Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
to:
* There are a lot of fans of the game who strongly disagree with Marche's desire to end the fantasy world he and his friends are trapped in, and that makes complete sense. They're playing a video game, a common activity one uses to escape reality, as a character who directly challenges that mindset. Of course they don't like him...he's essentially judging them!
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 15,16 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Then there's the game's alternate ending for completing all the Clan missions. Marche may put his own desires on the backburner, but in this ending sees Marche's efforts rewarded. He is next in line for Cid's position as Head Judge, and it implies he doesn't return to the real world. Considering his experience with Doned, Ivalice CAN give Marche the recognition he desires should the player focus on their clan rather than the story. This ending reflects Marche falling into the trap that is Ivalice like his friends.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Another point with regards to Marche...consider all four kids and their backstories and desires. Of all of them, Marche has the most "experience" with trying to think about what's best for others DESPITE his personal desires. While he could be bitter, he has had to force down his feelings of abandonment because of the sudden move to St. Ivalice and Doned's need for their mother's constant attention. Despite his inner turmoil over that, he has accepted what was best for his family. The game is simply him applying the same mentality to the situation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Added another point and corrected a typo
Added line(s) 8 (click to see context) :
** In addition to them being kids, and driving home the theme of facing reality instead of hiding in fantasy, the kids get a wish that is only in line with what they THINK the solution is. In reality, they all needed the opposite of what Ivalice gave them. Mewt, and by extension his father, needed to learn he couldn't keep clinging to his dead mother instead of wishing for her return, Ritz had to learn to be confident in herself instead of wishing for something different about herself to feel okay with who she was, and Doned had to learn what he truly had instead of what he thought he didn't. Like regular kids, they were thinking in concrete terms of what they thought would fix their problems, not abstract things such as confidence, acceptance, and the like.
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
** See third FridgeHorror below, With things like ChildSoldier, monsters that would give nightmares to RealLife hardened soldiers, matched fights just to survive another day, permanent death for sentient people if Ko'ed in Jagd, and possible [[ShellShockedVeteran PTSD]] you would also simphatize with Marche.
to:
*** There is also one other interpretation for this here, that no Marche DIDN'T get everything because what he wanted most was what Doned had, at least a portion of his mother's attention which was almost entirely spent on Doned due to his health condition. As their mother is not in Ivalice, or at least that neither we nor they are aware of, it would make sense that he's the only one to keep some sense that they can't stay hiding in fantasy since he can only have some of his mother's affection and attention if he goes back home.
** See third FridgeHorror below, With things like ChildSoldier, monsters that would give nightmares to RealLife hardened soldiers, matched fights just to survive another day, permanent death for sentient people if Ko'ed in Jagd, and possible [[ShellShockedVeteran PTSD]] you would alsosimphatize sympathize with Marche.
** See third FridgeHorror below, With things like ChildSoldier, monsters that would give nightmares to RealLife hardened soldiers, matched fights just to survive another day, permanent death for sentient people if Ko'ed in Jagd, and possible [[ShellShockedVeteran PTSD]] you would also
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
** To be fair, preventing people from being killed is their one undeniably good purpose, as pointed out in-game when the Jagds are first discussed (where people actually die specifically because there are no judges). All other real world crimes are apparently fair play though.
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
** To add to that: besides upholding the arbitrary laws during engagements, what exactly do judges even do? They don't seem to help the civilians with any of their problems. Are they so neutral that they'd let somebody get killed without even lifting a finger to help?
to:
** To add to that: besides upholding the arbitrary laws during engagements, what exactly do judges even do? They don't seem to help the civilians with any of their problems. Are they so neutral that they'd let somebody get killed without even lifting a finger to help?help?
**To be fair, preventing people from being killed is their one undeniably good purpose, as pointed out in-game when the Jagds are first discussed (where people actually die specifically because there are no judges). All other real world crimes are apparently fair play though.
**To be fair, preventing people from being killed is their one undeniably good purpose, as pointed out in-game when the Jagds are first discussed (where people actually die specifically because there are no judges). All other real world crimes are apparently fair play though.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* Also, the "Fire! Fire!" mission, involving the player having to stop a group of Bombs from burning down a neighborhood, with the implication that if you fail, the judge watching over the fight won't do a damn thing to stop the arsonists.
to:
* Also, the "Fire! Fire!" mission, involving the player having to stop a group of Bombs from burning down a neighborhood, with the implication that if you fail, the judge watching over the fight won't do a damn thing to stop the arsonists.arsonists.
**To add to that: besides upholding the arbitrary laws during engagements, what exactly do judges even do? They don't seem to help the civilians with any of their problems. Are they so neutral that they'd let somebody get killed without even lifting a finger to help?
**To add to that: besides upholding the arbitrary laws during engagements, what exactly do judges even do? They don't seem to help the civilians with any of their problems. Are they so neutral that they'd let somebody get killed without even lifting a finger to help?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10,11 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** But the book did give Marche what he wanted, even if he didn't really realize it. He got to be the protagonist of something, which considering he thought himself the favorite would be something he wants, for the first time in his life.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Explicitly fake
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real one.
to:
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real existing one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* There's a mission where you have to investigate mysterious stabbings who turns out to be a tonberry. Does that mean that in the real world, there is a serial killer on the loose?...
to:
* There's a mission where you have to investigate mysterious stabbings who turns out to be a tonberry. Does that mean that in the real world, there is a serial killer on the loose?...loose?...
* The scene where the real world transforms into Ivalice includes random bystanders turning into monsters. That's right, the main characters might be better off in this wonderful fantasy world, but there are plenty of other people who now exist to be beaten up over and over until they either die in a Jagd or are captured and sold into slavery. [[FridgeBrilliance It might actually help justify Marche's actions]].
* Also, the "Fire! Fire!" mission, involving the player having to stop a group of Bombs from burning down a neighborhood, with the implication that if you fail, the judge watching over the fight won't do a damn thing to stop the arsonists.
* The scene where the real world transforms into Ivalice includes random bystanders turning into monsters. That's right, the main characters might be better off in this wonderful fantasy world, but there are plenty of other people who now exist to be beaten up over and over until they either die in a Jagd or are captured and sold into slavery. [[FridgeBrilliance It might actually help justify Marche's actions]].
* Also, the "Fire! Fire!" mission, involving the player having to stop a group of Bombs from burning down a neighborhood, with the implication that if you fail, the judge watching over the fight won't do a damn thing to stop the arsonists.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* Opponents KO'ed in Jagd until the end of fight are permanently dead. So, Marche, Ritz, Mewt, and Doned seriously killed people. Considering the age of [[ChildSoldier those kids is 12 or younger]] [[ShellShockedVeteran and if (possibly) they remember]]....
to:
* Opponents KO'ed in Jagd until the end of fight are permanently dead. So, Marche, Ritz, Mewt, and Doned seriously killed people. Considering the age of [[ChildSoldier those kids is 12 or younger]] [[ShellShockedVeteran and if (possibly) they remember]]....remember]]....
* There's a mission where you have to investigate mysterious stabbings who turns out to be a tonberry. Does that mean that in the real world, there is a serial killer on the loose?...
* There's a mission where you have to investigate mysterious stabbings who turns out to be a tonberry. Does that mean that in the real world, there is a serial killer on the loose?...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7,9 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real one.
to:
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real one.one.
* Opponents KO'ed in Jagd until the end of fight are permanently dead. So, Marche, Ritz, Mewt, and Doned seriously killed people. Considering the age of [[ChildSoldier those kids is 12 or younger]] [[ShellShockedVeteran and if (possibly) they remember]]....
* Opponents KO'ed in Jagd until the end of fight are permanently dead. So, Marche, Ritz, Mewt, and Doned seriously killed people. Considering the age of [[ChildSoldier those kids is 12 or younger]] [[ShellShockedVeteran and if (possibly) they remember]]....
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* The whole "Building the world" similar to LegendOfMana is actually a bit of GameplayAndStoryIntegration if you think about it - since technically, Marche and his friends created the world using the grimoire, that's actually Marche imagining where things would be. (Although some like the palace and Ambervale are in pre-determined locations)
to:
* The whole "Building the world" similar to LegendOfMana ''VideoGame/LegendOfMana'' is actually a bit of GameplayAndStoryIntegration if you think about it - since technically, Marche and his friends created the world using the grimoire, that's actually Marche imagining where things would be. (Although some like the palace and Ambervale are in pre-determined locations)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Just because Marche doesn\'t mind Ivalice doesn\'t mean he isn\'t significantly worse off there.
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not much of a Fridge since it\'s directly brought up in the main story. Likewise Marche admits that he likes the new world and exploring it so he doesn\'t consider it his own hell.
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
** Why out of all the kids is Marche the only one who tries to escape Ivalice? Ritz gets her natural red hair, Mewt gets his mother back and his deadbeat father turned around, and of course Doned gets to be healthy. Think about it, what does Marche want? What does he get? That's right, Marche is the only one of the group who doesn't want anything, he gains absolutely NOTHING and loses just about EVERYTHING from being stuck in Ivalice. He has a simple, largely stress free life, then loses that life and goes to a world where he has to fight just to survive day in and day out. For Marche, Ivalice isn't an escape, it's pretty much his own personal hell.
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Why out of all the kids is Marche the only one who tries to escape Ivalice? Ritz gets her natural red hair, Mewt gets his mother back and his deadbeat father turned around, and of course Doned gets to be healthy. Think about it, what does Marche want? What does he get? That's right, Marche is the only one of the group who doesn't want anything, he gains absolutely NOTHING and loses just about EVERYTHING from being stuck in Ivalice. He has a simple, largely stress free life, then loses that life and goes to a world where he has to fight just to survive day in and day out. For Marche, Ivalice isn't an escape, it's pretty much his own personal hell.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* In an early mission, you save a professor from three 'lost ones,' the animated corpses of people that are lost in the snow. Their names? Colin, Lyle, and Guinness, the three bullies from St. Ivalice. You then proceed to kill/exorcise them. Later on, you fight them ''again'', this time as vampires.[[hottip:* : You do see the three bullies at the end of the game, so they were apparently restored when the rest of Ivalice faded away. But there's more fridge horror. Do they ''remember?'']]
to:
* In an early mission, you save a professor from three 'lost ones,' the animated corpses of people that are lost in the snow. Their names? Colin, Lyle, and Guinness, the three bullies from St. Ivalice. You then proceed to kill/exorcise them. Later on, you fight them ''again'', this time as vampires.[[hottip:* : [[note]] You do see the three bullies at the end of the game, so they were apparently restored when the rest of Ivalice faded away. But there's more fridge horror. Do they ''remember?'']]''remember?''[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** What about the ''fans'' who are OK with it and insist that Marche is evil for restoring things to the way they were?
to:
** What about the ''fans'' who are OK with it and insist that Marche is evil for restoring things to the way they were?were?
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real one.
*** Marche had no idea exactly how things worked. He knew some people got carried over but not that everyone else did too. Babus even tells him he has memories and experiences of his whole life. Replaced people or not they're still full people with full histories. Yes he wants to restore the old world, but it's not until the last moments he does so in any way other than completely destroying the current, existing, and very real one.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
to:
** Because Marche didn't place them; Mewt did.
* Some people laugh at Marche, Ritz, and Mewt for having such silly wishes...but consider that they're at least twelve years old. Twelve-year-old kids are of ''course'' going to do stuff like wish for their hair to be naturally red so bullies won't bother them, for their dead mothers to be back in the family again, and for their bullies to meet cold deaths in the snow. Of course they won't think of the consequences of their actions - they're little kids.
** Likewise, Doned's actions are going to make a bit of sense when you consider he wanted to walk and run like other kids...and if you interpret Marche as a VillainProtagonist, he thinks Marche is going to destroy it all for him.
* Some people laugh at Marche, Ritz, and Mewt for having such silly wishes...but consider that they're at least twelve years old. Twelve-year-old kids are of ''course'' going to do stuff like wish for their hair to be naturally red so bullies won't bother them, for their dead mothers to be back in the family again, and for their bullies to meet cold deaths in the snow. Of course they won't think of the consequences of their actions - they're little kids.
** Likewise, Doned's actions are going to make a bit of sense when you consider he wanted to walk and run like other kids...and if you interpret Marche as a VillainProtagonist, he thinks Marche is going to destroy it all for him.
