeelsGood, so why are they {{Heel}}s for being with NOL? This gets so silly that it's as if the motto of ''Franchise/BlazBlue'' alignment is: "Are you with NOL/Hazama/Relius? If yes, then you're a {{Heel}}. Boo!"

** Hmm...come to think of it, was there ever a moment in someone's story where someone reminded them that the NOL, despite Ikaruga and perhaps some too-strict practices, is still keeping the peace? Or that there's a good chance that most of the {{PunchClockVillain}}s out there probably don't know what's really going on? I will agree, there seems to be a lack of a middleground for who're the good and bad guys. And I will admit, playability can't account for everything, given that you're right about Kokonoe and Jubei being popular yet non-playable, but it's still something of a factor. I'm starting to wonder what people's views would have been had most of the cast not been trolled. Would things be less hyperboled? Would things seem less personal?

* My question is, what's the point in playing the game? It just seems to me like a depressing exercise in [[ShoottheShaggyDog hopelessness]], where no one's actions mean anything except for the two main villains, who just keep making things suck more for everyone. Can someone convince me to play this game and have any hope in the story?

** For your beastkin aging question regarding Valkenhayn and Makoto (and I'll thrown in Jubei), you have to remember that there are different kinds of beastkin. Valkenhayn is a lycanthrope created by sorcery, Jubei is a type of cat beastkin that has existed long before the Dark War while Makoto is a half-beastkin, a type that, like the Kaka, was artificially created as an attempt to stop the Black Beast. Valkenhayn and Jubei's type (and by extension his daughter Kokonoe who had to have been born not longer after the Dark War) do have longer lifespans than humans but that doesn't necessarily apply to Makoto. Celica's slow aging is explicitly attributed to her healing magic, which keeps her looking young (only being middle-aged at the oldest) and presumably would give her a longer lifespan than normal (you know, provided Terumi didn't kill her). Additionally, Ragna and Jin are definitely not in their thirties. Terumi attacked the church in 2192, only eight years before the events of Calamity Trigger (while it is technically in 2199, it takes place on December 31). They were kids at the time and Jin went to high school in the meantime, putting Jin likely somewhere around 20-22 and Ragna somewhere like 2-3 years older than that. Ages in BlazBlue are VERY vague in general. The only character with a concrete number is Noel (5 years old). Therefore we don't know how old the Dark War characters are besides 100+. Also, I don't know where you're getting that Saya is still a child. When possessed by Izanami she clearly looks older than she was in flashbacks, physically being not that different from Noel.

* ... So why is everyone still thinking Ragna is out to free the world from the clutches of the oppressive NOL? He's a good guy, but his reasoning of destroying NOL wasn't because "NOL, you dare oppress the innocents! I will protect them!" but "NOL, you pissed me off! Get destroyed!". He's not really a RobinHood-esque guy who fights for the weak, but solely for himself. His claim of trying to take down NOL wasn't born out of the will to protect people, but more of a BadassBoast... closer to ChaoticNeutral than ChaoticGood.

** It's mostly here on Wiki/TVTropes, especially in the earlier stages of CT. A lot of YMMV stuffs put Ragna as a RobinHood-esque hero, ChaoticGood, fight to free the world from NOL oppression...and hell, NOL itself is viewed as a [[Franchise/StarWars Palpatine-level]] [[TheEmpire Empire]] due to its 'oppression' (with or without Ragna). A lot of people never bothered to fix those so it's like [=TVTropes=] accept that Ragna is like RobinHood, not a LighterAndSofter version of [[VideoGame/GodOfWar Kratos]]. Although doing that may risk of putting tons of [[DracoInLeatherPants Leather Pants]] on Hazama/Terumi. Regardless, even if Ragna is brutal, he will always be the {{Face}} and anyone dare oppose him (especially NOL) will be considered {{Heel}}... but is it really true?

*** Most of Kokonoe's advices tend to refer to the character as well, even if they lose the memory from the segment. As in, when advising Valkenhayn, she says "Trust your mistress". She definitely placed you, the player, to the character's shoes, rather than just directing to the player. This will tie in to the birth of Litchi's HateDumb. It IS rational to eventually avoid her slow, inevitable death, but is it rational to betray friends for that? I'd like to know if the haters actually had a point that she was being irrational afterwards.

* Platinum. Why does she exist? For me she fires seventeen alarms of anime cliches(and not in a fun way, like Taokaka, who doesn't sit on the game's plot and manages to be funny sometimes, but Platinum seems to do so, with several hints dropping of her importance), and her bratty side is insanely [[TheScrappy annoying]] to me. What bugs me... is there any chance of her becoming a [[SpotlightStealingSquad day saving]] MarySue Sailor Moon reject? Or am i just being paranoid? Note: it's not because the character is newly introduced.

** I'll expand to 2)'s side. The arcades of [=CS2=] gives insight that Platinum hosts the soul of Trinity which was goaded to a guilt-trip by Terumi about causing Nine's death. With Trinity's appearance, there will be a chance that we'll get deeper to how Nine became Phantom in detail. Likewise, her appearance may be Jubei's plan all along to screw around with Terumi, like telling Bang's Nox. There's a theory that Platinum said that so maybe Bang stands a chance to pluck Litchi out of NOL services and in the end, hinders Terumi's plans with her. Platinum certainly isn't a MarySue, especially since many characters think her bratty side highly annoying as well. To be honest, Platinum looks less Sue than Noel and in no way would steal the spotlight. In other words, I'm sorry my fellow troper, but you seem paranoid. [[HypocriticalHumor Well who am I to say when I was paranoid on Litchi being not good all along and will revel in her antagonist status]].

*** [[CompletelyMissingThePoint They already did!]].

** Being born born in England doesn't mean he had to have British parents. Especially when it's hinted that [[spoiler: all three siblings were artificially created.]]

* How do Drives work? The games treats them in general and specifically considers in Izanami's Arcade mode that they're a power developed from that person's soul, but for several characters (Ragna, Jin, Carl, Nu, Platinum etc.) their Drive is basically the function of their weapon. Does their Drive [[OnlyTheChosenMayWield give them the ability to utilise that weapon]], since Ars Magus is clearly shown as something not just anyone can use? What did Relius' Drive do before he created the Detonator? Litchi's power came from the Boundary, so where does that leave her? [[spoiler: Why do Jin and Hakumen have different Drives? Why do Terumi and Susano'o have different Drives, and why does Hazama have a different Drive before becoming an independent person?]] Naoto and Ragna have pretty different Drives but Rachel and Raquel's are almost identical, so is that a coincidence? Where does this fit into Blazblue's complex SoulAnatomy?

** Contiuum Shift Extend included "Calamity Trigger Reconstructed," which was basically one long version of the True Ending. Ragna and Tao do in fact meet, and Tao does call him "good guy."

* So relationship to the Sankishin and other mythological references have to their namesakes? Do the Japanese scientists find actual Japanese gods in the Boundary? Is there some unstated or unexplored effect that made these beings the subject of ancient humanity's stories? Or did humanity just see three godlike beings in the Boundary, name them after gods? Was the creation of the Black Beast, a multi-headed serpent with a sword inside of it meant to counteract Amaterasu and the Prime Fields, just humanity going super overboard with their naming conventions?

** Apparently the administrators of the wiki hated the localization and went through the trouble of translating the terms themselves [[https://blazblue.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:37009]]. It doesn't make sense to prioritize more faithful translations over the terms players would actually be familiar with, but the downside of online encyclopedias is that contributors can make decisions like that for the users.

* Okay, this has more to do with the wiki and shit, but what the hell is wrong with the Blazblue wiki? Why's Ragna's weapon(Blood-Scythe) now just labeled as a large sword? Why's the Azure Grimoire the "Blue Grimoire"? Why are Nox Nyctores now referred to as "Event Weapons"? I just want to know why it's suddenly like this.

** For your beastkin aging question regarding Valkenhayn and Makoto (and I'll thrown in Jubei), you have to remember that there are different kinds of beastkin. Valkenhayn is a lycanthrope created by sorcery, Jubei is a type of cat beastkin that has existed long before the Dark War while Makoto is a half-beastkin, a type that, like the Kaka, was artificially created as an attempt to stop the Black Beast. Valkenhayn and Jubei's type (and by extension his daughter Kokonoe who had to have been born not longer after the Dark War) do have longer lifespans than humans but that doesn't necessarily apply to Makoto. Celica's slow aging is explicitly attributed to her healing magic, which keeps her looking young (only being middle-aged at the oldest) and presumably would give her a longer lifespan than normal (you know, provided Terumi didn't kill her). Additionally, Ragna and Jin are definitely not in their thirties. Terumi attacked the church in 2192, only eight years before the events of Calamity Trigger (while it is technically in 2199, it takes place on December 31). They were kids at the time and Jin went to high school in the meantime, putting Jin likely somewhere around 20-22 and Ragna somewhere like 2-3 years older than that. Ages in BlazBlue are VERY vague in general. The only character with a concrete number is Noel (5 years old). Therefore we don't know how old the Dark War characters are besides 100+. Also, I don't know where you're getting that Saya is still a child. When possessed by Izanami she clearly looks older than she was in flashbacks, physically being not that different from Noel.

* A lot of characters from the Dark War show up despite the 100 year time gap. Terumi [[spoiler: and Trinity]] are spirits, so it makes sense they don't age, and Hakumen, [[spoiler: Nine and Relius]] all came via the Boundary where time doesn't really flow. But what about the others, who apparently got between time periods [[TheSlowPath by waiting]]? Valkenhayn is clearly old now, but a hundred years plus whatever he was at the time? It's possible beastkin age slower (given that he isn't an 'actual' werewolf), but does that mean Makoto also ages slower? Jubei doesn't even have that excuse - he's just a grizzled adult, even with all this time. Most {{egregious}}ly, [[spoiler: Celica. If Ragna and Jin are, at a guess, in their thirties during the story, that means there were seventy years between the war and her taking them in as children (ignoring that Saya is still a child - that could be to do with Izanami, I don't know). She's evidently a young teen during the war, so when she takes the children in as an adult she's eighty? She looks half that in flashback scenes!]] In short - just how old are the people who took TheSlowPath supposed to be?