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*** ''Film/TheLastJedi'' will eventually use TakeTheThirdOption as it's major theme, be it Light Side, Dark Side, or the middle path (ie. the true balance) are just few of so many options in the Force.
*** Not precisely. The CentralTheme of ''The Last Jedi'' is failure: every character fails to some degree, and Yoda finally drops the final lesson Luke: failure is how we learn and grow. Make a mistake, live with the consquences, but learn ''not to repeat the mistake''. It isn't that "Light and Dark are both equally bad, the middle is right," it's that there's more to The Force ("the Light Side" as it is misnamed) than just what Yoda's order of Jedi believed. Emotions can be twisted to evil ends, that doesn't make ''emotions themselves'' evil as the Jedi believed. Life and death, peace and violence are all part of the Force, but Yoda's Jedi Order came to believe that the light was only peace and life, and Luke in trying to recover the teachings of the Jedi fell into the same dogmatic traps, despite his and Anakin's love being what defeated Palpatine. The point isn't that "Between Light and Dark, TakeAThirdOption is the ''correct'' path," it's that Yoda's Jedi had artificially narrowed their definition of "Light" to the point of uselessness.
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** Connected to this, it becomes very apparent in this movie (and The Clones Wars), that Anakin's demonstrating a toxic attachment to Padme by ''any'' standard, not just arguably-unrealistic Jedi standards. In this movie, his attachment ''to her'' surpasses his love ''for her''. Between his obsession with "protecting" her and Palpatine's manipulations (in the novel it's more explicit that Palpatine is smearing Padme ''and'' Obi-Wan to Anakin, even while dangling a way to save Padme), he becomes increasingly possessive and controlling of her leading up to the Force-Choke, viewing her more as a {{Protectorate}} than an autonomous human he loves. As he escalates into the DarkSide, he increasingly engages in behaviour "for Padme" that Padme herself would be (and is) horrified by and would never want. Even if DeathByChildbirth seemed like a possibility ''to her'', she'd probably prefer that to a bunch of children getting murdered "to save her". But what she actually wants no longer matters to Anakin by that point. It's significant that Palpatine had to get Obi-Wan off-planet to finish corrupting Anakin, while Padme was nearby at home - Padme was no longer someone who had moral sway with Anakin or who he looked to for guidance. He simply expected her to go along with what he wanted.

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** Connected to this, it becomes very apparent in this movie (and The Clones Clone Wars), that Anakin's demonstrating a toxic attachment to Padme by ''any'' standard, not just arguably-unrealistic Jedi standards. In this movie, his attachment ''to her'' surpasses his love ''for her''. Between his obsession with "protecting" her and Palpatine's manipulations (in the novel it's more explicit that Palpatine is smearing Padme ''and'' Obi-Wan to Anakin, even while dangling a way to save Padme), he becomes increasingly possessive and controlling of her leading up to the Force-Choke, viewing her more as a {{Protectorate}} than an autonomous human he loves. As he escalates into the DarkSide, he increasingly engages in behaviour "for Padme" that Padme herself would be (and is) horrified by and would never want. Even if DeathByChildbirth seemed like a possibility ''to her'', she'd probably prefer that to a bunch of children getting murdered "to save her". But what she actually wants no longer matters to Anakin by that point. It's significant that Palpatine had to get Obi-Wan off-planet to finish corrupting Anakin, while Padme was nearby at home - Padme was no longer someone who had moral sway with Anakin or who he looked to for guidance. He simply expected her to go along with what he wanted.
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** Connected to this, it becomes very apparent in this movie (and The Clones Wars), that Anakin's demonstrating a toxic attachment to Padme by ''any'' standard, not just arguably-unrealistic Jedi standards. Between his obsession with "protecting" her and Palpatine's manipulations (in the novel it's more explicit that Palpatine is smearing Padme ''and'' Obi-Wan to Anakin, even while dangling a way to save Padme), he becomes increasingly possessive and controlling of her leading up to the Force-Choke, viewing her more as a {{Protectorate}} than an autonomous human he loves. As he escalates into the DarkSide, he increasingly engages in behaviour "for Padme" that Padme herself would be (and is) horrified by and would never want. Even if DyingInChildbirth seemed like a possibility ''to her'', she'd probably prefer that to a bunch of children getting murdered "to save her". But what she actually wants no longer matters to Anakin by that point. It's significant that Palpatine had to get Obi-Wan off-planet to finish corrupting Anakin, while Padme was nearby at home - Padme was no longer someone who had moral sway with Anakin, he simply expected her to go along with what he wanted.

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** Connected to this, it becomes very apparent in this movie (and The Clones Wars), that Anakin's demonstrating a toxic attachment to Padme by ''any'' standard, not just arguably-unrealistic Jedi standards. In this movie, his attachment ''to her'' surpasses his love ''for her''. Between his obsession with "protecting" her and Palpatine's manipulations (in the novel it's more explicit that Palpatine is smearing Padme ''and'' Obi-Wan to Anakin, even while dangling a way to save Padme), he becomes increasingly possessive and controlling of her leading up to the Force-Choke, viewing her more as a {{Protectorate}} than an autonomous human he loves. As he escalates into the DarkSide, he increasingly engages in behaviour "for Padme" that Padme herself would be (and is) horrified by and would never want. Even if DyingInChildbirth DeathByChildbirth seemed like a possibility ''to her'', she'd probably prefer that to a bunch of children getting murdered "to save her". But what she actually wants no longer matters to Anakin by that point. It's significant that Palpatine had to get Obi-Wan off-planet to finish corrupting Anakin, while Padme was nearby at home - Padme was no longer someone who had moral sway with Anakin, Anakin or who he looked to for guidance. He simply expected her to go along with what he wanted.
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** Connected to this, it becomes very apparent in this movie (and The Clones Wars), that Anakin's demonstrating a toxic attachment to Padme by ''any'' standard, not just arguably-unrealistic Jedi standards. Between his obsession with "protecting" her and Palpatine's manipulations (in the novel it's more explicit that Palpatine is smearing Padme ''and'' Obi-Wan to Anakin, even while dangling a way to save Padme), he becomes increasingly possessive and controlling of her leading up to the Force-Choke, viewing her more as a {{Protectorate}} than an autonomous human he loves. As he escalates into the DarkSide, he increasingly engages in behaviour "for Padme" that Padme herself would be (and is) horrified by and would never want. Even if DyingInChildbirth seemed like a possibility ''to her'', she'd probably prefer that to a bunch of children getting murdered "to save her". But what she actually wants no longer matters to Anakin by that point. It's significant that Palpatine had to get Obi-Wan off-planet to finish corrupting Anakin, while Padme was nearby at home - Padme was no longer someone who had moral sway with Anakin, he simply expected her to go along with what he wanted.
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** Exactly. By forcing Anakin to try and jump over him, Obi-Wan being below him allowed him to go for the legs (and other arm). It wasn't the high ground that was the advantage, it was the low ground.
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* Courtesy of "[[https://youtu.be/kkP6FhF5MRo?si=86QltWOiw2JyNLsc&t=1867 Addie Counts]]": Anakin burning on the shore of the lava river on Mustafar. "It's kind of like. . . that was a Jedi funeral. . . and Anakin died." Yeah, we saw in ''Return of the Jedi'' Luke burning what was left of Vader's body on a pyre, and in ''The Phantom Menace'' saw Qui-Gon's body also being burned. Symbollically, Anakin's burning body is burning away what was left of the good man Anakin Skywalker. From this point, Anakin really is dead, subsumed by Darth Vader. Until, ultimately, Luke is able to do what Anakin wanted but never could: bring someone he loved back to life.
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Calling C-3PO “it”?


* As Padme takes off with C-3PO, the later mentions that it is beginning to get the hang of flying. Once its memory wipe occurs, C-3PO will forget about all of this and will go back to hating space travel. The Threepio from this movie does go away due to said memory wipe, meaning it will also forget all about Senator Amidala whom it served so faithfully.

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* As Padme takes off with C-3PO, the later latter mentions that it he is beginning to get the hang of flying. Once its his memory wipe occurs, C-3PO will forget about all of this and will go back to hating space travel. The Threepio from this movie does go away due to said memory wipe, meaning it he will also forget all about Senator Amidala whom it he served so faithfully.
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* When Obi-Wan and Yoda end up leaving Coruscant towards the end of the movie, they end up leaving for good. Never again would they set foot on the galactic capital that they used to call home.

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* When Obi-Wan and Yoda end up leaving Coruscant towards the end of the movie, they end up leaving for good. Never again would they set foot on the galactic capital that they used to call home.home.
* As Padme takes off with C-3PO, the later mentions that it is beginning to get the hang of flying. Once its memory wipe occurs, C-3PO will forget about all of this and will go back to hating space travel. The Threepio from this movie does go away due to said memory wipe, meaning it will also forget all about Senator Amidala whom it served so faithfully.
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*** The fact Order 66 was public knowledge probably played a role in Windu's decision: he has not only received confirmation that there's a Sith Lord on Coruscant and it's the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he also knows that ''the Sith Lord can order the execution of the entire Jedi Order on a whim and '''had this power for three years'''''. That, and the fact that for some reason he hadn't issued Order 66 yet, clearly played a role in Mace Windu's decision: he was trying to kill Palpatine before he decided to kill them all. If he'd tried to play it legally, he would've been taking the battle to Palpatine's arena (literally and figuratively), while giving Palpatine plenty of time to figure out some other way of destroying the Jedi.

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*** The fact Order 66 was public knowledge probably played a role in Windu's decision: he has not only received confirmation that there's a Sith Lord on Coruscant and it's the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he also knows that ''the Sith Lord can order the execution of the entire Jedi Order on a whim and '''had '''has had this power for three years'''''. That, and the fact that for some reason he hadn't issued Order 66 yet, clearly played a role in Mace Windu's decision: he was trying to kill Palpatine before he decided to kill them all. If he'd tried to play it legally, he would've been taking the battle to Palpatine's arena (literally and figuratively), while giving Palpatine plenty of time to figure out some other way of destroying the Jedi.
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When characters talk about bringing balance to the force, at least during the Lucas era movies, they are explicitly talking about bringing an end to the Sith for good - something Anakin does indeed accomplish, as by killing Palpatine and then passing away himself, he ensures all currently living Sith are eliminated without passing on their knowledge.

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When characters talk about bringing balance to the force, Force, at least during the Lucas era movies, they are explicitly talking about bringing an end to the Sith for good - something Anakin does indeed accomplish, as by killing Palpatine and then passing away himself, he ensures all currently living Sith are eliminated without passing on their knowledge.
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** Also, Anakin only loses once he tries to take the high ground. It could be that Obi-Wan was lying about the high ground being an advantage, since in real swordfighting, it isn't. Think about it: If you're on a slope and your opponent's under you, their legs are inaccessible and yours are close to their blade. Plus, they only have to protect their torso and head since their legs are unreachable.
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dewicking disambiguation page


* I always thought that Grievous' "lightsaber collection" line in Episode 3 was stupid, and also, ironically, not much of a collection, with 1 lightsaber acquired in a deleted scene. However, upon watching ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsCloneWars'' again, I realized that this may be justified. Remember when Mace Windu [[CurbStompBattle effortlessly]] defeats Grievous with a Force crush of some sort? If you look closely, Grievous drops his lightsabers as he clutches his broken chest. Where they went after that may never be explained, but it's the only logical way to HandWave ([[JustForPun like Mace did to Grievous' chest]]) his puny 1 lightsaber "collection". He misplaced his lightsabers due to Jedi scum actually hurting him.

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* I always thought that Grievous' "lightsaber collection" line in Episode 3 was stupid, and also, ironically, not much of a collection, with 1 lightsaber acquired in a deleted scene. However, upon watching ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsCloneWars'' again, I realized that this may be justified. Remember when Mace Windu [[CurbStompBattle effortlessly]] defeats Grievous with a Force crush of some sort? If you look closely, Grievous drops his lightsabers as he clutches his broken chest. Where they went after that may never be explained, but it's the only logical way to HandWave ([[JustForPun like (like Mace did to Grievous' chest]]) chest) his puny 1 lightsaber "collection". He misplaced his lightsabers due to Jedi scum actually hurting him.
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* Why would Palpatine send Anakin to personally kill the Younglings? So he can publicly frame the Jedi for killing them. If it looked like the Younglings were gunned down by clone troopers, the public and the Senate would immediately turn on Palpatine and reject his Empire but if it looks like they were killed by a lightsaber, it would be easy to pin the blame on any adult Jedi that the clones had gunned down. Yet another way to frame the Jedi as cultists who kidnap and indoctrinate children who would rather kill said kids rather than let them be taken care of and protected by the Empire.

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* Why would Palpatine send Anakin to personally kill the Younglings? younglings? So he can publicly frame the Jedi for killing them. If it looked like the Younglings were gunned down by clone troopers, the public and the Senate would immediately turn on Palpatine and reject his Empire but if it looks like they were killed by a lightsaber, it would be easy to pin the blame on any adult Jedi that the clones had gunned down. Yet another way to frame the Jedi as cultists who kidnap and indoctrinate children who would rather kill said kids rather than let them be taken care of and protected by the Empire.
** Additionally, it firmly cements Vader on the Dark Side. Anakin's killing of Mace Windu was impetuous, unmeditated. His killing of the Separatist Council is morally wrong by any standard, but they're people who he's hated for years (in the case of Gunray and Haako, ever since he was a kid) and have been directly or indirectly responsible for millions of deaths, war crimes, etc. Murdering innocent children is utterly, completely, totally, 100% wrong. If Anakin has time to think about what he did, he might well repent. But once he's made the willing, conscious choice to slaughter his comrades, his adoptive family, ''children''...then he's thrown his lot in once and for all on the Dark Side.
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* Why would Palpatine send Anakin to personally kill the Younglings? So he can publicly frame the Jedi for killing them. If it looked like the Younglings were gunned down by clone troopers, the public and the Senate would immediately turn on Palpatine and reject his Empire but if it looks like they were killed by a lightsaber, it would be easy to pin the blame on any adult Jedi that the clones had gunned down. Yet another way to frame the Jedi as cultists who kidnap and indoctrinate children who would rather kill said kids rather than let them be taken care of and protected by the Empire.
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** In case you're wondering; Padmé isn't showing in the first moment she tells Anakin she's pregnant. Now, normally (whether it occurs that way in whatever time Star Wars occurs in is up for debate!) women start showing when they're three months pregnant, at the end of their first trimester. Padmé gives birth prematurely (i.e not yet nine months pregnant). This means it's somewhere around seven months (before month three, but at least one month as it's impossible to detect before four weeks gestation! and before month nine; meaning it's anywhere between seven months (month 1 - 8) or two months (month 2 - 8), before she gives birth). Anakin has his entire life destroyed in less than a year.

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** In case you're wondering; Padmé Padme isn't showing in the first moment she tells Anakin she's pregnant. Now, normally (whether it occurs that way in whatever time Star Wars occurs in is up for debate!) women start showing when they're three months pregnant, at the end of their first trimester. Padmé gives birth prematurely (i.e not yet nine months pregnant). This means it's somewhere around seven months (before month three, but at least one month as We can safely infer she didn't know about it prior to the Outer Rim Sieges, which lasted five months, and it's impossible to detect before four weeks gestation! and before gestation. Given that RotS is heavily implied to take place across merely a matter of days, that means that she likely gave birth a month nine; meaning it's anywhere between seven months (month 1 - 8) or two months (month 2 - 8), before she gives birth). Anakin has his entire life destroyed in less than a year.so early.



** Even the most staunchly rational, atheistic, science-is-the-only-truth doctor will admit that a patient's mental state has a lot more bearing on their recovery than the actual treatment applied. People have survived some truly horrendous amounts of damage by being just too cussed stubborn to die, people have died from relatively innocuous conditions because they just didn't have it in them keep fighting. "Lost the will to live" is a prosaic but accurate way to describe it, and as enumerated, Padm&eacute has plenty of reasons to just not have the strength left to recover from everything that's happened, no matter how much she might want to (and might not even want to).

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** Even the most staunchly rational, atheistic, science-is-the-only-truth doctor will admit that a patient's mental state has a lot more bearing on their recovery than the actual treatment applied. People have survived some truly horrendous amounts of damage by being just too cussed stubborn to die, people have died from relatively innocuous conditions because they just didn't have it in them keep fighting. "Lost the will to live" is a prosaic but accurate way to describe it, and as enumerated, Padm&eacute Padme has plenty of reasons to just not have the strength left to recover from everything that's happened, no matter how much she might want to (and might not even want to).
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* The line "Sith Lords are our specialty" gets a bit of mocking, given that Obi-Wan gets knocked out by Tyranus about five minutes later. That being said, Obi-Wan is personally responsible for killing Darth Maul, crippling Darth Vader, and training the men who killed Darth Tyranus and Darth Sidious (and Luke metaphorically destroyed Darth Vader by bringing back Anakin). Directly or indirectly, Obi-Wan is responsible for every defeat the Sith suffer throughout the entire saga! So really, it's quite fitting.

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* The line "Sith Lords are our specialty" gets a bit of mocking, given that Obi-Wan gets knocked out by Tyranus about five minutes later. That being said, Obi-Wan is personally responsible for killing Darth Maul, Maul (twice!), crippling Darth Vader, and training the men who killed Darth Tyranus and Darth Sidious (and Luke metaphorically destroyed Darth Vader by bringing back Anakin). Directly or indirectly, Obi-Wan is responsible for every defeat the Sith suffer throughout the entire saga! So really, it's quite fitting.
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* The clones end up betraying the Jedi due to Order 66 and are the new enforcers of the Galactic Empire... for only the first few years. As shown in ''Series/ObiWanKenobi'' there are plenty of retired homeless clones drifting about, with nowhere to go and nothing to do. In the end, they ended up being discarded by the New Order just as the Jedi were. Without any Jedi to hunt down, the Empire could simply focus on recruiting cheaper recruits rather than buying the expensive clones.

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* The clones end up betraying the Jedi due to Order 66 and are the new enforcers of the Galactic Empire... for only the first few years. As shown in ''WesternAnimation/StarWarsTheBadBatch'', the Empire starts phasing out the clones in favor of conscripted Stormtroopers, and by ''Series/ObiWanKenobi'' there are plenty of retired homeless clones drifting about, with nowhere to go and nothing to do. In the end, they ended up being discarded by the New Order just as the Jedi were. Without any Jedi to hunt down, the Empire could simply focus on recruiting cheaper recruits rather than buying the expensive clones.
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** The second form of lightsaber combat, Makashi, does include a lot of precise, elegant thrusts. However, given that it was designed for blade-to-blade duelling, it was not much utilized in the last millennium (Dooku being a notable exception). Most Makashi users during the last several centuries were those who studied it along with another style, often Swordmasters who learned all seven (Mace Windu, Cin Drallig, Yoda, Palpatine).
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** Also, Palpatine uses a lot of thrusts. Lightsabers don't really cut through everything they contact effortlessly (see multiple examples in the Cloud City and Death Star II duels), but they do cut extremely well across their entire blade. A thrust is devastating in real sword combat because you can put more power behind it, and focus that power on a very small area (the tip of the sword). But with a lightsaber, a thrust will only damage the tissue the blade actually passes through, and some around that. Compare when Maul stabs Qui-Gon and it takes him several minutes to die, versus Maul dying instantly when Obi-Wan cuts him in half (until his popularity with the fandom brought him back). A thrust is one of the least deadly things you can do with a lightsaber, so Jedi training is probably focused more on cuts and slashes, and thus defending against cuts and slashes. But a thrust can still be deadly, and Palpatine likely knows the Jedi aren't as trained in defending against them as they should be, so uses them to his advantage.
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** It also helps explain why almost no one made the connection: Once Anakin had suffered those wounds and needed that suit, Sidious and Vader had zero reason to reveal Anakin's identity and every reason to conceal it. Palpatine's initial plan was probably to spin Anakin as the one Jedi who wasn't corrupt and evil, which would be difficult (if there was one good Jedi, why not more, and why is that one the one Palpatine ''says'' he is?) Once Darth Vader was locked in that suit, Palpatine could go with the rather easier claim that all the Jedi were corrupt and evil power-mongers, clinging desperately to an inflexible ethos that put them at odds with the rest of the galaxy (the last part of which is entirely true); while claiming the Sith are actually the good guys, the Jedi lied about them being evil servants of darkness because the Jedi feared the Sith rising to power and putting an end to them (the last part of which is ''also'' entirely true).


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** Even the most staunchly rational, atheistic, science-is-the-only-truth doctor will admit that a patient's mental state has a lot more bearing on their recovery than the actual treatment applied. People have survived some truly horrendous amounts of damage by being just too cussed stubborn to die, people have died from relatively innocuous conditions because they just didn't have it in them keep fighting. "Lost the will to live" is a prosaic but accurate way to describe it, and as enumerated, Padm&eacute has plenty of reasons to just not have the strength left to recover from everything that's happened, no matter how much she might want to (and might not even want to).
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** It's a common misconception that 'balance' means balance between light and dark, but (in the Lucas movies, at least) it doesn't. The Dark Side and the Sith are an abberation, an unnatural corruption of the force - as Palpatine himself highlights when telling Anakin the dark side is a path to unnatural abilities. The light side IS balance, with the Jedi striving to balance themselves with the force itself: remaining open to it rather than influencing it with their own will. This is why they are typically slow and ponderous to act - it's NOT their role to be intergalactic peacekeepers or cops, but to allow the force to move through them and do its' bidding. This is also why they fall for Palpatine's manipulations during Attack of the Clones, as at that point they are 'blinded' to the force and cannot discern its' intent, so they are directionless - and when a clone army suddenly appears from nowhere and it's suggested the Jedi lead it, blinded as they are, that seems almost like the will of the force to them.\\

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** It's a common misconception that 'balance' means balance between light and dark, but (in the Lucas movies, at least) it doesn't. The Dark Side and the Sith are an abberation, aberration, an unnatural corruption of the force - as Palpatine himself highlights when telling Anakin the dark side is a path to unnatural abilities. The light side IS balance, with the Jedi striving to balance themselves with the force itself: remaining open to it rather than influencing it with their own will. This is why they are typically slow and ponderous to act - it's NOT their role to be intergalactic peacekeepers or cops, but to allow the force to move through them and do its' bidding. This is also why they fall for Palpatine's manipulations during Attack of the Clones, as at that point they are 'blinded' to the force and cannot discern its' intent, so they are directionless - and when a clone army suddenly appears from nowhere and it's suggested the Jedi lead it, blinded as they are, that seems almost like the will of the force to them.\\



** Additionally, it spits in the face of Obi Wan's previous hypocritical statement "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" - for Anakin to rebutt his statement entirely with an admittedly silly-sounding phrase had to have opened his eyes up somewhat.

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** Additionally, it spits in the face of Obi Wan's previous hypocritical statement "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" - for Anakin to rebutt rebut his statement entirely with an admittedly silly-sounding phrase had to have opened his eyes up somewhat.



*** Except this isn't true at all. Anakin is in this position because he is willing to go through extremes to save his wife. The Jedi continuously failed to sympathize with his way of thinking or help him emotionally deal with his attachments and desires, and instead condemned them. He even sought Yoda, the Grand Master of the entire Jedi Order, and basically received a cold, unsympathetic response. Yes, everyone does die, and it is important to accept death and let go of the fear of death, but saying it in the way Yoda did provided no emotional comfort to a clearly distressed and desperate Anakin. Instead of comforting him, Yoda threw the same "no attachment" teaching Anakin fundamentally and repeatedly rejected. Anakin's conflicted actions when faced with the realization that Palpatine was a Sith Lord would not have happened if Anakin wasn't introspective enough to realize that there were two different paths he could take. He could either kill Palpatine, rid the universe of a dangerous Sith Lord, which would, with the deaths of Count Dooku and General Grevious, effectively end the Clone Wars. However, at the same time, he'd be killing the one person who showed any interest in helping him save Padmé. It was a classic conflict of "uphold his duty as a Jedi" vs "save someone he cared about". It was the very kind of conflict the Jedi's "no-attachment" policy was trying to avoid, but ironically it was that very policy that left Anakin feeling abandoned. Ultimately, it was the very core foundation of the Jedi Order, interpreted by an emotional, afraid, emotionally unstable individual that lead Anakin down the path he chose. Notice how he doesn't deny that Palpatine is evil. He simply says that "From [his] point of view, the Jedi are evil." And from his point of view, he was right: he saw the Jedi Order as being so corrupt and complacent that they were nothing but cold, hypocritical zealots stuck in their old ways.

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*** Except this isn't true at all. Anakin is in this position because he is willing to go through extremes to save his wife. The Jedi continuously failed to sympathize with his way of thinking or help him emotionally deal with his attachments and desires, and instead condemned them. He even sought Yoda, the Grand Master of the entire Jedi Order, and basically received a cold, unsympathetic response. Yes, everyone does die, and it is important to accept death and let go of the fear of death, but saying it in the way Yoda did provided no emotional comfort to a clearly distressed and desperate Anakin. Instead of comforting him, Yoda threw the same "no attachment" teaching Anakin fundamentally and repeatedly rejected. Anakin's conflicted actions when faced with the realization that Palpatine was a Sith Lord would not have happened if Anakin wasn't introspective enough to realize that there were two different paths he could take. He could either kill Palpatine, rid the universe of a dangerous Sith Lord, which would, with the deaths of Count Dooku and General Grevious, Grievous, effectively end the Clone Wars. However, at the same time, he'd be killing the one person who showed any interest in helping him save Padmé. It was a classic conflict of "uphold his duty as a Jedi" vs "save someone he cared about". It was the very kind of conflict the Jedi's "no-attachment" policy was trying to avoid, but ironically it was that very policy that left Anakin feeling abandoned. Ultimately, it was the very core foundation of the Jedi Order, interpreted by an emotional, afraid, emotionally unstable individual that lead Anakin down the path he chose. Notice how he doesn't deny that Palpatine is evil. He simply says that "From [his] point of view, the Jedi are evil." And from his point of view, he was right: he saw the Jedi Order as being so corrupt and complacent that they were nothing but cold, hypocritical zealots stuck in their old ways.



* The Battle of Coruscant is derided by many because of its gratuitious display of ships standing right next to each other and [[SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes shooting at minimum range]]. It's argued that the Star Destroyers have no [[ArbitraryWeaponRange maximum range]]. But they're fighting over Coruscant, a CityPlanet and the capital of the Republic. While the Republic fleet could do battle from afar, they're probably trying to contain the battle over just one sector of the planet so that [[ColonyDrop falling ships and debris]] don't cause even more widespread [[InferredHolocaust damage]] than they already do. It's also worth noting that the Separatist army, especially under Grievous, would jump at the chance to inflict as much collateral damage as possible, to the Republic has to prevent their fleet from spreading out around the planet.

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* The Battle of Coruscant is derided by many because of its gratuitious gratuitous display of ships standing right next to each other and [[SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes shooting at minimum range]]. It's argued that the Star Destroyers have no [[ArbitraryWeaponRange maximum range]]. But they're fighting over Coruscant, a CityPlanet and the capital of the Republic. While the Republic fleet could do battle from afar, they're probably trying to contain the battle over just one sector of the planet so that [[ColonyDrop falling ships and debris]] don't cause even more widespread [[InferredHolocaust damage]] than they already do. It's also worth noting that the Separatist army, especially under Grievous, would jump at the chance to inflict as much collateral damage as possible, to the Republic has to prevent their fleet from spreading out around the planet.



** Alternately, Anakin and Schmi would have inevitably seen ''other slaves'' getting beaten by their masters, and they'd be living in constant fear that either Watto might sell them to those masters if they made a mistake, or that he'd ACTUALLY start beating them.

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** Alternately, Anakin and Schmi Shmi would have inevitably seen ''other slaves'' getting beaten by their masters, and they'd be living in constant fear that either Watto might sell them to those masters if they made a mistake, or that he'd ACTUALLY start beating them.



* Padmé losing the will to live seems contrived until you really take into account everything that has happened. She just lost her husband to the dark side of the Force, she knows that her children will grow up in a world where the forces of evil have triumphed over good, in part because '''''she''''' was the one who originally called for that vote for no confidence in Chancellor Valorum which led to all of this happening in the first plac, and she was likely going to be deemed a traitor to the New Order the moment she appeared to be disloyal. And all of this happened in a matter of days. She is clearly overwhelmed and not without cause.

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* Padmé losing the will to live seems contrived until you really take into account everything that has happened. She just lost her husband to the dark side of the Force, she knows that her children will grow up in a world where the forces of evil have triumphed over good, in part because '''''she''''' was the one who originally called for that vote for no confidence in Chancellor Valorum which led to all of this happening in the first plac, place, and she was likely going to be deemed a traitor to the New Order the moment she appeared to be disloyal. And all of this happened in a matter of days. She is clearly overwhelmed and not without cause.
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* The big cover-up surrounding Padme's death seems implausible at first glance since the ones calling for it (so as to hide the survival of her children) are fugitives. However, it is actually setup to all focus on C-3PO. When Padme leaves Coruscant, she responds to her bodyguard's objections by stating that she has Threepio with her. While Anakin and Obi-Wan were fighting, Threepio put the unconscious Padme back aboard her ship. It is then made very clear that Threepio, not Obi-Wan, ''pilots'' the ship when they leave Mustafar. Since people in the galaxy tend to have a low opinion of droid creativity, it would be easy to fabricate the story that Threepio, unsure of what to do about his injured mistress, who was supposedly otherwise alone, sought out another familiar human authority figure, Bail Organa, for direction. Bail can claim that Padme was [=DOA=] by the time he rendezvoused with Threepio. He then has the protocol droid's memory erased to cover up any record of what really occurred. All that anybody knew was that Padme had died and Prince Bail had recovered her body from her droid-piloted ship. He could then announce her death to the public without drawing any suspicion to himself, while still concealing Obi-Wan, Yoda and the children.

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* The big cover-up surrounding Padme's Padmé's death seems implausible at first glance since the ones calling for it (so as to hide the survival of her children) are fugitives. However, it is actually setup to all focus on C-3PO. When Padme Padmé leaves Coruscant, she responds to her bodyguard's objections by stating that she has Threepio with her. While Anakin and Obi-Wan were fighting, Threepio put the unconscious Padme Padmé back aboard her ship. It is then made very clear that Threepio, not Obi-Wan, ''pilots'' the ship when they leave Mustafar. Since people in the galaxy tend to have a low opinion of droid creativity, it would be easy to fabricate the story that Threepio, unsure of what to do about his injured mistress, who was supposedly otherwise alone, sought out another familiar human authority figure, Bail Organa, for direction. Bail can claim that Padme Padmé was [=DOA=] by the time he rendezvoused with Threepio. He then has the protocol droid's memory erased to cover up any record of what really occurred. All that anybody knew was that Padme Padmé had died and Prince Bail had recovered her body from her droid-piloted ship. He could then announce her death to the public without drawing any suspicion to himself, while still concealing Obi-Wan, Yoda and the children.



** He also no doubt relished killing Poggle the Lesser as revenge for trying to have him and Padme executed.
** A possible interpretation of this is that Anakin was ultimately getting rid of Gunray and his goons for good, not just because his new master ordered him to, but also to prevent them from trying to have another go at Padme in the future.

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** He also no doubt relished killing Poggle the Lesser as revenge for trying to have him and Padme Padmé executed.
** A possible interpretation of this is that Anakin was ultimately getting rid of Gunray and his goons for good, not just because his new master ordered him to, but also to prevent them from trying to have another go at Padme Padmé in the future.



* Anakin and Padme's lovey-dovey dialogue in ''Revenge of the Sith'' is annoyingly sappy, yes. Not a good way to communicate to an audience that your leading couple is in love? Sure. BUT THAT'S THE POINT! Three years of sneaking around and hiding are starting to wear on them. They're beginning to question if their marriage (now further complicated by pregnancy) is worth it. But they're afraid to admit that, so they hide behind cheesy love-talk. This becomes most apparent when the political situation finds its way into their home to drive them even further apart. Just when Anakin starts to get heated, what does Padme do? She changes the discussion and asks him to "hold [her] just like [he] did so long ago on Naboo, when there was no politics, no plotting, no war," ignoring completely that the only reason they were there in the first place was because of politics, plotting, and war! Indeed, viewing their relationship through this lens, we can also realize that the lack of trust is what pushes him over the edge into villainy. Thus, it is not unreasonable to call them a Deconstruction of forbidden romances.

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* Anakin and Padme's Padmé's lovey-dovey dialogue in ''Revenge of the Sith'' is annoyingly sappy, yes. Not a good way to communicate to an audience that your leading couple is in love? Sure. BUT THAT'S THE POINT! Three years of sneaking around and hiding are starting to wear on them. They're beginning to question if their marriage (now further complicated by pregnancy) is worth it. But they're afraid to admit that, so they hide behind cheesy love-talk. This becomes most apparent when the political situation finds its way into their home to drive them even further apart. Just when Anakin starts to get heated, what does Padme Padmé do? She changes the discussion and asks him to "hold [her] just like [he] did so long ago on Naboo, when there was no politics, no plotting, no war," ignoring completely that the only reason they were there in the first place was because of politics, plotting, and war! Indeed, viewing their relationship through this lens, we can also realize that the lack of trust is what pushes him over the edge into villainy. Thus, it is not unreasonable to call them a Deconstruction of forbidden romances.



* I thought Anakin's Force-choking Padme was done perfectly. Everybody knows since Anakin turns to the Dark Side, he'll Force-choke someone for the first time. But who? Obi-Wan? [[TheScrappy Jar Jar]]? Nope, it was Padmé. Anakin's love, and his moral anchor. The only one who was stopping Anakin from completely slipping into darkness. It definitely plays into the perspective that Darth Vader is a damned Anakin Skywalker, and every time we see him choke someone in the Original Trilogy, he's reliving that tragic moment where he lost his love.

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* I thought Anakin's Force-choking Padme Padmé was done perfectly. Everybody knows since Anakin turns to the Dark Side, he'll Force-choke someone for the first time. But who? Obi-Wan? [[TheScrappy Jar Jar]]? Nope, it was Padmé. Anakin's love, and his moral anchor. The only one who was stopping Anakin from completely slipping into darkness. It definitely plays into the perspective that Darth Vader is a damned Anakin Skywalker, and every time we see him choke someone in the Original Trilogy, he's reliving that tragic moment where he lost his love.



** I'd think that right after the capital ship, Jedi Starfighters are also VERY high-priority targets. They had a good shot at Obi-Wan's fighter, and didn't have one at the capital. Remember, there were only two Jedi at the battle, both absolutely critical to rescue Palpatine. Also important is that they aimed for Obi-Wan. He is Anakin's moral compass just as much as Padme. He is also the one person Anakin explicitly trusts without question. Without him, Anakin has zero ties to the Jedi Order, and his expulsion would be only a matter of time. The only one who would teach him after that? [[XanatosSpeedChess Palpatine.]]

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** I'd think that right after the capital ship, Jedi Starfighters are also VERY high-priority targets. They had a good shot at Obi-Wan's fighter, and didn't have one at the capital. Remember, there were only two Jedi at the battle, both absolutely critical to rescue Palpatine. Also important is that they aimed for Obi-Wan. He is Anakin's moral compass just as much as Padme.Padmé. He is also the one person Anakin explicitly trusts without question. Without him, Anakin has zero ties to the Jedi Order, and his expulsion would be only a matter of time. The only one who would teach him after that? [[XanatosSpeedChess Palpatine.]]



* There was something I didn't notice before until I saw Revenge of the Sith again. In a scene in The Phantom Menace, Anakin is whittling a small charm "for luck" and gives it to Padme so that she can remember him by it. I always regarded it to be a throwaway scene, or just to emphasize Anakin's crush on Padme, but it gained new meaning at the end of Revenge of the Sith. During one of the last scenes, the dead body of Padme is seen at a funeral procession and if you look closely at her body, you can see that the same charm worn as a necklace. I then realized that this was purposely done: Padme's last words to Obi-Wan were "There's still good in him". Padme still sees Anakin as the person she once knew, not the one he has become, and she keeps that belief with her ''to her death''. The charm is meant to remember him by. --KH

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* There was something I didn't notice before until I saw Revenge of the Sith again. In a scene in The Phantom Menace, Anakin is whittling a small charm "for luck" and gives it to Padme Padmé so that she can remember him by it. I always regarded it to be a throwaway scene, or just to emphasize Anakin's crush on Padme, Padmé, but it gained new meaning at the end of Revenge of the Sith. During one of the last scenes, the dead body of Padme Padmé is seen at a funeral procession and if you look closely at her body, you can see that the same charm worn as a necklace. I then realized that this was purposely done: Padme's Padmé's last words to Obi-Wan were "There's still good in him". Padme Padmé still sees Anakin as the person she once knew, not the one he has become, and she keeps that belief with her ''to her death''. The charm is meant to remember him by. --KH



* The film casts the VaderBreath in a new light. Not only does the need for a breathing apparatus cause an inconvenience for Vader, it probably reminds him with every breath of his choking of Padme. It is likely that Palpatine designed the machinery to be deliberately incomplete as a means of psychological torture.

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* The film casts the VaderBreath in a new light. Not only does the need for a breathing apparatus cause an inconvenience for Vader, it probably reminds him with every breath of his choking of Padme.Padmé. It is likely that Palpatine designed the machinery to be deliberately incomplete as a means of psychological torture.



** Ironically, Yoda is actually giving Anakin some very sound advice. Death is natural, and fearing it only gives it power over you. It is Anakin's very fear of Padme's death that Palpatine preys on to turn him, if Anakin had been able to let it go, she would have lived. It's not just good advice for Anakin, it's good advice for real life. Life is great, but death is inevitable, learn to accept it and remember those you loved fondly, instead of lamenting their absence.

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** Ironically, Yoda is actually giving Anakin some very sound advice. Death is natural, and fearing it only gives it power over you. It is Anakin's very fear of Padme's Padmé's death that Palpatine preys on to turn him, if Anakin had been able to let it go, she would have lived. It's not just good advice for Anakin, it's good advice for real life. Life is great, but death is inevitable, learn to accept it and remember those you loved fondly, instead of lamenting their absence.



** A bit of Fridge Brilliance after watching the TV show "Avatar: The Last Airbender" and Aang's struggle to "let go" of Katara. If Anakin had known how to take Yoda's advice calmly and rationally, he probably would have let Padme go... to Naboo, where she wanted to have the baby, when she offered to leave early and make the baby's room ready, she could have been well away from the political mess that followed, and had the babies at a proper, modern medical center in a world far enough away from Coruscant that Tatooine was an acceptable side-trip in "Phantom Menace".

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** A bit of Fridge Brilliance after watching the TV show "Avatar: The Last Airbender" and Aang's struggle to "let go" of Katara. If Anakin had known how to take Yoda's advice calmly and rationally, he probably would have let Padme Padmé go... to Naboo, where she wanted to have the baby, when she offered to leave early and make the baby's room ready, she could have been well away from the political mess that followed, and had the babies at a proper, modern medical center in a world far enough away from Coruscant that Tatooine was an acceptable side-trip in "Phantom Menace".



* Padme losing her will to live sounds silly, but everything good in her life is taken away. Not only is Anakin taken to the Dark Side of the Force, [[EtTuBrute but he was led there by Palpatine, a man that she respected from a young age]], who has since undone the principles that the Republic stood for. Principles that she and hundreds of others have sacrificed...and that she's served for most of her life.
** Not only that but it all happened relatively quickly. It's not clear how much time has passed during the course of the story. But once Anakin accepts Palpatine, it more or less snowballs. Most likely Order 66, Palpatine's declaring the Empire's existence and Obi-Wan's revelation took place in the span of a few ''days''. On top of that, Padme has been dealing with the stress of hiding her marriage and pregnancy from everyone, dealing with a crumbling Senate and her husband's slow seduction to the Dark Side...culminating with him ''choking her'' (and laying around on a planet with '''lots of smoke and ash in the air for about ten minutes straight'''). That is a lot of pressure for anybody to deal with, even a mother who has two children depending on her. And then you remember that she almost certainly gave birth prematurely, as noted below. Heck, it would be more surprising if she'd survived all of that!

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* Padme Padmé losing her will to live sounds silly, but everything good in her life is taken away. Not only is Anakin taken to the Dark Side of the Force, [[EtTuBrute but he was led there by Palpatine, a man that she respected from a young age]], who has since undone the principles that the Republic stood for. Principles that she and hundreds of others have sacrificed...and that she's served for most of her life.
** Not only that but it all happened relatively quickly. It's not clear how much time has passed during the course of the story. But once Anakin accepts Palpatine, it more or less snowballs. Most likely Order 66, Palpatine's declaring the Empire's existence and Obi-Wan's revelation took place in the span of a few ''days''. On top of that, Padme Padmé has been dealing with the stress of hiding her marriage and pregnancy from everyone, dealing with a crumbling Senate and her husband's slow seduction to the Dark Side...culminating with him ''choking her'' (and laying around on a planet with '''lots of smoke and ash in the air for about ten minutes straight'''). That is a lot of pressure for anybody to deal with, even a mother who has two children depending on her. And then you remember that she almost certainly gave birth prematurely, as noted below. Heck, it would be more surprising if she'd survived all of that!



*** An argument can be made that the editing of the sequence even supports this interpretation, as Vader takes his first iconic hissing breath as Padme dies.
*** It could also be that Padme can sense Anakin's agony as he's being operated on and that's whats killing her on top of the stress of childbirth. Earlier she was sitting alone in her apartment when suddenly she has the urge to look out the window to the far off Jedi Temple where at the exact moment Anakin is in turmoil deciding what to do about Palpatine: turn him in or betray the Jedi and help him in order save Padme? Padme can feel Anakin's pain as he's grappling with this question and it makes her sad. How can Padme have this strong psychic connection when she's not Force-sensitive? Because she's carrying two Force sensitives in her womb.

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*** An argument can be made that the editing of the sequence even supports this interpretation, as Vader takes his first iconic hissing breath as Padme Padmé dies.
*** It could also be that Padme Padmé can sense Anakin's agony as he's being operated on and that's whats killing her on top of the stress of childbirth. Earlier she was sitting alone in her apartment when suddenly she has the urge to look out the window to the far off Jedi Temple where at the exact moment Anakin is in turmoil deciding what to do about Palpatine: turn him in or betray the Jedi and help him in order save Padme? Padme Padmé? Padmé can feel Anakin's pain as he's grappling with this question and it makes her sad. How can Padme Padmé have this strong psychic connection when she's not Force-sensitive? Because she's carrying two Force sensitives in her womb.



----> '''Padme''': I've lost the will to live.
** In case you're wondering; Padme isn't showing in the first moment she tells Anakin she's pregnant. Now, normally (whether it occurs that way in whatever time Star Wars occurs in is up for debate!) women start showing when they're three months pregnant, at the end of their first trimester. Padme gives birth prematurely (i.e not yet nine months pregnant). This means it's somewhere around seven months (before month three, but at least one month as it's impossible to detect before four weeks gestation! and before month nine; meaning it's anywhere between seven months (month 1 - 8) or two months (month 2 - 8), before she gives birth). Anakin has his entire life destroyed in less than a year.
** I always thought Padme died from a mixture of the heat and the choking.

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----> '''Padme''': '''Padmé''': I've lost the will to live.
** In case you're wondering; Padme Padmé isn't showing in the first moment she tells Anakin she's pregnant. Now, normally (whether it occurs that way in whatever time Star Wars occurs in is up for debate!) women start showing when they're three months pregnant, at the end of their first trimester. Padme Padmé gives birth prematurely (i.e not yet nine months pregnant). This means it's somewhere around seven months (before month three, but at least one month as it's impossible to detect before four weeks gestation! and before month nine; meaning it's anywhere between seven months (month 1 - 8) or two months (month 2 - 8), before she gives birth). Anakin has his entire life destroyed in less than a year.
** I always thought Padme Padmé died from a mixture of the heat and the choking.



*** Except this isn't true at all. Anakin is in this position because he is willing to go through extremes to save his wife. The Jedi continuously failed to sympathize with his way of thinking or help him emotionally deal with his attachments and desires, and instead condemned them. He even sought Yoda, the Grand Master of the entire Jedi Order, and basically received a cold, unsympathetic response. Yes, everyone does die, and it is important to accept death and let go of the fear of death, but saying it in the way Yoda did provided no emotional comfort to a clearly distressed and desperate Anakin. Instead of comforting him, Yoda threw the same "no attachment" teaching Anakin fundamentally and repeatedly rejected. Anakin's conflicted actions when faced with the realization that Palpatine was a Sith Lord would not have happened if Anakin wasn't introspective enough to realize that there were two different paths he could take. He could either kill Palpatine, rid the universe of a dangerous Sith Lord, which would, with the deaths of Count Dooku and General Grevious, effectively end the Clone Wars. However, at the same time, he'd be killing the one person who showed any interest in helping him save Padme. It was a classic conflict of "uphold his duty as a Jedi" vs "save someone he cared about". It was the very kind of conflict the Jedi's "no-attachment" policy was trying to avoid, but ironically it was that very policy that left Anakin feeling abandoned. Ultimately, it was the very core foundation of the Jedi Order, interpreted by an emotional, afraid, emotionally unstable individual that lead Anakin down the path he chose. Notice how he doesn't deny that Palpatine is evil. He simply says that "From [his] point of view, the Jedi are evil." And from his point of view, he was right: he saw the Jedi Order as being so corrupt and complacent that they were nothing but cold, hypocritical zealots stuck in their old ways.
* In ''Film/RogueOne'', we see that Anakin/Vader has since gotten his own castle on Mustafar, where he spends much of his time. Why would he be there, rather than, say, Coruscant? Perhaps this could be punishment by Palpatine or even himself to constantly be reminded about his failures, specifically losing both Padme and his duel with Obi-Wan. Plus, his castle is located on a lava fall, possibly the same fall from his duel. Now, who has the high ground?

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*** Except this isn't true at all. Anakin is in this position because he is willing to go through extremes to save his wife. The Jedi continuously failed to sympathize with his way of thinking or help him emotionally deal with his attachments and desires, and instead condemned them. He even sought Yoda, the Grand Master of the entire Jedi Order, and basically received a cold, unsympathetic response. Yes, everyone does die, and it is important to accept death and let go of the fear of death, but saying it in the way Yoda did provided no emotional comfort to a clearly distressed and desperate Anakin. Instead of comforting him, Yoda threw the same "no attachment" teaching Anakin fundamentally and repeatedly rejected. Anakin's conflicted actions when faced with the realization that Palpatine was a Sith Lord would not have happened if Anakin wasn't introspective enough to realize that there were two different paths he could take. He could either kill Palpatine, rid the universe of a dangerous Sith Lord, which would, with the deaths of Count Dooku and General Grevious, effectively end the Clone Wars. However, at the same time, he'd be killing the one person who showed any interest in helping him save Padme.Padmé. It was a classic conflict of "uphold his duty as a Jedi" vs "save someone he cared about". It was the very kind of conflict the Jedi's "no-attachment" policy was trying to avoid, but ironically it was that very policy that left Anakin feeling abandoned. Ultimately, it was the very core foundation of the Jedi Order, interpreted by an emotional, afraid, emotionally unstable individual that lead Anakin down the path he chose. Notice how he doesn't deny that Palpatine is evil. He simply says that "From [his] point of view, the Jedi are evil." And from his point of view, he was right: he saw the Jedi Order as being so corrupt and complacent that they were nothing but cold, hypocritical zealots stuck in their old ways.
* In ''Film/RogueOne'', we see that Anakin/Vader has since gotten his own castle on Mustafar, where he spends much of his time. Why would he be there, rather than, say, Coruscant? Perhaps this could be punishment by Palpatine or even himself to constantly be reminded about his failures, specifically losing both Padme Padmé and his duel with Obi-Wan. Plus, his castle is located on a lava fall, possibly the same fall from his duel. Now, who has the high ground?



* Mace Windu's death mirrors Palpatine's. Mace Windu is a leader of the Jedi, Palpatine is the leader of the sith. Anakin kills Mace Windu by throwing him off of something while he is attacking someone with force lightning and becomes Darth Vader, then Darth Vader kills Palpatine by throwing him off something while he is attacking someone with force lightning and becomes Anakin Skywalker again. When he kills Mace Windu, it's to protect Padme and when he kills Palpatine it's to protect Luke. Love both corrupts and redeems him.

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* Mace Windu's death mirrors Palpatine's. Mace Windu is a leader of the Jedi, Palpatine is the leader of the sith. Anakin kills Mace Windu by throwing him off of something while he is attacking someone with force lightning and becomes Darth Vader, then Darth Vader kills Palpatine by throwing him off something while he is attacking someone with force lightning and becomes Anakin Skywalker again. When he kills Mace Windu, it's to protect Padme Padmé and when he kills Palpatine it's to protect Luke. Love both corrupts and redeems him.



** Some fans have also wondered why Padme's parents weren't [[RaisedByGrandparents considered as potential caretakers for baby Luke]], but this would have put him at huge risk at being found by his father. Vader might have bad memories of Tatooine and wouldn't have much reason to check in on his stepbrother, but he's got nothing but good memories of his time on Naboo and might have to drop by at some point while serving Palpatine. It's not unreasonable to think he might hear that his former in-laws suddenly have a little boy running around that [[StrongFamilyResemblance looks a lot like him]] and put the pieces together.

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** Some fans have also wondered why Padme's Padmé's parents weren't [[RaisedByGrandparents considered as potential caretakers for baby Luke]], but this would have put him at huge risk at being found by his father. Vader might have bad memories of Tatooine and wouldn't have much reason to check in on his stepbrother, but he's got nothing but good memories of his time on Naboo and might have to drop by at some point while serving Palpatine. It's not unreasonable to think he might hear that his former in-laws suddenly have a little boy running around that [[StrongFamilyResemblance looks a lot like him]] and put the pieces together.



** Similarly, as noted above, the flat delivery of his lines towards Padme shows that he's already starting to fall out of love with her.

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** Similarly, as noted above, the flat delivery of his lines towards Padme Padmé shows that he's already starting to fall out of love with her.



* Obi-Wan stows away on Padme's ship so she'll lead him to Anakin/Vader. Note that he hides in a small, small room with just one seat. Yes, Obi-Wan spent the flight in the bathroom. How did he know he could stay safely hidden? It's obviously the men's room, so Padme doesn't have any reason to look in there.

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* Obi-Wan stows away on Padme's Padmé's ship so she'll lead him to Anakin/Vader. Note that he hides in a small, small room with just one seat. Yes, Obi-Wan spent the flight in the bathroom. How did he know he could stay safely hidden? It's obviously the men's room, so Padme Padmé doesn't have any reason to look in there.



* It is likely that Palpatine planted the visions of Padme dying in Anakin's head when you consider the fact that he had Anakin kill Dooku not long before they started, which was ''immediately'' after he found out she was pregnant. It is not unlikely that Palpatine already knew, and his getting rid of his apprentice (as well as his words to General Grievous, again before the nightmares) shows that he was planning on replacing him with Anakin in the immediate future, and otherwise it would have been too perfectly convenient for him.

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* It is likely that Palpatine planted the visions of Padme Padmé dying in Anakin's head when you consider the fact that he had Anakin kill Dooku not long before they started, which was ''immediately'' after he found out she was pregnant. It is not unlikely that Palpatine already knew, and his getting rid of his apprentice (as well as his words to General Grievous, again before the nightmares) shows that he was planning on replacing him with Anakin in the immediate future, and otherwise it would have been too perfectly convenient for him.



** One of the kids addresses him by name, so he clearly at least knows that one. Also, for further knife-twisting: That's the only time anyone ever addresses him as "Master Skywalker" in the entire trilogy. Worse of all, it's possible that he was going to spare the younglings and have them secretly escape. With the Jedi Order collapsing from Order 66 and any survivors going into exile or hunted down by him, they could have just quietly left the sinking ship and lived normal lives on remote planets with any influence the Jedi Order had over them fading over time, all the while fulfilling his orders under the MetaphoricallyTrue clause. So what happened? Notice that he ignited his lightsaber '''after''' being addressed. His desire to be a Jedi Master in order to save Padme was what started this chain of events in the first place. So being addressed as such during that pivotal moment in context, the kid was essentially unknowingly addressed him '''condescendingly''' which pushed his BerserkButton. The novel adaptation even [[AscendedFridgeHorror made this train of thought canon!!]]

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** One of the kids addresses him by name, so he clearly at least knows that one. Also, for further knife-twisting: That's the only time anyone ever addresses him as "Master Skywalker" in the entire trilogy. Worse of all, it's possible that he was going to spare the younglings and have them secretly escape. With the Jedi Order collapsing from Order 66 and any survivors going into exile or hunted down by him, they could have just quietly left the sinking ship and lived normal lives on remote planets with any influence the Jedi Order had over them fading over time, all the while fulfilling his orders under the MetaphoricallyTrue clause. So what happened? Notice that he ignited his lightsaber '''after''' being addressed. His desire to be a Jedi Master in order to save Padme Padmé was what started this chain of events in the first place. So being addressed as such during that pivotal moment in context, the kid was essentially unknowingly addressed him '''condescendingly''' which pushed his BerserkButton. The novel adaptation even [[AscendedFridgeHorror made this train of thought canon!!]]



* Vader's choking of Padme is basically domestic abuse. Even worse, Padme is ''pregnant'', meaning that it's not just her life being threatened, but two other lives as well. She dies as a result. And this is real; women do get abused, regardless of whether they're pregnant or not. And more often than not, it only makes things worse in the long run.
** The comic makes things even worse: When Anakin stops force choking Padme, he doesn't just let go; he force-throws her against the wall, and she would possibly sustain even greater bodily damage if the movie also did that.

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* Vader's choking of Padme Padmé is basically domestic abuse. Even worse, Padme Padmé is ''pregnant'', meaning that it's not just her life being threatened, but two other lives as well. She dies as a result. And this is real; women do get abused, regardless of whether they're pregnant or not. And more often than not, it only makes things worse in the long run.
** The comic makes things even worse: When Anakin stops force choking Padme, Padmé, he doesn't just let go; he force-throws her against the wall, and she would possibly sustain even greater bodily damage if the movie also did that.



* Padme losing the will to live seems contrived until you really take into account everything that has happened. She just lost her husband to the dark side of the Force, she knows that her children will grow up in a world where the forces of evil have triumphed over good, in part because '''''she''''' was the one who originally called for that vote for no confidence in Chancellor Valorum which led to all of this happening in the first plac, and she was likely going to be deemed a traitor to the New Order the moment she appeared to be disloyal. And all of this happened in a matter of days. She is clearly overwhelmed and not without cause.
* Based on how this movie plays out, it really does seem that Padme's pregnancy is truly what sets everything in motion that will lead to Anakin desperately turning to Palpatine with the hopes that he can save her. While unexpected, Anakin and Padme were both clearly happy about this happening, only for this joy to immediately be taken away once Anakin starts to become unstable and terrified of what could happen. Had they been allowed to be married, Anakin might have been able to turn to Obi-Wan for help but is denied that opportunity. All a sad tragedy in the sense of how much could have been avoided if Anakin simply had people to turn to.
* It's implied (and all but stated outright in ''Legends'') that Obi-Wan knew what was happening with Anakin and Padme but simply chose to be ignorant. However, because Anakin never spoke to him, he never got to find out if Obi-Wan would have sided with him, which he very well could have. Truly tragic that a trust as strong as brotherhood was forsaken by Anakin in a moment of need.
* A major aspect to the novelization, and implied in the movie, is Anakin's belief that everybody should be on the same side: wanting to bring an end to the war. Naturally, Anakin is willing to believe that the Jedi and the leaders of the Republic like Palpatine want this same thing, regardless of the seemingly petty conflicts involved. The sad truth is that many do want this, such as Padme, Obi-Wan and several others, however, there are a corrupt elite that are all to willing to support Palpatine and the war in general because they get to profit off of it. However, the only major political figure Anakin talks to is Palpatine himself, and Anakin can't see that Palpatine as such an individual because of the corrupt friendship that Palpatine convinced him he had. Had Anakin confided in pretty much anyone else to the degree he did with Palpatine, such as Obi-Wan, Yoda or Padme, the entire war could have indeed ended peacefully.

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* Padme Padmé losing the will to live seems contrived until you really take into account everything that has happened. She just lost her husband to the dark side of the Force, she knows that her children will grow up in a world where the forces of evil have triumphed over good, in part because '''''she''''' was the one who originally called for that vote for no confidence in Chancellor Valorum which led to all of this happening in the first plac, and she was likely going to be deemed a traitor to the New Order the moment she appeared to be disloyal. And all of this happened in a matter of days. She is clearly overwhelmed and not without cause.
* Based on how this movie plays out, it really does seem that Padme's Padmé's pregnancy is truly what sets everything in motion that will lead to Anakin desperately turning to Palpatine with the hopes that he can save her. While unexpected, Anakin and Padme Padmé were both clearly happy about this happening, only for this joy to immediately be taken away once Anakin starts to become unstable and terrified of what could happen. Had they been allowed to be married, Anakin might have been able to turn to Obi-Wan for help but is denied that opportunity. All a sad tragedy in the sense of how much could have been avoided if Anakin simply had people to turn to.
* It's implied (and all but stated outright in ''Legends'') that Obi-Wan knew what was happening with Anakin and Padme Padmé but simply chose to be ignorant. However, because Anakin never spoke to him, he never got to find out if Obi-Wan would have sided with him, which he very well could have. Truly tragic that a trust as strong as brotherhood was forsaken by Anakin in a moment of need.
* A major aspect to the novelization, and implied in the movie, is Anakin's belief that everybody should be on the same side: wanting to bring an end to the war. Naturally, Anakin is willing to believe that the Jedi and the leaders of the Republic like Palpatine want this same thing, regardless of the seemingly petty conflicts involved. The sad truth is that many do want this, such as Padme, Padmé, Obi-Wan and several others, however, there are a corrupt elite that are all to willing to support Palpatine and the war in general because they get to profit off of it. However, the only major political figure Anakin talks to is Palpatine himself, and Anakin can't see that Palpatine as such an individual because of the corrupt friendship that Palpatine convinced him he had. Had Anakin confided in pretty much anyone else to the degree he did with Palpatine, such as Obi-Wan, Yoda or Padme, Padmé, the entire war could have indeed ended peacefully.
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trope split


** The entire Jedi Order would have been hunted down anyway because Palpatine enjoyed HundredPercentAdorationRating by the time ''Revenge of the Sith'' happens while the Jedi are squarely into HeroWithBadPublicity territory. Even if the reveal that he was indeed a Sith Lord became public, that wouldn't stop people from distrusting the Jedi and they still would have to face the scandal of allowing this entire war to happen right in their faces, which brings us to the next consequence...

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** The entire Jedi Order would have been hunted down anyway because Palpatine enjoyed HundredPercentAdorationRating UniversallyBelovedLeader status by the time ''Revenge of the Sith'' happens while the Jedi are squarely into HeroWithBadPublicity territory. Even if the reveal that he was indeed a Sith Lord became public, that wouldn't stop people from distrusting the Jedi and they still would have to face the scandal of allowing this entire war to happen right in their faces, which brings us to the next consequence...
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* It is likely that Palpatine planted the visions of Padme dying in Anakin's head when you consider the fact that he had Anakin kill Dooku not long before they started, which was ''immediately'' after he found out she was pregnant. It is not unlikely that Palpatine already knew, and his getting rid of his apprentice shows that he was planning on replacing him with Anakin in the immediate future, and otherwise it would have been too perfectly convenient for him.

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* It is likely that Palpatine planted the visions of Padme dying in Anakin's head when you consider the fact that he had Anakin kill Dooku not long before they started, which was ''immediately'' after he found out she was pregnant. It is not unlikely that Palpatine already knew, and his getting rid of his apprentice (as well as his words to General Grievous, again before the nightmares) shows that he was planning on replacing him with Anakin in the immediate future, and otherwise it would have been too perfectly convenient for him.
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* What did Palpatine and Windu both tell Anakin regarding the execution of an enemy warlord? "He's too dangerous to be kept alive." It shows the Jedi and the Sith are not so different by this point.

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* What did Palpatine and Windu both tell Anakin regarding the execution of an enemy warlord? "He's too dangerous to be kept alive." It shows the Jedi and the Sith are not so different by this point. In the novelization, Anakin thinks this exactly.




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* It is likely that Palpatine planted the visions of Padme dying in Anakin's head when you consider the fact that he had Anakin kill Dooku not long before they started, which was ''immediately'' after he found out she was pregnant. It is not unlikely that Palpatine already knew, and his getting rid of his apprentice shows that he was planning on replacing him with Anakin in the immediate future, and otherwise it would have been too perfectly convenient for him.
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** In the old EU, it was even worse: Order 66 was one of 150 Contingency Orders the Clones had committed to memory, but Order 65, that could be issued by either a majority vote of the Senate or the Security Council (a smaller number of Senators tasked with protecting the security of the Republic), was to ''arrest the Chancellor and authorized lethal force''. Windu ''had'' a legal way to deal with Palpatine then and there, but opted to try and take him in himself and got killed as result.
*** The fact Order 66 was public knowledge probably played a role in Windu's decision: he has not only received confirmation that there's a Sith Lord on Coruscant and it's the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he also knows that ''the Sith Lord can order the execution of the entire Jedi Order on a whim and '''had this power for three years'''''. That, and the fact that for some reason he hadn't issued Order 66 yet, clearly played a role in Mace Windu's decision: he was trying to kill Palpatine before he decided to kill them all.

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** In the old EU, it was even worse: Order 66 was one of 150 Contingency Orders the Clones had committed to memory, but Order 65, that could be issued by either a majority vote of the Senate or the Security Council (a smaller number of Senators tasked with protecting the security of the Republic), was to ''arrest the Chancellor and authorized lethal force''. force''[[note]] That being said, there's pretty much no chance they could've gotten a majority of the Senate to agree, and undoubtedly Palpatine's got enough support in the Security Council to nix that idea[[/note]]. Windu ''had'' a legal way to deal with Palpatine then and there, but opted to try and take him in himself and got killed as result.
result.
*** The fact Order 66 was public knowledge probably played a role in Windu's decision: he has not only received confirmation that there's a Sith Lord on Coruscant and it's the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic, he also knows that ''the Sith Lord can order the execution of the entire Jedi Order on a whim and '''had this power for three years'''''. That, and the fact that for some reason he hadn't issued Order 66 yet, clearly played a role in Mace Windu's decision: he was trying to kill Palpatine before he decided to kill them all. If he'd tried to play it legally, he would've been taking the battle to Palpatine's arena (literally and figuratively), while giving Palpatine plenty of time to figure out some other way of destroying the Jedi.
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* The Battle of Coruscant is derided by many because of its gratuitious display of ships standing right next to each other and [[SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes shooting at minimum range]]. It's argued that the Star Destroyers have no ArbitraryMaximumRange. But they're fighting over Coruscant, a CityPlanet and the capital of the Republic. While the Republic fleet could do battle from afar, they're probably trying to contain the battle over just one sector of the planet so that [[ColonyDrop falling ships and debris]] don't cause even more widespread [[InferredHolocaust damage]] than they already do. It's also worth noting that the Separatist army, especially under Grievous, would jump at the chance to inflict as much collateral damage as possible, to the Republic has to prevent their fleet from spreading out around the planet.

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* The Battle of Coruscant is derided by many because of its gratuitious display of ships standing right next to each other and [[SeeTheWhitesOfTheirEyes shooting at minimum range]]. It's argued that the Star Destroyers have no ArbitraryMaximumRange.[[ArbitraryWeaponRange maximum range]]. But they're fighting over Coruscant, a CityPlanet and the capital of the Republic. While the Republic fleet could do battle from afar, they're probably trying to contain the battle over just one sector of the planet so that [[ColonyDrop falling ships and debris]] don't cause even more widespread [[InferredHolocaust damage]] than they already do. It's also worth noting that the Separatist army, especially under Grievous, would jump at the chance to inflict as much collateral damage as possible, to the Republic has to prevent their fleet from spreading out around the planet.

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